Preachers supporting Israel

[truthpls]

Please read your bible. You need to study bible from cover to cover if you want the truth. Bible tells you what Israel people are to God and gives you understanding what this whole conflict is about.

Sorry you do not know what you are talking about. Israel will go through the tribulation and only then will they accept Jesus and be restored by God. Not before. THAT is the bible

Don’t believe what people say because “whole world knows”. Youtube and internet is full of “whole world knows” facts that make you believe anything you want.

I guess we should get you to pick what is true or not?

 

[Pekka]

Jesus is truth and bible is word of God

 

[Aussie Pete]

Who was responsible for Yemen being a destination for tourist ships? Yemen has been an Islamic country for centuries.

The British were responsible for Yemen pretty much from WW2 to the 60's. Cruise ships used to stop there after the journey down the Red Sea. There was a massive oil refinery there. It was one of the world's busiest ports. This was a few years before ME oil producers realised the power they wielded. The British pulled out. Egypt was playing America off against Russia. Russia promised more to Egypt and so won that round. Russians moved into Aden and the Suez canal was shut for a time. That's when supertankers became the norm. I met someone who was on a cruise ship that stopped off at Aden once the canal was reopened. They said that it was a waste of time. There was little left of the thriving businesses that used to cater to tourism. I forgot to mention that Aden was duty free. My family lived like royalty while we were there. Everything was dirt cheap and my dad was paid an overseas allowance. My mother worked for the Sheik of Yemen and was driven from home and back in a limo. We had a servant! The weather was amazing. It rained once a year, maybe. It was hot in summer but milder at other times. Certainly no worse than parts of Australia.

Yes, it was Muslim. There were many Indians and Chinese also. Some Muslims resented us, especially prior to the withdrawal of the British.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sorry you do not know what you are talking about. Israel will go through the tribulation and only then will they accept Jesus and be restored by God. Not before. THAT is the bible

Where is that in the Bible? St. Paul says in Romans that he desires his unbelieving kinsmen to believe the Gospel; and he speaks of "all Israel" being saved--but he doesn't provide any details about how he sees that happening, but this is his hope.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

Where is that in the Bible? St. Paul says in Romans that he desires his unbelieving kinsmen to believe the Gospel; and he speaks of "all Israel" being saved--but he doesn't provide any details about how he sees that happening, but this is his hope.

-CryptoLutheran

Everywhere that I recall it mentioned He brings them back one day. Then He will 'be their God' and bless them, restore them, protect them etc etc. Paul does provide the detail that ALL Israel will be saved. The only time that happens in prophesy is when Israel sees Him whom they pierced and is sorry.

 

[Merrill]

The whole "Christian Zionism" thing is as heretical as it is politically toxic imho

The "new and everlasting covenant" (Matthew 26:28) makes it clear that the new kingdom is the church (body of Christ) and not the nation of the Jews.

Dispensationalism, as others here have pointed out, is just wrong, and this idea that there will be some new Kingdom of Israel before final judgment is not Biblical.

For Christians and conservatives in the US to throw in their hat with the Israeli ethnostate (and that is what it is), and to act as apologists for all the wrongdoings of that country, would be like the Apostles of Jesus going to work for the Pharisees while preaching Christ's message, or raising funds to fight the Romans.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Everywhere that I recall it mentioned He brings them back one day. Then He will 'be their God' and bless them, restore them, protect them etc etc. Paul does provide the detail that ALL Israel will be saved. The only time that happens in prophesy is when Israel sees Him whom they pierced and is sorry.

I'm hopeful that salvation shall come.

I just don't see anything in the Scriptures that suggests a national Israel that will go through a future tribulation. The Lord Jesus in the Olivet Discourse spoke of many things which would come to pass within the decades after His resurrection and ascension. Which culminated in the destruction of the Temple. And Scripture speaks of periods of tribulation, Jesus Himself told His Church, "In this world you will have tribulation, but be courageous, for I have conquered the world".

My general issue here is that in modern times there's been this whole cottage industry that has emerged involving "Biblical Prophecy" and a myriad experts offering a myriad more sets of systems, predictions, and whole end-time diagrams.

God has it all figured out.

I don't think we should put any faith into any of "end times" systems. The only things we should hold firm to are those which are central to our faith, as laid out in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds: Christ will come again in judgment, the dead shall be raised, Christ reigns forever, and there will be life everlasting in the Age to Come.

Which is why I think it important to challenge certain assumptions about "end times" stuff.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

The whole "Christian Zionism" thing is as heretical as it is politically toxic imho

The "new and everlasting covenant" (Matthew 26:28) makes it clear that the new kingdom is the church (body of Christ) and not the nation of the Jews.

Dispensationalism, as others here have pointed out, is just wrong, and this idea that there will be some new Kingdom of Israel before final judgment is not Biblical.

For Christians and conservatives in the US to throw in their hat with the Israeli ethnostate (and that is what it is), and to act as apologists for all the wrongdoings of that country, would be like the Apostles of Jesus going to work for the Pharisees while preaching Christ's message, or raising funds to fight the Romans.

I am not sure that is what dispensationalism is. There will be a saved nation of Israel after Jesus returns. Not before. They must be saved like everyone else before getting the promised blessings.

 

[truthpls]

I'm hopeful that salvation shall come.

I just don't see anything in the Scriptures that suggests a national Israel that will go through a future tribulation. The Lord Jesus in the Olivet Discourse spoke of many things which would come to pass within the decades after His resurrection and ascension. Which culminated in the destruction of the Temple. And Scripture speaks of periods of tribulation, Jesus Himself told His Church, "In this world you will have tribulation, but be courageous, for I have conquered the world".

My general issue here is that in modern times there's been this whole cottage industry that has emerged involving "Biblical Prophecy" and a myriad experts offering a myriad more sets of systems, predictions, and whole end-time diagrams.

God has it all figured out.

I don't think we should put any faith into any of "end times" systems. The only things we should hold firm to are those which are central to our faith, as laid out in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds: Christ will come again in judgment, the dead shall be raised, Christ reigns forever, and there will be life everlasting in the Age to Come.

Which is why I think it important to challenge certain assumptions about "end times" stuff.

-CryptoLutheran

Israel will be here and invaded etc etc in the end according to prophesy and we can be certain of that. They will need to flee from Jerusalem for example when they see something in the holy place. They will see Him whom they pierced..etc

 

[Jermayn]

Many preachers are gung ho supporting Israel as if God supports the killing of civilians in Gaza. My opinion is that Israel is now in unbelief and rebellion against God, and will not be eligible for the blessing and protection of God until they get saved in the end. So I find is shameful that otherwise excellent preachers support terrorism and mass murder from Israel. Maybe someone can defend them?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of both Gaza and Israel are either Muslim, Jewish (practicing the religion), or atheists. I'm not up to speed on the conflict going on there, so I will refrain from commenting on what side is to blame for the mess they are currently in. I pray for peace because we have Christians brothers and sisters on both sides of the conflict that are dying and because I don't want to see even the lost killing each other. My issue with people who are hyper-supportive of Israel is that they can sometimes come off as if you must also be hyper-supportive of Israel or you're not a true Christian.

First of all, I don't support people who reject Jesus Christ, including Jews (the religious group, not a blanket statement of the ethnic group as there are ethnic Jews who are Christians).

Second, if you believe there is an additional requirement for salvation besides faith in Jesus Christ alone (ie. supporting Israel in anything they do), I am scared for you because you obviously aren't fully confident in the sacrifice he made to cover your sins.

 

[brakelite]

I fully sympathize with your position, the false Christian Zionism movement and false Dispensationalists eschatology has a strong foothold in denominational circles today. Many were bought and sold on these false doctrines hook, line, and sinker.

Even worse, is the hold Christian Zionism and dispensationalism has on American foreign policy.

 

[truthpls]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of both Gaza and Israel are either Muslim, Jewish (practicing the religion), or atheists. I'm not up to speed on the conflict going on there, so I will refrain from commenting on what side is to blame for the mess they are currently in. I pray for peace because we have Christians brothers and sisters on both sides of the conflict that are dying and because I don't want to see even the lost killing each other. My issue with people who are hyper-supportive of Israel is that they can sometimes come off as if you must also be hyper-supportive of Israel or you're not a true Christian.

Yes, they do that

First of all, I don't support people who reject Jesus Christ, including Jews (the religious group, not a blanket statement of the ethnic group as there are ethnic Jews who are Christians).

Second, if you believe there is an additional requirement for salvation besides faith in Jesus Christ alone (ie. supporting Israel in anything they do), I am scared for you because you obviously aren't fully confident in the sacrifice he made to cover your sins.

Exactly. Besides that, preachers that support Israel are partners in blame for the terrorism going on. That is a reproach to the cause as far as I am concerned

 

[ViaCrucis]

Israel will be here and invaded etc etc in the end according to prophesy and we can be certain of that. They will need to flee from Jerusalem for example when they see something in the holy place. They will see Him whom they pierced..etc

Jesus said that His followers should flee the city (they did, Eusebius records this in his histories), when armies were encamped around it, the abomination that causes desolation happened when the Temple was desecrated by the Sicarii. Etc.

That already happened, Jesus' words were fulfilled nearly two thousand years ago during the First Jewish-Roman War. There's no reason to believe that what Jesus said would befall Jerusalem and its Temple is still yet future, it's already fulfilled prophecy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

Jesus said that His followers should flee the city (they did, Eusebius records this in his histories), when armies were encamped around it, the abomination that causes desolation happened when the Temple was desecrated by the Sicarii. Etc.

There were times Jerusalem was attacked and when people did need to flee. That was not the time spoken about by Daniel. It is THEN that they will need to flee. Not for thousands of years but for a certain number of days - till He returns.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There were times Jerusalem was attacked and when people did need to flee. That was not the time spoken about by Daniel. It is THEN that they will need to flee. Not for thousands of years but for a certain number of days - till He returns.

What Daniel was talking about occurred before Jesus, during the Syrian Wars, in the sixth war the Seleucids, under Antiochus IV, Judea was occupied by the Seleucids, and Antiochus engaged in forced Hellenization upon the Jews. Forbidding them to practice their religion among other horrible things. The worst was when Antiochus had a pig sacrificed in the Temple in honor of Zeus--this abominable act is what helped spark the Maccabean Revolt, which ultimately liberated the Jews from foreign occupation--at least for a time. Under Pompey the Romans came in, got rid of the Hasmoneans and instated the Herodian dynasty which we read about in the New Testament.

The abomination that causes desolation in Daniel was the desecration of the Temple. Jesus points to this abominable desecration in Daniel, and says when the Temple is desecrated again, that's the sign to look out for. When the Sicarri occupied Jerusalem, they murdered the priests, including the high priest, who were serving in the Temple at that time, the Holy of Holies was desecrated, blood stained the entire sacred structure. Again, that happened nearly two millennia ago.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

What Daniel was talking about occurred before Jesus, during the Syrian Wars, in the sixth war the Seleucids, under Antiochus IV, Judea was occupied by the Seleucids, and Antiochus engaged in forced Hellenization upon the Jews. Forbidding them to practice their religion among other horrible things. The worst was when Antiochus had a pig sacrificed in the Temple in honor of Zeus--this abominable act is what helped spark the Maccabean Revolt, which ultimately liberated the Jews from foreign occupation--at least for a time. Under Pompey the Romans came in, got rid of the Hasmoneans and instated the Herodian dynasty which we read about in the New Testament.

The abomination that causes desolation in Daniel was the desecration of the Temple. Jesus points to this abominable desecration in Daniel, and says when the Temple is desecrated again, that's the sign to look out for. When the Sicarri occupied Jerusalem, they murdered the priests, including the high priest, who were serving in the Temple at that time, the Holy of Holies was desecrated, blood stained the entire sacred structure. Again, that happened nearly two millennia ago.

-CryptoLutheran

What Daniel talked about was a precisely timed period after which Jesus returns to earth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What Daniel talked about was a precisely timed period after which Jesus returns to earth.

I don't see any reason to believe this when the historical context for Daniel and what Daniel was talking about is well attested. Compare the things Daniel says about the "king of the north" against the "king of the south", the abomination that causes desolation, etc with what we see written in 1 Maccabees:

"When Antiochus had firmly established himself as king, he decided to conquer Egypt and rule that country as well as Syria. He invaded Egypt with a large fleet of ships and a powerful army, including chariots, elephants, and cavalry. When the attack came, King Ptolemy of Egypt turned and fled, and many of his soldiers were killed. Antiochus was able to capture the fortified cities of Egypt and plunder the whole land.

In the year 143, after the conquest of Egypt, Antiochus marched with a great army against the land of Israel and the city of Jerusalem. In his arrogance, he entered the Temple and took away the gold altar, the lampstand with all its equipment, the table for the bread offered to the Lord, the cups and bowls, the gold fire pans, the curtain, and the crowns. He also stripped all the gold from the front of the Temple and carried off the silver and gold and everything else of value, including all the treasures that he could find stored there. Then he took it all to his own country. He had also murdered many people and boasted arrogantly about it. There was great mourning everywhere in the land of Israel.

Rulers and leaders groaned in sorrow.
Young men and young women grew weak.
The beauty of our women faded.
Every bridegroom sang a funeral song,
and every bride sat mourning in her room.
All our people were clothed with shame,
and our land trembled for them.

Two years later Antiochus sent a large army from Mysia against the towns of Judea. When the soldiers entered Jerusalem, their commander spoke to the people, offering them terms of peace and completely deceiving them. Then he suddenly launched a fierce attack on the city, dealing it a major blow and killing many of the people. He plundered the city, set it on fire, and tore down its buildings and walls. He and his army took the women and children as prisoners and seized the cattle.

Then Antiochus and his forces built high walls and strong towers in the area north of the Temple, turning it into a fort. They brought in a group of traitorous Jews and installed them there. They also brought in arms and supplies and stored in the fort all the loot that they had taken in Jerusalem. This fort became a great threat to the city.

The fort was a threat to the Temple,
a constant, evil menace for Israel.
Innocent people were murdered around the altar;
the Holy Place was defiled by murderers.
The people of Jerusalem fled in fear,
and the city became a colony of foreigners.
Jerusalem was foreign to its own people,
who had been forced to abandon the city.
Her Temple was as empty as a wilderness;
her festivals were turned into days of mourning,
her Sabbath joy into shame.
Her honor became an object of ridicule.
Her shame was as great as her former glory,
and her pride was turned into deepest mourning.

Antiochus now issued a decree that all nations in his empire should abandon their own customs and become one people. All the Gentiles and even many of the Israelites submitted to this decree. They adopted the official pagan religion, offered sacrifices to idols, and no longer observed the Sabbath.

The king also sent messengers with a decree to Jerusalem and all the towns of Judea, ordering the people to follow customs that were foreign to the country. He ordered them not to offer burnt offerings, grain offerings, or wine offerings in the Temple, and commanded them to treat Sabbaths and festivals as ordinary work days. They were even ordered to defile the Temple and the holy things in it. They were commanded to build pagan altars, temples, and shrines, and to sacrifice pigs and other unclean animals there. They were forbidden to circumcise their sons and were required to make themselves ritually unclean in every way they could, so that they would forget the Law which the Lord had given through Moses and would disobey all its commands. The penalty for disobeying the king's decree was death.

The king not only issued the same decree throughout his whole empire, but he also appointed officials to supervise the people and commanded each town in Judea to offer pagan sacrifices. Many of the Jews were ready to forsake the Law and to obey these officials. They defiled the land with their evil, and their conduct forced all true Israelites to hide wherever they could.

On the fifteenth day of the month of Kislev in the year 145, King Antiochus set up The Awful Horror on the altar of the Temple, and pagan altars were built in the towns throughout Judea. Pagan sacrifices were offered in front of houses and in the streets. Any books of the Law which were found were torn up and burned, and anyone who was caught with a copy of the sacred books or who obeyed the Law was put to death by order of the king. Month after month these wicked people used their power against the Israelites caught in the towns.

On the twenty-fifth of the month, these same evil people offered sacrifices on the pagan altar erected on top of the altar in the Temple. Mothers who had allowed their babies to be circumcised were put to death in accordance with the king's decree. Their babies were hung around their necks, and their families and those who had circumcised them were put to death. But many people in Israel firmly resisted the king's decree and refused to eat food that was ritually unclean. They preferred to die rather than break the holy covenant and eat unclean food—and many did die. In his anger God made Israel suffer terribly." - 1 Maccabees 1:16-64

The above translation renders שיקוץ משומם as "The Awful Horror", literally "desolating abomination"; compare with Daniel 9:27 which uses שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם "abomination that makes desolation".

It is talking about a desecration of the Temple, an abominable act that desecrates the Temple.

Daniel 9:27 and 1 Maccabees 1:54 refer to the same event.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

I don't see any reason to believe this when the historical context for Daniel and what Daniel was talking about is well attested. Compare the things Daniel says about the "king of the north" against the "king of the south", the abomination that causes desolation, etc with what we see written in 1 Maccabees:

"When Antiochus had firmly established himself as king, he decided to conquer Egypt and rule that country as well as Syria. He invaded Egypt with a large fleet of ships and a powerful army, including chariots, elephants, and cavalry. When the attack came, King Ptolemy of Egypt turned and fled, and many of his soldiers were killed. Antiochus was able to capture the fortified cities of Egypt and plunder the whole land.

In the year 143, after the conquest of Egypt, Antiochus marched with a great army against the land of Israel and the city of Jerusalem. In his arrogance, he entered the Temple and took away the gold altar, the lampstand with all its equipment, the table for the bread offered to the Lord, the cups and bowls, the gold fire pans, the curtain, and the crowns. He also stripped all the gold from the front of the Temple and carried off the silver and gold and everything else of value, including all the treasures that he could find stored there. Then he took it all to his own country. He had also murdered many people and boasted arrogantly about it. There was great mourning everywhere in the land of Israel.

Rulers and leaders groaned in sorrow.
Young men and young women grew weak.
The beauty of our women faded.
Every bridegroom sang a funeral song,
and every bride sat mourning in her room.
All our people were clothed with shame,
and our land trembled for them.

Two years later Antiochus sent a large army from Mysia against the towns of Judea. When the soldiers entered Jerusalem, their commander spoke to the people, offering them terms of peace and completely deceiving them. Then he suddenly launched a fierce attack on the city, dealing it a major blow and killing many of the people. He plundered the city, set it on fire, and tore down its buildings and walls. He and his army took the women and children as prisoners and seized the cattle.

Then Antiochus and his forces built high walls and strong towers in the area north of the Temple, turning it into a fort. They brought in a group of traitorous Jews and installed them there. They also brought in arms and supplies and stored in the fort all the loot that they had taken in Jerusalem. This fort became a great threat to the city.

The fort was a threat to the Temple,
a constant, evil menace for Israel.
Innocent people were murdered around the altar;
the Holy Place was defiled by murderers.
The people of Jerusalem fled in fear,
and the city became a colony of foreigners.
Jerusalem was foreign to its own people,
who had been forced to abandon the city.
Her Temple was as empty as a wilderness;
her festivals were turned into days of mourning,
her Sabbath joy into shame.
Her honor became an object of ridicule.
Her shame was as great as her former glory,
and her pride was turned into deepest mourning.

Antiochus now issued a decree that all nations in his empire should abandon their own customs and become one people. All the Gentiles and even many of the Israelites submitted to this decree. They adopted the official pagan religion, offered sacrifices to idols, and no longer observed the Sabbath.

The king also sent messengers with a decree to Jerusalem and all the towns of Judea, ordering the people to follow customs that were foreign to the country. He ordered them not to offer burnt offerings, grain offerings, or wine offerings in the Temple, and commanded them to treat Sabbaths and festivals as ordinary work days. They were even ordered to defile the Temple and the holy things in it. They were commanded to build pagan altars, temples, and shrines, and to sacrifice pigs and other unclean animals there. They were forbidden to circumcise their sons and were required to make themselves ritually unclean in every way they could, so that they would forget the Law which the Lord had given through Moses and would disobey all its commands. The penalty for disobeying the king's decree was death.

The king not only issued the same decree throughout his whole empire, but he also appointed officials to supervise the people and commanded each town in Judea to offer pagan sacrifices. Many of the Jews were ready to forsake the Law and to obey these officials. They defiled the land with their evil, and their conduct forced all true Israelites to hide wherever they could.

On the fifteenth day of the month of Kislev in the year 145, King Antiochus set up The Awful Horror on the altar of the Temple, and pagan altars were built in the towns throughout Judea. Pagan sacrifices were offered in front of houses and in the streets. Any books of the Law which were found were torn up and burned, and anyone who was caught with a copy of the sacred books or who obeyed the Law was put to death by order of the king. Month after month these wicked people used their power against the Israelites caught in the towns.

On the twenty-fifth of the month, these same evil people offered sacrifices on the pagan altar erected on top of the altar in the Temple. Mothers who had allowed their babies to be circumcised were put to death in accordance with the king's decree. Their babies were hung around their necks, and their families and those who had circumcised them were put to death. But many people in Israel firmly resisted the king's decree and refused to eat food that was ritually unclean. They preferred to die rather than break the holy covenant and eat unclean food—and many did die. In his anger God made Israel suffer terribly." - 1 Maccabees 1:16-64

The above translation renders שיקוץ משומם as "The Awful Horror", literally "desolating abomination"; compare with Daniel 9:27 which uses שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם "abomination that makes desolation".

It is talking about a desecration of the Temple, an abominable act that desecrates the Temple.

Daniel 9:27 and 1 Maccabees 1:54 refer to the same event.

-CryptoLutheran

Except Jesus spoke about Daniel's prophesy.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Matthew 24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:


Matthew 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


Matthew 24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!


Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Matthew 24:25
Behold, I have told you before.


Matthew 24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Matthew 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Matthew 24:28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Matthew 24:29


Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That did not happen yet.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Except Jesus spoke about Daniel's prophesy.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Matthew 24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:


Matthew 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


Matthew 24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!


Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Matthew 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Matthew 24:25
Behold, I have told you before.


Matthew 24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Matthew 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Matthew 24:28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Matthew 24:29


Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That did not happen yet.

I already addressed this. Jesus pointed to what Daniel referred to--the desecration of the Temple--as the sign to look out for. And that was fulfilled when the Temple was desecrated by the Sicarii during the Jewish-Roman war. That did already happen.

The "tribulation of those days" is the period of time that lead up to the destruction of the Temple by the Romans. Recall how this whole sermon by the Lord began,

"Jesus left the temple and was going away, when His disciples came to point out to Him the buildings of the Temple. But He answered them, 'You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.'" - Matthew 24:1-2

The whole point of the Olivet Discourse was the coming destruction of the Temple.

After Jesus said this and they went to Mt. Olivet, they asked Him, "When will these things be?" They continue, "And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus then tells them that they will see many things, but these are not signs of the end, "kingdom rise against kingdom" "wars and rumors of wars" etc. These aren't signs, but birthpains, the world is sick and suffering in the pains of childbirth until the time God restores all things (compare Romans 8:22). Then Jesus describes the troubles His disciples will experience after He ascends, how they would face trouble from the Jewish authorities (we see this in the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles). And Jesus talks about the signs to look out for when it comes to the destruction of the Temple.

Jesus talks about His coming again beginning in verse 36, which doesn't have any signs attached, but rather the opposite, it will happen without warning. Jesus continues that same thread into Matthew 25, offering several parables about being watchful and faithful.

But nothing Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse applies to a modern Israel whatsoever. The Temple is already destroyed. The abomination that causes desolation is long since past, the Temple was desecrated, then destroyed. Christians in Jerusalem fled the city when they saw the signs Jesus said to look out for. Jewish Christians didn't participate in the conflict with the Romans.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[truthpls]

I already addressed this. Jesus pointed to what Daniel referred to--the desecration of the Temple--as the sign to look out for. And that was fulfilled when the Temple was desecrated by the Sicarii during the Jewish-Roman war. That did already happen.

No that event ends with His return to earth as the verses clearly said in Mat 24.

Jesus talks about His coming again beginning in verse 36, which doesn't have any signs attached, but rather the opposite, it will happen without warning. Jesus continues that same thread into Matthew 25, offering several parables about being watchful and faithful.

No once again.
Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

THAT day He just spoke about when men see Him return. Nothing to do with ancient history