Refuting My Previous Position on Spirit Baptism Replacing Water Baptism:

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Introduction:

I originally started out believing that Christians should be water-baptized. Then one day, a believer brought up how Spirit baptism replaced water baptism by mentioning Acts 19:1-7. At first glance, it appeared this passage taught Spirit baptism replaces water baptism. I believed this for about a year or so. Then one day, my belief that Spirit baptism replaced water baptism was challenged by another believer. So I began to re-examine what I believed on this matter yet again. In other words, to make a long story short, I discovered that inferences are made off of certain verses when they can equally be in defense of water baptism still being in effect. In short, a believer would need something like the following words to defend their belief that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism:​
“And the apostle Paul said to the believers gathered together. My brothers. We should no longer water baptize. This was the old way that no longer applies to us anymore. Only the apostle John was to water baptize. We cannot baptize in the name of Jesus anymore. The Spirit now baptizes us when we believe on Jesus Christ.” (Imaginary Bible passage).​
Also, a Christian video that was not even focused on water baptism primarily had double confirmed my own conviction on the matter. It was a video on faith. You can check that out here. (Note: Please understand I do not share all views expressed by Alan Ballou in the video; I agree with his teaching on sin and salvation). Anyways, my New Position is my Original Position in regards to water baptism.​
My Previous Position was believing that Spirit Baptism had replaced Water Baptism.​
I now no longer hold to this viewpoint.​
My New Position (Original Position) is that water baptism is required of Christians but it is non-salvific.​
Spirit baptism is what happens when a person receives Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 1:12), they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and they seek forgiveness with Jesus (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13).​

Refuting My Previous Position on Spirit Baptism Replacing Water Baptism:

#1. My Previous Position would use Ephesians 4:5 which says that there is “one baptism.”​
My rebuttal (My New Position): Ephesians 4:5 is in context to behavior and not what God does upon us. Ephesians 4:1-2 says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;”. Ephesians 4:14 says, “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;” We have one faith just as we have on baptism. Both the faith and baptism are things we must employ and not God. Jesus Himself tells us in the great commission that we are to teach all that He commanded Him baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in Matthew 28. This is exactly what the apostles did in that they baptized in that one name that represents all three persons of the Godhead or Trinity (Which was the name of Jesus). At no point did God tell them to stop baptizing in the name of Jesus. This is what we need to see in Scripture if such a thing actually happened.​
#2. My Previous Position would use 1 Corinthians 12:13 as proof. 1 Corinthians 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”​
My rebuttal (My New Position): This is not actually saying Spirit baptism replaces water baptism. This is merely describing what the Spirit does to us when we accept the Lord as our Savior. In the early church, they obeyed the Lord’s instructions on water baptism in the name of Jesus. The apostles would water baptize right away once a person established faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior. When a person was water baptized, the Spirit would come upon them. This is what happened in Acts 19 when Paul was about to water baptize believers in the name of Jesus (See: Acts 19:1-7). As Paul was about to baptize them in water in the name of Jesus, and he laid his hand upon the Ephesian believers to immerse them in water, they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If for some reason Paul was not to water baptize in the name of Jesus in this instance, then why didn’t the Spirit say not to water baptize these Ephesian believers in the name of Jesus? Anyways, the point here is that when a believer was water baptized, they would in most cases be Spirit baptized as a result. Granted, there were exceptions to the rule on this like with Cornelius and his family. But Peter expressed how they also needed to be water baptized, and neither Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit objected to Peter water baptizing them. Neither do we see the apostles gathering together to discuss this issue and explaining how things have changed, either. In Acts 15, we learn that the Gentile believers were not required to keep the Laws of Moses. The point here is that this event recorded in Scripture clearly lets us know that Gentile believers are not obligated to be under the Old Covenant system of law through Moses. Its clear. But saying that water baptism has ended is not clear from Scripture.​
#3. My Previous Position: The prophecy and fulfillment of the new baptism: John the Baptist stated: “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:” (Matthew 3:11). Jesus stated: “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” (Acts of the Apostles 1:5).​
My rebuttal (My New Position): In regards to being baptized into the Spirit with these verses, this is referring a very specific event, which was Pentecost. This event is not repeatable. First, we are not Jewish believers. Second, Jewish believers are not told to go to Jerusalem and wait there today. Foreign Jews are not now expected to repeat this event in Jerusalem with the Spirit translating their languages again. This is a unique event in church history and these verses refer to this unique event and they are not repeatable for us today. It was the birth of the church. Granted, John’s baptism of water does not apply anymore. We are now to be water baptized in the name of Jesus after believing in Christ as our Savior. When this happens genuinely, we will be baptized by the Spirit. This is exactly what we see described to us in the rest of the book of Acts.​
#4. My Previous Position would quote 1 Corinthians 1:17 as proof. 1 Corinthians 1:17 says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”​
My Rebuttal (My New Position): At first glance, this may sound like water baptism has ended by Paul making this statement. However, Paul recounts how he has baptized some in this chapter and he did not mention how baptism was no longer in effect anymore. So this must mean that Paul’s main thrust of being a minister for Jesus Christ is not baptism but it is preaching the gospel. Meaning, Paul is saying, I come not to just baptize alone or as the main thrust of my mission, but it is to preach the gospel. In other words, baptism does not mean anything if there is no preaching of the gospel that should come before it. This is the most logical deduction to conclude based on the context given to us in this chapter.​
#5. My Previous Position would quote Acts of the Apostles 18 that says, “Apollos… knowing only the baptism of John… when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” In short, Aquila and Priscilla (who were taught by Paul) expounded the Word of God more perfectly unto Apollos because he only knew of John’s baptism of water. Apollos needed to learn of Spirit baptism (Which is the true New Covenant way of being baptized).​
My rebuttal (My New Position): Nothing in Acts 18 describes how water baptism in the name of Jesus has ended. John’s water baptism of repentance is what is in view of ending here. To put it to you another way, there is a distinction between John’s water baptism of repentance, vs. water baptism done in the name of Jesus. They are not the same thing. In John’s baptism a person would confess of their sins to God as they were being water baptized. This was called the baptism of repentance. But when a believer is water baptized under the New Covenant, they first are to believe the gospel as found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that basically says that we are to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for our salvation. Then one can be water baptized in the name of Jesus and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is the new way and it was not the way of the Old Covenant with John’s water baptism of repentance. Yes, believers still need to repent, or seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus, but we are to first believe the gospel before being water baptized and this was to be done in the name of Jesus (the name that represents all three persons of the Trinity or Godhead).​
#6. My Previous Position would use Acts 19 as proof. Acts of the Apostles 19 says, “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” In other words, the believers at Ephesus only knew of John’s baptism of water, and they were not aware of the Holy Ghost. So Paul baptized them into the Holy Ghost by laying his hands on them. So they received the baptism of the Spirit.​
My rebuttal (My New Position): This was the passage that initially swayed me to believe that Spirit baptism replaced water baptism. But after re-examining this passage yet again more closely, I noticed that Paul says he baptized. If this was Spirit baptism, then Paul could not have baptized them. So what is going on here is that Paul needed correct these believer’s on John’s water baptism and have them experience the gift of the Holy Spirit. Notice, that Paul says to believe on Jesus in this passage. This is the new way. Believing on Jesus first, and then be water baptized in the name of Jesus. So when Paul is about to submerge these believers in water, the Spirit comes upon them. This shows the validity of what Paul was doing. If for some reason Paul was not acting in the will of God by water baptizing them, then how could the Spirit come upon them? Would not God explain it to them so they are acting in God’s will? At Pentecost, they believed the gospel message and they were to repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Spirit. Acts 2 is clearly talking about water baptism. There is no way around this one. The only excuse is to say that Peter made a mistake while baptizing them. But this was the birth of the church, and why would God have imperfection riddle such a birth? It makes no sense. God would want them to be within His will.​
#7. My Previous Position would use Mark 16:16 as proof. Mark 16:16 says: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”​
My Rebuttal (New Position): This again is not a contradiction with the continuation of water baptism in the name of Jesus. I see this verse as referring to either water baptism or Spirit baptism. Again, with either reading it does not say that water baptism has ended by any means. Spirit baptism compliments water baptism as we see in Acts 2 and with Cornelius and his family. Peter still water baptized Cornelius and his family after they were Spirit baptized. God did not say to Peter…. “No, do not do this, I have already baptized them.” This is what we need to see if Spirit baptism had replaced water baptism in any form.​
#8. My Previous Position would bring forth Hebrews 9:10. Hebrews 9:10 says, “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.“ The word “washings“ is the Greek word “baptismos“ (βαπτισμός) (Check out here for the Strong’s definition). In other words, Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today).​
My Rebuttal (My New Position): I believe the time of reformation was the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. The Old Covenant way had officially ended with Christ’s death upon the cross. So all of the old ritual washings of the Old Covenant system would end that was tied to the Laws of Moses and John’s water baptism of repentance. The New Covenant is not full of tons of different washings or water rituals. There is only one now and not many. This is how I would understand this. If not, then we would have multiple contradictions in Scripture and a hidden narrative that Peter and others were water baptizing by mistake and acting outside of God’s will without the Lord correcting them (When He cleary could have done so).​
 
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bling

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You did a very good job here. You might add the fact in Acts 19.... they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them....
there is a conjunction "and" between the baptism and Paul laying hands on them to receive a miraculous portion of the Spirit (which Paul as an Apostle could do. The conjunction means there were tow different actions and not just a further explanation of the first action.
 
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You did a very good job here. You might add the fact in Acts 19.... they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them....
there is a conjunction "and" between the baptism and Paul laying hands on them to receive a miraculous portion of the Spirit (which Paul as an Apostle could do. The conjunction means there were tow different actions and not just a further explanation of the first action.
Yes. Exactly. Well said. I was thinking it but did not articulate that point well. Thank you.
 
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In regards to Mark 16:16:

#1. Some would take this to mean water baptism to be saved​
(i.e., to enter God’s Kingdom and not be condemned by God).​
#2. Others would take this to mean water baptism to be saved in the sense as Peter talks about it in 1 Peter 3:21​
(which is a non salvific issue).​
#3. Others would take this to mean Spirit baptism to be saved​
(Even though they do not see Spirit baptism replacing water baptism).​
#4. Some would take this to mean Spirit baptism to be saved​
(And they believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism).​
#5. Some would say that both #2 and #3 are equal possibilities (Note: This is the view I hold to).​

So which view do you hold to?
 
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EXerpt: Watchman Nee - A World Under Water
"
So I repeat, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." Do you mean to tell me, you will now exclaim, that you believe in baptismal regeneration? No, indeed I do not! The Lord did not say, "Believe and be baptized and thou shalt be born again"; and since he did not say that, I have no need to believe in that. His words are: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." What therefore I do believe in is baptismal salvation.

So the question naturally arises: What does this statement mean? And what does it mean when Luke tells us that, in response to Peter's exhortation to "save yourselves from this crooked generation," then they that received his word were baptized?

To answer this we must ask ourselves first what we mean by the word "saved." I am afraid we have a very wrong idea of salvation. "
The Bible has homonyms in it. These are words that look and sound the same but they can have different meanings. I believe the word “saved” can have various meanings depending on the context or by looking at the whole counsel of God’s Word (i.e., cross references). What are we being saved from or for? 1 Peter 3:21 provides the clue. Peter says baptism saves us not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e., sin), but it saves us so as to give an answer in having a good conscience before God. Meaning, we will have a good conscience before God if we are saved by God’s grace through faith by believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and by seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). Paul says he comes not to baptize but to preach the gospel in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Generally baptism is done when a believer first gets saved by God’s grace by faith. At least that is what we see numerous times in Scripture in the early church. Anyways, my point here is that if Paul said he did not come to baptize and it was salvific in the sense of entering God’s Kingdom and to avoid hell, then Paul would be contradicting himself in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Preaching the gospel is dealing with salvation. If a person believes the gospel, they are initially saved by means of being with the Lord and avoiding condemnation in the afterlife. But if water baptism was also necessary for escaping the Lake of Fire, then why would Paul say he did not come to do this very important thing that can lead to spiritual life for others? Does he not care to see men brought in to God’s Kingdom?
 
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bling

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The Bible has homonyms in it. These are words that look and sound the same but they can have different meanings. I believe the word “saved” can have various meanings depending on the context or by looking at the whole counsel of God’s Word (i.e., cross references). What are we being saved from or for? 1 Peter 3:21 provides the clue. Peter says baptism saves us not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e., sin), but it saves us so as to give an answer in having a good conscience before God. Meaning, we will have a good conscience before God if we are saved by God’s grace through faith by believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and by seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). Paul says he comes not to baptize but to preach the gospel in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Generally baptism is done when a believer first gets saved by God’s grace by faith. At least that is what we see numerous times in Scripture in the early church. Anyways, my point here is that if Paul said he did not come to baptize and it was salvific in the sense of entering God’s Kingdom and to avoid hell, then Paul would be contradicting himself in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Preaching the gospel is dealing with salvation. If a person believes the gospel, they are initially saved by means of being with the Lord and avoiding condemnation in the afterlife. But if water baptism was also necessary for escaping the Lake of Fire, then why would Paul say he did not come to do this very important thing that can lead to spiritual life for others? Does he not care to see men brought in to God’s Kingdom?
Paul explains 1 Cor. 13: 14 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
People will skip these verses and go only to verse 17, but Paul has already explained why.
Jesus disciples were baptizing more than John's disciples but Jesus did not baptize anyone (so what was Jesus' reason and was it the same as Paul's?). John 1:4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
 
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Dan Perez

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The Bible has homonyms in it. These are words that look and sound the same but they can have different meanings. I believe the word “saved” can have various meanings depending on the context or by looking at the whole counsel of God’s Word (i.e., cross references). What are we being saved from or for? 1 Peter 3:21 provides the clue. Peter says baptism saves us not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e., sin), but it saves us so as to give an answer in having a good conscience before God. Meaning, we will have a good conscience before God if we are saved by God’s grace through faith by believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and by seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). Paul says he comes not to baptize but to preach the gospel in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Generally baptism is done when a believer first gets saved by God’s grace by faith. At least that is what we see numerous times in Scripture in the early church. Anyways, my point here is that if Paul said he did not come to baptize and it was salvific in the sense of entering God’s Kingdom and to avoid hell, then Paul would be contradicting himself in 1 Corinthians 1:17. Preaching the gospel is dealing with salvation. If a person believes the gospel, they are initially saved by means of being with the Lord and avoiding condemnation in the afterlife. But if water baptism was also necessary for escaping the Lake of Fire, then why would Paul say he did not come to do this very important thing that can lead to spiritual life for others? Does he not care to see men brought in to God’s Kingdom?
And here is what I see in Mark 16:16 .

#1 HE THAT / HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SIGNULAR

#2 BELIEVETH / PISTEUO is in the AORIST TENSE , means Past tense , ACTIVE VOICE , a PARTICIPLE , in the SINGULAR .

#3 IS BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO , is also in the PASSED TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SIGNULAR

#4 SHALL BE SAVED / SOZO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD and that means , that words SHALL BE SAVED has YET to HAPPENNNNNNNNNNNNN.

#5 HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT / APISTEO , is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , PARTICIPLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , SINGULAR

#6 SHALL BE DAMNED / KATAKRINO , is also in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and this PASSIVE VOICE , means it is God that will DAMN those that will not be BAPTIZED , so it seems that many can LOOSE their SALVATION .

Pleas notice the Greek FUTURE TENSE .

And as too , 1 Peter 3:21 anyone that checks the Greek word BAPTIZED will see it is NORRRRRRRRRRRRRR the Greek word BAPTIZED , but is the GREEK WORD BAPTISMA, and THIS Greek word is used 22 times from Matt--1 Peter 3:21 ,

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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Paul explains 1 Cor. 13: 14 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
People will skip these verses and go only to verse 17, but Paul has already explained why.
Jesus disciples were baptizing more than John's disciples but Jesus did not baptize anyone (so what was Jesus' reason and was it the same as Paul's?). John 1:4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
If anyone believes in water Baptism , I also believe there was water BAPTISM , BUT here is what many to not understand ?

If you see the Greek word BAPTISM , does it always MEAN , WATER ?

If it does is there someone that can explain 1 Cor 10:2 ?

It reads , And all were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA ?

#! Anyone please say how the ( ABOUT THE THOUSANDS THAT CROSSED THE SEA ) were water baptized unto to Moses ??

#2 How were water Baptized in the CLOUD ?

#3 And BAPTIZED unto the SEA ?

#4 What the CLOUD signify ?

#5 What does the SEA , signify >

#6 In 1 Cor 15:29 ,and if you believe in WATER BAPTISM , How were they BAPTIZED fo the DEAD ?

dan p
 
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bling

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If anyone believes in water Baptism , I also believe there was water BAPTISM , BUT here is what many to not understand ?

If you see the Greek word BAPTISM , does it always MEAN , WATER ?

If it does is there someone that can explain 1 Cor 10:2 ?

It reads , And all were BAPTIZED unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA ?

#! Anyone please say how the ( ABOUT THE THOUSANDS THAT CROSSED THE SEA ) were water baptized unto to Moses ??

#2 How were water Baptized in the CLOUD ?

#3 And BAPTIZED unto the SEA ?

#4 What the CLOUD signify ?

#5 What does the SEA , signify >

#6 In 1 Cor 15:29 ,and if you believe in WATER BAPTISM , How were they BAPTIZED fo the DEAD ?

dan p
No one is claiming “baptism” means water. It is an action, which can show a commitment or can show a huge overwhelming even that happens to a person, yet it is a type of burial going under or through something. Noah was surrounded and went under a huge down pouring of water, the Children went through water on both sides of them and under this huge cloud (of water). Baptism can be going through severe persecution even unto death (a baptism of fire) and baptism of the holy Spirit is overwhelming the person with the Spirit.

Baptism of the dead is not explained in scripture, but it could mean you where baptized as a result of knowing what a martyr went through for the cause.
 
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Der Alte

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No one is claiming “baptism” means water. It is an action, which can show a commitment or can show a huge overwhelming even that happens to a person, yet it is a type of burial going under or through something. Noah was surrounded and went under a huge down pouring of water, the Children went through water on both sides of them and under this huge cloud (of water). Baptism can be going through severe persecution even unto death (a baptism of fire) and baptism of the holy Spirit is overwhelming the person with the Spirit.
Baptism of the dead is not explained in scripture, but it could mean you where baptized as a result of knowing what a martyr went through for the cause.
The LDS church practices baptism for the dead. They believe that if/when they are baptized for the dead who were not baptized while alive will be saved.
 
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Paul explains 1 Cor. 13: 14 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
People will skip these verses and go only to verse 17, but Paul has already explained why.
Jesus disciples were baptizing more than John's disciples but Jesus did not baptize anyone (so what was Jesus' reason and was it the same as Paul's?). John 1:4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
First, you are making assumptions. Just because Jesus did not baptize did not mean that His disciples were not supposed to be baptized. Also, to not accept John's baptism when it was in effect before the cross was in essence to reject the counsel of God.

Luke 7:29-30
29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."

Second, Paul did baptize others according to 1 Corinthians 1. So if water baptism was no longer required then he would not have baptized anyone. But some in the crowd today say water baptism is unnecessary. Yet, Paul did water baptize others. We even see Paul water-baptize in Acts 16:31-33 involving the jailor and his household. So the point Paul must be making in 1 Corinthians 1:17 is that the Corinthian believers were making an overemphasis on water-baptism that was not how God intended it. Believers must first believe the gospel to be initially saved and or believe on Jesus as their Savior, and then they are to water-baptize afterward. That's the pattern we see in Scripture.
 
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" So the question naturally arises: What does this statement mean? And what does it mean when Luke tells us that, in response to Peter's exhortation to "save yourselves from this crooked generation," then they that received his word were baptized?

To answer this we must ask ourselves first what we mean by the word "saved." I am afraid we have a very wrong idea of salvation. "
Saved means to rescue. But saved from what is the answer. A person can be saved from getting a failing grade by studying. A person can save themselves from having to go through long lines at TSA if they sign up with Pre-Check. A person can save themselves from gaining weight by eating right and exercising. A person can save (rescue) themselves from a sinful generation as mentioned in Acts 2. Meaning, that they do not have to be like this sinful generation and sin like them daily and be a slave to their sin. They can be set free by Jesus Christ. A person can be saved from hell and be able to enter the Kingdom if they accept Jesus as their Savior and they remain faithful to Him.
 
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And here is what I see in Mark 16:16 .

#1 HE THAT / HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SIGNULAR
Uh, yeah. Unless you are a Greek expert and you know how to speak, write, and read Greek with the locals, I am not going to give your Greek the time of day. Sorry. That would be like trying to go to Ethiopia to learn Chinese by using an Ethiopian-to-Chinese dictionary. It's not gonna happen. Take your Greek and double-check it with a top Greek grammarian and then get back to me and tell me what they say.


#2 BELIEVETH / PISTEUO is in the AORIST TENSE , means Past tense , ACTIVE VOICE , a PARTICIPLE , in the SINGULAR .
Just read the Bible plainly like a child. There is no need to complicate the Bible. The Bible is not something that needs to be decoded or deciphered. Not all Greek manuscripts say the same thing, and not all Lexicons are the same, either.


#3 IS BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO , is also in the PASSED TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SIGNULAR

#4 SHALL BE SAVED / SOZO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD and that means , that words SHALL BE SAVED has YET to HAPPENNNNNNNNNNNNN.

#5 HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT / APISTEO , is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , PARTICIPLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , SINGULAR

#6 SHALL BE DAMNED / KATAKRINO , is also in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and this PASSIVE VOICE , means it is God that will DAMN those that will not be BAPTIZED , so it seems that many can LOOSE their SALVATION .

Pleas notice the Greek FUTURE TENSE .

And as too , 1 Peter 3:21 anyone that checks the Greek word BAPTIZED will see it is NORRRRRRRRRRRRRR the Greek word BAPTIZED , but is the GREEK WORD BAPTISMA, and THIS Greek word is used 22 times from Matt--1 Peter 3:21 ,

dan p
If you can simply explain it to me in what the English says in the King James Bible, that would be better. If not, you're not going to get anywhere with me. I believe the English and the original languages say the same thing because that is what the translators have done. To claim one knows more than the 47 translators of the Bible is pretty high and mighty. They knew Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and even more. They were master scholars and they certain knew more than the average joe today who simply has a Lexicon and who toys with a language that they do not intimately know like the back of their hand.
 
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bling

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The LDS church practices baptism for the dead. They believe that if/when they are baptized for the dead who were not baptized while alive will be saved.
Yes, I am aware of their explanation and see lots of problems with it.
 
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bling

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First, you are making assumptions. Just because Jesus did not baptize did not mean that His disciples were not supposed to be baptized. Also, to not accept John's baptism when it was in effect before the cross was in essence to reject the counsel of God.
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I was not suggesting Jesus’ disciples did anything wrong in baptizing while Jesus did not baptize. These disciples were not doing Christian baptism, but the baptism of John which everyone was needing to accept at the time, Jesus was an example of this.
Luke 7:29-30
29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."

Second, Paul did baptize others according to 1 Corinthians 1. So if water baptism was no longer required then he would not have baptized anyone. But some in the crowd today say water baptism is unnecessary. Yet, Paul did water baptize others. We even see Paul water-baptize in Acts 16:31-33 involving the jailor and his household. So the point Paul must be making in 1 Corinthians 1:17 is that the Corinthian believers were making an overemphasis on water-baptism that was not how God intended it. Believers must first believe the gospel to be initially saved and or believe on Jesus as their Savior, and then they are to water-baptize afterward. That's the pattern we see in Scripture.
I often point that out to people who do not believe you should adult believer immerse converts and so far, no one can explain why Paul did it.
 
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I was not suggesting Jesus’ disciples did anything wrong in baptizing while Jesus did not baptize. These disciples were not doing Christian baptism, but the baptism of John which everyone was needing to accept at the time, Jesus was an example of this.
Again, the point was that they would be outside of God’s will if they were not baptized by John’s water baptism before the cross. I believe the reason Jesus did not baptize was because He was to baptize in the Spirit after the cross. John’s water baptism would be unique to him and it would change with Christian water baptism done in the name of Jesus (Along with one being baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus).

I often point that out to people who do not believe you should adult believer immerse converts and so far, no one can explain why Paul did it.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. But Paul merely water baptized and he never said to have discontinued the practice. Water baptism is understood by Scripture of being immersed in a body of water. We do not see Philip just taking some water in his hands and sprinkling it upon the Ethiopian eunuch. So being immersed in a body of water is the ideal form of baptism.

In short, we would need a verse or passage that says,

“And Paul said to the church at Corinthian at Jason’s house, my brethren, there is confusion on whether we should be water baptized or not. To clear up the matter, I declare to you that water baptism is no longer necessary. We may have done it in the past, but we were acting by looking through a glass darkly. It was not as if God was condemning us for acting imperfectly by water baptizing those we did, but God needed to reveal to us in the correct time that water baptism is to be done no more.“​
(Unknown Imaginary Bible Passage)​

This is what we would need to see in Scripture, along with other witnesses to show that water baptism is no more. Yet, others have already declared that it has ended without this kind of clear instruction. They are making assumptions with no real clear evidence.
 
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bling

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Again, the point was that they would be outside of God’s will if they were not baptized by John’s water baptism before the cross. I believe the reason Jesus did not baptize was because He was to baptize in the Spirit after the cross. John’s water baptism would be unique to him and it would change with Christian water baptism done in the name of Jesus (Along with one being baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus).
If you were living during the time of Christ and Christ had physically and personally baptized you with John's baptism, while others around you were just baptized by one of the many disciples, might you feel a little special?
 
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If you were living during the time of Christ and Christ had physically and personally baptized you with John's baptism, while others around you were just baptized by one of the many disciples, might you feel a little special?
I imagine. But the Scriptures say we are baptized of Christ by the Spirit. A changed life is proof of this fact. One could also feel high and mighty by such a thing, as well. But we are told by our Lord that the greatest among us serves others.
 
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I imagine. But the Scriptures say we are baptized of Christ by the Spirit. A changed life is proof of this fact. One could also feel high and mighty by such a thing, as well. But we are told by our Lord that the greatest among us serves others.
We take on a new life in Christ.
Baptism is a humbling activity the lowliest person on earth can go through.
 
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