Psychic Abilities

Tobias

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Are they of God, of the Devil, or could they be natural born abilities of Man?


I guess it all depends upon what we define as psychic abilities. Obviously someone who is in the business and takes on the identity of "A Psychic" is using enhanced abilities fueled by spirits that are not in league with God. But there is a big difference between being psychic and being A Psychic. Just like there is a difference between prophesying and being A Prophet. :cool:

There are also quite a number of psychic abilities, which are not necessarily all relate so perhaps the rules don't apply the same to all situations. But just for starters (especially for those who are unfamiliar and don't yet understand what I'm talking about), the major psychic abilities coincide with the 5 physical senses. Those who can see things in the spirit realm are called "clairvoyant." Those who hear things in the spirit realm are "clairaudient". Clairsentience is feeling, and there are others for smelling and tasting. "Clair" meaning "clear", and "voyant" meaning "vision", "audient" meaning "auditory"... I think it's origins are in the French language. There are dozens of others, namely precognizance and claircognizance (knowing the future and knowing facts for no explainable reason), but I think thats a pretty good foundation to get this discussion started.


Personally I think the major psychic abilities are similar to artistic abilities and are natural to Man. Not everybody has them in equal amounts. Artists can relate to musicians and poets, but each of the fine arts are their own thing, and either you have what it takes to make it in those fields or you don't. Same goes for the senses that allow us to perceive things in the spirit realm. On some level they are each an ability and a form of art, and most people that have them operate in more than one, but each is unique in it's own right.

What usually happens though is we are inspired by unseen forces whether we want to or not. Many artists look for their muse, which often times is a spirit that enhances their natural abilities and makes their work stand out. People with psychic abilities do the same. In Church we are taught to listen for the voice of God, so those who see, hear, feel, smell, sense the future, or just know stuff can be influenced accordingly by the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who want to use their abilities for the other side (often without realizing it), might tune their senses in to spirits of the dead, spirit guides, or pagan gods. Go to a church of Spiritualism and they will teach you how to become a medium, which essentially is being a prophet for the dead.

As a musician I have learned how to yield my talent to the HS and allow inspired worship to flow through me. As someone who's clairaudient I have learned how to tune into the voice of my God and be obedient to Him, and how to speak on His behalf to other people. But I have also learned how to hear quite a number of other spirits, some appear to be rather neutral and some are clearly not. But just like when I'm playing guitar, the talent is my own unless I am inspired by other forces.

I guess where I'm making the distinction is the difference between the ability to HEAR God, and yielding to Him. Many hear His call, but few answer. Or on the flip side, hearing spirits and yielding to them instead. For those with the natural born ability, the hearing part happens regardless. But just like everything else in life, we choose whether we submit our talents to God or not.
 

Tobias

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Looking at the Gifts of the Spirit, we see that for the most part they take a human element which is added upon by the Spirit of God. The HS is a Gentleman, and most recognize that He never takes over our bodies to accomplish anything like other spirits might do during a possession. So a person operating in one of the Gifts must use his or her own talent to speak, preach, teach, sing, or whatever to make provision for the HS to move. Even the gift of tongues requires a willing vessel, we must open up our mouths and pump air past our vocal cords.

We know that at anytime God can override the need for human talent. A dumb person could suddenly stand up and prophesy, or a tone deaf person could miraculously step forward with an inspired song. But generally speaking, God uses those with natural abilities to accomplish the bulk of His work. David knew how to sling stones before he fought with Goliath, and it was through his natural skill that the giant was defeated. God didn't suddenly decide to take this shepherd boy and give him the ability to use kung fu (or sword fighting). No, the HS used what He had to work with and accomplished the objective without major interference.

So my point here is that the precedent is set that God uses people according to their natural abilities. He may have to steer us toward them, and train us how to operate in them, but in the end it is we who are skilled in how to use them -- either for the glory of God or not.
 
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jamadan

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Tobias - From your description, I believe your psychic abilities indeed come from demonic powers, as I have stated in the past. Someone who is prophetic, hears from God speaking in their spirit. In fact, most Christians can hear from God speaking to themselves. The prophetic gift is to hear on behalf of others and the Church. It does not also open up your ears to hear demons or other spirits you call 'neutral'. That alone tells me your hearing is coming from a demonic source. The Holy Spirit just doesn't operate that way. Perhaps a good read for you would be Graham Cooke, whose probably the best author on this subject that I've encountered. He has a whole series on the prophetic.
 
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Tobias

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Tobias - From your description, I believe your psychic abilities indeed come from demonic powers, as I have stated in the past.


Yes, you have stated that before in the past. In fact, you are starting to sound like a broken record... :D

My hope was that by having a discussion on the matter I could change your mind. Or we could come to some sort of agreement over the different terminology we seem to be using. But if you are unwilling to engage in any sort of discourse, I suppose it is all a waste of my time.




Do remember, that most of the time when we are teaching people to hear the voice of God for themselves, we caution them that the biggest hurdle is mistaking their own will/inner voice for that of God. Also, most Christians will agree that Satan can also speak to us, pretending to be God.

Are you then suggesting that anytime we hear any other voice besides Gods we are doing so under demonic influence? That we have nothing to worry about, because we will never hear the voice of Satan unless he first possesses us? :confused:
 
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jamadan

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Tobias - I don't need to discourse on it, I know this and am repetitive because the truth doesn't change. We don't "tune our senses", we listen to the Holy Spirit and Him alone. In the other thread, you once again stated what is at the core of the problem. You said something along the lines of Christians trying to figure out ways to tap into or use God's power. That's backwards. It's the Holy Spirit who initiates it and leads us, our job is to follow Him. Jesus said, 'I only do what the Father has shown me' and 'I only say what the Father has told me to say'. That's the right and only paradigm for all of us. For us to approach God to gain a spiritual experience and to make something happen in the supernatural, you leave yourself open to the demonic. I realize this is being taught by some in the charismatic movement, but this is at the root of a growing sin, those who seek after signs and wonders. Demons and angels of light (evil) can do all kinds of things to mimic God and supernatural power. That's why we don't approach things with an open spirit. We approach God with a yielded spirit, ready to do His will, even if it means standing out in the desert for years preaching and baptizing with but a single supernatural event in the entire ministry, when he poured water over his cousins head and heard the voice of God and saw the Spirit of God descend. Many today are not content to simply obey God and let Him worry about when and how to confirm with signs and wonders.
 
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Tobias

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Well jamadan, I set up this thread to address your theory that all psychic abilities are enabled by demons. So far I have presented my case, and think I've proved that your ideas run contrary to scripture. If you can't be bothered to participate, that's not my problem. Now I'll wrap things up by showing just how absurd your position is.


Wandering off from scripture, we are in uncharted territory. Over the years people have developed theories about Satan and demonologies that can give you goosebumps. Some imagine a demon lurking behind every bush, others maintain a theology where Satan is 20 times more powerful than God, but that in the end (somehow) goodness always wins.

These are not scriptural positions to take. If we want to know what the Bible teaches, then we have to stop elevating Christian folklore to the same level as scripture.

The theory presented that I'm taking the time to dispute states that there is indeed a demon lurking behind every bush, figuratively speaking. That all psychic abilities are a sin, and not only that, but it takes a demon to assist you every time you do one.

There is a paranoid demonology which teaches that all sin opens the door for oppression. And for those deep in the throws of battle against an ever present enemy, it does seem true that even minor sins are a setback against their foe. But from what I understand of what Jamadan is saying, when it comes to spiritual stuff you can't even sin without the direct help of a demon.

To me this sounds absurd. It's no different than claiming that all gay people are possessed, because he believes that they cannot have gay relations without demons helping them do it.

Or how about lying? This is another sin mentioned in the Bible. According to this theory you cannot lie in your own strength, but must enlist the help of demons to do so.

I can just imagine someone from the Dark Ages coming to our time and watching a car thief drive away in stolen vehicle. And for them I would excuse this kind of thinking, if they believed a person couldn't drive a car without either the help of God or the possession of demons. The guy after all did steal the car didn't he? So he must be demon possessed to be able to do so, right? :doh: Other people driving by on their way to church must be equally enabled to do so, except by God rather than Satan.

There is no scripture to support a position that states that you must first be possessed with a demon before you can commit a sin. And honestly, there really isn't anything in the Bible specifically put there to refute this idea either. I think the reason for that is because it is just so absurd, that God expects us to use wisdom to rule out the possibility. :cool:
 
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jamadan

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Tobias - I really have no idea how you got there, but that's completely different from what I said. It's not about sinning. It's about whether or not the human spirit has an innate capability for psychic manifestations. Nothing in Scripture nor in my or anyone I know of experience indicates that it does. If you're able to read minds, predict future events, etc, then that capability does not come naturally, there's a demon at the root of it. These demons mimic gifts of the Spirit, but the fruit and operation are vastly different. Scripture affirms that these manifestations are demonically powered.

How you apply this to any other form of sinning, I really don't understand. The only people I know of who even hold to the belief you are espousing are New Agers, thinking ESP is a natural ability or gift of God. They don't recognize that the evil spirits that enable them to astrally project are the same ones who mimic ESP.
 
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Psychics are not everyday people. They should live among everyday people and not brag about extra perception powers. The more they tell normal common people about it, the more dark substance they get. The dark substances gets denser. If the psychics mind their own business and live happily among the regular society, they will increase the white substance in thier body and get closer to the Heavens gate. Otherwise they will have to wait for another 5000 sleepy years to gain what they lost for boasting about their powers. Thats the meaning of God knew you before you were born. A LOT goes on long before birth and long after death.
 
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Tobias

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Psychics are not everyday people. They should live among everyday people and not brag about extra perception powers. The more they tell normal common people about it, the more dark substance they get. The dark substances gets denser. If the psychics mind their own business and live happily among the regular society, they will increase the white substance in thier body and get closer to the Heavens gate. Otherwise they will have to wait for another 5000 sleepy years to gain what they lost for boasting about their powers. Thats the meaning of God knew you before you were born. A LOT goes on long before birth and long after death.



I knew you were going to say that. ;)
 
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Tobias

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Ok, now for the practical application:

If indeed there are a variety of different ways that humans are capable of perceiving the spiritual realm, then how does that work with Christians? So often we speak about "hearing the voice of God", and different people have different opinions on how it happens. This simply could be because there are different senses we use to "hear" Him.

Every morning as far back as I can remember my Dad breaks open the Bible and expects to hear from God. Before uprooting the family and taking us all to the mission field he and my mom prayed and sought direction from God -- by reading the scriptures. When He did speak, He guided their eyes to a passage in 1 Timothy and brought the words to life to the point that there was never any doubt that they were called to do this!

Many people testify that God speaks to them through the Word. But according to my theory this isn't really "hearing" per se. It is probably more likely discernment, the ability to know when something is of God. As I've mentioned in other places, things done and said by the command of God carry His signature of authenticity. Hearing God speak a bunch of words to you (accurately) isn't nearly as easy as reading a passage of scripture and feeling His inspiration (anointing) upon it.

A prophet OTH would most likely be able to hear in the spirit, and accurately put together a paragraph of words spoken to them by the Spirit. Some prophets are Seers, and can not only hear, but also see in the spirit realm. They might see sickness on certain people, or angels and demons at work.

Another ability has to do with "just knowing". This is very useful in the gift of the Spirit called a word of knowledge. But not everything that pops into your spirit in this way is a word of knowledge, only those things where we are told to do something with it. If we are not moved by the Spirit to speak it forth as a "word of knowledge", then it is probably just ... knowledge.


By separating out the differences between that which is God, that which is human, and that which is of satan it adds a whole new depth to my understanding of the Gifts of the Spirit. Perhaps I'm approaching the whole subject backwards and it sounds like I'm making excuses to live with one foot in the world, but really I think I've stumbles onto something, and that there is Godly wisdom to be had in understanding it.
 
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Faulty

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When you see these powers in action in scripture, such as the witch of Endor (1 Sam 28) and the girl in Philipi (Acts 16), they have a demonic origin. Also the occultic practices in Ephesus by yhe converted were repented of and caused the burning of books worth 50,000 silver (Acts 19).

I don't see where there is room to say it is a "human" thing, but rather more likely a demonic generational claim, which is why it seems to run in families.
 
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Tobias

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When you see these powers in action in scripture, such as the witch of Endor (1 Sam 28) and the girl in Philipi (Acts 16), they have a demonic origin. Also the occultic practices in Ephesus by yhe converted were repented of and caused the burning of books worth 50,000 silver (Acts 19).

I don't see where there is room to say it is a "human" thing, but rather more likely a demonic generational claim, which is why it seems to run in families.


There are times when we see these powers in action in scripture, and they are attributed to demonic origins. However, there are a gazillion other times when neither God nor Satan are given credit. For example (off the top of my head...):

Saul first sought out Samuel to see if the prophet could help him find his missing donkeys. Samuel was supposed to somehow "know" where the animals had wandered off to. How? Because God was used to telling him where people's missing animals go? We don't usually consider this passage without writing a complete back story based upon our pet doctrines. But the Bible is not clear on how he did this.

Jesus mentioned that he saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven. "Saw" how? Enabled by the Holy Spirit, or because he was/is God? Or did he just "see" it?

In the wilderness Jesus talked with Satan. He even let Satan take him to the top of the temple, where he was tempted to put God to the test. Are we ever to listen to Satan like Jesus did, and if so, by who's power are we going to accomplish it?


I think that if we first presume that all this stuff is wrong, then we can read our preconceived ideas into the scriptures. But letting the scriptures speak for themselves, they don't say what we've been taught that they say. (IMO, of course!)
 
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Tobias

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Another biblical reference is in the ephod that the priests used in the OT. The ephod was a tool that the priest wore, and was a rectangular thing with twelve precious stones that represented the twelve tribes of Israel.

The practical use for the ephod however, was as a tool for hearing the voice of God. Apparently the priests would ask a question to God, and if the answer was "yes" one of the stones would light us, but if the reply was "no" then a different one would light.

How would they light up? No one really knows. But considering you had to be a priest for it to work, I just imagine that the stone wouldn't really light up physically, but that it would light up in a way that only spiritual eyes could see it. IOW you had to be psychic for it to work!


Read the life of David, and you will see just how important this form of communication was. Many times he called for the priest that was with him, who used the ephod he brought to check in with God.
 
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D2wing

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You are talking about different things as if they are the same. There are the gifts from God that are not fuzzy in origin. Then there is anything else that is not from God. If you know something that is supernatural and it is not direct from God it from a different spirit not of God. You cannot mix the Holy Spirit with spirits not of God. Your idea is not new, it is a common idea of the occult. Whatever you call it, it is for demons to gain entry and is not only wrong but is used to spread deception just as you are trying to do now, whether you know it or not. Satan disguises himself as an Angel of light and benign knowledge.
If you are Christian you turn from entertaining Satan. Point blank you are warned.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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I don't personally believe that there ARE ANY "Psychic Abilities" in humans, and those claiming them are being "Messed with" by external spiritual entities which have the ability to impregnate our minds with suggestions, and thoughts.

Humans like to "think" they have "special paranormal abilities", but all we actually have is spiritual confusion from entities that "get off" leading us around by our noses for their own enjoyment.
 
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now faith

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The Bible teaches us to test the spirits,not all are of God.

It is a snowball effect,the more we dabble in darkness the more authority we give it.

I know we serve a living God who at his will can speak to us.
If we seek God in prayer for wisdom and knowledge by faith he will give it freely.

If you are feeling other spirits in your realm,rebuke them.
The voice of God is unmistakable,the revelation from the Holy Spirit is gentle,and guides us to Christ and his glory.

Deep down you may know the sources of your realm,but may be justifying them for excitement.

If we dabble in the occult,it is a serious offence to the grace of God as a Christian.
We know the fruit of the spirit,we know Gods love,we know the shed blood of Christ.

To turn away from all of this,is very dangerous,and may be blasphemous to the Holy Ghost.
 
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Yahu

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Are they of God, of the Devil, or could they be natural born abilities of Man?

I guess it all depends upon what we define as psychic abilities. Obviously someone who is in the business and takes on the identity of "A Psychic" is using enhanced abilities fueled by spirits that are not in league with God. But there is a big difference between being psychic and being A Psychic. Just like there is a difference between prophesying and being A Prophet. :cool:

This is true. What about being given a 'word of knowledge'? That could be considered a psychic ability. You are receiving knowledge from a spiritual source, it's just that the source should be the Holy Spirit.
 
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Tobias

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This is true. What about being given a 'word of knowledge'? That could be considered a psychic ability. You are receiving knowledge from a spiritual source, it's just that the source should be the Holy Spirit.


Yes, that's right.

There really isn't much difference between someone getting a word of knowledge from the Holy Spirit, and someone getting told some tidbit of information from the Devil. I can't understand how some people make the distinction out to be so drastic.

To me, it's like the difference between hearing a good preacher on the radio, or listening to a liberal talk show host on the same radio but on a different station. In both instances we are listening to a radio. The big difference is in who we are listening to!

Obviously we shouldn't go listening to the Devil. :doh: Only point of this discussion has to do with how we receive the transmission when God speaks to us, so that we can better tune in and maximize our usage of it.
 
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