Question about AOG/Pentecostal beliefs

[Forever trying]

Okay so I'm a Christian of the Catholic faith. But I ALSO go to a Pentecostal church, because quite frankly to me all that matters is good preaching, and to the same God. Everything else is just the different ways we praise him. Now in Australia (and increasingly internationally), Anglican, Catholic, and Orthodox churches are all great at getting on (bar from some old funny-duddys), recongnising their similarities, and hold joint services, and cooperation. However, talking to a couple of Pentecostals, they rave on about all other denominations (ie Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Orthodox, etc, etc) are unsaved, and haven't received the Holy Spirit. Even though in general I love the sense of Christian fellowship in the Pentecostal churches (I've been to more than one) this sort of judgement on the other Christian churches I find disturbing. Labelling them less Christian and their denominations don't count. As well as treating it like a competition as to which denomination is the biggest, compared to just how many people are or becoming Christians in general. Whereas with the traditional churches I've mentioned, we have our politcal and theological differences, but we don't condemn (except 100 years ago so to speak) other ones to hell, or accused them of being less Christian. Now I haven't heard this from every Pentecostal at all. Most are great, God loving people. But I've heard it enough to wonder is this the actual views that Pentecostal have of other denominations, or is this the views of only a few misguided individuals I've unfortunately come across?

 

[ebia]

Okay so I'm a Christian of the Catholic faith. But I ALSO go to a Pentecostal church, because quite frankly to me all that matters is good preaching, and to the same God. Everything else is just the different ways we praise him. Now in Australia (and increasingly internationally), Anglican, Catholic, and Orthodox churches are all great at getting on (bar from some old funny-duddys), recongnising their similarities, and hold joint services, and cooperation. However, talking to a couple of Pentecostals, they rave on about all other denominations (ie Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Orthodox, etc, etc) are unsaved, and haven't received the Holy Spirit. Even though in general I love the sense of Christian fellowship in the Pentecostal churches (I've been to more than one) this sort of judgement on the other Christian churches I find disturbing. Labelling them less Christian and their denominations don't count. As well as treating it like a competition as to which denomination is the biggest, compared to just how many people are or becoming Christians in general. Whereas with the traditional churches I've mentioned, we have our politcal and theological differences, but we don't condemn (except 100 years ago so to speak) other ones to hell, or accused them of being less Christian. Now I haven't heard this from every Pentecostal at all. Most are great, God loving people. But I've heard it enough to wonder is this the actual views that Pentecostal have of other denominations, or is this the views of only a few misguided individuals I've unfortunately come across?

Given the low post rate here I very much doubt you'll get enough responses from enough Pentecostals to form any kind of statistically valid judgement

 

[timewerx]

Okay so I'm a Christian of the Catholic faith. But I ALSO go to a Pentecostal church, because quite frankly to me all that matters is good preaching, and to the same God. Everything else is just the different ways we praise him. Now in Australia (and increasingly internationally), Anglican, Catholic, and Orthodox churches are all great at getting on (bar from some old funny-duddys), recongnising their similarities, and hold joint services, and cooperation. However, talking to a couple of Pentecostals, they rave on about all other denominations (ie Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Orthodox, etc, etc) are unsaved, and haven't received the Holy Spirit. Even though in general I love the sense of Christian fellowship in the Pentecostal churches (I've been to more than one) this sort of judgement on the other Christian churches I find disturbing. Labelling them less Christian and their denominations don't count. As well as treating it like a competition as to which denomination is the biggest, compared to just how many people are or becoming Christians in general. Whereas with the traditional churches I've mentioned, we have our politcal and theological differences, but we don't condemn (except 100 years ago so to speak) other ones to hell, or accused them of being less Christian. Now I haven't heard this from every Pentecostal at all. Most are great, God loving people. But I've heard it enough to wonder is this the actual views that Pentecostal have of other denominations, or is this the views of only a few misguided individuals I've unfortunately come across?

I used to be a Pentecostal/Evangelical for 20 years. Your observation is accurate but of course, not everyone is like that. Sadly, only few of them aren't like that in the Pentecostal churches I've been to so far.

I would ask you to avoid that Pentecostal church you're attending, if you cannot change their evil ways.

I don't consider myself belonging to any denomination anymore, still a follower of Jesus though.

It's not important that you belong to any denomination. The church is us, not the building. Test, what is being preached, if it rarely preaches the Gospel of Jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and especially avoids the hard teachings of Jesus, avoid it. They are only after the easy way to salvation, and won't burden themselves enough to show how much they love God.

I actually love the things your Pope Francis is saying about the poor, capitalism, depression, etc. They are Biblical and ironically, rarely/never heard in any Pentecostal/Evangelical church I've been.

 

[Forever trying]

Given the low post rate here I very much doubt you'll get enough responses from enough Pentecostals to form any kind of statistically valid judgement

Hi Ebia. True the numbers here will be quite low. But I posted this in the Pentecostal forums itself. And quite frankly only one Aussie posted on it, and he is obviously one of the older judgemental ones. With the others being American who are just a bit too extremist themselves. At lest if younger Australian Pentecostal post I would hopefully get a more objective opinion on view.

 

[tgg]

I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt with Pentecostal churches. They are evil and legalistic. In fact, one Pentecostal church in Brisbane got burned down to the ground a few years ago because the church leaders had upset the wrong person.

 

[1watchman]

Well, one needs to realize that Pentecostalism is a religious system of beliefs and not a denomination. Some Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, etc. even practice Pentecostalism. It has a set of beliefs universal that many Christians adopt, which are not held by other believers.

There are legalists in most church groups, even the so-called Brethren Movement I am part of; and legalism is as bad one way as liberalism is the other way ---departure from the pure Word of God.

Whatever we are associated with we need to keep the fundamentals of the Faith:
a) The Gospel of new birth (John 3), not just doctrines and religious forms;
b) Bowing to the Word of God ---"all the counsel of God" and "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", as the Apostle Paul taught;
c) Avoiding rituals, ceremonies, and other innovations and deletions to Scripture;
d) Expressing the "one body of Christ" in the world in "unity of the Faith", as God enjoins us ---every assembly being together of "one accord";
e) Encouraging all saints to "press on" in honor and obedience to our Lord Jesus, the Christ, and being faithful to God; etc., etc. etc.

 

[acousticsaint]

From what I understand Pentecostalism is defined by the separate baptism of the HS as opposed to the more traditional view that the person is indwelled by HS at regeneration. Once being 'filled with the spirit' the person is then given 'gifts of the spirit' such as speaking in tongues or prophecy.

So if the pentecostal is to be consistent with their belief system then those who have not been baptised in the HS are in fact lesser christians, they arent walking the power of God and may not even be saved.

As joyful as most pentecostals seem I found it condemning and in the end drove me from the church. Once you start to take their teachings to the logical conclusions you realise that if they are correct you will be going to hell. What they teach conflicts with a lot of scripture and is ultimately salvation by works - Christ saves you and gives you a clean slate now you have to live a godly life, this goes against scripture teaching that Christ lived the godly life that we can not and his righteousness is credited to us.

 

[XB3LI3V3RX]

I go to an AOG church, and I haven't heard anyone talk like that. I honestly don't know if I'm Pentecostal though, because if I'm being completely honest, I don't really even know the differences in all these different denominations and beliefs. I just want to serve God and spread his Word and that's really all I know for now.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

 

[acousticsaint]

I go to an AOG church, and I haven't heard anyone talk like that. I honestly don't know if I'm Pentecostal though, because if I'm being completely honest, I don't really even know the differences in all these different denominations and beliefs. I just want to serve God and spread his Word and that's really all I know for now.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

I think it is wise to know what the church you attend believes and affirms, read the AoG statement of faith, compare what it says to scripture, if youre still happy then at least now you will know that you can affirm the doctrines of your church, if not then find a church that you believe preaches the gospel and law correctly.

I grew up in the AoG movement. my parents are still AoG pastors - one thing I found after I started studying the christian faith is that most pentecostal churches do not teach much if any church history. It ends up with ppl thinking of christianity of as a decade or two old or maybe a century if you go back to the founding of the pentecostal movement.

Why aren't you a Roman Catholic? Do they affirm anything different regarding salvation? Why did the Reformation happen? What does it mean to be Protestant? What did Luther, Owen, Calvin, Augustine, Spurgeon, Edwards teach? Where they right or wrong?

Does any of that matter? Why not just serve God? But what does it really mean to serve God? Do we teach give your life to christ or christ gave his life for us? The distinction between those to positions has big implications but what are they?

The NT tells us to be ready to give a defence for our faith - how can we do that if we dont know what we believe?
Get a systematic theology book like Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology or Michael Horton's one and then start studying the reformation.

God Bless!!

 

[TheDag]

I attend a Pentecostal church at the moment. I know they do not hold this view based on comments made during services. The church I grew up in (lutheran) had that view but have since changed like most. Occasionly they joke that God only blesses you if your at the front but almost every church I have attended does different things to encourage people to sit closer to the front. As far as Pentecostal beliefs go different Pentecostal groups will have different beliefs on some things. That is evidenced by some AOG churches having different view on things to Hillsong which is part of the AOG denomination despite what some people believe. As AOG follows the US business model where they look for a strong leader as the AOG denomination were trying to distance themselves from two fighting televangelists they looked for a strong leader and saw Hillsong AOG going and started following and being influenced more by Hillsong.

 

[Forever trying]

I attend a Pentecostal church at the moment. I know they do not hold this view based on comments made during services. The church I grew up in (lutheran) had that view but have since changed like most. Occasionly they joke that God only blesses you if your at the front but almost every church I have attended does different things to encourage people to sit closer to the front. As far as Pentecostal beliefs go different Pentecostal groups will have different beliefs on some things. That is evidenced by some AOG churches having different view on things to Hillsong which is part of the AOG denomination despite what some people believe. As AOG follows the US business model where they look for a strong leader as the AOG denomination were trying to distance themselves from two fighting televangelists they looked for a strong leader and saw Hillsong AOG going and started following and being influenced more by Hillsong.

Hey Dag. Like I said I don't want to tarnish all with the same brush. My best mate of 13 years is Pentecostal, and his parents (who attend my AOG church, but he doesn't) are as well, and most of the people there are lovely and I love them. But even yesterday I was speaking to a great middle-aged fellow who was an Anglican but shifted to Pentecostalism, who doesn't hate Catholics himself or any other denomination himself, but warned me that I will find and under current of Pentecostals who think Catholics (and sometimes other Christian denominations) are lesser Christians.

 

[Johnnz]

Criticism of Catholics was quite common in the evangelical circles I grew up in. Many Pentecostals share that rather fundamentalist view which sees more traditional denominations rather negatively.

John
NZ

 

[marktheblake]

Whereas with the traditional churches I've mentioned, we have our politcal and theological differences, but we don't condemn (except 100 years ago so to speak) other ones to hell, or accused them of being less Christian.

We cannot condemn anyone. Thats not our job, Jesus gets to do that later.

As for being critical of other christians theology, or practices, thats fine as long as you apply two rules;
1. you have based your criticism on scripture.
2. you only share your criticism with like minded believers


You must never ever criticise a fellow christian/s publicly in front of unbelievers.

 

[AnthonyB]

Hmm think some of this needs to be put into perspective, it its too easy to judge others without understanding their mindset. I'm not Pentecostal myself but have did attend a Pente church for some years.

If you have a distinctive belief and place importance on that belief than you will disagree with people who don't agree with that distinctive. Many mainline churches place an emphasis an preisthood continutity and authority that flows from that. The Roman Catholic church for example would not view Pentecostal churches as fully fledged churches but "ecclesiatical communities" (pardon if I got the term wrong) because of this specific lack in their churches.

To Pente's, Baptism in the Spirit is a core distinctive, which they value deeply, they therefore view those who do not share their core believe as being somehow deficient in the faith in much the same way as RC do in regards to church without Apostolic continuity.

For me as an Evanglelical, one of my core distinctives is the need to engage in a coventantal relatdionship onself and that unless you do so, then you aren't really in realtionship. Churches that place coventent as a community response can have individuals that haven't personally engage with Jesus. I personally find it difficult to see their method as being beneficial to the making of disciples. I have seen too many relying on the faith of their parents or an act of a priest when they were babies, that I cannot see from my reading of the bible or them there lifestyle that there faith has made any difference for them.

Now I hope for the mercy of God to be as wide as possible, I would wish for everyone to be saved but I have to stand as to what I see the gospel as being. I quite like in essential unity, in nonessentials harmony and in all things love. However there is 2 points from that, if the essentials are nothing then nothing matters, you might as well eat, drink and be merry. Secondly even if you believe you know what the essentials are, you still must engage with others in love. However that will mean at times challenging other people with the gospels turth just as I hope they would challenge me in love if they truly believed I was straying from the way.

 

[tgg]

All humans come from the one source. Many beliefs, one species. Need I say more?

 

[apmercer]

If you do go to a Catholic church make sure you don't go to one that worships/prays to Mary as that it idolatry.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV) 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.