[PERMANENTLY CLOSED]Sex change?

[razzelflabben]

The truth of the matter is that this is happening more and more worldwide. And this is not just this one story. In India there are more of them, more of them that have both sets and one was removed only to find out later that they removed the wrong ones. So now, they no longer eliminate one set at birth--they wait for the child to determine what to do as it gets older. Plus, many have been unable to have any kind of surgery to remove one set due to finances and both sets are kept. They are in great demand on the sex circuit and most become prostitutes and work in inappropriate content as they are rejected everywhere else. This is beyond sad. But this whole thing of having both sets is even getting into the animals. An increase among frogs has been noted--I personally owned a cat that we also discovered had 2 anuses. What is going on? Is this somehow a part of chemicals, drugs and pesticide usage? We are tampering with everything so maybe. These are people with a dilemma that is simply not understood clearly enough and they can only do what is available to them now. Very few have any Christian outlook, or access to it and have to deal with the issue from their own religious viewpoint, which is no more supportive than the Christian. Maybe on down the road something else will be discovered to help them. But in the meantime----?

none of that changes the truth of what I said, it fact, it makes my comments stronger in that it adds yet another variable to complicate the conclusions.

It is interesting to me, that in spite of upbringing, surgery and even hormone therapy, these people with both sets who had had the wrong one removed, can still know they are not right even though no one has told them the truth. It just seems to indicate that some kind of imprinting might be going on in the brain--such as when a limb is removed, yet pain and even itching is still felt in the limb and needs to be investigated further. Which, again, needs money and people who are interested in the matter. Much of this reminds me of the old view of all mental disorders being labeled as demonic and giving in to our fallen natures instead having some sort of chemical imbalance.
Like my friend who had her head tilted to one side, it was getting worse to where her head was almost on her shoulder. She went to doctors who told her it was all in her head and she just needed to change her way of thinking, and some saying it was a way to get attention. Even I started to think that. She was miserable and started to doubt her own sanity. One day she went to a yet another specialist and when she walked in she immediately knew she had come to the right place--there were 5 other patients with the same thing! She has to take a little pill for the rest of her life and her head is, once again, straight, just a slight tilt. The brain is complex and mostly unknown.

When I was pregnant with our third, I was told by the dr. it was all in my head, I wasn't really pregnant, the next visit, I was told I was pregnant. The third visit I again was told, no I wasn't. Within a few short months, I gave birth to a full term baby that I had been told twice was a pregnancy in my brain only, not in my body. The point of me telling that story, is that just because we have questions about something in the flesh, doesn't mean we have answers to what that means or how God wants us to deal with it. I currently am battling a serious illness that the Dr.s won't even recognize and I have been called (by Dr.) as both a liar even though the evidence was there to view and too "ignorant to know what my own symptoms are" to be quiet and let him tell me what my symptoms are. My husband told him he was wrong, that those were not my symptoms and to accused him to being to ignorant to know what my symptoms were as well. Ignorance does NOT equal justification and we all need to guard against trying to make it equal

 

[mmksparbud]

Dr's---got to love 'em---countless years ago (over 40) I was told the same thing. I went to the dr--puking my head off--I knew I was pregnant. (An unguarded moment after my fiancé and I had not seen each other in many months----I had no doubt in my mind whatsoever that I was pregnant when I heard him say "OOOOPPPPSS!") The dr said it was impossible for my vomiting to be due to pregnancy as it had only been 2 weeks from said "oooopps". I ended up with such severe vomiting I had to be admitted to the hospital with dehydration and given a bunch of stuff for the vomiting and had upper and lower GI's. They said I just was upset about not being with my fiancé who was in another state--I did not believe them. I was right. I moved back with my fiancé and went to another dr and yes---very pregnant. I gave him a list of the meds and procedures I'd had done for my non-existent pregnancy and he studied it a long time and then wrote an address on a piece of paper and slid it to me. He said I was showing signs that I was going to miscarry, the drugs and tests I'd had would guarantee that the baby would be pretty much a monster. He was a Catholic dr working at a Catholic hospital. The address was of an abortion clinic in the next state where it was legal. He said the choice was mine and my fiancé and I talked it over and we did the abortion. I named him Jason, and for the next 16 years I raised him in my mind--I knew what he looked like at every age, (beautiful, and with curly hair) at 16 we had a fight as he wanted to go to San Francisco with his friends and wanted the car and I said no-he stormed off and slammed the door. Shortly thereafter I came back to God and asked Him to take those thoughts from me, they hurt--which He did. That was my last minds picture of him. Dr's don't know everything, I knew, without a doubt I was pregnant and I don't care how impossible that sounded to them---I knew. Don't know how, but I had no doubt. Maybe that is why I tend to understand the transgender ---they also know.

 

[razzelflabben]

Dr's---got to love 'em---countless years ago (over 40) I was told the same thing. I went to the dr--puking my head off--I knew I was pregnant. (An unguarded moment after my fiancé and I had not seen each other in many months----I had no doubt in my mind whatsoever that I was pregnant when I heard him say "OOOOPPPPSS!") The dr said it was impossible for my vomiting to be due to pregnancy as it had only been 2 weeks from said "oooopps". I ended up with such severe vomiting I had to be admitted to the hospital with dehydration and given a bunch of stuff for the vomiting and had upper and lower GI's. They said I just was upset about not being with my fiancé who was in another state--I did not believe them. I was right. I moved back with my fiancé and went to another dr and yes---very pregnant. I gave him a list of the meds and procedures I'd had done for my non-existent pregnancy and he studied it a long time and then wrote an address on a piece of paper and slid it to me. He said I was showing signs that I was going to miscarry, the drugs and tests I'd had would guarantee that the baby would be pretty much a monster. He was a Catholic dr working at a Catholic hospital. The address was of an abortion clinic in the next state where it was legal. He said the choice was mine and my fiancé and I talked it over and we did the abortion. I named him Jason, and for the next 16 years I raised him in my mind--I knew what he looked like at every age, (beautiful, and with curly hair) at 16 we had a fight as he wanted to go to San Francisco with his friends and wanted the car and I said no-he stormed off and slammed the door. Shortly thereafter I came back to God and asked Him to take those thoughts from me, they hurt--which He did. That was my last minds picture of him. Dr's don't know everything, I knew, without a doubt I was pregnant and I don't care how impossible that sounded to them---I knew. Don't know how, but I had no doubt. Maybe that is why I tend to understand the transgender ---they also know.

I know what I am about to say will stir a lot of emotion and in that, not end well, but I feel compelled to say it anyway. The main issue I have with transgenders and so far, all that I have met or known share this trait, is how easily they show dissatisfaction in all areas of their lives. It is alway one of many reasons I say they need to learn to be content with who they are and who God made them before even thinking about hormones or surgery. Being content is not a state of not desiring change, but rather it is a state of peace. In Christ it is a state of peace that the world cannot understand. We had that peace when our son died. Of course we wanted him alive and would have done anything to bring that about, but we were content and learning to be more content every single day, because God was giving us peace (contentment) that He was in control and that He doesn't make mistakes and that in Him, there could be good from our situation. If I ever met even one transgender with this type of contentment, I would be so astounded that it would take my breath away and in that, make me throw away every question I have. Instead, time and time and time again, I run into transgenders who are so discontent it makes me heart ache for them to discover the truth of who God is.

That being said, there are other groups I have found that fall to this same discontented display of who they are, it is not reserved for transgenders and it is the discontentment in everyone I have met that causes me to question some of the things they teach.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is strange--I have not had he same experience with them. I was a dialysis tech for 20 years, and actually dialyzed several of them, and there were others that were friends of dialysis patients. It was interesting to talk to them. And when you have 4-5 hours to spend in a room with someone--you end up talking about a lot of stuff, if they are so inclined. The ones I met had already transitioned and they were very much at peace--and they felt at peace for the first time in their lives. The ones that had not yet done it, were the ones that were not at peace as they were still not living as they needed to. One, in particular, stood out. She was drop dead gorgeous. Philipino, almost 6 feet tall, with that long, beautiful black hair. She made me feel almost unfeminine. I've never met one that was a caricature in voice or mannerisms. These were definitely not drag queens. I met many people of all different faiths, and most, actually, no faith. The transgender is no different.
The ones with no faith, I assume, will never be fully content simply because---to someone of faith, people are always looking for something they don't quite understand what--and it is, we think, God. God puts in us a desire to know Him that when we rebel against it, leaves a hole. Though there are those that have left him so far behind, that they have overridden that.
At one point I had walked away from God--wanted nothing to do with Him and told Him so. I was quite happy without Him. I felt no need of Him in any way. Only when my world started to fall apart did I realize, I really did not want to be without Him anymore. You might say, unhappiness drove me back to Him, but there are many that handle their unhappiness without Him, and I guess I could have to. I just no longer wanted to. I had been angry at Him and now that anger was mostly gone with the realization that all my childhood traumas were not His fault but the fault of those who led their lives without Him. So I came back. But I had not been discontented with my life without Him. I saw that there was a peace with Him I hadn't had, but was not able to discern the lack of peace before. Transgender or not, no one can be fully at peace without Him--but they may not see that until something makes you take a second look at Him.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

So I recently looked at a video about this boy who is convinced he is a girl. His parents have accepted it, and he is interested in estrogen regimens to further the agenda, which has been allowed by the parents and the physician.

What I find most disturbing about this is that he is 11 years old. Since when did children have the ability to make such decisions, when society declares that they aren't even old enough to make a mature, reasonable decision to have sex?
We have statutory laws on that, but not on the matter of the boy wanting a sex change.

This is how deluded the whole matter of the transgender agenda is, and serves as an example of how it's not a matter of science or something innate, it is a fanaticism.
And it is completely irresponsible for a parent to not have their child at least grow up first, and experience the first stages of their life, before they decide they want a sex change.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is a point to this. However, at the same time, every transgender I know of, has been this way from the very earliest of stages, before they even realize there is a difference they tend toward behavior of the opposite sex. My friends daughter exhibited it from the age of 2. Her mother said nothing, but knew there was a problem, she just lead the girl into more appropriate behavior. She treated her more "female" than her other daughter, who was, by the way, a tomboy, but not male like in actions and thought. Strangely enough, she did not try to feminize the tomboy. She was very girlie in other areas except sports. At the age of 16 the girl came to her mother in tears and told her how miserable she had been her whole life. She had said nothing, but there had been a growing uneasiness and anger in her. She told her mother about the years of struggling in her mind and how, from the earliest she could remember, she felt she was a girl, and now thinks she must be gay. The child was in a horrible state of pain and confusion. During the years the mother had secretly read up on transgenders, never discussed it with her husband or daughter, though. This had not come as a surprise to her, but the father went ballistic and wanted her out of the house. The marriage did not last, the mother stood by her child and the child finally realized she was not gay, she was just female and transgendered. Her mother wishes she had followed her instincts and done more talking about it to her, now, son. She had thought all those early years, she could change her daughter into being more female, by trying to make her dress more feminine and doing more "girl" things--she wished she'd asked the child instead, what she wanted. She would have grown up with a whole lot less unhappiness. The son, also wishes she had followed her instincts. In the meantime---the father has missed out on having a son.

 

[StephanieSomer]

So I recently looked at a video about this boy who is convinced he is a girl. His parents have accepted it, and he is interested in estrogen regimens to further the agenda, which has been allowed by the parents and the physician.

What I find most disturbing about this is that he is 11 years old. Since when did children have the ability to make such decisions, when society declares that they aren't even old enough to make a mature, reasonable decision to have sex?
We have statutory laws on that, but not on the matter of the boy wanting a sex change.

This is how deluded the whole matter of the transgender agenda is, and serves as an example of how it's not a matter of science or something innate, it is a fanaticism.
And it is completely irresponsible for a parent to not have their child at least grow up first, and experience the first stages of their life, before they decide they want a sex change.

I have NEVER seen any minor under the age of 16 being prescribed hormones, except one in Germany by the name of Kim Petras. And it took two years of numerous professionals confirming to a judge that she should be allowed. In the US, it just isn't done. What IS done is the prescribing of hormone BLOCKERS. The exact opposite of what you are claiming. All they do is postpone puberty. They do not prevent anything permanently. Nor do they do any damage. And they most definitely do NOT further anything transitional whatsoever. They simply postpone permanent bodily changes until the person is of an age to legally consent. If, upon reaching that age, the patient decides to not transition, the blockers are removed and puberty proceeds normally.

So, those things which you say you find "disturbing" don't happen at all.

 

[StephanieSomer]

There is a point to this. However, at the same time, every transgender I know of, has been this way from the very earliest of stages, before they even realize there is a difference they tend toward behavior of the opposite sex. My friends daughter exhibited it from the age of 2. Her mother said nothing, but knew there was a problem, she just lead the girl into more appropriate behavior. She treated her more "female" than her other daughter, who was, by the way, a tomboy, but not male like in actions and thought. Strangely enough, she did not try to feminize the tomboy. She was very girlie in other areas except sports. At the age of 16 the girl came to her mother in tears and told her how miserable she had been her whole life. She had said nothing, but there had been a growing uneasiness and anger in her. She told her mother about the years of struggling in her mind and how, from the earliest she could remember, she felt she was a girl, and now thinks she must be gay. The child was in a horrible state of pain and confusion. During the years the mother had secretly read up on transgenders, never discussed it with her husband or daughter, though. This had not come as a surprise to her, but the father went ballistic and wanted her out of the house. The marriage did not last, the mother stood by her child and the child finally realized she was not gay, she was just female and transgendered. Her mother wishes she had followed her instincts and done more talking about it to her, now, son. She had thought all those early years, she could change her daughter into being more female, by trying to make her dress more feminine and doing more "girl" things--she wished she'd asked the child instead, what she wanted. She would have grown up with a whole lot less unhappiness. The son, also wishes she had followed her instincts. In the meantime---the father has missed out on having a son.

And the son, a father.

 

[mmksparbud]

I have NEVER seen any minor under the age of 16 being prescribed hormones, except one in Germany by the name of Kim Petras. And it took two years of numerous professionals confirming to a judge that she should be allowed. In the US, it just isn't done. What IS done is the prescribing of hormone BLOCKERS. The exact opposite of what you are claiming. All they do is postpone puberty. They do not prevent anything permanently. Nor do they do any damage. And they most definitely do NOT further anything transitional whatsoever. They simply postpone permanent bodily changes until the person is of an age to legally consent. If, upon reaching that age, the patient decides to not transition, the blockers are removed and puberty proceeds normally.

So, those things which you say you find "disturbing" don't happen at all.

Thank you fir clarifying that as even I tend to forget that and use the words hormones or hormone therapy instead of blockers.

 

[StephanieSomer]

That is strange--I have not had he same experience with them. I was a dialysis tech for 20 years, and actually dialyzed several of them, and there were others that were friends of dialysis patients. It was interesting to talk to them. And when you have 4-5 hours to spend in a room with someone--you end up talking about a lot of stuff, if they are so inclined. The ones I met had already transitioned and they were very much at peace--and they felt at peace for the first time in their lives. The ones that had not yet done it, were the ones that were not at peace as they were still not living as they needed to. One, in particular, stood out. She was drop dead gorgeous. Philipino, almost 6 feet tall, with that long, beautiful black hair. She made me feel almost unfeminine. I've never met one that was a caricature in voice or mannerisms. These were definitely not drag queens. I met many people of all different faiths, and most, actually, no faith. The transgender is no different.
The ones with no faith, I assume, will never be fully content simply because---to someone of faith, people are always looking for something they don't quite understand what--and it is, we think, God. God puts in us a desire to know Him that when we rebel against it, leaves a hole. Though there are those that have left him so far behind, that they have overridden that.
At one point I had walked away from God--wanted nothing to do with Him and told Him so. I was quite happy without Him. I felt no need of Him in any way. Only when my world started to fall apart did I realize, I really did not want to be without Him anymore. You might say, unhappiness drove me back to Him, but there are many that handle their unhappiness without Him, and I guess I could have to. I just no longer wanted to. I had been angry at Him and now that anger was mostly gone with the realization that all my childhood traumas were not His fault but the fault of those who led their lives without Him. So I came back. But I had not been discontented with my life without Him. I saw that there was a peace with Him I hadn't had, but was not able to discern the lack of peace before. Transgender or not, no one can be fully at peace without Him--but they may not see that until something makes you take a second look at Him.

I'm glad you took the time to actually converse with transfolk and get to know some. I AM one. And, I personally am acquainted with a couple hundred others. Are any of them like what razzle has described? Sure. There are some. Most of the ones I know aren't like that though. Very few are. Personally, I don't believe they are mature enough to transition. Transition is a tough choice. It's not a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, nearly every other transsexual that I have met has agreed that they always tell anyone considering it to not proceed unless they have absolutely no other choice. It's THAT difficult. It takes maturity to be able to maintain in the face of such opposition without resorting to childishness. But, that isn't for me to judge. That's between them, their therapist, and God. I just think transition would do them so much better if they could address some other issues first. However, even these are a small minority.

Your statement that "These were definitely not drag queens" is spot on. I have met a few that were highly motivated by fashion, and they tend to over-dress sometimes, but most aren't at all like that. I know I'm not. I'm a jeans and flip-flops girl. I work in a woodshop and enjoy getting my hands dirty in the garden. And, I'm setting up a backyard rabbitry for meat which I'll be doing my own slaughtering. I was greatly surprised at how successfully I have transitioned. I fully expected to have a much less than satisfactory appearance. And I was ok with that. I'm older, and appearances don't motivate me. To my great surprise, I am never treated as anything but female, even though I'm not at all shy about my circumstances and am willing to discuss them with anyone. I don't wear a sign around my neck which reads "Transsexual". But, if it comes up, or I think I should reveal it, I do so. And I have gotten VERY surprised reactions from many people. They had no clue. And if my current rate of makeup usage continues, I won't be buying any more at all for another 10 years. It collects dust, actually.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

So, those things which you say you find "disturbing" don't happen at all.

IT'S DISTURBING EITHER WAY

Allowing an 11 year old to be treated as adult enough to decide on their gender is bad enough, let alone prescribing them anything to induce the idea further.

 

[mmksparbud]

I went on disability 5 years ago---I am still using up my Bare Minerals products and have not bought one thing in these 5 years!! Little by little. I mostly quite wearing it--I also do not color my hair anymore and do not wear a bra (hurts anymore) due to many medical problems I am mostly in a wheel chair now and recently my glasses broke and I've had to tape them together until in a couple months, I can get them welded, my legs are on fire from neuropathies, fluid retention sores and I've found that yoghurt helps that a lot---I went by the mirror the other day and all I need is for some idiot to snap a picture and post it with the rest of the "WalMart Shoppers" list!!!---God bless!

 

[StephanieSomer]

IT'S DISTURBING EITHER WAY

Allowing an 11 year old to be treated as adult enough to decide on their gender is bad enough, let alone prescribing them anything to induce the idea further.

No, it isn't. YOU find them disturbing. That doesn't MAKE it disturbing. It's only YOUR experience. It's not a central truth, it's your opinion.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I went on disability 5 years ago---I am still using up my Bare Minerals products and have not bought one thing in these 5 years!! Little by little. I mostly quite wearing it--I also do not color my hair anymore and do not wear a bra (hurts anymore) due to many medical problems I am mostly in a wheel chair now and recently my glasses broke and I've had to tape them together until in a couple months, I can get them welded, my legs are on fire from neuropathies, fluid retention sores and I've found that yoghurt helps that a lot---I went by the mirror the other day and all I need is for some idiot to snap a picture and post it with the rest of the "WalMart Shoppers" list!!!---God bless!

I recognize the difficulties you are living with, and you have my sincerest sympathies. But, I also recognize the good natured-ness which you expressed and the lack of bitterness at your difficulties. THAT is absolutely beautiful! Both to me, and most assuredly, to God. God bless you sister!

 

[StephanieSomer]

IT'S DISTURBING EITHER WAY

Allowing an 11 year old to be treated as adult enough to decide on their gender is bad enough, let alone prescribing them anything to induce the idea further.

Again... 11 year olds are NOT allowed to be treated as adult enough to decide their gender. They are given blockers until they ARE old enough to be treated as adult enough to make that determination. And, NOTHING is given them to induce any ideas at all. No changes at all are induced on their bodies. None.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Again... 11 year olds are NOT allowed to be treated as adult enough to decide their gender. They are given blockers until they ARE old enough to be treated as adult enough to make that determination. And, NOTHING is given them to induce any ideas at all. No changes at all are induced on their bodies. None.

'Puberty suppressors'.
We're not in Never Land.

 

[StephanieSomer]

'Puberty suppressors'.
We're not in Never Land.

Why is it so difficult to admit that most of the rhetoric you've posted in this thread is not a true description of the facts? I readily admit your freedom to not like or agree with transition. But, I can't abide false statements which are repeated ad nausea to attempt to support your opinion. When you make a false claim, I point it out. And you respond with "We're not in Never Land"? Really? In all honesty, I appreciate such responses, for they demonstrate the source of your opinion. Emotion. Not reason.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Why is it so difficult to admit that most of the rhetoric you've posted in this thread is not a true description of the facts? I readily admit your freedom to not like or agree with transition. But, I can't abide false statements which are repeated ad nausea to attempt to support your opinion. When you make a false claim, I point it out. And you respond with "We're not in Never Land"? Really? In all honesty, I appreciate such responses, for they demonstrate the source of your opinion. Emotion. Not reason.

See, what you just did is basically call me a liar because I mistook 'estrogen' pills for 'puberty-stalling pills', both of which are equally ridiculous to give to an 11 year old who doesn't even know what it is to be a man or a woman.
And that just shows your determination to turn what is otherwise absurd into something reasonable by making false projections of what others state.

I'm going to trust in my intuition and say that you are a transgender. I deduced it the same way I deduce agnostics from anti-theists: the way one argues tell it all.

 

[StephanieSomer]

It is my personal belief that some people just wish they were the opposite sex that they are, and that the myth of transgender in and of itself influences to feel that they actually are the sex they wish to be.
Therefore, they do in fact lie, it's just an unrealized lie.

Personal belief? Based on what? Supposition? Personal preference? Please show me a single serious scientific study which even slightly suggests anything remotely similar to your "personal belief".

I do not lie. If I wanted to, I could easily have never posted a word here about my circumstances and not a single soul would have even considered the fact that I am a transsexual. And, even in my personal dealings with people day to day, if I never told anyone, they'd never know. The only people who DID know without me telling them are the people I have worked with since before my transition. But, I don't make that choice. ANYONE with whom I have any repeated contact in any form is informed, by me, even neighbors who have moved in since AFTER I transitioned. And, how or why would a 2 or 3 year old "wish they were the opposite sex that they are"? They have no concept of sex. But, they DO experience, and UNDERSTAND, gender. They realize, even that early, what their gender is. I knew. It never changed. Even after decades of repeated, and intensely prayerful, attempts to change it to what people expected of me. It remained the same.

 

[StephanieSomer]

See, what you just did is basically call me a liar because I mistook 'estrogen' pills for 'puberty-stalling pills', both of which are equally ridiculous to give to an 11 year old who doesn't even know what it is to be a man or a woman.
And that just shows your determination to turn what is otherwise absurd into something reasonable by making false projections of what others state.

I'm going to trust in my intuition and say that you are a transgender. I deduced it the same way I deduce agnostics from anti-theists: the way one argues tell it all.

Estrogen isn't given to 11 year olds.

Trust your intuition? I've never hid the fact that I am transsexual the entire time I have been on CF. In fact, if you go back and read post #144 in this thread, you will see that I said so in a response to YOU!. Maybe you are proud of your intuition. But, your memory needs some help.