Queer eye for the straight guy

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SirKenin

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Truncate said:
There is no hard-evidence that so-called "bug-chasers" want to be HIV+.

Even if some of them do exist, it would be a small minority. We can see what some parts of christianity has done in the past, that it would not be wise to hate people for actions of a minority.

Even in the face of evidence, you and your sidekick do the same thing. Dive, duck and dodge. It's even from a secular magazine (Rolling Stone)

The evidence is there, right in front of your face. Just because you don't want to believe that your Sopwith Camel just got shot down doesn't change the fact that your plane is in pieces.
 
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kdet

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drfeelgood said:
Even in the face of evidence, you and your sidekick do the same thing. Dive, duck and dodge.

The evidence is there, right in front of your face. Just because you don't want to believe that your Sopwith Camel just got shot down doesn't change the fact that your plane is in pieces.

They defend the indefensible and deny the truth..I believe it's part of the satanic influence.
 
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You have any evidence, interviews with "bug-chasers," or something else more reliable, to prove that there are some homosexuals actively seeking out HIV/AIDS.

And, if they were actively seeking it out, they could contract it in other, non-sexual ways.

Even so, there are many heterosexuals actively seeking pregnancy, sex, fun, without caring about their health or others - it's human nature, we want enjoyment!
 
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SirKenin

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Truncate said:
We do not believe in any "demons." No red herrings, please.

hahaha. Red herrings. Let's take a look at the flip side of the coin. We'll take Bliss' posts. Now. Let's talk about red herrings.

lol. That's hilarious. :D
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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drfeelgood said:
Your sources are from 1980, 1993, 1998 and 2001.

So I forgot one of the dates...big deal. I was still basically correct.

Three have been shot down by newer data.

Newer data that was irrelevant. And it wasn't data; it was a pop-science piece.

The fourth was shot down by the reality that the data could be severely skewed due to stiff laws governing homosexuals, and the reality of a fear of coming forward and facing life in jail.

False, that in no way validates any of my sources.

Unfortunately your "Source" claims that homosexual sex is indeed quite harmful, as evidenced by those two quotes from the previous page.

False. Homosexual sex is not inherently harmful. In order to show it to be inherently harmful you have to show that 100% of sexually active homosexuals get AIDS and no heterosexuals do.

Your argument is that since homosexuals get AIDS, homosexual sex is harmful. The same argument works for heteros.
 
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SirKenin

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Truncate said:
You have any evidence, interviews with "bug-chasers," or something else more reliable, to prove that there are some homosexuals actively seeking out HIV/AIDS.

And, if they were actively seeking it out, they could contract it in other, non-sexual ways.

Even so, there are many heterosexuals actively seeking pregnancy, sex, fun, without caring about their health or others - it's human nature, we want enjoyment!

When you cite facts and figures that support your case... 80% of AIDS in the world is transmitted heterosexually!!!!!

... Do YOU offer up individual case studies and surveys, something more reliable, to prove your point?
 
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Woodsy

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Truncate said:
You have any evidence, interviews with "bug-chasers," or something else more reliable, to prove that there are some homosexuals actively seeking out HIV/AIDS.

You want interviews? Okay:

"Carlos nonchalantly asks whether his drink was made with whole or skim milk. He takes a moment to slurp on his grande Caffe Mocha in a crowded Starbucks, and then he gets back to explaining how much he wants HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. His eyes light up as he says that the actual moment of transmission, the instant he gets HIV, will be "the most erotic thing I can imagine." He seems like a typical thirty-two-year-old man, but, in fact, he has a secret life. Carlos is chasing the bug.

"I know what the risks are, and I know that putting myself in this situation is like putting a gun to my head," he says. Some of that mountain music that's so popular is playing, making the moment even more surreal as a Southern voice sings, "Keep on the sunny side of life" behind Carlos. "But I think it turns the other guy on to know that I'm negative and that they're bringing me into the brotherhood. That gets me off, too." "

"Condoms and safe sex are openly ridiculed on bug-chasing Web sites, with many bug chasers rebelling against what they see as the dogma of safe-sex education; constantly thinking about a deadly disease takes all the fun out of sex, they say, and condoms suck. Carlos agrees and says getting HIV will make safe sex a moot point. "It's about freedom," he says. "What else can happen to us after this? [...] Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV." "

Read the rest for yourself here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17380
 
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Mechanical Bliss

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drfeelgood said:
False?? In case you missed it, Ace, you've been shot down more times than the Japanese air force. That's generally what happens when you tow the party line and adhere to the agenda rather than rely on facts and world events. The rest of the time was spent ducking, diving and dodging the issues rather than face them head on. So I guess in one sense you're right. It's pretty hard for me to logically refute hatred, malice and personal attacks.

Here's the problem as I see it. You are trying to convince me that your lifestyle is right, just and moral. You are trying to convince me that there is nothing wrong with it. Listening to you, you have no choice but to believe it. After all, you are born with a gene that is supposedly dictating your every move. Naturally you would have an agenda. A bias. That makes what you say even less believable, and the burden of proof that much greater.

The thing is, you lost my interest a long time ago with your lack of facts and in your face mannerism, replete with accusations and hatred.

So, not only do I not believe a word you say, knowing what I know from reading, I also couldn't possibly care less if you get regulated back to the Stone Age. You lost one sympathetic ear a long time ago.

Sorry, but religious propaganda is not evidence.

Furthermore, the only hate here is yours. Look at you flinging insult after insult.

The fact is, homosexuality is not inherently harmful nor does it infringe on your rights. That is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not it is chosen (and every scientific organization in the U.S. indicates that it isn't), all that matters is that it is harmless. So get over it and cut the insults. I have nothing more to say to you.
 
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SirKenin

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Mechanical Bliss said:
So I forgot one of the dates...big deal. I was still basically correct.

As throughout this entire thread, you are quite incorrect.

Newer data that was irrelevant. And it wasn't data; it was a pop-science piece.

What makes it irrelevant? Your erroneous claims? Because it shot your plane into fragments? What else is new?

What makes CDC any less of a data source than any of the ones you quoted? They don't agree with your way of thinking? Are you quite mad? Now you're looking like a fool.

False, that in no way validates any of my sources.

No. Your sources can't be validated. They can be, and were, invalidated. Further, it isn't false. It's fact from Singapores criminal code. Perhaps you'd like to prove that false? Even though the evidence came from a homosexual activist website?

False. Homosexual sex is not inherently harmful. In order to show it to be inherently harmful you have to show that 100% of sexually active homosexuals get AIDS and no heterosexuals do.

Your argument is that since homosexuals get AIDS, homosexual sex is harmful. The same argument works for heteros.

My argument is those two quotes that show homosexual sex is inherently harmful. One of two arguments you have repeated excessively, only to get blown out of the water each time.
 
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kdet

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Sorry, but religious propaganda is not evidence.

Furthermore, the only hate here is yours. Look at you flinging insult after insult.

The fact is, homosexuality is not inherently harmful nor does it infringe on your rights. That is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not it is chosen (and every scientific organization in the U.S. indicates that it isn't), all that matters is that it is harmless. So get over it and cut the insults. I have nothing more to say to you.

If that's all that matters, then why are you here every day arguing for it?
 
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drfeelgood said:
When you cite facts and figures that support your case... 80% of AIDS in the world is transmitted heterosexually!!!!!

... Do YOU offer up individual case studies and surveys, something more reliable, to prove your point?
I never stated that fact, MechanicalBliss did.

But, when you make a claim such as re:'bugchasers,' you should have hard evidence -- multiple sources from reputible places helps -- if you do not want to be looked at as a spreader of propaganda.
 
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SirKenin

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Mechanical Bliss said:
Sorry, but religious propaganda is not evidence.

Furthermore, the only hate here is yours. Look at you flinging insult after insult.

Hai Pot. Nice to meet you. lol :D

The fact is, homosexuality is not inherently harmful nor does it infringe on your rights. That is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether or not it is chosen (and every scientific organization in the U.S. indicates that it isn't), all that matters is that it is harmless. So get over it and cut the insults.

Yes, I've heard you repeat that like a broken record. Unfortunately, your facts failed you and the opposing facts proved otherwise.

I have nothing more to say to you.

I think you've said that 6 times in the last 10 posts. What does that say about you?
 
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Tribe said:
You want interviews? Okay:

"Carlos nonchalantly asks whether his drink was made with whole or skim milk. He takes a moment to slurp on his grande Caffe Mocha in a crowded Starbucks, and then he gets back to explaining how much he wants HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. His eyes light up as he says that the actual moment of transmission, the instant he gets HIV, will be "the most erotic thing I can imagine." He seems like a typical thirty-two-year-old man, but, in fact, he has a secret life. Carlos is chasing the bug.

"I know what the risks are, and I know that putting myself in this situation is like putting a gun to my head," he says. Some of that mountain music that's so popular is playing, making the moment even more surreal as a Southern voice sings, "Keep on the sunny side of life" behind Carlos. "But I think it turns the other guy on to know that I'm negative and that they're bringing me into the brotherhood. That gets me off, too." "

"Condoms and safe sex are openly ridiculed on bug-chasing Web sites, with many bug chasers rebelling against what they see as the dogma of safe-sex education; constantly thinking about a deadly disease takes all the fun out of sex, they say, and condoms suck. Carlos agrees and says getting HIV will make safe sex a moot point. "It's about freedom," he says. "What else can happen to us after this? [...] Nothing bad can happen after you get HIV." "

Read the rest for yourself here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17380
OK...very strange, extremely-small minority there.

First, only roughly 3-5% of people are homosexuals. Then, the amount of them that have the mental-problem that causes them to want HIV/AIDS, is only a minority of that already small 3-5 percent.

There are heterosexual people that are paedophiles, schizophrenic, whatnot, that harm others. Does that mean that no one can talk about sex, in any media outlet - not homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual!?! For fear that it is an 'omni'sexual agenda to destroy our society? :sigh:
 
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Woodsy

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Truncate said:
But, when you make a claim such as re:'bugchasers,' you should have hard evidence -- multiple sources from reputible places helps

Here's a story about a lesbian filmmaker's documentary avbout Bug-Chasers :

"Hogarth’s new documentary “The Gift” attempts to chronicle the scope and intensity of the gay-male phenomenon of “barebacking.” This Internet-based, fringe world includes three camps: “bug chasers,” allegedly HIV-negative, deliberate risk-takers of condom-less anal intercourse for increased stimulation and as fetish; and “gift givers,” HIV-positive gays who get off on sero-converting (changing the HIV status of) others.
There are also plain old “barebackers,” men averse to condoms who are simply indifferent to sexually transmitted diseases.
"

From: http://www.epgn.com/StoryPages/Detour/Gift.html

Here's one from a gay website:

"Bug chasers and gift givers use a rather quaint terminology, a twisted metaphor for the child-bearing process. Many bug-chasers are just plain ____ who will get _______ by anyone with a viral load, others shop around as one would for a husband, looking for just the right person to be the “father” of their infection. The giver “impregnates” the chaser with his “gift.” The virus passed between them is a “child” that they share.

Maybe I shouldn’t judge, but there’s more to this subject than sexual freedom and the rights of the individual. I’m thinking down the road here, about how an already overburdened health care system is going to deal with this influx of “voluntary” HIV infections, not to mention the strain this will place on state programs and social service organizations many people with HIV desperately depend on for their medical and economic needs."

This lovely one is from here: http://www.gazeguide.com/~pozthink/pt020815.htm
 
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Woodsy

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Truncate said:
OK...very strange, extremely-small minority there.

First, only roughly 3-5% of people are homosexuals. Then, the amount of them that have the mental-problem that causes them to want HIV/AIDS, is only a minority of that already small 3-5 percent.
Yet, as the article says, they are responsible for 25% of new AIDS cases.

"writer Gregory Freemen, based on comments by public health officials, asserts that 25 percent of the 40,000 new AIDS infections every year are gay men who have sought out the disease. "
 
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Tribe said:
Yet, as the article says, they are responsible for 25% of new AIDS cases.
Proof? Did they go to africa, the US, Europe, Canada, etc., ask thousands of people with AIDS and ask them who they contracted the disease from, then go to said person and ask him/her if she wanted to give his/her partner HIV/AIDS?

If so, wow! Thorough scientists/researchers, indeed!
 
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Tribe said:
Here's a story about a lesbian filmmaker's documentary avbout Bug-Chasers :

"Hogarth’s new documentary “The Gift” attempts to chronicle the scope and intensity of the gay-male phenomenon of “barebacking.” This Internet-based, fringe world includes three camps: “bug chasers,” allegedly HIV-negative, deliberate risk-takers of condom-less anal intercourse for increased stimulation and as fetish; and “gift givers,” HIV-positive gays who get off on sero-converting (changing the HIV status of) others.
There are also plain old “barebackers,” men averse to condoms who are simply indifferent to sexually transmitted diseases.
"

From: http://www.epgn.com/StoryPages/Detour/Gift.html

Here's one from a gay website:

"Bug chasers and gift givers use a rather quaint terminology, a twisted metaphor for the child-bearing process. Many bug-chasers are just plain ____ who will get _______ by anyone with a viral load, others shop around as one would for a husband, looking for just the right person to be the “father” of their infection. The giver “impregnates” the chaser with his “gift.” The virus passed between them is a “child” that they share.

Maybe I shouldn’t judge, but there’s more to this subject than sexual freedom and the rights of the individual. I’m thinking down the road here, about how an already overburdened health care system is going to deal with this influx of “voluntary” HIV infections, not to mention the strain this will place on state programs and social service organizations many people with HIV desperately depend on for their medical and economic needs."

This lovely one is from here: http://www.gazeguide.com/~pozthink/pt020815.htm
More mentally-ill people, doing something they think is OK.

As I've stated before, heterosexual paedophiles think what they do is OK.

Not to mention that there are heterosexual guys, in college and other places, that have sex with females to increase their 'ego/coolness,' not caring what diseases they give/receive, or whom they get pregnant, nor who they hurt emotionally. It's a two-sided coin. Humans are sexually - everyone is here (alive) because of sex. It's also a fact that a certain percentage of people have mental-illness(es), which can be sexual in nature, and can cause harm to others.
 
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