Papal Infallibility - FACTS

[LittleLambofJesus]

I took my mom to the dentist today and while there I saw a magazine that looked interesting called "The Trumpet".

I am going to order a free subscription to it but I notice they also have it online. Anyone ever read it?
I found this article on Rome and the Pope interesting:

Working to Inspire an Empire | Columns | theTrumpet.com by the Philadelphia Church of God

*snip*

After assuming office, Pope Benedict xvi began placing handpicked conservative troops in the top spots within the Catholic Curia (governing body). He eliminated two senior positions and chose a notoriously shy, controllable man to fill his old job as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

He switched out the cardinal in charge of Vatican relations with the developing world, replaced the Vatican’s longstanding press officer with a Jesuit priest, and shuffled the Vatican City governate and foreign-policy offices. He also replaced the Vatican secretary of state with his trusted former deputy in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith..........

Today we see Pope Benedict working feverishly to provide that spiritual lifeblood of European unity. The resulting wave of evangelism will sweep the Continent into Rome’s arms in a bonding of church and state.
It is all now so close to coming to pass. We are witnessing the beginning of the seventh and final resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire. •

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

"I'm the only one who agrees with me" is hardly a statement of Christian unity. .

Exactly

I agree. So, why should anyone be impressed that the RCC has a unity of ONE: only itself? A "unity" of ONE: self alone with self alone? Why does self ALONE agreeing with self ALONE indicate ANYTHING about Christian unity? Sounds like the antithesis of unity.

Your religious ideas are unique to yourself.

If that's correct, then it's EXACTLY the same in the RCC.
The RCC has unity with one and only one. Itself.


Now, my DENOMINATION has complete unity with itself (officially anyway) in all matters in which it declares where unity is necessary. Just like the RCC does. Unlike yours, mine is not a unity of one (it is in doctrinal agreement with several hundred others) but the distinction is probably not significant to our little discussion here.

Do you think the LDS MUST be dogmatically correct because the LDS alone agrees with the LDS? If not, when why do you think the RCC is dogmatically correct because the RCC alone agrees with the RCC? And if you think that the RCC reveals Christian unity because it agrees with only one - itself, then doesn't the LDS also reveal equal Christian unity becausse it too agrees only with one - itself? You seem to have a strange sense of "unity" - the absolute lack thereof proves that it exists?





.

 

[prodromos]

Oh, please. The orthodox itself has been many times divided, REMAIN divided and continuing to divide.

We are? That's news to me. My parish is Greek but I am in full communion with the Antiochians, the Russians, the Bulgarians, the Serbs, the Georgians, the Palestinians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Norwegians, etc. How exactly are we divided and continuing to divide?

John

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We are? That's news to me. My parish is Greek but I am in full communion with the Antiochians, the Russians, the Bulgarians, the Serbs, the Georgians, the Palestinians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Norwegians, etc. How exactly are we divided and continuing to divide?

John

I would love to hear the Greek spoken with an Australian accent!

 

[tadoflamb]

I agree. So, why should anyone be impressed that the RCC has a unity of ONE: only itself?

Take a look at Catholic charity. Around here, in spite of being awash in a sea of Protestant denominations, there's nothing else like it.

Of course, I can understand. With that kind of division it's going to be difficult to provide much of anything. Most of these denominations are so small it's no wonder. Often times, it's these people who are coming to the Catholic Church for help.

I even had a couple Lutherans who wanted us to pay their rent the other day.

Then there's the 1.1 billion Catholics in something like 242 different countries, along with the College of Cardinals, who with the Bishop are Rome are able to teach infallibly as well.

Then there's the Saints. Nothing like it in Protestant Christianity, unless you want to include Santa Claus or Kris Kringle as you might call him.

Then..... we might look over at the Lutheran denominations and the splits their experiencing due to their acceptance of actively gay clergy. It was in the paper last week. No infallibility, just more division.

The PCA is experiencing the same thing.

As are the Episcopalians..........

And you want me to bow down to all that?

 

[Albion]

I took my mom to the dentist today and while there I saw a magazine that looked interesting called "The Trumpet".

I am going to order a free subscription to it but I notice they also have it online. Anyone ever read it?

Yes. It's interesting. The old Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert W. Armstrong and well remembered by some people because of the TV preaching of his son Garner Ted Armstrong, fell into pieces after HWA's death. The part that is the truest to the old WWCofG doctrinally is the Philadelphia Church of God. The name, WWCofG, still exists, but that successor to the old church has repudiated most of what HWA taught...which makes it and the Philadelphia Church of God rivals today.

 

[tadoflamb]

Yes. It's interesting. The old Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert W. Armstrong and well remembered by some people because of the TV preaching of his son Garner Ted Armstrong, fell into pieces after HWA's death. The part that is the truest to the old WWCofG doctrinally is the Philadelphia Church of God. The name, WWCofG, still exists, but that successor to the old church has repudiated most of what HWA taught...which makes it and the Philadelphia Church of God rivals today.

I'm guessing none of them had the ability to teach infallibly either.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes. It's interesting. The old Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert W. Armstrong and well remembered by some people because of the TV preaching of his son Garner Ted Armstrong, fell into pieces after HWA's death. The part that is the truest to the old WWCofG doctrinally is the Philadelphia Church of God. The name, WWCofG, still exists, but that successor to the old church has repudiated most of what HWA taught...which makes it and the Philadelphia Church of God rivals today.

Thanks. The only time I read magazines or the newspaper is either at the dentist's or doctor's office

 

[Albion]

Take a look at Catholic charity. Around here, in spite of being awash in a sea of Protestant denominations, there's nothing else like it.

I don't think we can take seriously a claim that the Catholic charities are more active than, say, the Salvation Army! But if you contrast one single church with thousands of others which have little to do with each other, you can make it seem to stand out. Maybe the Salvation Army or other churches that are very active in charitable work should use your argument, saying "Look at us and then consider that the Catholics are just one of a sea of non-Salvationists. There's nothing like it (the SA).

Of course, I can understand. With that kind of division it's going to be difficult to provide much of anything.

Oh yeh, we need to include that.

"With that kind of division--Catholic, EO, OO, Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans, Pentecostals, etc. standing in contrast to OUR church, you can see that they're not going to provide much of anything."

Most of these denominations are so small it's no wonder. Often times, it's these people who are coming to the Catholic Church for help.

Did it ever occur to you that they are not dummies and would naturally come to the largest and wealtiest church in the world, whether or not it's more likely to give out more than the next church?

Then there's the 1.1 billion Catholics in something like 242 different countries, along with the College of Cardinals, who with the Bishop are Rome are able to teach infallibly as well.

Every cult's leader is believed by its followers to be infallible, also.

Then there's the Saints. Nothing like it in Protestant Christianity, unless you want to include Santa Claus or Kris Kringle as you might call him.

Most of them are saints only because your church has decided to call them that. If other churches don't take it upon themselves to decide for God who is in heaven and who is not, does that minimize the position of the saints generally?

Then..... we might look over at the Lutheran denominations and the splits their experiencing due to their acceptance of actively gay clergy. It was in the paper last week. No infallibility, just more division.

The PCA is experiencing the same thing.

As are the Episcopalians..........

And you want me to bow down to all that?

Gosh no. When you're through bragging on humans and human endeavors, we'd want you to bow down to God alone.

 

[Albion]

Thanks. The only time I read magazines or the newspaper is either at the dentist's or doctor's office

Well, that's about to change. If you took the free subscription to The Trumpet, it'll be showing up in your own mailbox, I presume.

 

[Albion]

I'm guessing none of them had the ability to teach infallibly either.

Wrong. Most of these churches do consider HWA to have spoken infallibly, certainly the Philadelphia CofG does.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, that's about to change. If you took the free subscription to The Trumpet, it'll be showing up in your own mailbox, I presume.

Yeah....our mailman will probably think he is delivering it to our house by mistake as we do not get magazines or newspapers

 

[tadoflamb]

I don't think we can take seriously a claim that the Catholic charities are more active than, say, the Salvation Army! But if you contrast one single church with thousands of others which have little to do with each other, you can make it seem to stand out. Maybe the Salvation Army or other churches that are very active in charitable work should use your argument, saying "Look at us and then consider that the Catholics are just one of a sea of non-Salvationists. There's nothing like it (the SA).

Yes, thank God for the Salvation Army. That actually is one Protestant denomination which we've been able to have a cooperative relationship with. Usually, when dealing with Protestant denominations, it's usually them asking us for something, since they are unable to provide any assistance for their own themselves.

Did it ever occur to you that they are not dummies and would naturally come to the largest and wealtiest church in the world, whether or not it's more likely to give out more than the next church?

And what's going on in the Catholic Church which makes that possible? What has kept us together? What's unique about Catholicism that would make us the largest and wealthiest Church in the world?

The people I go to church with aren't necessarily rich, and yet we're able to offer much more than the dozen or so Protestant denominations within our parish boundaries, combined.

Every cult's leader is believed by its followers to be infallible, also.

Excuse me?

Most of them are saints only because your church has decided to call them that. If other churches don't take it upon themselves to decide for God who is in heaven and who is not, does that minimize the position of the saints generally?

Oh? It seems to me Protestants know exactly who's in and who's going to heaven. Themselves primarily.

Gosh no. When you're through bragging on humans and human endeavors, we'd want you to bow down to God alone.

Don't you know that anything we're able to accomplish is credited to God alone? Don't let your finger pointing at me be an excuse for a lack of Protestant charity.

 

[tadoflamb]

Wrong. Most of these churches do consider HWA to have spoken infallibly, certainly the Philadelphia CofG does.

Obviously he didn't. They've divided along with the rest of Protestant Christianity.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well twas a very informative thread and not much more I can add so I will unsubscribe.
God bless all

LLOJ.........speaks "Infallibly"

 

[Albion]

Obviously he didn't. They've divided along with the rest of Protestant Christianity.

Not "obviously." That there are splits in his following doesn't prove in the least that he couldn't have been infallible. After all, the Catholic churches are also split, and only one, the Roman Catholic Church, thinks that its Pope is infallible, so that situation is no different from the Churches of God.

 

[Albion]

Obviously he didn't. They've divided along with the rest of Protestant Christianity.

Unfortunately, you're wrong about that, too. These churches are not Protestant, so they cannot be part of "the rest of Protestant Christianity."

 

[tadoflamb]

Unfortunately, you're wrong about that, too. These churches are not Protestant, so they cannot be part of "the rest of Protestant Christianity."

True, 500 years after the revolt the term, Protestant is very ill-defined. Probably another effect of the inability to teach infallibly.

But I like to be helpful and so to simplify things a little bit, I define Protestants as such:

If you're a Christian...

and you're not Catholic...

and your not Orthodox...

you are a Protestant.

Anyway you look at it, the CofG of Philadelphia just another product of Protestantism and the division which is it's hallmark.

Just keeping it simple.

 

[squint]

We are? That's news to me. My parish is Greek but I am in full communion with the Antiochians, the Russians, the Bulgarians, the Serbs, the Georgians, the Palestinians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Norwegians, etc. How exactly are we divided and continuing to divide?
John

Uh, from the RCC by not submitting to Papal infallibility? And let's not scratch 'n sniff too hard on the systems of the others.

 

[squint]

By your own confession you don't have the charism to speak infallibly.

One can speak and be in Truth by taking the facts Truth has to say. Taking those same facts by denial and infallibility simultaneously just doesn't seem to jive for some strange reason.

When Paul spoke truth, he did so with the presence of a DEVIL put upon his flesh. Didn't seem to bother him too much to admit the TRUTH of that while speaking eh?

Why should I pay any attention to what you consider scriptural truth?

It might seem that what was applicable to Paul or to Peter or John may also be applicable to us? Is that a fair comparison?

You are singular in your beliefs,

Nice try. I am willing to state that the condition of EVIL PRESENT with mankind is more than confirmed by scriptures AND by reality. Singular....heh heh heh.

and yet you take the authority to teach me on matters and moral and faith?

Nice pirouette, but swinging the subject matter to personal attack ain't gonna make the factual observations go away.

Can you see how backwards that is to me?

Hey, deprogramming is a tough gig. Seems to be a lot of 'built in resistance' to simple scriptural facts. What can I say?

s