Poll: premarital counseling

[blythe_ann]

I picked "somewhat seriously". We religiously went to the 6 sessions with our pastor.
Did I learn anything? Not really. When you are together for 5 years, some of the practical stuff is taken care of ("how to handle your first fight", etc.) and some of it, you can't just discuss before hand.
As a person who has suffered from a sexual medical condition, I would have like to know that my condition existed before the doctor told me I had it, but no amount of counseling would have prepared us for it, and there was no way of knowing it would happen until after we were married (since we waited until we were married).

It may be helpful for some but it wasn't for us. We're happy regardless.

 

[Conservativation]

Of course. But does that necessarily undercut the value of learning the template? Just because it is not sufficient to know the theology does not mean it is not necessary.

No sir. I agree with you, and meant no implication about the template, good bad or sideways
I was commenting strictly in the context of counseling. Counseling is done to address a problem, think marriage counseling....so even the word is a misnomer PREmarital, though I understand that the literal word counseling does fit just giving advice. The thing is the expectation of so much from premarital counseling is in my opinion misplaced.

So many times in discussions of divorce, pre-marriage counseling is offered up as a panacea , well if we could just equip people better.....so forth

Its way to simplistic a notion.

 

[citizenthom]

I think it's more accurate to say there are certain things we do expect without premarital counseling or some other form of mentorship before/early in marriage. For instance, I know several couples who did not take one of the more basic pieces of advice you get in premarital counseling: for the first 2-3 months (at least), get away from family and friends and focus entirely on each other. It takes that long just to adjust to another person, to learn how to show them love in their unique language, and to practice dealing with everyday conflicts. Most of those couples still show the scars from that lack of foundation.

BTW, I have to take issue with your definition of "counseling." Counseling is just as often anticipatory or preparatory as rehabilitative. For instance, businesses seek out legal counsel to help them avoid lawsuits, not just to fight lawsuits. When you can anticipate problems arising, it is unwise to wait until there is a problem to seek out counsel.

Finally, premarital counseling can and should address problems that already exist within the relationship that the couple has not confronted themselves. For instance, if a man has struggled with inappropriate contentography but thinks marriage alone will fix it, and his partner mistakenly agrees, that is an existing problem that needs to be remedied.

 

[Conservativation]

I think it's more accurate to say there are certain things we do expect without premarital counseling or some other form of mentorship before/early in marriage. For instance, I know several couples who did not take one of the more basic pieces of advice you get in premarital counseling: for the first 2-3 months (at least), get away from family and friends and focus entirely on each other. It takes that long just to adjust to another person, to learn how to show them love in their unique language, and to practice dealing with everyday conflicts. Most of those couples still show the scars from that lack of foundation.

BTW, I have to take issue with your definition of "counseling." Counseling is just as often anticipatory or preparatory as rehabilitative(did you miss this in my post..."though I understand that the literal word counseling does fit just giving advice). For instance, businesses seek out legal counsel to help them avoid lawsuits, not just to fight lawsuits. When you can anticipate problems arising, it is unwise to wait until there is a problem to seek out counsel.

Finally, premarital counseling can and should address problems that already exist within the relationship that the couple has not confronted themselves. For instance, if a man has struggled with inappropriate contentography but thinks marriage alone will fix it, and his partner mistakenly agrees, that is an existing problem that needs to be remedied.

Pretty sure I covered your points on counseling.


Mentorship is great for new couples. In fact the only truly successful marriage saving ministry, MarriageSavers, build big time on mentoring with older couples who have walked through fire. They succeed in dramatic ways. They are so successful, some churches actually seem afraid to adopt them. The pastor fears if he touts something thats going to lower the divorce rate, that the divorced people will feel judged, so they fear the ministry that makes 50% plus declines in whole community divorce rates a reality.

 

[Luther073082]

We did pre-marital counciling and took it seriously.

I really think there are things about it that have helped things go more smoothly in our marriage. So on that basis alone I think it was worth it espeically considering it was free.

It was done with the pastor who was marrying us.

Statistical evidence shows that pre-marital counciling does decrease the chances of divorce. Now its impossible to prove it was the counciling, one could easily argue that people who seek pre-marital counciling care more about their marriage surviving.

I certainly don't count our time in pre-marital counciling as time wasted. Not in the least.

 

[FaithPrevails]

None of it made any difference; not books not advice not counseling. People do what they want to do at the end of the day.

^^This would describe my first marriage.

No premarital counseling for my second marriage, yet we are a much stronger couple and have a much deeper bond/level of trust. So, I think the counseling is nice, but does not necessarily "make or break" a couple.

If my ex had been more honest about certain things in our premarital counseling, I most likely would have called off our engagement.

 

[Luther073082]

^^This would describe my first marriage.

No premarital counseling for my second marriage, yet we are a much stronger couple and have a much deeper bond/level of trust. So, I think the counseling is nice, but does not necessarily "make or break" a couple.

If my ex had been more honest about certain things in our premarital counseling, I most likely would have called off our engagement.

Well no amount of counciling is going to help in some cases. I mean if you are looking for pre-marital counciling to be some sort of Mr. fix it that prevents everyone from getting divorced then you are asking for the wrong thing.

Nothing is going to change someone if they are determined to do wrong.

But can pre-marital counciling help 2 decent honest people have a better marriage, avoid a few fights, and maybe just maybe save them from a divorce? Yes I think it can in the long run.

Pre-marital counciling isn't going to fix everything, no one thing, save for Jesus's return, is going to fix everything. But if something fixes a few things then you can't just discount it.

 

[dallasapple]

There is no workable plan. A plan is specific....flank, split the line, go left go right, feint, whatever.

Laying out some ground rules for marriage is not a plan. Its a template. Even then its just not possible to know what exception YOURS is going to be...because other than Godly principles, there are always exceptions.

You are mixing 2 potentially volatile substances (people), and yea you can put them in a beaker, put the beaker on a pillow, surround it with polystyrene peanuts, build a bunker around it.....and the mixture mutates into a powerful acid or base and eats it all up.

Thats why premarital counseling seems useless or nearly so. It may drag out some mega theme differences.....she wants 3 kids he wants 1.....she wants to work he wants a sahm...whatever

But they already know these things intellectually. Its not that. Its the stuff that they dont know and that no counseling will know or reveal. Im too pragmatic for my own good I realize, but I consider telling people hey, this will be tough, like those PSA's in summer that say if you are hot get in shade and drink water.....

Cons I agree with you this time.In fact its what Im trying to say on the other thread..YOU DONT KNOW BEFORE YOU ARE THERE.

That is why people shouldnt call me hopeless though..Because another thing I believe is just as people have la la fantasies of fariy tale endings.Even if someone says "marraige is hard"...and if you just do A A and C it will be and FEEL X,Y,Z .they also UNDERESTIMATE their endurance capabilities..

Just as people blow off and say "that wont happen to us"..which they CAN NOT KNOW...they also can not say "but if it does thats where I draw the line"..

I think 'pre marital" counseling helps about as much (or I woudl guess) as "childbirth classes"(or "learning what to expect in pregnancy )..But even with childbirth the variables are more limited than marraige....and you can STILL never explain to a person what it feels like..how they are going to react..or how its going to go for them..or the child..

I dont know how many women go in DETERMINED to go all "natural"..as in NO epidural..no man made pain management..that quickly change their minds 1/3 of the way through the labor and beg for something..Sighting they had NO IDEA that it was going to hurt that bad.Despite the hours of lamaz...the videos..and the books...

I think of marital counseling as similar..You just never know until you go through it..And even with each subsequent pregnancy and delivery as well...

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

Well no amount of counciling is going to help in some cases. I mean if you are looking for pre-marital counciling to be some sort of Mr. fix it that prevents everyone from getting divorced then you are asking for the wrong thing.

Nothing is going to change someone if they are determined to do wrong.

But can pre-marital counciling help 2 decent honest people have a better marriage, avoid a few fights, and maybe just maybe save them from a divorce? Yes I think it can in the long run.

Pre-marital counciling isn't going to fix everything, no one thing, save for Jesus's return, is going to fix everything. But if something fixes a few things then you can't just discount it.

I wouldnt discount it either..Just like I wouldnt discount someone being educated on my analogy childbirth and labor..Oh and what about 'parenting classes"?

Its funny this new series called Bethany and Beyond"..a reality show..She just had a baby and got married..She and her husband were talking..I think at a resturant ..about the baby and marraige and ..they looked at each other and said "oh my...we are "THOSE PEOPLE"..

Dallas

 

[c1ners]

I think if we would have went through marriage counseling with my second marriage that that second marriage wouldn't have been.

 

[Lena75]

No premarital counseling and married almost 21 years .

Same here except we're going on our 17th year.

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

With my family against our marriage to begin with because he's disabled + my family believes in arranged marriages, and being long distance for our entire engagement, we did not have the opportunity for premarital counseling before we were kicked out. We married while we were homeless.

Not sure premarital counseling would have told me anything I didn't already know anyway.

 

[Periann]

We did a 3.5 hour premarital counseling session with our pastor (both attend the same church) before marriage all in one go due to all of our crazy schedules. I thought it was helpful but I put we only took it somewhat seriously because of the fact that we never really followed up on all the little things Pastor had given us to look into.

What was most helpful about the session was the frank financial discussion we had, something we hadn't really discussed in too much detail before. We also did a little scenario thing about how we would respond to certain situations and I learned that I am much more of a heads on person and my husband is definitely very passive, which is something I knew but it was just confirmed even more with counseling.

Another thing that was helpful about our counseling sessions were the talk about what roles our parents should play in our lives. We are both very much attached to our parents and have the tendency to rely on them more for decisions than relying on each other. So we were made well aware of that and had some good discussions about how we would handle situations with both sets of parents as a couple. It might have helped that our pastor is someone who has known both of us for many years.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

We did premarital counseling with my pastor and took it very seriously.

 

[Oblivious]

We have been happily married for over 10 years now. We didn't do any marriage counseling and have no regrets in not doing so. I'm just personally not into the whole counseling/therapy psychoanalysis. But to each their own, of course...

 

[Luther073082]

We have been happily married for over 10 years now. We didn't do any marriage counseling and have no regrets in not doing so. I'm just personally not into the whole counseling/therapy psychoanalysis. But to each their own, of course...

Just so you know, pre-marital counciling does not involve any psychoanalysis.

For the record I don't think any form of counciling or therapy involves psychoanalysis either.

Wikipedia defines psychoanalysis as being Freudian in nature. . . My wife majored in psychology and I am somewhat read on the subject. The only reason one of us would listen to Freudian psychoanalysis on ourselves would be for a good laugh.

Neither one of us buy into Freud's ideas on psychology one bit.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Just so you know, pre-marital counciling does not involve any psychoanalysis.

For the record I don't think any form of counciling or therapy involves psychoanalysis either.

Wikipedia defines psychoanalysis as being Freudian in nature. . . My wife majored in psychology and I am somewhat read on the subject. The only reason one of us would listen to Freudian psychoanalysis on ourselves would be for a good laugh.

Neither one of us buy into Freud's ideas on psychology one bit.

That actually is incorrect. Some* do use psychoanalysis or incorporate certain things from it in their practice. Just FYI. I will explain later if you want me to. I'm not going to derail the thread (especially to talk about Freud).

*keyword: some

 

[highlife]

Well no amount of counciling is going to help in some cases. I mean if you are looking for pre-marital counciling to be some sort of Mr. fix it that prevents everyone from getting divorced then you are asking for the wrong thing.

Nothing is going to change someone if they are determined to do wrong.

But can pre-marital counciling help 2 decent honest people have a better marriage, avoid a few fights, and maybe just maybe save them from a divorce? Yes I think it can in the long run.

Pre-marital counciling isn't going to fix everything, no one thing, save for Jesus's return, is going to fix everything. But if something fixes a few things then you can't just discount it.

The problem is myself and anyone I know that has been divorced has been because their spouse was determined to do wrong. Most people dont get divorced over minor tiffs, so it really can make one question the validity of pre-marital counseling being on the pedastal that it is, if someone is misrepresenting themselves before marriage the other spouse would have to be VERY cleaver to catch that. Now once the marriage happens, "doing wrong" suddenly changes definition in terms of causes for divorce. Now (at least according to the church) the wronged spouse must endure hard ship to hell and back for the sake of keeping divorce numbers down for the church.

THAT is why people "shack up" before getting married, sometimes for years, its pretty tough to fake it if your in a full blown sexual relationship living with someone for 3-5 years, you can get alot more level of confidence out of that situation than you can with 6 hour and a half sessions. You then avoid all the paper work and drama that comes with a court divorce if you discover red flags. This assumes you do things to make sure you dont have any kids during this time as well.

It is the combination of having no legal consequences for the actions of the one doing wrong (unless its way over the top like physical abuse) AND the staunch anti divorce stance in church that leads to these conundrums. Of course who wants to be in a marriage with someone who is being legally forced to not do wrong we are called to live in peace.

 

[Luther073082]

The problem is myself and anyone I know that has been divorced has been because their spouse was determined to do wrong. Most people dont get divorced over minor tiffs, so it really can make one question the validity of pre-marital counseling being on the pedastal that it is, if someone is misrepresenting themselves before marriage the other spouse would have to be VERY cleaver to catch that. Now once the marriage happens, "doing wrong" suddenly changes definition in terms of causes for divorce. Now (at least according to the church) the wronged spouse must endure hard ship to hell and back for the sake of keeping divorce numbers down for the church.

Well its an odd thing that both spouses walk away thinging the other one was doing wrong.

However staying married isn't about keeping divorce numbers down for the church, that was screwed up a long time ago. Staying married is about obedience to our God who hates divorce and keeping promises.

THAT is why people "shack up" before getting married, sometimes for years, its pretty tough to fake it if your in a full blown sexual relationship living with someone for 3-5 years, you can get alot more level of confidence out of that situation than you can with 6 hour and a half sessions. You then avoid all the paper work and drama that comes with a court divorce if you discover red flags. This assumes you do things to make sure you dont have any kids during this time as well.

What you are preaching is not true (people who live together before marriage have higher rates of divorce.) You are also preaching a lifestyle that is counter to the Christian faith.

It is the combination of having no legal consequences for the actions of the one doing wrong (unless its way over the top like physical abuse) AND the staunch anti divorce stance in church that leads to these conundrums. Of course who wants to be in a marriage with someone who is being legally forced to not do wrong we are called to live in peace.

The church isn't staunch enough in its "anti-divorce stance" at least not most protestant churchs. The Roman Catholic Church may be a little too staunch, however at least they are trying which is far more then most protestant churchs can say.

I'm not sure if the way they carry it out is necessarily the most theologically correct way, however I have to appauld them for having the backbone to stand up to the unholy sacrament of our modern church known as divorce.

 

[chaz345]

Most pre-maritial counesling is nearly worthless, not because of the content or lack of content, there is a lot of really bad material being used and a lot of really good, but because it takes place too close to the intended date. Effective pre-maritial counseling needs to occur as part of the process by which the couple decides IF they want to get married in the first place. By the time the question has been asked and answered affirmatively, they are so far into that "in love" feeling that any issues that counseling may uncover will likely be ignored. Not only that but often the pre-maritial counseling takes place so far along into the logistical planning of the wedding that cancelling if major issues come up would be hugely expensive and/or embarrasing.