Reform groups challenge U.S. bishops to create 'a church for our daughters'

[Godlovesmetwo]

 

[pdudgeon]

But I wonder about male catholic priests who wish to become Bishops. Are they approached to do the job or do they apply for the it?

it comes from the top down, not the bottom up.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

it comes from the top down, not the bottom up.

That's a good point.
So ambition in the Church doesn't exist nor is it encouraged.

 

[pdudgeon]

women are still recognized for their sainthood though,
so in the end i think you might be able to consider that a promotion justly earned.

 

[pdudgeon]

That's a good point.
So ambition in the Church doesn't exist nor is it encouraged.

not now it isn't.
(not to say that it wasn't in days gone by!
with some disasterous effects, i might add)

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Cardinal Pell comes to mind.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The idea of "ambition" versus "calling" intrigues me. Before anyone thinks of becoming a priest /minister/ pastor, there must be a lot of internal struggle. "Why do I want to become a priest? Is it an illusion? Do I like the status? Do I really want to do God's work? Am I up to the task? Is God really calling me to do this?"

 

[Fish and Bread]

not possible

Yes it is.

Peter was a man.

And...?

Had Jesus wanted to create female apostles He could have easily done so.
there were women who also followed His ministry from the beginning,
yet He chose men for the job.
and when there was a vacant position in the ministry, the apostles chose a man.

Jesus' incorporation of women into his ministry as full disciples was revolutionary compared to other then-contemporary Jewish religious movements. He made radical efforts at inclusion of women that went right up to the line of where he could go without turning his whole story into a doomed 33AD era Israeli feminism project, and I think the only reason he didn't cross that line is because he was here to do other things and he couldn't not let those things happen because of a doomed attempt to force gender equality on people who weren't ready.

*However* we are ready now. Jesus pointed the way by including women more fully than his contemporaries. In fact, he made sure that women were the first to hear the Gospel- the Good News of his Resurrection, and proclaim it, and yet Rome is not allowing them to read that same Gospel in church on Sunday! It's time for his followers to follow in the direction he's pointing rather than looking to his then-radical reforms and using them as an excuse to rigidly refuse to change even as fresh air carries us further towards the bright light and the kingdom of heaven when women and men are equally children of God and where discrimination in even the priesthood is no longer with us.

Jesus faced stiff resistance from the scribes and pharisees of his day, as we today do from their equivalents in our day. He rejected their literalism and close-mindedness. He included those they excluded.

It's past time that we include women in all orders of ministry.

obviously other churches have made different decisions, and that's fine for them. But it wouldn't be fine for the Catholic Church.

It actually should be kind of embarrassing that the Roman Catholic Church is one of the last churches to make this decision. We should be leading the way. Better late than never, though.

 

[Paidiske]

For me, Paul, it came from a different direction. The sense of call was absolutely brick-to-the-head clear, but I wasn't at all sure it was to priesthood. I think, if distinctive deacons functioned a little differently, I could have found my sense of vocation fulfilled quite happily as a distinctive deacon. As it is, I sort of had to be talked into priesthood, convinced that that was where my gifts and talents would be best put to use.

And yes, I needed a lot of equipping and strengthening first!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

What do you expect the women who are ordained to do, if the church later decides to change its mind?

You don't expect me to have thought through that far in the process, do you?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

As it is, I sort of had to be talked into priesthood, convinced that that was where my gifts and talents would be best put to use.

Top down approach for you too then Paid?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I wonder if some prospective priests dream about wearing the uniforms?
The cape! Raising the hands! The Advent costume is my favourite!

 

[Paidiske]

You don't expect me to have through that far in the process, do you?

You know, it was the Presbyterians I had in mind. In Australia they went back on the ordination of women, and although they aren't ordaining any more they kind of have some elders who are women in a very awkward fuzzy position. I don't think that's healthy for anyone...

Top down approach for you too then Paid?

Maybe? The way we do it, we have a "year of discernment" before we formally apply for ordination. And that's meant to be a time of exploring and learning (about the church as well as yourself) and working out where your vocation can be really lived out. It was during that time that I realised that although, in many ways, it's the diaconal side that resonates most strongly with me, being a deacon would have been an exercise in frustration. (And, let's be practical here, very few distinctive deacons get paid roles; and that might be fine when you come to it in retirement but it's not really workable when you're applying in your twenties).

Your last post makes me smile at the memory of one of my lecturers who was a bit fed up with us once and said some of us needed to spend less time designing our ordination chasubles and more time focussing on our studies.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But this thread isn't about those two women. It's about why someone like Fantine who would make a wonderful priest or deacon isn't allowed to pursue her vocation if she feels she has one. Also, this thread isn't about Fantine in particular either.

I'd hate to think I was stopping Fantine from achieving her dream. Go Fantine!

 

[tadoflamb]

I'd hate to think I was stopping Fantine from achieving her dream. Go Fantine!

What about me? I want to be a priest.

Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

What about me? I want to be a priest.

Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

I've seen how hard these guys work. No thanks. Births, deaths, marriages, Reconciliation, masses, masses and more masses. And so on. Eight days a week, 25 hours a day.

 

[Paidiske]

Careful, Paul, that's what I used to say!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Maybe? The way we do it, we have a "year of discernment"

Sounds great. I want to do a year of discernment. Not becoming a priest . Just discernment.

 

[tadoflamb]

Births, marriages, deaths

Hatch, match and dispatch.

 

[tadoflamb]

I've seen how hard these guys work. No thanks. Births, deaths, marriages, Reconciliation, masses, masses and more masses. And so on. Eight days a week, 25 hours a day.

I would love to say mass. After that, I would love to hear confessions.

There was a survey done recently, it said priests and artists are the happiest with their jobs.