Question for Preterists

[Houly]

You consider Revelation (or most of it) fulfilled, but do you still expect a future appointed Day of the Lord? If so, what do you expect it to bring: an actual return of Jesus and the establishment of a physical kingdom, or the immediate re-creation of the heavens and the earth, or neither, or something else?

 

[Interplanner]

The passages that are in ordinary letters say the 2nd coming will happen without any Judaic detail to them--nothing about the land, the temple, worship system, etc. Rom 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3. Of course Hebrews would have said something if there was supposed to be a future worship system like the old covenant. There is the judgement day of God (or it is revealed) and then there will be the new creation. There is also no Judaic detail in Mt 24B (meaning after v29) and //s.

If you are postmillenial, you generally think of the "mill" as now because it is clear that it is part of normal history with its failed ending. A little period of rebellion happens at the end of it, and a kind of battle, but I would hestitate to see that as more than an image of a final confrontation of the principalities and powers of darkness vs the Lord, ending with his victory.

 

[Houly]

Hebrews would have said something if there was supposed to be a future worship system like the old covenant.

Ezekiel 40 is the blueprint for a third temple, with an altar and a place for burnt offerings, etc.

 

[shturt678]

The passages that are in ordinary letters say the 2nd coming will happen without any Judaic detail to them--nothing about the land, the temple, worship system, etc. Rom 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3. Of course Hebrews would have said something if there was supposed to be a future worship system like the old covenant. There is the judgement day of God (or it is revealed) and then there will be the new creation. There is also no Judaic detail in Mt 24B (meaning after v29) and //s.

If you are postmillenial, you generally think of the "mill" as now because it is clear that it is part of normal history with its failed ending. A little period of rebellion happens at the end of it, and a kind of battle, but I would hestitate to see that as more than an image of a final confrontation of the principalities and powers of darkness vs the Lord, ending with his victory.

Millennial began at 70 A.D. and ends with just the "1" Return, ie, the Parousia.

 

[Interplanner]

I understand the reasons for that, however, I would be more inclined to link the beginning of that to Christ's ascension. "God has made him Lord and Christ." What I have been thinking recently about the 'wedding' of Rev 18 is that it comes after the other woman is out of the picture. That is, 'Israel' riding on 'Rome,' then demolished by Rome. I could agree that the wedding is after the DofJ, but that is just imagery. Paul already said Christ had his bride, unless there is something about Eph 5 that just meant to refer to betrothal/engagement.

 

[shturt678]

I understand the reasons for that, however, I would be more inclined to link the beginning of that to Christ's ascension. "God has made him Lord and Christ." What I have been thinking recently about the 'wedding' of Rev 18 is that it comes after the other woman is out of the picture. That is, 'Israel' riding on 'Rome,' then demolished by Rome. I could agree that the wedding is after the DofJ, but that is just imagery. Paul already said Christ had his bride, unless there is something about Eph 5 that just meant to refer to betrothal/engagement.

The 1,000 years began with Christ's precious ascension and ends at Rev.20:7. Good job, ie, of great import to dial all this in and including myself.
,

 

[Jipsah]

Ezekiel 40 is the blueprint for a third temple, with an altar and a place for burnt offerings, etc.

Since our Lord has made the last sacrifice, the Ezekiel prophecy obviously applied to a time that's long past.

 

[Interplanner]

I think Jipsah is on to something: that the glory of the temple vision is best seen, and was meant to be seen, in what Christ did. How else would you explain to people at that time what he was going to do? They had their miserable post-exile temple, but the vision went way beyond that, and the Spirit of God was to be poured out too. So you would use the imagery of a temple, but you didn't actually mean that.

 

[Houly]

Since our Lord has made the last sacrifice, the Ezekiel prophecy obviously applied to a time that's long past.

It was definitely never built though. He gives the measurements of every gate, room, and courtyard.

 

[Houly]

I'll make another thread about Ezekiel's temple.

I'm still interested in hearing what more preterists expect.

Basically this is what I'm getting: We're all anticipating a certain appointed Day (the judgment, the new creation). Futurists think we've been given clues/details in prophecy about what will happen leading up to the Day (a 7-year tribulation, a final false prophet, a third temple, a millennial kingdom, etc). Preterists think those prophecies are figurative for what's already happened, so you don't think we've been given many details about the Day, just simply it will come.

 

[sonshine234]

You consider Revelation (or most of it) fulfilled, but do you still expect a future appointed Day of the Lord? If so, what do you expect it to bring: an actual return of Jesus and the establishment of a physical kingdom, or the immediate re-creation of the heavens and the earth, or neither, or something else?

Acts 1 is still to happen. Revelation was for the first century Christians

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Nicene Creed puts it rather clearly:

"We believe ... in one Lord Jesus Christ ... from thence He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;"

and also,

"We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the Age to Come. Amen"

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JLB777]

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28


JLB

 

[Interplanner]

Sonshine,
explain "Acts 1 has yet to happen." It is history. You must be thinking of a phrase within it, like 'restore the kingdom'?

 

[sonshine234]

Sonshine,
explain "Acts 1 has yet to happen." It is history. You must be thinking of a phrase within it, like 'restore the kingdom'?

Not quite.

Here is what I am talking about:

After saying this, he was taken up into a cloud while they were watching, and they could no longer see him. As they strained to see him rising into heaven, two white-robed men suddenly stood among them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why are you standing here staring into heaven? Jesus has been taken from you into heaven, but someday he will return from heaven in the same way you saw him go!”

Acts 1:9-11

I don't believe in any future stuff nor a millennium. I believe Christ is reigning now at the right hand of God the Father and as the passage says above He will come again as He went up.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, as I thought, just that one phrase. and yes, he has been reigning since sometime around then, as announced by Peter in ch 2's sermon. I just don't know what we are to deduce from 'he will return just as he left.' I mean it seemed to have been a rather quiet affair, vs. the great trumpet sound expected in other passages, and signs across the sky, etc.

 

[sonshine234]

Well I think that referred to something else, namely all that happened with the destruction of the temple. I really do not believe there is anything future in the Bible save for Christ coming back just as He left. I do think that to many look at the Bible and place it in future tense

 

[shturt678]

Revelation's Trumpets are blasting away right this moment of preliminary judgments to those that can hear their deafening blasts, ie, most today deaf of course. No worry, just my 4 bits.

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 16:

I just don't know what we are to deduce from 'he will return just as he left.'

Jesus will return "in like manner" as he ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of his first coming, he was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at his 2nd coming, he will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

 

[Houly]

I agree. All the nations of the world will see Him coming on the clouds.

And in today's world, when the first person sees it, it's on the news and it's on the internet.