Psychic Abilities
- Thread starter Tobias
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Yes, that's right.
There really isn't much difference between someone getting a word of knowledge from the Holy Spirit, and someone getting told some tidbit of information from the Devil. I can't understand how some people make the distinction out to be so drastic.
To me, it's like the difference between hearing a good preacher on the radio, or listening to a liberal talk show host on the same radio but on a different station. In both instances we are listening to a radio. The big difference is in who we are listening to!
Obviously we shouldn't go listening to the Devil.Only point of this discussion has to do with how we receive the transmission when God speaks to us, so that we can better tune in and maximize our usage of it.
Well the answer is simple. It takes practice. You have to exercise your discernment of good and evil before you are ready for 'strong meat'.
Then you can apply that ability on doctrinal issues so you can discern things of the Holy Spirit verses doctrines of demons.
Those that don't have that discernment should just stick to milk, ie basic doctrines.
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I agree. There can be different spiritual senses involved in differing spiritual gifts.
For example, I tend to get spiritual smells. I can smell the corruption of evil. Different types of evil have different smells. I can even smell sweet smells like perfume during heavy worship. I first noticed it in my early twenties when there was a coven of witches operating in my military dorm.
My primary gift has always been discernment of spirits but I don't have the visual form of it. I have friends that see demons and angels but I never have. I smell the corruption as opposed to seeing it because my spiritual eyes have another use. I have seen prophetic visions.
For example, I got a vision of the character of each of the girls in my military dormitory while I was looking for a wife. The vision I had of the girl that reeked of corruption and death was full of symbolism of her witchcraft. I didn't understand those symbols at that time, symbols of a grove of trees with a crescent moon shaped cesspool of stagnant foul waters.
I told that girl I didn't know what kind of evil she was into but the type of evil I senses was something on the order of witchcraft, mass murder or human sacrifice. She reeked of death and corruption. It turned out she was a high priestess of Isis into black witchcraft and curses. She had also had 23 abortions she dedicated to her goddess and used the blood from them in her witchcraft to gain power. She had been guilty of all 3. When I explained what I saw in my vision, the coven knew all the symbolism in it pertaining to their witchcraft and I had been right on with a word of knowledge with out even realizing that is what it was. I didn't even know she was a witch at the time. I had no clue that the bases coven had two of their primary leaders in my dorm and they had been recruiting many of the girls into witchcraft.
IMO some people have different spiritual senses attuned to specific gifts. Even the coven could summon counterfeit gifts. For example, they could do a ritual to bind a spirit to them to give them vision into the spiritual realm to see the spirits they deal with. Because of that ability, they saw an angel appear with me during more then one major confrontation.
So there are abilities from Yah and also counterfeit abilities granted by spiritual forces of the enemy. The gifts don't operate the same way in every person. Some hear, some feel, some smell, .... It is a matter of exercising those gifts and discerning the source of them.
I get the same type of senses off some people's posts or certain denominational groups here on CF. Sometimes you really have to dig to determine what is wrong with their doctrine to understand the foulness behind it that radiates off their words even when the words sound nice and 'christian' so to speak. The spirits and doctrines of the anti-christ are everywhere within doctrinal issues.
Now the pagan goddess they were dealing with was the spirit of a dead Nephilim from the time of Babel. She was the daughter of one of the four angels bound at the Euphrates that is released in the tribulation according to Revelation. She was worshiped as a goddess during her life because of her angelic lineage. The Canaanites called her Ashtoreth. The Roman's called her Diana. She was the goddess of queen Jezebel.
Now my spiritual gifts became evident while in great need and in major spiritual conflict. Without the great evil around me, I may have never developed the gifts. It took exercising those gifts in extreme events while confronting witchcraft in my case.
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I would have to disagree here. Of course there are counterfeit gifts from the enemy but that does not mean that they are all from the enemy.
IMO we are all granted certain gifts as part of our makeup. Scripture compares these gifts as gems. For example, the 'king of Tyrus' in Eze 28 has 9 of the 12 gems of the Ephod in his makeup but he is missing the entire 3rd row of gems. If you understand what each of those gems represents it sheds some interesting enlightenment. For example he has the gem of praise but lacks the gem of the anointing of the Holy Spirit thus that gift is corrupted into boasting or self-praise. It is in how the gifts are used that makes them evil or not. If led by the Holy Spirit verses some other spirit.
This is one reason to hold the office of prophet, the primary gifts of the prophet needs to be discernment of spirits, not prophecy. You have to be able to determine the source of the spiritual message. The ability to hear in the spiritual realm doesn't imply you KNOW the source of the message. This is how false prophets come into being, those that hear but don't discern.
I have seen many 'gifts' used in the churches that were not led by the Holy Spirit. I have witnessed false prophecy, tongues and even words of knowledge but the source was not the Holy Spirit. Those times made the Holy Spirit within me cringe at those events.
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Here I have to disagree. Satan is not concerned with the average Christian. He probably doesn't know or care about us as individuals. We are dealing mainly with low level minions that we claim is Satan himself. What we think of as Satan in our lives is probably just very low level spiritual forces in the enemy realm.
In my life, I have only had HaSatan intervene in my life once. It was due to the destruction of the coven I mentioned so a high level spirit was sent to get rid of me.
Now the spiritual realm is broken up into different principalities. I had been in conflict with a different principality and had defeated those forces so they brought in forces from a different principality to use their tactics. Those forces used greatly different tactics and worked through authority above me. Those forces worked through the military chain of command and I was ordered to take an early separation. That order had come down from the Air Force Chief of Staff due to a manpower issued and I was used as a test case.
You don't bind or rebuke Satan when we are just dealing with low level spirits. We have to rebuke the individual spirits themselves or they just ignore us. They are very legalistic.
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LOL, Sorry D2wing, but I know exactly what I am talking about. I am very familiar with witchcraft and teach against it. I have stood against covens and seen them destroyed by the power of Yah. I hold the office of prophet and have for over 20 years.
I have NEVER been involved in the occult. I was raised in a christian household and got saved at 3 years old. My own mother is a major author on prophecy. I got the baptism of the spirit at 14 and called as a prophet at 20. By the time I was 24 I had already had major conflicts against witchcraft leading other christians to stand against it and those conflicts had major impacts. For example out of that 1st conflict California passed its first anti-stalking law and all other states following passing similar laws.
The 'king of Tyre/Tyrus' is specifically a reference to the pagan deity Molech. He had a title of Melqart in Tyre which means 'king of the city'. I have spent years studying what scripture has to say about the ancient paganism because of my past conflicts against it. I even went back to bible college to learn Hebrew for better understanding.
Eze 28 contains 3 prophecies. All three of them are to the primary pagan deities of the Phoenicians. The 1st is to Baal, ie the 'anti-christ' spirit. The 2nd to Molech and the third to Ashtoreth, the primary deity of Sidon. He is the 'prince of Tyre'.
Now is Molech just another name for HaSatan? Yes that is my understanding.
Isa 57 specifically ties Molech worship with 'debasing thyself unto Sheol'.
Of course most christianity takes its doctrine on who and what HaSatan is from works like Paradise Lost and twists scripture to match their preconceptions.
If your not ready for 'strong meat' stick to milk. Your option is noted and rejected as irrelevant.
BTW, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Do you understand why? Witchcraft is all about usurping invalid authority while rebellion is rejecting valid authority. Why are you trying to usurp authority over me? You have no authority to silence the understanding that the Holy Spirit has led me into understanding. That very act on your part is a form of witchcraft and I never bow to witchcraft.
I have NEVER been involved in the occult. I was raised in a christian household and got saved at 3 years old. My own mother is a major author on prophecy. I got the baptism of the spirit at 14 and called as a prophet at 20. By the time I was 24 I had already had major conflicts against witchcraft leading other christians to stand against it and those conflicts had major impacts. For example out of that 1st conflict California passed its first anti-stalking law and all other states following passing similar laws.
The 'king of Tyre/Tyrus' is specifically a reference to the pagan deity Molech. He had a title of Melqart in Tyre which means 'king of the city'. I have spent years studying what scripture has to say about the ancient paganism because of my past conflicts against it. I even went back to bible college to learn Hebrew for better understanding.
Eze 28 contains 3 prophecies. All three of them are to the primary pagan deities of the Phoenicians. The 1st is to Baal, ie the 'anti-christ' spirit. The 2nd to Molech and the third to Ashtoreth, the primary deity of Sidon. He is the 'prince of Tyre'.
Now is Molech just another name for HaSatan? Yes that is my understanding.
Isa 57 specifically ties Molech worship with 'debasing thyself unto Sheol'.
Of course most christianity takes its doctrine on who and what HaSatan is from works like Paradise Lost and twists scripture to match their preconceptions.
If your not ready for 'strong meat' stick to milk. Your option is noted and rejected as irrelevant.
BTW, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Do you understand why? Witchcraft is all about usurping invalid authority while rebellion is rejecting valid authority. Why are you trying to usurp authority over me? You have no authority to silence the understanding that the Holy Spirit has led me into understanding. That very act on your part is a form of witchcraft and I never bow to witchcraft.
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I don't have a problem with seeing much more demonic influences then most people. I basically see a demon lurking behind every bush BUT I also agree we can do things based on our own flesh without the need for demonic interaction.
I see the demonic forces as setting up strongholds in our behavior then leaving it up to our flesh to carry it out. They may come back if we try to tear down that stronghold in our life.
I agree that abilities are given to us by Yah. Some IMO are given into our makeup at birth. Some have musical ability while people like me don't. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I was not given any musical ability in my creation.
Now scripture does forbid certain types of psychic abilities. We are not to deal with familiar spirits. We are not to seek spiritual forces outside of those provided by the Holy Spirit. Now what do passages like 'the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets' mean? That is open for debate.
In the book of Job, one of Job's pagan friends tells Job to seek guidance from an ancestral spirit guide by visiting a pagan temple. This is not easily seen in the English translations unless you understand many of the pagan references. Of course Job rejects his 'friends' statements.
Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow
10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
Yah's law specifically forbids dealing with spirits of the dead. We are not to honor them or place their influences above His so psychic abilities dealing with those spirits is specifically forbidden.
Now we also have spirits standing in the divine counsel of Yah offering to be lying spirits in the mouth of the false prophets of king Ahab. What spirits are these? They are serving the will of Yah. The false prophets then tell Ahab of his coming victory which is of course a lie. They are 'false prophets' because they were listening to a spirit other then the Holy Spirit and can't tell the difference.
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We are all both spiritual and physical beings. Most of us are just spiritually deaf and dumb for the most part. As a matter of fact, Yah cursed the children of Israel with spiritual blindness because of falling into the ancient paganism. That implies they had spiritual discernment before that curse. Because of that curse many refused to see Yeshua as the messiah.
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This is a good example of a post that reeks of the evil behind it. With experience you even begin to recognize what spirits are working through the individual.
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So everyone that warns you has an evil spirit. It is you who are a practicing seer. This is forbidden by scripture. If I am wrong show me in plain scripture.
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Practicing seer? My primary gift is discernment of spirits. There is only one time in my life I had prophetic visions like that and that was over 20 years ago while in a major conflict against witchcraft. Besides, I had no idea why I was having those visions at the time but it was a witness to the coven I was in opposition towards that the powers of Yah rivaled their own power. IMO the reason I had them was as a witness to them and to rally the other Christian behind me in opposition to them.
I didn't even know I was in a conflict against witchcraft at that time but they saw me as an enemy because I was operating in spiritual gifts proving there was also power in Christianity. That was directly contrary to what they were trying to teach.
The most powerful spiritual gifts were in operation during that time of my life in direct opposition to their witchcraft. The first prophetic word I ever gave was to a room full of about 30 witches. The first time I was given a word of knowledge was during that conflict. LOL, in shock one of them said I was 'channeling Jesus' after I prophesied to them. As a result most of the coven repented of their involvement in witchcraft and got saved. Granted that happened at a later time when that prophetic word came true and they were arrested for their criminal activities. Many of those activities were conducted in attempts to destroy me and my wife.
I am not or ever been a practitioner of ANY occult practice. You are making asinine accusations that are absolutely false while braking forum rules with your personal attacks. I deal in deliverance and have helped pull people out of the occult.
Now as to a scripture concerning such things:
Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Prophetic visions are a part of many references in scripture. For example the entire book of Revelation came from prophetic visions. Daniel had many prophetic visions and dreams.
You have to be VERY careful to call a work of the Holy Spirit as the operation of a demon. That is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and can have severe consequences. Granted anyone with a prophetic calling is under constant attack like that and we all know who is behind that.
Yes it is true that people involved in the occult can be possessed. The high priestess of Ashtoreth I was in conflict against had taken on a high level familiar spirit. She was promised the same familiar spirit as queen Jezebel had when she became the worldwide high priestess. She was abandoned by her goddess and her witchcraft stopped working when she ended up in prison for her attacks against me and my wife. She repented and went back to Catholicism.
To claim I had an evil spirit when I was the Elijah to her Jezebel is totally ridiculous and demonstrates your absolute ignorance.
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Thank you for your response. If you are certain that you are not mixing the occult and the Gifts of the Spirit that is good for me. I am sorry if you are offended. This seems odd to me but I will let it go and wish you well. I do not have full peace but as you say, maybe I have an issue. I have some experience in both realms and know how serious this is. Please excuse an old mans caution and forgive me.
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I am absolutely certain I am not mixing in paganism with Christianity. The corruption of paganism into Judaism and Christianity has been my primary area of study for many years to the point I had to learn Hebrew to better understand the scriptures concerning them.
I know doctrines that have their roots in Baal worship for example. If you don't know and understand that paganism, you can't spot their corruption within the church.
I am knowledgeable concerning those occult practices but not a participant in them. My calling has always been in opposition to that corruption whether in the world battling paganistic witchcraft or opposing the doctrines with pagan roots in the church.
But IMO the OP was right that the enemy can and does corrupt the gifts a person inherently has. A person born with a great musical talent can get drawn into the worldly music scene if unsaved for example. The enemy will always corrupt our natural abilities towards evil. That doesn't imply the ability is evil but the use of it can be turned to evil.
Those that have inherent spiritual abilities are more easily susceptible to corruption by the enemy IMO prior to salvation. Those abilities are not always granted by the enemy, but exploited by them. Those that are granted the prophetic gifts are a major target of the enemy to corrupt them for their own purposes or destroy them if they follow Yah because of they threat they present.
Now my reference to Eze 28. Each gem listed is a gem of the Ephod, the breast plate of the high priest. Each gem represented a tribe of Israel. Each tribe is also associated with specific attributes. For example the tribe of Judah is about 'praise'. The 'king of Tyrus' was granted 9 of the 12 great attributes but is missing 3 of the gems to qualify as a high priest who had to represent all 12. He is missing the gem concerning 'anointing'. He is also missing the 'double burden bearer' gem of Isachar. He also lacks the warrior gem of Gad. He is not a face to face warrior but a cowardly archer that sends his fiery darts from a distance.
Now he also has the gems concerning musical ability. It states they were given to him on the day of his creation and the Hebrew word used means 'created by birth'. That implies to me that we are given certain ingrained abilities. Granted we are on a mission to develop a christlike nature while Yeshua is our high priest that has ALL the required attributes. So IMO we are to attempt to develop the abilities we were not given at birth. Those not given prophecy for example are to desire the greater gifts. Now turning to the enemy to be granted those abilities is also a problem. Yah will only give us the gifts we are ready to handle IMO. We need the spiritual maturity not to misuse those gifts.
In my case, the major gifts only tend to manifest in dire need in heavy spiritual conflict. For example, the prophetic word in my sig was from another conflict on a college campus. It had a major impact on that campus. And again I was at the center of that conflict.
Now whether it is me being drawn to conflict or the enemy bringing that conflict against me is open for debate.
Your apology is accepted. I would suggest you deal with your own beams before assuming someone is in blatant error without having all the facts. Even then is it your calling to be an accuser of your brethren? Basically that is one of the roles of a prophet to bring correction to error as a proclaimer of the truth. Too many try to operate in that role without that calling. It isn't an easy calling to have. Believe me, I know.
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Thank you I appreciate your response. I do not dispute your comments about me and will,consider them. Your explanation is appreciated. I have never heard your teaching before, it is interesting. I agree with you about the natural gifts but have not heard of them being related to spiritual gifts. To me that has been a red flag and a sign of witchcraft. But I am now open to a new look. I hope you understand why I was concerned. I am happy to be corrected and glad that you helped me to understand what was going on. Peace brother.
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Actually I learned that doctrine in my conflict against the high priestess of Ashtoreth. She specifically targeted people with inherent spiritual gifts to turn them to evil. If they could not be turned, they needed to be discredited or destroyed. I was her nemesis and primary target because I was teaching biblical principals that were in direct opposition of her doctrines and hindering their efforts. The coven considered me a prophet long before I even acknowledged having that office myself because of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. All I was trying to do was teach the girl I was courting biblical principals on relationship.
Years later I learned about the attributes of the gems in a study I conducted. I knew that the gems were a sub-set of those of the ephod listed in the same order. I researched the meaning of each of the gems and the tribes associated from the Ephod. The specific blessings by Jacob to each tribe helped identify the attributes associated with each. You would never have heard the teaching from anyone else. I never have. I know there is teachings on the attributes of the tribes. I used it in my own research.
When I saw what gems were missing and how they exactly showed the character of the enemy it fell into place. The gems are not a description of his beauty as many teach but a list of character traits and inborn abilities. Scripture has layer upon layer of meaning. That is what keeps it fresh and can be studied for an entire lifetime while still uncovering new insight. We may each be given specific insight. It is as a whole that all the mysteries can be revealed. Different people are given different pieces of the puzzle.
IMO the gems are the set of inborn abilities given to us that determines our specific calling. Certain traits work in conjunction to define character and the type of ministry we get called into. As we spiritually mature we gain additional attributes. We overcome problems and grow spiritually. Certain abilities in conjunction with the anointing produce spiritual gifts. Many never develop the gifts they are given because of hindrance, opposition like yours.
For example, I see that stubbornness is a requirement of a prophet. The refusal to bow to outside pressure to conform to standard interpretation or to the traditions of man. You have to have the stubbornness to stand up in the face of opposition and turn the other cheek while standing your ground and not backing down regardless of how many slaps you take to the face. That is what it means to turn the other cheek. It isn't a position of meekness but in defiance to false accusations. When was Yeshua slapped in the face? When He stood His ground with the High Priest. He didn't back down regardless of being accused of blasphemy. That was what a slap in the face was, an accusation of severe error.
The only problems I am aware of in my own character are problems with anger. When the coven couldn't destroy me they targeted my new wife and I lost her. So when under attack, I have problems keeping my peace but I did get to see the wrath of Yah fall on those involved.
Eze 16 is about Jerusalem as a women that fell under the doctrines and corruption of Ashtoreth. That passage also gives the consequences of His wrath. That passage was fulfilled nearly word for word in the high priestess of Ashtoreth's life. Over a dozen people died in that 1st conflict with witchcraft. The consequences for their actions were very severe. The coven was convicted of drug, drug distribution, sexual assault, gang rape as well as treason or conspiracy to commit treason. They were running a date rape drug distribution ring in the military and sabotaged a military aircraft in one attempt against my wife. Some of them got 85 year prison sentences in federal prison. The members that were military police didn't survive long in prison. Drug dealing crooked cop gang rapists don't live long in prison. Most of the coven members repented. Those that didn't died, brutally.
Many of the teachings I present are 'strong meat'. They require an indepth knowledge of scripture for many of the concepts and they are in opposition to many commonly accepted doctrines. I always have a large measure of opposition to most of my teachings. There are so many deeply rooted demonic doctrines. I have also seen the consequences on those that have conducted attacks against me because of my teaching. It isn't pretty.
All I can do is sound the alarm as a watcher on the walls. It isn't my responsibility to drag people away to safety but I MUST sound the alarm or I am held accountable.
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What, every other post coming from someone condemning psychic abilities and/or the occult didn't give it away?
The original topic of discussion was lost a long time ago. Apparently my position that we can compare Christian practices with secular ones, and use interchangeable terminology, is not commonly shared.
I don't see anything wrong with discussing how God works in us. I think it is important to know how He does it, and perhaps work to perfect the human part of the equation so that we can be of better service. If we know that to be a better teacher we must study the scriptures, then we can keep that goal in mind. If the key to use the Gift of "word of knowledge" is to learn to hear His voice more clearly, or learn how to deliver the message more graciously; then we can work toward that end. Sometimes just learning the difference between God's part and our part is the most useful thing we can do!
This thread however went a completely different direction that I intended. I keep trying to think of something to say to do damage control, but nothing comes to mind. I never intended for it to come across like: "Hey I'm psychic, look how special I am!" In fact, I was shooting for just the opposite!
For many years I didn't think of myself as capable as other people in sensing the things of God. But over time I have come to realize that my abilities are simply different. I cannot "see" much in the spiritual real. But I can "hear", "feel", and "know" things. By learning what my skills are, I have been able to work around the deficiencies that come from what I can't do.
I think it's really cool that Yahu can "smell" things in the spiritual. It sounds like he has worked with his gift, and has learned how to use it very effectively.
There is a theory out there that every human has some amount of spiritual-sensing abilities. As most people don't admit to them, or have never learned how to use them with any amount of dependability, this is just a theory. There are things we can do to make ourselves more sensitive to spiritual input, and things we can do to block it.
The way most Christians talk, you'd think the only right thing to do is to block all spiritual input, God's voice included!
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So are we to start calling prophecy, 'channeling Jesus'?
I think separate terms to distinguish between something led of the Holy Spirit is appropriate.
Granted IMO many that are operating in spiritual gifts are not doing so via the Holy Spirit yet are passed off as being so. IMO this is why it is stated in scripture for known prophets to test the word coming from another prophet. It takes their discernment to confirm the validity for those without that discernment.
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For many years I didn't think of myself as capable as other people in sensing the things of God. But over time I have come to realize that my abilities are simply different. I cannot "see" much in the spiritual real. But I can "hear", "feel", and "know" things. By learning what my skills are, I have been able to work around the deficiencies that come from what I can't do.
I think it's really cool that Yahu can "smell" things in the spiritual. It sounds like he has worked with his gift, and has learned how to use it very effectively.
I agree. I also sometime feel deficiencies for not being able to see into the spiritual realm like a close pastor friend. Granted the ability to see demons on people you have to deal with may be a difficult gift to deal with. Yet, I can sense things that my pastor friend can't. For example, I can smell corruption from demonic doctrine without the spirit behind it being present so I get senses even off written material. My pastor friend would only see when a spirit is directly present without seeing demonic influences not present. So he can't use his gift to determine demonic strongholds built within an individual when that spirit is not present whereas I can.
So we both have discernment of spirits but in different forms that have different strengths and weaknesses. It is when we work in conjunction with the gifts of other individuals you get a more complete picture.
Different members of the body have different functions. It is when we all work together that we become a working body. Unfortunately the church today has the hand doing it's own thing while ignoring input from the eyes, ears, mouth, nose, ...
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