Question for those opposed to same sex marriage

[quatona]

We don't have civil marriages in Lebanon

Which demonstrates that it doesn´t take gay marriage for there to be different meanings of marriage.

 

[AllForJesus]

Which demonstrates that it doesn´t take gay marriage for there to be different meanings of marriage.

Because here each Religion defines marriage as it wants

Okay then i do agree we don't even have a common value for that!

 

[AllForJesus]

makes me wonder of we don't have a common value, does it mean it has no value? and which if it had...

 

[quatona]

makes me wonder of we don't have a common value, does it mean it has no value?

I hear this conclusion a lot, and I don´t understand how this follows.
To me it sounds a bit like "People drive different cars so that means there is no car."
Or "People hold many different opinions so that means there is no opinion."

 

[Keres]

If two homosexuals getting married would weaken your own marriage, the problem isn't them.

 

[LightHorseman]

If two homosexuals getting married would weaken your own marriage, the problem isn't them.

Honestly, that is rather my thought on the subject, but I would like to offer the "con" side of the discussion a chance to clamly explain why you and I are wrong.

The fact that we havn't been inundated with people rushing to explain the precise negative effects of same sex marriage on anyone else's marriage, however, I find telling.

 

[Ellinas]

<staff edit>

A child is not capable of consent.

Define "Child" and where do you draw the line?

What is the difference between sex and rape?

One little word, consent.

If a child is not capable of consent Then who gave the consent for the child to be adopted by a gay couple? His parents? the Orphanage? No one has the right to make such decisions for the child. This is called child abuse. Where do you draw the line on consent? By age? height? What?

<staff edit>

 

[LightHorseman]

Age. 18, in most jurisdictions, is the point at which a child is considered an adult for all practical purposes.

 

[Ellinas]

Age. 18, in most jurisdictions, is the point at which a child is considered an adult for all practical purposes.

The USA had soldiers in Vietnam who were 17 years old! The Brits have 17 year olds in Afghanistan if I am not wrong!

 

[LightHorseman]

The USA had soldiers in Vietnam who were 17 years old! The Brits have 17 year olds in Afghanistan if I am not wrong!

I said most jurisdictions, and I'll add, for most purposes. Some places people are considered capable of giving consent in some subjects much sooner.

 

[AllForJesus]

I hear this conclusion a lot, and I don´t understand how this follows.
To me it sounds a bit like "People drive different cars so that means there is no car."
Or "People hold many different opinions so that means there is no opinion."

But finally there is one common definition to car! and Finally there is one True opinion

 

[Wayte]

But finally there is one common definition to car! and Finally there is one True opinion

Why the need for absolutes though? Life is an abstract thing; there are millions of shades of grey. So how can one possibly look at things as "this one way is right, and the rest are wrong?"

Sorry if I took that out of context, I hit the last page, saw this, and had that thought. I'll take no insult if it's ignored for the sake of avoiding a derail

 

[quatona]

But finally there is one common definition to car!

It´s a common misconception that there definition define objects. They merely define words.
We may work from a common definition of the word "value" (just like we may work form a common definition of the word "car") but still value different things (just like we drive different cars).

and Finally there is one True opinion

Would that be yours?

 

[BigBadWlf]

It will not have an effect on anyone else's relationship but rather an impact on society as a whole.

By condoning and normalizing abnormal behaviors the society begins losing cohesiveness and a sense of common morality and culture; the society thus begins losing its collective identity.

A society who has lost its collective identity is a society poised to go the way of Carthage, Rome & the Islamic Caliphate.

If you would like me to elaborate. please say.

This sort of slippery slope has been applied to just about every social progress in the last few centuries.

Apply what you are saying to such things as the emancipation of slaves
Woman’s suffrage
Application of child labor laws
Repeal of Jim Crow
Civil rights
Religious freedom
Representative government

Each was considered “abnormal” and highly dangerous to society by those trying to oppose them

 

[DaisyDay]

The USA had soldiers in Vietnam who were 17 years old!

Yes, but their parents had to consent unless they were legally emancipated.

The Brits have 17 year olds in Afghanistan if I am not wrong!

I don't know British law, whether their parents also have to sign off on it.

 

[AllForJesus]

It´s a common misconception that there definition define objects. They merely define words.
We may work from a common definition of the word "value" (just like we may work form a common definition of the word "car") but still value different things (just like we drive different cars).

Would that be yours?

It wouldn't be mine, that would be like i am very stupid to want everyone to believe my beliefs. But in my current capacities i try to choose what i think is closer to the the Truth

 

[quatona]

It wouldn't be mine, that would be like i am very stupid to want everyone to believe my beliefs. But in my current capacities i try to choose what i think is closer to the the Truth

Feel free to establish that there is such a "Truth", and then we can get talking about how to approach it.

 

[BigBadWlf]

It seems that gay marriage proponents who wish to adopt a child, don't give a damn about the psychology of the child. So long as they get to make their statement public.

Yet decades of research has shown that the children of gays and lesbians are happy, healthy and well adjusted and are indistinguishable form their heterosexually raised peers and remain so into adulthood

They want to get married then they can have a civil wedding. As for children? Well this is where the line should be drawn.

Any reason other than your own personal prejudice?

Do gay marriage proponents accept the following marriage?

A 70 year old paedophile gets friendly with an eight year old child. The kid gets to like the guy and when asked if she wants to spend her life married to the guy she replies yes. Should they be allowed to marry?

If you reply no then you agree that a line has to be drawn! Therefore a line has to be drawn on gay couples adopting children.
Did I hear someone say "the two are not the same"? Well in principle they are since the child has feelings for the paedophile and really wants to be with him.

Keep your sexual preferences out of a child's life!

Any reason other than your own personal prejudice?

Your “argument” works just as well against heterosexual marriage. All you managed to do was make the relationship of this 70 year old pedophile and the 12 year old equal to your own marriage because you already declared them “in principle” to be the same thing

 

[AllForJesus]

Why do you want to break the nature? haven't you had enough of these interventions?

I have heard that homosexuals don't have their full rights!
I think if homosexual have their full right: no one gets more rights than what natures gives, or it will be a serious crime!

When men thought they can have people at their serve they committed slavery, when men think now they can have kids at their service it's not less then the first!

Instead of classifying people as irrational, try to find a rational way of calling your practice other then marriage, because it IS not the manners of fine men to steal concepts

 

[David Brider]

It will not have an effect on anyone else's relationship but rather an impact on society as a whole.

By condoning and normalizing abnormal behaviors the society begins losing cohesiveness and a sense of common morality and culture; the society thus begins losing its collective identity.

Two questions; firstly, what abnormal behaviours would same-gender marriage be condoning and normalising?

Secondly, in societies which have legalised same-gender marriage or a civil equivalent, can you point to instances of society losing its cohesiveness, common morality and culture, and collective identity?

David.