Patience ... why is it so hard?
- Thread starter Smiler33
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<And what does this mean, exactly? How did this "speaking" occur? Audibly? Through consensus among those involved? What? I'm immediately suspicious of anything one says is real but cannot be clearly defined.
"Hath God said?" Unless someone is promoting misleading doctrine, is it not pointless to question whether or not God is speaking to another? Beyond harmful fruits, is it helpful to minister in the realm of doubt and questioning?
Sometimes we find God speaking to us in many forms, from circumstances around us, to one-liners from even worldly radio or TV, something called to mind from the past, to strong impressions, to reoccurring thoughts, trains of thought you cannot seem to get past. After hearing the voice of my beloved, I tend to look into all things for the evidence of His nearness, His "fragrance" against His creation is quite compelling.
At some level, it's less likely that He is not speaking in some form. Whether or not Words come forth. An understanding is birthed, leaving a entire garden of mysteries to discover. It's real enough for Him to confirm with 2 or 3 witnesses.
Clearly defined pieces of a larger puzzles don't always present themselves. They are no less real. God often seems to leave us to connect the dots by faith, watching for His clues and rewards of consolation for walking the path of life successfully and expectantly.
Where is the discouragement in that?
"Hath God said?" Unless someone is promoting misleading doctrine, is it not pointless to question whether or not God is speaking to another? Beyond harmful fruits, is it helpful to minister in the realm of doubt and questioning?
Sometimes we find God speaking to us in many forms, from circumstances around us, to one-liners from even worldly radio or TV, something called to mind from the past, to strong impressions, to reoccurring thoughts, trains of thought you cannot seem to get past. After hearing the voice of my beloved, I tend to look into all things for the evidence of His nearness, His "fragrance" against His creation is quite compelling.
At some level, it's less likely that He is not speaking in some form. Whether or not Words come forth. An understanding is birthed, leaving a entire garden of mysteries to discover. It's real enough for Him to confirm with 2 or 3 witnesses.
Clearly defined pieces of a larger puzzles don't always present themselves. They are no less real. God often seems to leave us to connect the dots by faith, watching for His clues and rewards of consolation for walking the path of life successfully and expectantly.
Where is the discouragement in that?
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
God speaks through the scriptures. Of that there can be no doubt. I just know that He doesn't limit Himself to that mode of communication. I have heard His voice many times. Once or twice, it's been audible. Mostly, it's just the Spirit speaking to mine. I don't know how to describe it. Maybe an example.
I was in a grueling test - one of those that if we'd just stop and think, we'd KNOW it was a test from God, pointing out areas we need to strengthen. But I didn't get it. It was a test of trusting an addictive craving to God and not trying to fight it on my own.
Finally about 2 am, I just shouted out, "Lord, please! Help me with this. I can't do it myself!" By the time I'd take my next breath, it was gone. Just like that, no lingering feelings, nothing but peace. I went up to my room and had this conversation with the Spirit: (The blue is what I heard in my spirit.)
I went upstairs and laid back on the bed, and sighed. I heard, "You make things much harder than they have to be, little one."
"It's a rare gift I have, Lord." I acknowledged back.
It's a very common gift, child.
At that point, I felt an influx of love from God. It was almost like I felt His hand caress my face. Then I heard, "You must learn to use the gifts I have given you, child.
No one could convince me that was not God speaking to me through my spirit.
I have also been shown prophetic things through the Spirit - things that have come true, and have gotten confirmation that other things that He led me to pray about were changed. We have a Spirit-filled prayer group. One girl we were praying for was a homeless daughter of a group member. She chooses to be a "wanderer." We weren't praying about her specifically, but the Spirit showed me her murder.
Her mother standing there, I told what I saw. We prayed for a very long time, until God showed me the same scene, only there were guardian angels around her, and she was not seen by the attacker. The next morning, she called her mother shaken because one of her homeless friends was killed the night before. She described the same alley, the same surroundings, and said that she had just walked by that alley a little while before, and had seen no one in there.
THIS is the God who gave me tongues, and who speaks to and through me. I'll never turn my back on Him because He saved my life, and through me, He's saved other lives. There's no hard feelings, but I wish you could experience what I have.
I was in a grueling test - one of those that if we'd just stop and think, we'd KNOW it was a test from God, pointing out areas we need to strengthen. But I didn't get it. It was a test of trusting an addictive craving to God and not trying to fight it on my own.
Finally about 2 am, I just shouted out, "Lord, please! Help me with this. I can't do it myself!" By the time I'd take my next breath, it was gone. Just like that, no lingering feelings, nothing but peace. I went up to my room and had this conversation with the Spirit: (The blue is what I heard in my spirit.)
I went upstairs and laid back on the bed, and sighed. I heard, "You make things much harder than they have to be, little one."
"It's a rare gift I have, Lord." I acknowledged back.
It's a very common gift, child.
At that point, I felt an influx of love from God. It was almost like I felt His hand caress my face. Then I heard, "You must learn to use the gifts I have given you, child.
No one could convince me that was not God speaking to me through my spirit.
I have also been shown prophetic things through the Spirit - things that have come true, and have gotten confirmation that other things that He led me to pray about were changed. We have a Spirit-filled prayer group. One girl we were praying for was a homeless daughter of a group member. She chooses to be a "wanderer." We weren't praying about her specifically, but the Spirit showed me her murder.
Her mother standing there, I told what I saw. We prayed for a very long time, until God showed me the same scene, only there were guardian angels around her, and she was not seen by the attacker. The next morning, she called her mother shaken because one of her homeless friends was killed the night before. She described the same alley, the same surroundings, and said that she had just walked by that alley a little while before, and had seen no one in there.
THIS is the God who gave me tongues, and who speaks to and through me. I'll never turn my back on Him because He saved my life, and through me, He's saved other lives. There's no hard feelings, but I wish you could experience what I have.
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aiki
Regular Member
I agree with you!
Okay. Why are you so certain it was God speaking to you and not your own mind? I'm not saying it wasn't God speaking to you; I am just very curious about how you know it was. What in that exchange gives you such adamant certainty about with whom you were speaking?
You see, people often respond to these questions by saying, "I just know." But this answer places the whole thing on an utterly subjective level. There is no way to objectively certify that God actually spoke to the person. And Christians aren't the only ones who claim to have had conversations with God. Hindus, Muslims, Mormons - all make the same claim. If "I just know" is the criteria by which one justifies their claim to have spoken with God, how does one say to a non-Christian, one who worships a god which Christians believe to be false, that they haven't in fact heard from God? They, too, can say, "I just know I did."
Again, I am not saying you didn't hear from God in your above example. You may well have. I'd just like to know what the basis is for your confidence that you have.
Wow. Well, here you have some excellent corroboration of the truth of your - what should I call it? - vision. This carries more weight with me because it isn't entirely subjective in nature. Your vision was proved to be true by the testimony of the homeless girl with whom you'd had no contact. Very neat story!
My goodness! I hope you aren't thinking I'm trying to get you to turn your back on God! Absolutely not! I'm just trying to get some clarity in an area where Christians tend to be very foggy. That's all.
Well, you might be surprised to know that God does speak to me, too, though not audibly.
Usually, it is through the strong impression of a verse or passage from His Word in my mind as I am studying the Bible or just going about my day. Sometimes it is through a feeling of deep conviction, that pierces right to the core of my heart. Most often it is simply through the answers to prayer that He gives me. Like you, God has been a balm to my hurts and fears and sorrows. How often I have prayed for God to aid me and He has! Over and over again he has strengthened, stabilized, calmed and reassured me. In His answers to my prayers He "speaks" to me of His love, and attention, and abundant generosity; He teaches me of my need for patience, for gratefulness and for greater faith; He reminds me of His mercy, holiness and great power. No, God is not silent to me - far from it! God's blessings on you, sister.
Selah.
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aiki
Regular Member
I wouldn't be asking my questions if I didn't think they were worth asking.
The "Hath God said" quote is usually cited in reference to how Satan tempts us to doubt God's Word and then to sin. Are you suggesting that this is what I'm doing? I sure hope not.
It is far from pointless to question whether or not someone is, in fact, hearing from God. As I said to stormdancer, not being able to define clearly and objectively whether or not one is hearing from God leaves the whole area wide open for anyone - Muslims Hindus, Mormons, cult leaders, etc. - to make the claim that they are hearing from God.
And how does one teach a new follower of Christ how to hear God when the whole matter for so many Christians is so profoundly subjective? "I just know God spoke to me," or "You'll just know when He does," is completely contrary to the explicit and clear way God has communicated to us in His Word. These vague phrases give no plain, concrete way by which a new Christian can learn to "hear God's voice" and discern whether or not God has truly spoken to them. Such vagueness primes the pump for spiritual confusion or worse, IMO.
Is there anything in Scripture that supports what you've just written above? There is a difference between being reminded of God and His truth by the world around us and actually having a conversation with Him. You don't seem to be making this important distinction...
Obtaining a sense of God's nearness is not the same as having a direct discussion with Him. I'm not challenging whether or not one can be reminded of God but how one can be sure they have heard from Him directly.
Well, this all sounds very nice - and rather meaningless. "An understanding is birthed"? "Garden of mysteries"? What are you talking about?
Then the puzzle won't be assembled into a cohesive, sensible whole, will it?
I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. If a "piece of the puzzle" hasn't "presented itself," then it is necessarily imperceptible and is, for all practical purposes, not real.
What does "connect the dots by faith" even mean? In fact, what does the entire above quotation mean? The more I consider it, the less sense it makes.
I don't recall talking about discouragement...
Selah.
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
I guess the best way to explain it is that it is the same "voice" that I hear when I am reading scripture and it "speaks" to me; He has never steered me away from God or the Bible. He has confirmed through countless ways that it is God speaking.
I do owe you an apology. I run into many trolls on these forums who love nothing better than to jump when someone mentions hearing God or speaking in tongues. I guess I've started jumping first. You are obviously interested in the truth more than pushing what you believe on others, and I did not see that at first. I do apologize.
I do owe you an apology. I run into many trolls on these forums who love nothing better than to jump when someone mentions hearing God or speaking in tongues. I guess I've started jumping first. You are obviously interested in the truth more than pushing what you believe on others, and I did not see that at first. I do apologize.
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stormdancer0
Do not be so open-minded that your brain falls out
aiki, I have been thinking about what you asked - how do I know that it's God speaking to me. "I just know," though it is compelling for me, is of no help to others. So here are some other ways I know.
I have never, and never would consider, calling myself "little one." I was very startled when the title or name was first used by the Spirit, but have grown to love it. I first heard it the night I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which I received having never been in a Pentecostal church or heard anyone speaking in tongues.
His voice sometimes leads me to to crazy stuff - like pick up someone walking along a road and taking them where they need to go. I just don't DO stuff like that. But I knew it was him, and it turns out the lady was VERY hungry, and had kids at home who were hungry as well. God had also arranged for me to have a case of non-perishable food in my car, which I gave to her. I never did remember why I put that food in there. But there's always a peace with it. A peace that the enemy cannot counterfeit.
I've had what is called "words of knowledge," where we are praying for someone, and i just suddenly know something about them. When I didn't say anything, a friend, who is my mentor, didn't even look up. She just pointed to me and said, "God gave you something, girl. Say it." (She's got MAJOR discernment, Lynn does!!) When I did say what God had told me, it kinda freaked the other lady out because it was so on-target.
We were praying for our service men and women, and God showed me first all service people, then police specifically, and narrowed it down again and again, until God was showing me a specific person, in a local city police uniform, gave me the man's rank, and I saw this man. I also felt what he was feeling, which was suicidal. We prayed that man back from wanting to kill himself. By the time we left, the knowledge given to me had changed, and the man was reaching for a Bible, not the sidearm next to it.
All this is of the same voice. I have heard what I thought may be God in my own spirit, but it wasn't. There is ALWAYS an indication in my heart when something just "isn't right."
Again, very little objective evidence, but speaking to God and hearing from His Spirit sustains me through homeschooling three kids - two with special needs - taking care of a disabled husband, and being a visitation pastor, all on my hubby's disability. Maybe your faith doesn't need this. Perhaps you are stronger than me. If so, tell me how!! I need more strength.
It very well could be that God is spoon-feeding me, because I am so stressed and so overwhelmed sometimes. But I'm okay with that. Even when He is correcting me, which He has done a few times VERY directly, I enjoy the relationship.
I have never, and never would consider, calling myself "little one." I was very startled when the title or name was first used by the Spirit, but have grown to love it. I first heard it the night I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which I received having never been in a Pentecostal church or heard anyone speaking in tongues.
His voice sometimes leads me to to crazy stuff - like pick up someone walking along a road and taking them where they need to go. I just don't DO stuff like that. But I knew it was him, and it turns out the lady was VERY hungry, and had kids at home who were hungry as well. God had also arranged for me to have a case of non-perishable food in my car, which I gave to her. I never did remember why I put that food in there. But there's always a peace with it. A peace that the enemy cannot counterfeit.
I've had what is called "words of knowledge," where we are praying for someone, and i just suddenly know something about them. When I didn't say anything, a friend, who is my mentor, didn't even look up. She just pointed to me and said, "God gave you something, girl. Say it." (She's got MAJOR discernment, Lynn does!!) When I did say what God had told me, it kinda freaked the other lady out because it was so on-target.
We were praying for our service men and women, and God showed me first all service people, then police specifically, and narrowed it down again and again, until God was showing me a specific person, in a local city police uniform, gave me the man's rank, and I saw this man. I also felt what he was feeling, which was suicidal. We prayed that man back from wanting to kill himself. By the time we left, the knowledge given to me had changed, and the man was reaching for a Bible, not the sidearm next to it.
All this is of the same voice. I have heard what I thought may be God in my own spirit, but it wasn't. There is ALWAYS an indication in my heart when something just "isn't right."
Again, very little objective evidence, but speaking to God and hearing from His Spirit sustains me through homeschooling three kids - two with special needs - taking care of a disabled husband, and being a visitation pastor, all on my hubby's disability. Maybe your faith doesn't need this. Perhaps you are stronger than me. If so, tell me how!! I need more strength.
It very well could be that God is spoon-feeding me, because I am so stressed and so overwhelmed sometimes. But I'm okay with that. Even when He is correcting me, which He has done a few times VERY directly, I enjoy the relationship.
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<"Hath God said?"
I'm sorry if I offend you by bringing up the analogy. I don't imply that you're the devil! Unless someone is promoting misleading doctrine, is it not pointless to question whether or not God is speaking to another? Beyond harmful fruits, is it helpful to minister in the realm of doubt and questioning? No one can prove it to another.
There's no harm in wanting to search why they believe the Lord is ministering to them a certain way. The Kingdom of God does not admit of observation. How you do go about proving to another that you heard from God. All we have to go by are the fruits, of which only she would know, apart from you witnessing that it was the truth (or not). Look rather at what is said.
<Okay. Why are you so certain it was God speaking to you and not your own mind?
<What in that exchange gives you such adamant certainty about with whom you were speaking?
<You see, people often respond to these questions by saying, "I just know." But this answer places the whole thing on an utterly subjective level.
You do just know. The voice of a stranger they will not follow. When you're the Lord's sheep, you know His voice. Now other spirits do speak, and we're to try the spirit by testing the fruit and the truth against the Word. Since we receive revelation from God a variety of ways, we test everything.
<...As I said to stormdancer, not being able to define clearly and objectively whether or not one is hearing from God leaves the whole area wide open for anyone - Muslims Hindus, Mormons, cult leaders, etc. - to make the claim that they are hearing from God.
It's true that anyone can make that claim. You'll never know either. We can judge what is said and the fruits that it ministers. You cannot clearly define for someone else how God speaks. You can only go by their claims. If the Holy Spirit gives you a big check (disturbance), and you don't witness to it. At that point you might encourage them to examine the fruit. You can point out if it contradicts scripture.
<And how does one teach a new follower of Christ how to hear God when the whole matter for so many Christians is so profoundly subjective?
You know by the fruits. God ministers righteousness, peace, and joy. The enemy does not! He ministers confusion and condemnation. Not to mention wrong doctrine. We judge everything by the fruits. Try acting on what is said. If the Holy Spirit on the inside gives us warning, they'll be a distrubance in your spirit that is uncomfortable. That is not of God. If you're praying for discernment and then act, you'll get a fruit. That fruit will demonstrate whether or not it is of God. If you have God's peace, you're OK. Some things God says for us to do have a timing involved. You'll get a sense of that too if you get ahead of God.
<"I just know God spoke to me," or "You'll just know when He does," is completely contrary to the explicit and clear way God has communicated to us in His Word.
It's additional to reading the Word. He said that His sheep know His voice. You just know. God's Spirit upon your spirit is unmistakeable. If you're not renewed with the leaven of the kingdom, you get a mixture which produces confusion and duality. You always want to work in the leaven of the Kingdom.
<These vague phrases give no plain, concrete way by which a new Christian can learn to "hear God's voice" and discern whether or not God has truly spoken to them. Such vagueness primes the pump for spiritual confusion or worse, IMO.
God primarily gives impressions in your heart, not your mind. Sometimes your mind does receive these things, but it comes into your spirit first. They are moved on in faith.
"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly."
Prov 20:27
<<Sometimes we find God speaking to us in many forms, from circumstances around us, to one-liners from even worldly radio or TV, something called to mind from the past, to strong impressions, to reoccurring thoughts, trains of thought you cannot seem to get past.
<Is there anything in Scripture that supports what you've just written above? There is a difference between being reminded of God and His truth by the world around us and actually having a conversation with Him. You don't seem to be making this important distinction...
We know from scripture that we know His voice. I know from experience that His voice may come on top of potentially anything. You might be reading a paragraph out of a novel. When you read the sentence that is from the Lord, I get a sense in my spirit, that the Word is from the Lord. It's like it's on top of what is heard, seen, or read. You don't hear anything with your ears.
You can ask for confirmations. Ultimately, we are accountable for what He says (not just in the Word). I might be reading in the Bible and something is quickened. I recently read one sentence where fasting was mentioned. That one sentence was all that was quickened and that let me know that I needed to fast. The voice of the Good Shepherd. It's the only scripture you need. Only the Lord can train us to "hear" it. If you're waiting for a "voice" that your ears hear, you'll think that the Good Shepherd has abandoned you, or that you're not really a Christian, because those circumstances are extremely rare. You can get clear sentences in your spirit, not heard by your ears. That too is rarer.
<<After hearing the voice of my beloved, I tend to look into all things for the evidence of His nearness, His "fragrance" against His creation is quite compelling.
<Obtaining a sense of God's nearness is not the same as having a direct discussion with Him. I'm not challenging whether or not one can be reminded of God but how one can be sure they have heard from Him directly.
He speaks to us every day, to our spirits and the fruit is faith (which comes by hearing). It ministers righteous or conviction. The reminders you might get, are all part of something you're receiving. God speaks all of the time and when you get "wind" of Him, you look for Him more intently.
<<At some level, it's less likely that He is not speaking in some form. Whether or not Words come forth. An understanding is birthed, leaving a entire garden of mysteries to discover. It's real enough for Him to confirm with 2 or 3 witnesses.
<Well, this all sounds very nice - and rather meaningless. "An understanding is birthed"? "Garden of mysteries"? What are you talking about?
Your spirit has eyes and ears. Your mind is often left out of the picture. You "know" in your "know'er" (in your spirit) because this is where He lives. He typically teaches precept upon precept. We know from scripture that understanding can be like "until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19
So we know in part, and sometimes the sum of the parts make for understanding. This understanding sometimes comes like the sun rising. You might have "twilight" moments, then the light burns brighter. The Lord gives understanding, but the manner you get it isn't limited to just one way.
I've read sentences of text and as I read the text, the Holy Spirit quickened it (What if someone asks what that means? What can you say?). It's not tangible for someone else to observe and judge. Sometimes the precepts you've been receiving all fall into place and you find yourself walking into a garden of revelation. It starts coming together, and it's right there before you. I relate to that as a garden. It's part of the excitement of walking in the Spirit. It's definitely not meaningless. Sometimes you getting a fuller understanding comes with the right timing.
<Clearly defined pieces of a larger puzzles don't always present themselves.
<Then the puzzle won't be assembled into a cohesive, sensible whole, will it?
Not at first, all at once. Line upon line. The Lord won't let us "figure Him out". We walk by faith and not by sight. We get a little here and there. Often these pieces of the puzzle fit together into an overall understanding.
If you pray in the Spirit, you pray "mysteries". Since God understands the mysteries and answers prayer, and your spirit man receives the answer (not necessarily your mind). You have to pray for understanding, so obviously you don't just understand it all.
<I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. If a "piece of the puzzle" hasn't "presented itself," then it is necessarily imperceptible and is, for all practical purposes, not real.
Not at all. It's part of walking by faith and not by sight.
<What does "connect the dots by faith" even mean? In fact, what does the entire above quotation mean? The more I consider it, the less sense it makes.
You understand some things as you walk. Since you don't understand it all, and get pieces along the way, you're connecting the dots (as you go) is your faith walk. You're going from faith to faith. It makes perfect sense.
<Where is the discouragement in that?
<I don't recall talking about discouragement
You really can't ask someone to quantify whether or not God is speaking to them, because you cannot prove it. What we do is examine what is said, and look at the fruits. If God usually speaks to our spirits and not our minds, often what we receive, we move on by faith. As you walk out your direction, you get more light, from faith to faith. Is it not discouraging for someone to require proof that God has spoken to them.
That is what human understanding does. It requires proof, when faith has the evidence which is not seen on the inside. It comes by hearing. How do you prove that? You can't.
Mormons, JWs, cults, etc. claim to have heard from God. It's pointless to question how they heard, but rather what they heard.
<I don't mean to be antagonistic, but this matter of being spoken to by the Holy Spirit has been used by the Christians around me to promote all sorts of nonsense. At times it has been very destructive.
Whether or not people are deceived or not has nothing to do with a Christian walking in the light. Those in darkness are the ones who are deceived.
<I just get kinda' fed up with how subjective and loosely defined this area is and how, as a result, it is easily corrupted and made to serve selfish, carnal ends.
Just keep your eyes on the throne.
I'm sorry if I offend you by bringing up the analogy. I don't imply that you're the devil! Unless someone is promoting misleading doctrine, is it not pointless to question whether or not God is speaking to another? Beyond harmful fruits, is it helpful to minister in the realm of doubt and questioning? No one can prove it to another.
There's no harm in wanting to search why they believe the Lord is ministering to them a certain way. The Kingdom of God does not admit of observation. How you do go about proving to another that you heard from God. All we have to go by are the fruits, of which only she would know, apart from you witnessing that it was the truth (or not). Look rather at what is said.
<Okay. Why are you so certain it was God speaking to you and not your own mind?
<What in that exchange gives you such adamant certainty about with whom you were speaking?
<You see, people often respond to these questions by saying, "I just know." But this answer places the whole thing on an utterly subjective level.
You do just know. The voice of a stranger they will not follow. When you're the Lord's sheep, you know His voice. Now other spirits do speak, and we're to try the spirit by testing the fruit and the truth against the Word. Since we receive revelation from God a variety of ways, we test everything.
<...As I said to stormdancer, not being able to define clearly and objectively whether or not one is hearing from God leaves the whole area wide open for anyone - Muslims Hindus, Mormons, cult leaders, etc. - to make the claim that they are hearing from God.
It's true that anyone can make that claim. You'll never know either. We can judge what is said and the fruits that it ministers. You cannot clearly define for someone else how God speaks. You can only go by their claims. If the Holy Spirit gives you a big check (disturbance), and you don't witness to it. At that point you might encourage them to examine the fruit. You can point out if it contradicts scripture.
<And how does one teach a new follower of Christ how to hear God when the whole matter for so many Christians is so profoundly subjective?
You know by the fruits. God ministers righteousness, peace, and joy. The enemy does not! He ministers confusion and condemnation. Not to mention wrong doctrine. We judge everything by the fruits. Try acting on what is said. If the Holy Spirit on the inside gives us warning, they'll be a distrubance in your spirit that is uncomfortable. That is not of God. If you're praying for discernment and then act, you'll get a fruit. That fruit will demonstrate whether or not it is of God. If you have God's peace, you're OK. Some things God says for us to do have a timing involved. You'll get a sense of that too if you get ahead of God.
<"I just know God spoke to me," or "You'll just know when He does," is completely contrary to the explicit and clear way God has communicated to us in His Word.
It's additional to reading the Word. He said that His sheep know His voice. You just know. God's Spirit upon your spirit is unmistakeable. If you're not renewed with the leaven of the kingdom, you get a mixture which produces confusion and duality. You always want to work in the leaven of the Kingdom.
<These vague phrases give no plain, concrete way by which a new Christian can learn to "hear God's voice" and discern whether or not God has truly spoken to them. Such vagueness primes the pump for spiritual confusion or worse, IMO.
God primarily gives impressions in your heart, not your mind. Sometimes your mind does receive these things, but it comes into your spirit first. They are moved on in faith.
"The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly."
Prov 20:27
<<Sometimes we find God speaking to us in many forms, from circumstances around us, to one-liners from even worldly radio or TV, something called to mind from the past, to strong impressions, to reoccurring thoughts, trains of thought you cannot seem to get past.
<Is there anything in Scripture that supports what you've just written above? There is a difference between being reminded of God and His truth by the world around us and actually having a conversation with Him. You don't seem to be making this important distinction...
We know from scripture that we know His voice. I know from experience that His voice may come on top of potentially anything. You might be reading a paragraph out of a novel. When you read the sentence that is from the Lord, I get a sense in my spirit, that the Word is from the Lord. It's like it's on top of what is heard, seen, or read. You don't hear anything with your ears.
You can ask for confirmations. Ultimately, we are accountable for what He says (not just in the Word). I might be reading in the Bible and something is quickened. I recently read one sentence where fasting was mentioned. That one sentence was all that was quickened and that let me know that I needed to fast. The voice of the Good Shepherd. It's the only scripture you need. Only the Lord can train us to "hear" it. If you're waiting for a "voice" that your ears hear, you'll think that the Good Shepherd has abandoned you, or that you're not really a Christian, because those circumstances are extremely rare. You can get clear sentences in your spirit, not heard by your ears. That too is rarer.
<<After hearing the voice of my beloved, I tend to look into all things for the evidence of His nearness, His "fragrance" against His creation is quite compelling.
<Obtaining a sense of God's nearness is not the same as having a direct discussion with Him. I'm not challenging whether or not one can be reminded of God but how one can be sure they have heard from Him directly.
He speaks to us every day, to our spirits and the fruit is faith (which comes by hearing). It ministers righteous or conviction. The reminders you might get, are all part of something you're receiving. God speaks all of the time and when you get "wind" of Him, you look for Him more intently.
<<At some level, it's less likely that He is not speaking in some form. Whether or not Words come forth. An understanding is birthed, leaving a entire garden of mysteries to discover. It's real enough for Him to confirm with 2 or 3 witnesses.
<Well, this all sounds very nice - and rather meaningless. "An understanding is birthed"? "Garden of mysteries"? What are you talking about?
Your spirit has eyes and ears. Your mind is often left out of the picture. You "know" in your "know'er" (in your spirit) because this is where He lives. He typically teaches precept upon precept. We know from scripture that understanding can be like "until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19
So we know in part, and sometimes the sum of the parts make for understanding. This understanding sometimes comes like the sun rising. You might have "twilight" moments, then the light burns brighter. The Lord gives understanding, but the manner you get it isn't limited to just one way.
I've read sentences of text and as I read the text, the Holy Spirit quickened it (What if someone asks what that means? What can you say?). It's not tangible for someone else to observe and judge. Sometimes the precepts you've been receiving all fall into place and you find yourself walking into a garden of revelation. It starts coming together, and it's right there before you. I relate to that as a garden. It's part of the excitement of walking in the Spirit. It's definitely not meaningless. Sometimes you getting a fuller understanding comes with the right timing.
<Clearly defined pieces of a larger puzzles don't always present themselves.
<Then the puzzle won't be assembled into a cohesive, sensible whole, will it?
Not at first, all at once. Line upon line. The Lord won't let us "figure Him out". We walk by faith and not by sight. We get a little here and there. Often these pieces of the puzzle fit together into an overall understanding.
If you pray in the Spirit, you pray "mysteries". Since God understands the mysteries and answers prayer, and your spirit man receives the answer (not necessarily your mind). You have to pray for understanding, so obviously you don't just understand it all.
<I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. If a "piece of the puzzle" hasn't "presented itself," then it is necessarily imperceptible and is, for all practical purposes, not real.
Not at all. It's part of walking by faith and not by sight.
<What does "connect the dots by faith" even mean? In fact, what does the entire above quotation mean? The more I consider it, the less sense it makes.
You understand some things as you walk. Since you don't understand it all, and get pieces along the way, you're connecting the dots (as you go) is your faith walk. You're going from faith to faith. It makes perfect sense.
<Where is the discouragement in that?
<I don't recall talking about discouragement
You really can't ask someone to quantify whether or not God is speaking to them, because you cannot prove it. What we do is examine what is said, and look at the fruits. If God usually speaks to our spirits and not our minds, often what we receive, we move on by faith. As you walk out your direction, you get more light, from faith to faith. Is it not discouraging for someone to require proof that God has spoken to them.
That is what human understanding does. It requires proof, when faith has the evidence which is not seen on the inside. It comes by hearing. How do you prove that? You can't.
Mormons, JWs, cults, etc. claim to have heard from God. It's pointless to question how they heard, but rather what they heard.
<I don't mean to be antagonistic, but this matter of being spoken to by the Holy Spirit has been used by the Christians around me to promote all sorts of nonsense. At times it has been very destructive.
Whether or not people are deceived or not has nothing to do with a Christian walking in the light. Those in darkness are the ones who are deceived.
<I just get kinda' fed up with how subjective and loosely defined this area is and how, as a result, it is easily corrupted and made to serve selfish, carnal ends.
Just keep your eyes on the throne.
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