Prove the Bible

[Insane_Duck]

(In this thread I'm less interested in debating and more interested in getting the information for other reasons.)

What would you say is the strongest evidence for the truth of the claims made in the bible?

Evidence: That which can be used to prove a claim to another person. (must be objective and physical, unless you can definitively prove the existence of the supernatural)

The evidence must be free of logical fallacies (including circular reasoning) as well as subscribe to the above definition of evidence. Please cite sources.

 

[Hentenza]

Thread moved from Life sciences to exploring Christianity.

 

[drich0150]

(In this thread I'm less interested in debating and more interested in getting the information for other reasons.)

What would you say is the strongest evidence for the bible?

Evidence: That which can be used to prove a claim to another person. (must be objective and physical, unless you can definitively prove the existence of the supernatural)

The evidence must be free of logical fallacies (including circular reasoning) as well as subscribe to the above definition of evidence. Please cite sources.

Prove what about the bible?

then answer why?

The bible unlike your assertion/challenge is not "forcing" anyone to believe or do anything.

 

[Yekcidmij]

(In this thread I'm less interested in debating and more interested in getting the information for other reasons.)

What would you say is the strongest evidence for the bible?

The bible is a collection of books by many authors over a long span of time. Your topic makes as much sense to me as saying, "prove the library".

 

[Insane_Duck]

The bible is a collection of books by many authors over a long span of time. Your topic makes as much sense to me as saying, "prove the library".

I have a feeling you know exactly what I'm talking about. Anyhow I've fixed if for you.

 

[AlexBP]

What would you say is the strongest evidence for the truth of the claims made in the bible?

The fact that vast numbers of people have experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit and the love of Jesus Christ. (You may say this is not "objective and physical" but the testimony of those people is.)

 

[Insane_Duck]

The fact that vast numbers of people have experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit and the love of Jesus Christ. (You may say this is not "objective and physical" but the testimony of those people is.)

Can you provide a testimony?

And no, this wouldn't qualify as objective, but I'm willing to take what I can get. I need to present this with a fair amount of actual sway, so some actual evidence is needed.

 

[Biker Angel]

Can you provide a testimony?

And no, this wouldn't qualify as objective, but I'm willing to take what I can get. I need to present this with a fair amount of actual sway, so some actual evidence is needed.

If you had the evidence what exactly would you do with it and who would you present it to?

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Can you provide a testimony?

And no, this wouldn't qualify as objective, but I'm willing to take what I can get. I need to present this with a fair amount of actual sway, so some actual evidence is needed.

(tongue in cheek) I submit the testimony for the Buddha and the historical evidence for the existence of Sidartha Guatama during a time period around 400-500 B.C. Obviously this makes Buddhism true.

 

[Insane_Duck]

If you had the evidence what exactly would you do with it and who would you present it to?

I'm a high school debater. I'm trying to make a case based on biblical literalism, as a pet project more than anything. (this sort of thing has come up before and it's interesting for the opposition to try and disprove their own bible) But I need some sort of evidence for me to even start to put a case together, and I haven't been able to find any.

 

[maizer]

(In this thread I'm less interested in debating and more interested in getting the information for other reasons.)

What would you say is the strongest evidence for the truth of the claims made in the bible?

Evidence: That which can be used to prove a claim to another person. (must be objective and physical, unless you can definitively prove the existence of the supernatural)

The evidence must be free of logical fallacies (including circular reasoning) as well as subscribe to the above definition of evidence. Please cite sources.

Well I'd cite the countless number of folks I've seen who I've seen slowly change into more loving, peaceful, joyful people. Relationships healed, sadness shared, joy given, etc etc. I don't think this will count towards the scientific, logical proof you are looking for, through.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Well I'd cite the countless number of folks I've seen who I've seen slowly change into more loving, peaceful, joyful people. Relationships healed, sadness shared, joy given, etc etc. I don't think this will count towards the scientific, logical proof you are looking for, through.

Don't all religions claim the same thing? (I'd imagine many eastern religions have an even greater claim to this)

Is this the only reason you are a Christian? Surely there's something else.

 

[maizer]

Don't all religions claim the same thing? (I'd imagine many eastern religions have an even greater claim to this)

Is this the only reason you are a Christian? Surely there's something else.

Really? Not to be arrogant, but which religions claim the spread of love, joy, peace, grace and forgiveness as much as Christianity, may I ask? Though I admit there are those who are only interested in dogma and restrictions. By the way, I have spent much time in the east, and know many family and friends in these 'eastern religions' as well.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Really? Not to be arrogant, but which religions claim the spread of love, joy, peace, grace and forgiveness as much as Christianity, may I ask? By the way, I have spent much time in the east, and know many family and friends in these 'eastern religions' as well.

Problem 1. Social change beyond being relative to the values of the culture within which the change takes place is not indicative itself of metaphysical fact.

Problem 2. Your followup comment is a value judgement, and there for subjective in nature.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Really? Not to be arrogant, but which religions claim the spread of love, joy, peace, grace and forgiveness as much as Christianity, may I ask? Though I admit there are those who are only interested in dogma and restrictions. By the way, I have spent much time in the east, and know many family and friends in these 'eastern religions' as well.

They wouldn't use that rhetoric, but I'd imagine both Buddhism (not all sects) and Islam claim the same.

 

[maizer]

Problem 1. Social change beyond being relative to the values of the culture within which the change takes place is not indicative itself of metaphysical fact.

Problem 2. Your followup comment is a value judgement, and there for subjective in nature.

1. I agree, it is not proof.

2. I agree, it is subjective. When it comes to God, faith, and humanity, there is very little that is absolute.

Then the question may be, is my subjective evidence and knowledge enough to explore or reject the Bible? I guess I am on one side of the tipping point and you are on the other.

 

[Faulty]

I'm a high school debater. I'm trying to make a case based on biblical literalism, as a pet project more than anything. (this sort of thing has come up before and it's interesting for the opposition to try and disprove their own bible) But I need some sort of evidence for me to even start to put a case together, and I haven't been able to find any.

Do some research on fulfilled prophecy, not only the over 100 fulfulled in the life of Jesus, but also those predicting the rise of specific empires, the naming of the person who would let the Jews rebuild after their captivity (really, Cyrus ws called by name to do this more than a century before he was even born), the foretold historical fall of Trye and Sidon, the description of Alexander the Great in Daniel, which when shown to him actually saved Jerusalem from being sacked, the Daniel 9 "70 weeks" prophecy which told of the tie when Jesus would enter Jerusalem as king during crucifixion week on the exact day, etc... Fulfilled prophecy is all over the scriptures.

Then do some research on the science of the Bible, currents in the sea, round earth hanging on nothing, etc..., the prophets knew much long before modern science ever caught up with some of it.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Do some research on fulfilled prophecy, not only the over 100 fulfulled in the life of Jesus, but also those predicting the rise of specific empires, the naming of the person who would let the Jews rebuild after their captivity (really, Cyrus ws called by name to do this more than a century before he was even born), the foretold historical fall of Trye and Sidon, the description of Alexander the Great in Daniel, which when shown to him actually saved Jerusalem from being sacked, the Daniel 9 "70 weeks" prophecy which told of the tie when Jesus would enter Jerusalem as king during crucifixion week on the exact day, etc... Fulfilled prophecy is all over the scriptures.

Then do some research on the science of the Bible, currents in the sea, round earth hanging on nothing, etc..., the prophets knew much long before modern science ever caught up with some of it.

I'll look into the fulfilled prophecies again I guess...

The problem is that the authors of the NT took what they knew from hearsay which had a perfect chance to adopt OT prophecies. It's like a 35 year old game of telephone in an uneducated and divided part of the world. And the story would get grander every time.

Have the OT predictions been proven to have been written down before the events they predict? That would be a good place to start.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

is my subjective evidence and knowledge enough to explore or reject the Bible? I guess I am on one side of the tipping point and you are on the other.

1. You are making a poor assumption about me.

2. Your question is poorly worded. Your "subjective evidence" is not evidence. It's a value judgement expressing a personal preference for socially beneficial behavior within a culture that is in some large degree, if not entirely Judeo/Christian dominated. Not that such a thing homogenously exists but you could spend a lifetime of research and writing books on the subject of different cultural influences at various degrees of social constructs(the person, immediate family, neighborhoods,cities,etc) and not exhaust the material to be discussed.

In short, you are simply expressing a preference. This is no more evidence than "I like football." is evidence for the nature of atoms.

 

[maizer]

They wouldn't use that rhetoric, but I'd imagine both Buddhism (not all sects) and Islam claim the same.

I used to think so as well, but I think an up close study of each religion would be very interesting.

Then what do we have left to judge? If many religions claim the same, then all we can do is judge the actions of the believers. Do they walk the talk?

Every religion has its bad apples, but wouldn't a logical intellectual human be able to avoid making a sweeping generalization, and truly be able to see into the hearts of the believers, given enough time and effort?