question about jesus' teaching

[cyberlizard]

what does everyone think...

did Jesus promote unconditional pacifism?

vote and comment.


Steve

 

[Optimax]

Jesus with purpose set down made a whip and used it. Does not sound a lot like pacifism to me.

 

[Andry]

Jesus never did anything outside of the Father's will. See the Father, we see Jesus; and vice versa. If we looked at the Father, is he a pacifist?

 

[New_Wineskin]

none of the above .

Jesus promotes going to the Father to know what to do . There is a time for war and a time for peace . I would ask Him what time it is .

 

[nephilimiyr]

Matthew 11:12, From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

Jesus both taught and lived a life of being a non-pacifist. I voted no.

As for war? He never taught about it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Jesus promoted following your heart. If your heart says to get a stick and stop what is happening.. then do it.
If your heart says to be a peace... then do it.
There is no absolute answer here.

 

[BenAdam]

Jesus never did anything outside of the Father's will. See the Father, we see Jesus; and vice versa. If we looked at the Father, is he a pacifist?

Agreed.

That is the beauty. He walked perfectly in the will of the Father.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I voted no, but would have prefered voting other. Jesus promoted selflessness and transcending love. There was a supernatural love that came out from Him to all mankind. That same supernatural love flows out from the inner being of the believer in Jesus where the indewelling holy Spirit resides.

Pacifism is passive by definition. What Jesus did was active. He did not simply allow them to kill Him. He loved them and gave Himself to them to be their sacrifice for sin, even while they were mocking Him.

Jesus was love incarnate.

John 10:14-18

14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

 

[enoch son]

Let see here "AND GOD SAID UNTO MAN HERE IS MY BELOVED SON IN WHOM I AM PLEASED. DO YOUR VERY WORST TO HIM. FOR I AM LOVE AND HE IS MY LOVE." Sound to me like God didn't have the problem. But man on the other hand, well thats another story.

 

[lismore]

Jesus said love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

 

[gratefulgrace]

None of the options suited my understanding of Jesus' teaching. I abstained.

 

[Soul_Golem]

None of the options suited my understanding of Jesus' teaching. I abstained.

Me too. That is just crazy. Of course, Jesus couldn't have been a pacifist if he is promising to return as a warrior king, but that doesn't mean he is a warmonger either. After all, he is all about forgiveness, and he said "blessed is the peacemaker".

 

[NaLuvena]

I also abstain, because Jesus is not clearly defined in any of the presented options.

Jesus came to bring peace between man and God, but war upon Satan and those who stood in opposition to god.

 

[Alpine]

If Jesus was a total pacifist, then why did some of his disciples carry swords?

 

[BenAdam]

If Jesus was a total pacifist, then why did some of his disciples carry swords?

We don't really see what Jesus was other than obediant.

 

[JimB]

Christian pacifism and Christian militarism will never see eye-to-eye and both have their scriptures to support their rejection or involvement in warfare. It is a sticky problem. But we all have to follow our conscience and because these feelings are so entrenched in human nature, they are irresolvable (IMO). We will never be able to convince each other to either pick up or lay down arms.

Everyone will have to work this out with God and their conscience. But from my perspective, Jesus taught that …
§ His kingdom was not of this world (John 18.36)
§ If his kingdom were of this world His servants would fight (ditto)
§ We are to love, not kill, our enemies
§ It is the peacemakers who are blessed
§ Christ is the Prince of Peace (in every sense of that word)
§ To live by the sword is to die by the sword
§ We are ministers of reconciliation not of death
§ Jesus disarmed Peter in the Garden; not armed him
§ When physically attacked we are not to attack back
§ War (i.e. sending young men to kill and die) to protect old men’s economic interests is stupid, if not sinful.

War, they say, is just a cowardly way to escape the problems of peace. Furthermore, in war there are no winners, only varying degrees of losers.

I want to imitate Christ of the Gospels in all of my actions and nowhere do I see him resorting to violence to accomplish His ends, most especially when He was physically threatened or abused. In my wildest imagination I cannot picture Christ with an M-16 intentionally drawing a bead on another human being to blow Him away. Maybe you can. I can’t.

Anyhow, that’s where I stand (at least, from safety of my home at my computer).

~Anne Teak

One advantage of talking to yourself is that at least you know somebody is listening.​

 

[pinetree]

Christian pacifism and Christian militarism will never see eye-to-eye and both have their scriptures to support their rejection or involvement in warfare. It is a sticky problem. But we all have to follow our conscience and because these feelings are so entrenched in human nature, they are irresolvable (IMO). We will never be able to convince each other to either pick up or lay down arms.

Everyone will have to work this out with God and their conscience. But from my perspective, Jesus taught that …
§ His kingdom was not of this world (John 18.36)
§ If his kingdom were of this world His servants would fight (ditto)
§ We are to love, not kill, our enemies
§ It is the peacemakers who are blessed
§ Christ is the Prince of Peace (in every sense of that word)
§ To live by the sword is to die by the sword
§ We are ministers of reconciliation not of death
§ Jesus disarmed Peter in the Garden; not armed him
§ When physically attacked we are not to attack back
§ War (i.e. sending young men to kill and die) to protect old men’s economic interests is stupid, if not sinful.

War, they say, is just a cowardly way to escape the problems of peace. Furthermore, in war there are no winners, only varying degrees of losers.

I want to imitate Christ of the Gospels in all of my actions and nowhere do I see him resorting to violence to accomplish His ends, most especially when He was physically threatened or abused. In my wildest imagination I cannot picture Christ with an M-16 intentionally drawing a bead on another human being to blow Him away. Maybe you can. I can’t.

Anyhow, that’s where I stand (at least, from safety of my home at my computer).

~Anne Teak

One advantage of talking to yourself is that at least you know somebody is listening.​

What about Christian soldiers that fought hitler?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Christian pacifism and Christian militarism will never see eye-to-eye and both have their scriptures to support their rejection or involvement in warfare. It is a sticky problem. But we all have to follow our conscience and because these feelings are so entrenched in human nature, they are irresolvable (IMO). We will never be able to convince each other to either pick up or lay down arms.

Everyone will have to work this out with God and their conscience. But from my perspective, Jesus taught that …
§ His kingdom was not of this world (John 18.36)
§ If his kingdom were of this world His servants would fight (ditto)
§ We are to love, not kill, our enemies
§ It is the peacemakers who are blessed
§ Christ is the Prince of Peace (in every sense of that word)
§ To live by the sword is to die by the sword
§ We are ministers of reconciliation not of death
§ Jesus disarmed Peter in the Garden; not armed him
§ When physically attacked we are not to attack back
§ War (i.e. sending young men to kill and die) to protect old men’s economic interests is stupid, if not sinful.

War, they say, is just a cowardly way to escape the problems of peace. Furthermore, in war there are no winners, only varying degrees of losers.

I want to imitate Christ of the Gospels in all of my actions and nowhere do I see him resorting to violence to accomplish His ends, most especially when He was physically threatened or abused. In my wildest imagination I cannot picture Christ with an M-16 intentionally drawing a bead on another human being to blow Him away. Maybe you can. I can’t.

Anyhow, that’s where I stand (at least, from safety of my home at my computer).

Not a bad place to stand either.

This is a very sticky problem as you have said. Even though I agreed with what you said here I still am not quite sure about it. I believe there has been alot of unjust wars but I do see where war maybe the only way to go, the only option.

I think about all the evil in this world and that isn't there a time when spiritual warfare isn't enough? That physical warfare must be fought also? I guess I'm saying, to fight evil with with brute strength?

 

[JimB]

What about Christian soldiers that fought hitler?

You will never convince me with “logical” arguments like these that I have the right to kill human beings. I settled this matter in my heart decades ago.

But, for the sake of argument (for those who may be undecided and because I like a good tussle ): What about German Christian soldiers who fought for Germany against the Allies? There were Christians on both sides of that war.

You have to wonder what God must have thought about an American Baptist child of His drawing a bead on his brother, a German Lutheran child of His, to blow him away.

~Anne Teak

One advantage of talking to yourself is that at least you know somebody is listening.​

 

[pinetree]

You will never convince me with “logical” arguments like these that I have the right to kill human beings. I settled this matter in my heart decades ago.

But, for the sake of argument (for those who may be undecided and because I like a good tussle ): What about German Christian soldiers who fought for Germany against the Allies? There were Christians on both sides of that war.

You have to wonder what God must have thought about an American Baptist child of His drawing a bead on his brother, a German Lutheran child of His, to blow him away.

~Anne Teak

One advantage of talking to yourself is that at least you know somebody is listening.​

ahhh Jim~

My wise brother...

All that proves is that both Christians had their conscience's clear before God,that it was good to fight what they viewed as evil.

That also does not invalidate the point,that it was good for the Christian soldiers to fight the real evil of hitler.