Is Mary the Woman in Revelation 12?

[NotUrAvgGuy]

I see you are on the right track, but I want to add this in for you....

Yet it also alludes to her being protected from evil.

So what is evil?

Why does our body become dust, corrupted?
Because original sin.

In the Old Testament St Michael does not allow the body of Moses to become corrupted by evil.
His body disappeared.

Our lady is protected from the dragon - aka decomposing corruption.
Therefore; she rose to Heaven.


Revelation 12:

4 cHis tail drew a third dof the stars of heaven eand threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood fbefore the woman who was ready to give birth, gto devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child hwho was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was icaught up to God and His throne. 6 Then jthe woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there kone thousand two hundred and sixty days.


In fact, if we divide the number of days by 365 it could be quite telling how long after Jesus went to Heaven His Mother joined Him Bodily.
Because Heaven is prepared by God.

According to Deuteronomy 34:6, Moses died and was buried. What you refer to with Michael occurs in Jude 1:9. Satan had some dispute over what should happen with the body of Moses. Perhaps he was hoping to use it to lead some to idolatry by making his burial place a shrine. We are told in which valley he was buried but are told the grave was not marked to prevent such idolatry. That is not the same as saying his body disappeared nor does it imply he was taken up to heaven or preserved from bodily decay. We are not told explicitly what Satan's argument was but whatever it was he lost the argument. What we do know is that Moses died and was buried. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.

The woman pictured in Revelation 12 is the church, not Mary. There is no support in Scripture for the belief that Mary did not die and was taken up into heaven. We are all going to receive a new and more glorious body. There would be no slight in having Mary's body buried and decaying as in heaven we will eventually get new bodies. For all we know, Enoch and Elijah are already in their new bodies in heaven as the rest of us will be oneday. To claim Mary's body was preserved from decay is speculation and not found in Scripture.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

AS previously stated, she was rarely mentioned by name.
The Lord's Church kept the truth intact.
Even St John, when wishing to speak face to face, or in person he would not mention her in any writing, though she was under his charge to care for.

It is not that she was unnecessary, or ignored, but rather as SHE SAID - she was venerated. Venerable. To be regarded as holy.
When one is venerated, you do not go against their virtue of humility and simplicity.

AND in the beginning in the years of the Apostles, much was left coded because if the messenger was caught and arrested, they did not wish the author to be necessarily known nor the Lord's Mother.

It's not they did not regard her, but regarded and protected her very well.

AND this is exactly why 'Babylon' was CODE for Rome.
They knew the chances of interception were real.

There is no evidence anything was coded. Revelation is full of symbology which is different than something being in code.

 

[FaithT]

According to Deuteronomy 34:6, Moses died and was buried. What you refer to with Michael occurs in Jude 1:9. Satan had some dispute over what should happen with the body of Moses. Perhaps he was hoping to use it to lead some to idolatry by making his burial place a shrine. We are told in which valley he was buried but are told the grave was not marked to prevent such idolatry. That is not the same as saying his body disappeared nor does it imply he was taken up to heaven or preserved from bodily decay. We are not told explicitly what Satan's argument was but whatever it was he lost the argument. What we do know is that Moses died and was buried. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.

The woman pictured in Revelation 12 is the church, not Mary. There is no support in Scripture for the belief that Mary did not die and was taken up into heaven. We are all going to receive a new and more glorious body. There would be no slight in having Mary's body buried and decaying as in heaven we will eventually get new bodies. For all we know, Enoch and Elijah are already in their new bodies in heaven as the rest of us will be oneday. To claim Mary's body was preserved from decay is speculation and not found in Scripture.

Remember you are on a Catholic forum.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

Remember you are on a Catholic forum.

So you only want comments that completely agree with the Catholic perspective? I am an ex-Catholic. Are you closed to other ideas?

 

[Michie]

So you only want comments that completely agree with the Catholic perspective? I am an ex-Catholic. Are you closed to other ideas?

Read the rules of the forum here. You are not allowed to go against Catholic teaching or debate here. All faith groups have safe havens. You are in the Catholic one now.

 

[FaithT]

So you only want comments that completely agree with the Catholic perspective? I am an ex-Catholic. Are you closed to other ideas?

There are other sub forums you can post your opinions on if they go against Catholic teaching.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

There are other sub forums you can post your opinions on if they go against Catholic teaching.

My mistake. I apologize and will not continue this thread.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The woman pictured in Revelation 12 is the church, not Mary.

When did the church give birth to a male child ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

When did the church give birth to a male child ?

Whoops - sorry I continued the dialogue...

 

[Michie]

Whoops - sorry I continued the dialogue...

That’s okay Carl. People can always come to fellowship.

 

[Jan001]

I think Prophesy can have several fulfilments as circumstances repeat.

I agree, but the subsequent fulfillments are not exactly like the first one,

 

[Carl Emerson]

The whole giving birth... and evil waiting [and then crucifying Him]
Is not a country.

It's evident

Yes correct, it may however be a people. Jesus is a Jew.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Yes correct, it may however be a people. Jesus is a Jew.

The dragon is usually representative of evil. Leviathan.

1. The sea monster Leviathan, which is known from the Old Testament, is also attested in the book of Revelation. The red dragon of Rev 12:3 evokes reminiscences of Leviathan from the prophecies of Isaiah 27:1, Ezekial 29:3 and 32:2.

 

[WarriorAngel]

What is the place prepared?

Heaven.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The dragon is usually representative of evil. Leviathan.

1. The sea monster Leviathan, which is known from the Old Testament, is also attested in the book of Revelation. The red dragon of Rev 12:3 evokes reminiscences of Leviathan from the prophecies of Isaiah 27:1, Ezekial 29:3 and 32:2.

I think we are talking cross purposes.

I have not claimed what you feel need to correct.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Moses was not taken to heaven. He was buried. Why God took Enoch and Elijah to heaven, we aren't told. Why not John the Baptist? Why not any of the Apostles? Why not Abraham? Only God knows but it wasn't a matter of worthiness. It is pure speculation that Mary was taken up into heaven. John, whom Jesus left Mary in the care of, lived the longest of the apostles. It is believed he wrote his epistles between 85 and 100 AD along with Revelation. He makes no mention of Mary or her being taken up into heaven. That doesn't prove she wasn't but nothing proves she was. There were many speculations regarding Mary in the early church. That does not make it on par with Scripture. The authors of Scripture were moved by the Holy Spirit. They did not need oral tradition. I don't think Moses knew all the details of Genesis by oral tradition. He was moved by the Holy Spirit who brought those details to mind.

St Jude 1

8 In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. 9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee [Jude 1:9] 10 But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.


What is corruption of the body, well it is common knowledge, decay.
Moses did not decay because evil was rebuked.

We are not told where his body was... but curious how he appeared like Elijah with Jesus at the transfiguration.
If man knew not where he was buried, they know not if he was eventually led to Heaven.

But again, how is he speaking to Jesus in bright luminous light at the transfiguration?
It could be foretelling, yes.
or it could be a mystery if he was eventually taken.
For the body was not left to decay.