Post-tribulation rapture truth.

[Manasseh_]

A true believer does not concern themselves with where and when the origins of a false doctrine /teaching began.
The Bereans are a prime example of this, they did not go themselves or send out anyone to spend time finding out when and how a false doctrine started. They simply listened with an open mind, then proceeded to go to the one and only authoritiy to see if this doctrine was taught by God (Sola Scriptura)

Whether it began with Margaret McDonald or those that listened to her or those that made revisions and more revisions to this pretrib doctrine, or even if it began hundreds of years before does not matter in the least bit.

What does matter is that we need not waste any time studying origins of lies, scripture already tells us who is the originator of lies (John 8:44)

The true believer has their powerful allies to rely on, God's written word, God's Holy Spirit to lead and teach, and obviously Christ living within us and promising never to abandon us. One only needs to heed the instructions of God's holy word..............Prove all things, study to show yourself approved by God, test all spirits and simply ASK..........ask for wisdom , for knowledge, for understanding and ask with all confidence that he will respond.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:


I could care less if it's origins stemmed from Margaret McDonald, or JN Darby or some ancient gnostic that lived hundreds of years ago as to the orgins of the pretrib doctrine............I only care about one thing

I hear a doctrine that comes and attempts to tell me that Christ will come before tribulation begins
then I am reminded by God's spirit from his written word and more so of Christ's own words that he himself said "after the tribulation of those days", both by promise and prophecy.

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by Migdala

... I am a new Christian, and do not know every bit of the Bible, but this is my opinion of the Rapture....we all know that no one taught that doctrine at all until that girl had that dream in the early centuries...I can't remember her name-Mary Margaret or something. We all have our theories on when it occurs, and I choose to believe what Jesus says in His own words over someone else's speculations. It would be nice if it does occur before the Tribulation, but it will happen when it will happen, and only God knows when.
​

It's good then that you admit that you are a new Christian, however, since you are one, (new) you would think that you would take the time to listen to those that have been around longer, and have studied the Bible longer than you have been a Christian.

This lie, for example, about the rapture not being taught until the 1800's, have you even bothered to fact-check this? Do you not take the time to look up stuff that goes AGAINST what you believe, so maybe you can form a well-rounded opinion/idea?

Migdala, I have been around longer, and have studied this subject from every angel, and you have it correct. Whatever you do, do not let deceivers such as Zugzwang move you from the truth.

 

[Biblewriter]

The error that Brother Spurgeon made (and he was a dear and godly brother) was in assuming that the rapture and the day of the Lord are the same event.

There is only on scripture about the rapture that even seems to indicate a post tribulation rapture, once this distinction is understood. That scripture is the one that says it is at the last trump.

To a post tribber this scripture is conclusive. But to a pre-tribber, it is not.

But we are told that there was another meaning of "the last trump" in the Roman world, to whom this prophecy as originally addressed. When a army was about to move, there was one trumpet given to notify to army to prepare to move out. A second trumpet called them to assemble for the march. A third and last trumpet ordered them to actually start moving. The reference could have been to this, or to something else.

But the various prophecies about the Lord's future coming
contain a large number of specific details that would be contradictions if He were only coming one more time.

These include:
Prophecies about his coming being wonderful verses prophecies about it being terrible.
Prophecies about his feet touching the earth verses prophecies about him coming to the air.
Prophecies about the Lord himself coming for us verses prophecies about him sending his angels to gather his elect.
Prophecies detailing a protracted war when He returns verses prophecies about his coming being instantaneous.
Prophecies about gathering all Israel back into their ancient homeland and blessing the there verses prophecies about him taking us to heaven.
Prophecies about men having wives and children after He comes verses prophecies about there being no marriage in the resurrection.

This list could go on and on. More that fifty such apparent contradictions have been cataloged. But every single one of these disappears when we realize that He is coming more than one more time.

In answer to all this, post tribbers stoutly maintain that the scriptures only speak of one future coming of Christ. But that is simply incorrect. Although the scriptures never state that He is coming more than one more time, they also never state that He is only coming one more time. But there is a Biblical precedent for resolving such apparent contradictions.

The Old Testament prophecies never said the Messiah would come more than once. But some of them described him as a suffering servant, while others described him as a conquering hero. Now hat we have the New Testament, we know that the resolution to this apparent contradiction was that He was coming more than once. Likewise, the scriptural precedent already demonstrated in the Bible is that similar apparent contradictions in the prophecies about his future coming should be resolved n the same way. That is, that He is still coming more than one more time.

Now some in this thread have accused the pre-tribbers here of being so hardened in our opinions that we refuse to listen o the scriptures. But we could just as easily accuse f the same thing.

Until you an explain how every one of the apparent contradictions in the prophecies about or Lord's future coming can be resoled without his coming more than one more time, then we ave a scriptural precedent for saying that these apparent contradictions prove that He is coming more than one more time.

We also have many more strong scriptural reasons for our conclusion. But almost every argument against this conclusion is based on an unprovable assumption that our Lord is only coming one more time. And in this post I have demonstrated the error in this assumption.

 

[Migdala]

Migdala, I have been around longer, and have studied this subject from every angel, and you have it correct. Whatever you do, do not let deceivers such as Zugzwang move you from the truth.

Thank you so much for your support! I hope I am wrong, but I do believe the post trib is correct as well....I may not have every detail memorized about it yet, but ever since I have been saved, I have cried and cried to the Lord to help me understand pre-trib, because I could not grasp it at all.....I kept asking Him to show me the truth...and He kept taking me back to those verses I mentioned, that definantly sound like post trib is how it will be.

 

[realtruth101]

"we all know that no one taught that doctrine at all until that girl had that dream in the early centuries...I can't remember her name-Mary Margaret or something"

>Who is we?

>David McPherson is a false teacher and his entire ranting, and those of his mentors who offer this ruse, related to the "Darby/ Macdonald story is a contrived hoax

>He relies upon the ignorance of those who buy his false teaching ..... the Macdonald vision actually has the church going through the tribulation period .... just the opposite of what David is trying use it for

>Better check it out .... the vision can be found on the Internet

thats about as good of a defense as she only drove the car, she didn't get out and commit the robberies......lol

 

[Biblewriter]

Originally Posted by Truth Files

"we all know that no one taught that doctrine at all until that girl had that dream in the early centuries...I can't remember her name-Mary Margaret or something"

>Who is we?

>David McPherson is a false teacher and his entire ranting, and those of his mentors who offer this ruse, related to the "Darby/ Macdonald story is a contrived hoax

>He relies upon the ignorance of those who buy his false teaching ..... the Macdonald vision actually has the church going through the tribulation period .... just the opposite of what David is trying use it for

>Better check it out .... the vision can be found on the Internet
​

thats about as good of a defense as she only drove the car, she didn't get out and commit the robberies......lol

Dave McPhearson wasted an entire book trying to prove what I cold have proved in five minutes, that Darby actually visited McDonald's church. All I would have to do is open a copy of "letters of JND," and read out what Darby himself wrote about the visit.

McPherson falsely accuses Darby of secreting his visit. Instead of secreting it, he actually published an account of his visit in the newspaper! And in his account he gave his judgment that the movement was Satanic in its origin.

And in spite of all the ranting of post-tribber, there is not an atom of evidence that Darby even knew about the alleged vision. Anyone who has even the slightest knowledge of Darby's positions on various subjects knows that the notion that he wold pay any attention whatsoever to such an alleged vision is total nonsense.

But much more to the point, there is extensive proof that this doctrine did not even originate at that time. Two men from the seventeen hundreds taught it.

One unknown writer detailed it in a document whose age is unknown, but was in three manuscripts known to have been in church libraries before the year 800. From internal evidence in this document, modern scholars have estimated its date at times ranging from around 450 to 675 or so. Two of the ancient manuscripts say it was written by someone named Ephraim, and the third one says it was written by someone called Isadore of Sevelle. To find it on the internet, Google "examining an ancient pre-trib rapture document."

But regardless of who wrote it or when it was written, it was already in church libraries a thousand years before Darby was born. This document contains the following passage:

"Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world becauseof our sins."

And sometime between the years 196 and 199, Irenaeus said the following:

"And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.' For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption." (Against Heresies, V XXIX.1)

But Irenaeus also said,

"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist." (Against Heresies, V, XXXV.1)

From this apparent contradiction I am not quite certain what his position was.

 

[Charles Spurgeon]

Biblewriter... even if some believed in a pre-trib rapture even during the first millennium that still doesn't necessarily make it correct doctrine. Though I agree it was before this Margaret girl.

I wish and hope that I'm wrong and that the rapture really is before the tribulation. Why suffer, or have to go through the horror of it? But as far as I can see with my God given heart, it's at the end and is wrapped up with the second coming.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Thank you so much for your support! I hope I am wrong, but I do believe the post trib is correct as well....I may not have every detail memorized about it yet, but ever since I have been saved, I have cried and cried to the Lord to help me understand pre-trib, because I could not grasp it at all.....I kept asking Him to show me the truth...and He kept taking me back to those verses I mentioned, that definantly sound like post trib is how it will be.

Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: 21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
​

.

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter... even if some believed in a pre-trib rapture even during the first millennium that still doesn't necessarily make it correct doctrine. Though I agree it was before this Margaret girl.

I wish and hope that I'm wrong and that the rapture really is before the tribulation. Why suffer, or have to go through the horror of it? But as far as I can see with my God given heart, it's at the end and is wrapped up with the second coming.

I absolutely agree with you in this.

How long a doctrine has been taught, or who taught it or denied it in the past, is entirely irrelevant. The only thing that counts is what the Bible says. I was simply answering the lie that the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture started with Margaret McDonald.

I am absolutely convinced that the Bible teaches that we will be taken out of this world before the time we commonly call "the tribulation."

I understand that many Godly Christians do not see this. But most people on both sides if this issue do not seem to understand the real basis of our difference of opinion.

The problem is not in which scriptures we believe. We all believe all of them. (I have nothing whatsoever to say to those that do not.) And in many cases, we rely on the same scriptures.

The problem actually is in our varying assumptions about the meanings of various terms used in the Bible. If we use one set of assumptions about what these terms mean, one conclusion is obvious. But if we use the other set of assumptions about what these same terms mean, the opposite conclusion is obvious.

So this cannot be resolved without determining the real meanings of these terms.

P.S. Please excuse the many tyos in my posts. I have no feeing in my fingertips and often miss keys.

 

[4runner]

The error that Brother Spurgeon made (and he was a dear and godly brother) was in assuming that the rapture and the day of the Lord are the same event.

Scripture tells us they are the same, so the error is your by assuming they are not.

There is only on scripture about the rapture that even seems to indicate a post tribulation rapture, once this distinction is understood. That scripture is the one that says it is at the last trump.

This is absolutely untrue. Matthew 24:29-31 places the rapture at the post trib 2nd coming, so does Mark 13:24-27, so does 1st Corinthians 15:20-23, so does 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18, so does 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10, and 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3. In reality many, many passages including 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 makes it crystal clear when the catching away takes place. You simply refuse to receive God's vertic on this matter.

 

[zeke37]

although he has not had time to respond yet,
i asked biblewriter on another thread,

when is the Resurrection?
when are the dead raised?

pre trib or post trib?


any other is welcome to answer!

 

[Migdala]

Christ raises the dead at the last trumpet....I have an earlier post in this thread that shows the verse.

 

[zeke37]

and when is that last trump...pre trib or post trib....???

 

[4runner]

and when is that last trump...pre trib or post trib....???

post trib

 

[lbgreen]

I am new to the forum and came across it searching for a network of like minded Christian believers. I am a post trib girl all the way. I have studied under several post trib writers that have websites for approximately 10 years now. I saw your post about surviving the tribulation Charles. God gave us his "word" (the bible) to help us prepare for what is to come. The age old question is when is the rapture? It says in the bible it is "On the day of the Lord". The multiple passages that speak to this matter have been rolling through my mind for several years. A few friends of mine and I have been wondering how we should prepare. We know that there will be an amount of pre-natural protection given to us by the Lord. Does that mean we are not suppose to prepare ourselves? I have been trying to come up with a way to link Christians together in case of natural disasters in the end time. Think of it this way. You live in a city or town. Your property or city is totally destroyed and all you have left is a BOB. Where do you take your family? Where do you go where people will be willing to trade for food and provide the word of God for study? We know there will be "Saints" that refuse the mark and escape to the wilderness. Why doesn't someone start a website or network of like minded believers where others can go when the Stuff hits the fan? I am working on this with some friends. We are trying to figure out how to do it safely. I have a small 40 acre farm in lower Alabama. I have a creek on my property, horses and we are sort of off the grid. Who says I might not be able to stay here for a while? Why couldn't I offer my property to like minded Christians in the event of a disaster?

Mathew 25:35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat, I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in.

Is this not how we are suppose to treat each other with Christian brotherly love? Are we not suppose to stick together and try and survive this?

So Charles, this is my question. We as Christians need a network of some kind that will gather us together in remote "wilderness" locations until we are called home. Where we might be able to study the word of God and survive. HAS ANYONE COME ACROSS A NETWORK LIKE THIS??? If not does anyone have ideas about forming a network like this? Where we could barter with local believers for trade of necessities or just have a place believers can go for protection? Any ideas?

 

[Biblewriter]

I am new to the forum and came across it searching for a network of like minded Christian believers. I am a post trib girl all the way. I have studied under several post trib writers that have websites for approximately 10 years now. I saw your post about surviving the tribulation Charles. God gave us his "word" (the bible) to help us prepare for what is to come. The age old question is when is the rapture? It says in the bible it is "On the day of the Lord". The multiple passages that speak to this matter have been rolling through my mind for several years. A few friends of mine and I have been wondering how we should prepare. We know that there will be an amount of pre-natural protection given to us by the Lord. Does that mean we are not suppose to prepare ourselves? I have been trying to come up with a way to link Christians together in case of natural disasters in the end time. Think of it this way. You live in a city or town. Your property or city is totally destroyed and all you have left is a BOB. Where do you take your family? Where do you go where people will be willing to trade for food and provide the word of God for study? We know there will be "Saints" that refuse the mark and escape to the wilderness. Why doesn't someone start a website or network of like minded believers where others can go when the Stuff hits the fan? I am working on this with some friends. We are trying to figure out how to do it safely. I have a small 40 acre farm in lower Alabama. I have a creek on my property, horses and we are sort of off the grid. Who says I might not be able to stay here for a while? Why couldn't I offer my property to like minded Christians in the event of a disaster?

Mathew 25:35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat, I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in.

Is this not how we are suppose to treat each other with Christian brotherly love? Are we not suppose to stick together and try and survive this?

So Charles, this is my question. We as Christians need a network of some kind that will gather us together in remote "wilderness" locations until we are called home. Where we might be able to study the word of God and survive. HAS ANYONE COME ACROSS A NETWORK LIKE THIS??? If not does anyone have ideas about forming a network like this? Where we could barter with local believers for trade of necessities or just have a place believers can go for protection? Any ideas?

I have a logical problem for post tribbers.

If the Lord takes all His own to heaven at the end of the tribulation, and sends all the wicked to hell at that time, Who will be left to populate the millennum?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Most pre-tribbers also use the Rev.ch. 19 when Jesus is coming back from heaven with His army of saints and angels. But that could just be the saints who have already died up until that point and gone to heaven. But this seems to be the clearest proof to me that we will be going through the great tribulation. And that is because in 1 Thess. it clearly reveals that the rapture will happened at the resurrection.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:{the dead is Christ shall rise first/the is the resurrection}
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When is the resurrection? Well Jesus tells us as clear as day that it's on "the last day" As a matter of a fact, He says it 4 times in ch.6 of John

-
-Joh 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
-Joh 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
-Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

-Joh 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I mean...how much clearer can it be than that?

But I also do pray everyday that HE will count me worthy to escape the things which shall come..as HE bids me in:
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape [all] these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So I'm not dogmatic against pre-tribbers. Because the Bible does reference clearly also that there will be made some form of escape for some believers during these times that are quickly approaching.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
But this verse here doesn't necessarily speak of any thing physical...but that spiritually some believers will be given more of GOD'S grace during this period and kept from temptations that would have the power to lead them into bondage and destruction as will others who are not protected under the supernatural influences of GOD'S grace.

 

[tranquil]

I am new to the forum and came across it searching for a network of like minded Christian believers. I am a post trib girl all the way. I have studied under several post trib writers that have websites for approximately 10 years now. I saw your post about surviving the tribulation Charles. God gave us his "word" (the bible) to help us prepare for what is to come. The age old question is when is the rapture? It says in the bible it is "On the day of the Lord". The multiple passages that speak to this matter have been rolling through my mind for several years. A few friends of mine and I have been wondering how we should prepare. We know that there will be an amount of pre-natural protection given to us by the Lord. Does that mean we are not suppose to prepare ourselves? I have been trying to come up with a way to link Christians together in case of natural disasters in the end time. Think of it this way. You live in a city or town. Your property or city is totally destroyed and all you have left is a BOB. Where do you take your family? Where do you go where people will be willing to trade for food and provide the word of God for study? We know there will be "Saints" that refuse the mark and escape to the wilderness. Why doesn't someone start a website or network of like minded believers where others can go when the Stuff hits the fan? I am working on this with some friends. We are trying to figure out how to do it safely. I have a small 40 acre farm in lower Alabama. I have a creek on my property, horses and we are sort of off the grid. Who says I might not be able to stay here for a while? Why couldn't I offer my property to like minded Christians in the event of a disaster?

Mathew 25:35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat, I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in.

Is this not how we are suppose to treat each other with Christian brotherly love? Are we not suppose to stick together and try and survive this?

So Charles, this is my question. We as Christians need a network of some kind that will gather us together in remote "wilderness" locations until we are called home. Where we might be able to study the word of God and survive. HAS ANYONE COME ACROSS A NETWORK LIKE THIS??? If not does anyone have ideas about forming a network like this? Where we could barter with local believers for trade of necessities or just have a place believers can go for protection? Any ideas?

What you describe wanting to prepare for IS "the pre-trib rapture". The "rapture" is merely the gathering in the wilderness after leaving Babylon/ Egypt. The Hebrews looking for "the promised land" in Exodus are "given the wing's of an eagle". Does that mean they were flying around on giant eagles? No...

The media paints a picture of a "cosmic vacuum cleaner" rapture. Don't be deceived, it is because it is part of Satan's deception. In other words, all this pre-trib/ post trib debate will be a moot point b/c Satan is going to fake the "cosmic vacuum cleaner rapture" to get people into worshipping the AC.

It will all work out in the end, I think. So, who is going to populate the "millenium"? People like you!

This is just my opinion, but, I think things will be like the "Walking Dead" TV show, b/c that pretty much describes "a pre-trib rapture". Trumpet 5/ 150 days is somewhat synonymous with the "millenium"/ when Satan is bound - if you doubt it, compare Rev. chapt 9 with chapt 20, they are the same, just T5 is 150 days and the "millenium" is 2 Peter 3:8 when Christ is alive.

Rev. 9
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Death is Satan, and Satan is nowhere to be found and it upsets his followers.

For the USA, 150 days after 4-14-14 when it all starts going down/ T5's 150 days, add 150 to get the 13th anniversary of 9-11 (13 signifies rebellion). And that is not going to be easy living, to say the least...

As to the "Network", Satan would be all the more aware of your enclave if you are posting it online... I'm sure you will find enough people naturally through the working of the Holy Spirit.

Edit to add:
the pre-trib Walking Dead rapture would only apply to the US and not the rest of the world.

 

[zeke37]

recap

I really hope that I can convince everyone Biblically that the rapture is at the end. Here is everything (that I know of) pertaining to the rapture in the NT. Now someone has kindly showed me some passages from the OT which also talk about the gathering of Israel, but I'll just focus on these. And although the OT passages that talk about the gathering of Israel in the last days... they probably pertain to the church as well... thus both groups.

Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This says a there will be a loud trumpet call, and the angels will gather the elect together (i.e. those chosen for salvation).

Joh 14:1 "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Joh 14:4 And you know the way to where I am going."

Now I'm not totally sure how to interpret this verse in relation to the rapture... everything else points to an immediate coming back after we're taken up into the sky, transformed, given in marriage, and come back as part of the Lord's army. Perhaps what the Lord is saying is that He was going to prepare the way, as in die, and set things straight. Also, maybe quite literally based on the context of what He says here, when He comes again, He will gather us together, and thus we will be with Him right there, thus fulfilling "that where I am you may be also"...

hi...fellow post tribber here

it's not a rapture proof at all.
that scripture set is just as true for the disciples back then
as it is for us today,
so it just can't be about the end time rapture if they were likewise included in it's promise

further more, if we just continue to read the chapter,
it becomes apparent that the promise just made,
was intended for all of us, not just those at the end

1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

This shows that we shall be raised at the last trumpet (i.e. look at Matthew 24 again)1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Another sound of the trumpet... and also the coming of the Lord. This most definitely is not suggestive of a hidden or secret rapture. And it is true... we will always be forever with the Lord at that point.

Yep...also, it is at the last day,
because the dead in Christ are brought from heaven and raised here

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Again, the coming of the Lord, and us being gathered together, then at the end of the 2nd verse, Paul references to the day of the Lord and assumes that our gathering is the day of the Lord.

and Paul say that the son of perdition must sit in the temple of God (us)
and claim to be God (Jesus), before the gathering to Him

Col 3:4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

The only next appearance of the Lord is the second coming.

absolutely

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Read this completely: (double u double u double u) solagroup (dot ) org/articles/endtimes/et_0014 (dot) html

all one has to do is continue to read the whole letter,
to become aware that there are plenty of things
that have to happen during us being kept from the hour

Rev 19:6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready;
Rev 19:8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
Rev 19:9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."
Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

This is the marriage of the bride and it is right as Jesus is coming back. It seems that we will be gathered, and then the heavens are opened and we'll immediately come back as part of His army

Re19:6-8 is the declaration from heaven,
that the bride on earth, is now ready to be gathered
the end of the chapter shows the supper of God, the wedding feast.

note the menu and location