Palestinians used Bible as toilet paper.

[Praise2God]

Oh so the Muslims I met are like Arafat, they say one thing, but then go speak to their friends in Arabic about how evil everyone else is. I think that makes me laugh out loud actually.

You are gullible

 

[Fineous_Reese]

Well none do.

none at all or none of those you know?

and how would you know either way?

 

[rahma]

maybe your muslim friends don't take part in using taqiyya and kitman but that doesn't mean none do

I *heart* when non muslims learn an islamic term, completely twist it and then speak about it like they are authorities.

Taqiyya

Kitman - I'm linking to a muslim website because these terms were being misused on this board, and were not brought up by me.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

I *heart* when non muslims learn an islamic term, completely twist it and then speak about it like they are authorities.

Taqiyya

Kitman - I'm linking to a muslim website because these terms were being misused on this board, and were not brought up by me.

no offense rahma, as much as i know ya i like ya but history speaks louder than these websites as there are folks out there who go beyond the 'guidelines and limits' mentioned by wikipedia.

edit: thanks for the *heart* too but i didn't just learn the terms, or twist them, or speak as an authority

 

[rahma]

no offense rahma, as much as i know ya i like ya but history speaks louder than these websites as there are folks out there who go beyond the 'guidelines and limits' mentioned by wikipedia.

I've read a lot these last few years, and read discussions between supporters of terrorists, and I can honestly say I have never seen anyone speak of using taqiya or kitman.

And, it's quite insulting to the american muslim community to have people speculate that we're all secretly plotting against America. That holds about as much water as the theories that catholics would turn the country over to the Pope if one ever became president.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

I've read a lot these last few years, and read discussions between supporters of terrorists, and I can honestly say I have never seen anyone speak of using taqiya or kitman.

And, it's quite insulting to the american muslim community to have people speculate that we're all secretly plotting against America. That holds about as much water as the theories that catholics would turn the country over to the Pope if one ever became president.

talking about using taqiya and kitman kind of defeats the purpose, no?

please realize i'm not saying you're all plotting, i'm also not saying none are. as we've had catholic presidents and haven't been turned over to the pope i can see why that doesn't hold water

 

[Praise2God]

I've read a lot these last few years, and read discussions between supporters of terrorists, and I can honestly say I have never seen anyone speak of using taqiya or kitman.

And, it's quite insulting to the american muslim community to have people speculate that we're all secretly plotting against America. That holds about as much water as the theories that catholics would turn the country over to the Pope if one ever became president.

rahma, no offense to you or your religion. But Fineous_Reese is right. History speaks louder than anyone's opinion right now. And 9-11 didn't help your cause either. I know that there are Muslims out there who don't share "kill all infidels" idea. But it's difficult to think otherwise right now. Maybe time will heal all wounds.

 

[Doctrine1st]

rahma, no offense to you or your religion. But Fineous_Reese is right. History speaks louder than anyone's opinion right now. And 9-11 didn't help your cause either. I know that there are Muslims out there who don't share "kill all infidels" idea. But it's difficult to think otherwise right now. Maybe time will heal all wounds.

History tells us the no faith has clean hands.

 

[rahma]

rahma, no offense to you or your religion. But Fineous_Reese is right. History speaks louder than anyone's opinion right now.

No, no offense at all, you just think we're all bloody terrorists.

And 9-11 didn't help your cause either. I know that there are Muslims out there who don't share "kill all infidels" idea. But it's difficult to think otherwise right now. Maybe time will heal all wounds.

So, I should look at Abu Ghuraib and think that America is evil. And I should look at the Holocaust and think Germany is evil. And I should look at Timothy McVeigh and think that middle age, ex military white men are evil.

Sure, no offense, you just hate my religion. No offense.

 

[rahma]

talking about using taqiya and kitman kind of defeats the purpose, no?

Then how does Daniel Pipes et al know that we're hiding things and being deceptive? He just reads out minds, I'm sure.

 

[rahma]

All right, now that I've vented a bit, the problem I have with Daniel Pipes et al informing the american public about "taqiyya" and "kitman" is that they make it seem like it is a central tenant of Islam, and that from the day our children learn how to walk, we teach them to lie and decieve.

Deception has never been a part of any of my religious education, and I've taken the traditional hanafi sunni approach to fiqh and tassawuf. I'm studying the same books, and following the same methods that previous talibat have studied for the previous 1200 years of the hanafi madhab's existance.


Muslims don't meet in secret little rooms and plot on how to lie to their nextdoor neighbors, and by spreading these myths about taqiyya being an integral part of Islam, it does a great disservise to interfaith relations.

 

[rahma]

But then again, I suppose I could be practicing taqiyya now. Mwahahaha, you'll never know



*sigh*

 

[Praise2God]

No, no offense at all, you just think we're all bloody terrorists.

Nope. Just the ones that want and willing to kill anyone who are not Muslims.

So, I should look at Abu Ghuraib and think that America is evil. And I should look at the Holocaust and think Germany is evil. And I should look at Timothy McVeigh and think that middle age, ex military white men are evil.

If you support Saddam Hussein. That's your perogative. I don't think the US 100% innocent. But it has done more good than evil no matter how much the liberals want to drag it down.

Sure, no offense, you just hate my religion. No offense.

I don't hate your religion. Just as I don't hate Budhism, Toasim, Hinduism, etc. But with your religion I am more suspicious and more defensive.

 

[Fineous_Reese]

Then how does Daniel Pipes et al know that we're hiding things and being deceptive? He just reads out minds, I'm sure.

hadn't heard about him yet, just read up on the think tank nomination but haven't gone further yet.

read minds? that'd be a neat trick indeedy. more likely he studies history. there's about 1400 years of muslim history to sort through, compared to the 2000 years of christian history it's a lot bloodier, well, in who spills the blood that is. sorry if you feel like a victim here but the nazis in germany were evil, the american soldiers who care not for their helpless fellow humans are evil, the men of the cloth that molest young boys are evil, the religious zealots who used torture during inquisition were evil, and the folks that blow up innocents be they middle aged, white americans or muslim suicide bombers, are evil. i don't support any of these groups of folks, do you?

 

[Ninja Turtles]

hadn't heard about him yet, just read up on the think tank nomination but haven't gone further yet.

read minds? that'd be a neat trick indeedy. more likely he studies history. there's about 1400 years of muslim history to sort through, compared to the 2000 years of christian history it's a lot bloodier, well, in who spills the blood that is. sorry if you feel like a victim here but the nazis in germany were evil, the american soldiers who care not for their helpless fellow humans are evil, the men of the cloth that molest young boys are evil, the religious zealots who used torture during inquisition were evil, and the folks that blow up innocents be they middle aged, white americans or muslim suicide bombers, are evil. i don't support any of these groups of folks, do you?

I don't think the issue is whether someone supports these groups, it's the generalization of others that everyone or a large portion of the groups acts a certain way. One Muslim does something and all of them are blamed for it.

 

[Ave Maria]

What is our world coming to? Lord help us. Mary pray for us.

I wonder what kind of publicity it'd get if a Christian did that to the Koran? Not that I'd ever do that. I try not to be disrespectful.

 

[Norseman]

I'm reminded of the quote "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth has time to get its pants on."

 

[Billnew]

I have a rare disease that makes me almost clueless to sarcasm (unless it literary hits me on the nose) and prone to misspelling and mispronounsing every other word.

cheers

I din't think that happened unti later on in life. I have ben acused of misspelling a few werds lately.
But I am getting old. (and two daughters driving me crazy helps)

 

[Fineous_Reese]

I don't think the issue is whether someone supports these groups, it's the generalization of others that everyone or a large portion of the groups acts a certain way. One Muslim does something and all of them are blamed for it.

i do think we have an issue if folks support those groups, why do you believe otherwise? how large does a portion have to be before the rest of the group takes action against them for actions that cause dishonor for all?

 

[rahma]

hadn't heard about him yet, just read up on the think tank nomination but haven't gone further yet.

If you've read articles on Taqiyya and Kitman which have been circulating on rightwing websites, then you've read something started by Daniel Pipes and his crowd.

read minds? that'd be a neat trick indeedy. more likely he studies history. there's about 1400 years of muslim history to sort through, compared to the 2000 years of christian history it's a lot bloodier, well, in who spills the blood that is.

Really? While I'm certainly no history expert, I would be willing to bet $10 that christians and muslims have equally bloody histories.