Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[pgp_protector]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/
Club was self described as the "Hottest gay nightclub in Orlando "

Approximately 20 people are dead inside Pulse, a gay nightclub,Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Sunday morning, just hours after a shooter opened fire in the club. At least 42 people have been transported for medical treatment, he said.

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[Albion]

Apparently, "gay nightclub" is a euphemism in this case. One problem faced by the SWAT team, etc., reportedly concerned the logistics of dealing with a building housing so many little rooms.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Chief John Mina has his hands full this week...this comes not long after the shooting of that Singer less than 48 hours ago.

Thus far, they still haven't found a motive in that case...

However in this case, it appears the feds will be taking the case off of their hands as they have reason to believe this was an act of terrorism.

Per CNN's article:
The shooter is not from the Orlando area, Mina said.
Orlando authorities said they consider the violence an act of domestic terror. The FBI is involved. While investigators are exploring all angles, they "have suggestions the individual has leanings towards Islamic terrorism, but right now we can't say definitely," said Ron Hopper, assistant special agent in charge of the FBI's Orlando bureau.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Apparently, "gay nightclub" is a euphemism in this case. One problem faced by the SWAT team, etc., reportedly concerned the logistics of dealing with a building housing so many little rooms.

Yeah, ok. For one thing, almost every residential house ever built is made up of little rooms. What kind of swat team can't handle a house? Second, pretty much every bar I've ever been in has a bunch of little rooms in the back, and most have VIP rooms. This one doesn't look any different:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/pulse-orlando-orlando

 

[Albion]

Yeah, ok. For one thing, almost every residential house ever built is made up of little rooms. What kind of swat team can't handle a house? Second, pretty much every bar I've ever been in has a bunch of little rooms in the back, and most have VIP rooms. This one doesn't look any different

It's a commercial building, not a residence.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Apparently, "gay nightclub" is a euphemism in this case.

In doing some quick searches, it appears to just be a regular gay nightclub...they might have some smaller rooms in the back, ...but it appears to be on the up & up.

Standard club environment like any other... bad techno/house music, $8 beers, people watching TV & socializing...3 women sitting at the end of the bar either A) hoping to convert one of the good looking gay guys, or B) looking to go out drinking in a club without getting hit on every 5 seconds.

etc... etc...

 

[Albion]

Hey. I was just passing on what the news reports and the police said was a reason they didn't storm the place earlier than they did. If they'd only decided on the basis of this one picture of one room that you presented to us, maybe they would have chosen differently.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Forget the swat team, what this situation need was just a good guy with a gun inside the nightclub with the shooter...

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I said this would happen. I said with all the LGBT stuff happening that some extremist muslim would go on a shooting rampage. They (the more extreme ones) are willing to kill anyone. This is why I tell LGBT, its not christians with words that you have to worry about. Terrorists hate us all alike. Lets focus less on what we say and more of the actions from other groups who prefer violence over words.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Hey. I was just passing on what the news reports and the police said was a reason they didn't storm the place earlier than they did. If they'd only decided on the basis of this one picture you presented, maybe they would have chosen differently.

According to their website (which is loading extremely slow...likely due to a million people all trying to research the case) and other reviews, they have 4 smaller themed-VIP rooms in the back.

1) a digital & light immersion experience (IE: bad techno music)

2) two rooms geared toward "luxury libations" (IE: over priced drinks)

3) one private party room that can be rented out

Even with that environment though...it could be a potentially tough situation for SWAT...though, it is what swat is trained for. If there was still loud music playing, and a low-light environment, it makes it tricky for SWAT to tell the good guys from the bad guy in all of the chaos.

 

[Goonie]

Hey. I was just passing on what the news reports and the police said was a reason they didn't storm the place earlier than they did. If they'd only decided on the basis of this one picture of one room that you presented to us, maybe they would have chosen differently.

My local pub, consists of a series of small rooms. Your rushing to judgement based on too little evidence, and just a bit of bias - if this was a run of the mill nightclub and the police had given the same reason would you have jumped to the same conclusion?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Forget the swat team, what this situation need was just a good guy with a gun inside the nightclub with the shooter...

That seems to be the go-to snarky response for gun control advocates these days from what I can tell...

While I'm sure these gentlemen might have a different view on it:

but that aside

...like I mentioned before, we shouldn't be discussing the efficacy of carrying a firearm for self defense based on whether or not it's effective in a rampage/mass-shooter type scenario...we know it isn't.

...but immediately jumping to that form of reductio ad absurdum would be like mocking a person for owning a fire extinguisher because "you can't put out a forest fire with it".

A gay person arming themselves isn't effective for stopping a situation like what happened in the club...it's effective for when they're walking from a club to their car one night and 2 anti-gay people have the wise idea of "hey, let's go beat up the f*g!".

To expound upon my fire example...carrying a gun for defensive purposes is like a fire extinguisher...it's not meant to put out big massive fires, it's meant for smaller ones.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

That seems to be the go-to snarky response for gun control advocates these days from what I can tell...

While I'm sure these gentlemen might have a different view on it:

but that aside

...like I mentioned before, we shouldn't be discussing the efficacy of carrying a firearm for self defense based on whether or not it's effective in a rampage/mass-shooter type scenario...we know it isn't.

...but immediately jumping to that form of reductio ad absurdum would be like mocking a person for owning a fire extinguisher because "you can't put out a forest fire with it".

The fact that you need to be having these kinds of conversations in America is indicative of the horrendous problems that you have with gun culture.

A gay person arming themselves isn't effective for stopping a situation like what happened in the club...it's effective for when they're walking from a club to their car one night and 2 anti-gay people have the wise idea of "hey, let's go beat up the f*g!".

Should it be normal to arm yourself for a journey from a club to a car?

 

[pgp_protector]

Now they're reporting 50 dead
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/12/shooting-orlando-club/85785254/

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[ThatRobGuy]

The fact that you need to be having these kinds of conversations in America is indicative of the horrendous problems that you have with gun culture.

Not really...a culture of a strong belief in the absolute right to self defense isn't a bad thing in my opinion.

If you deny someone the means of self-defense, you deny them the right of self defense.

If there's a 130lbs woman, and there's a 210lbs man who wishes to assault her...if you remove all forms of equalizers from the equation, she's a sitting duck.

Should it be normal to arm yourself for a journey from a club to a car?

In a perfect world...no. But it shouldn't be normal for someone to try to hurt someone else because they don't like their lifestyle...and it shouldn't be normal for someone to walk up to someone at an ATM and pull a knife out and say "give me your money"

...so as long as those two things (among others) exist in our society, asking someone to give up an equalizer is pretty much asking them to succumb to people who are bigger & stronger than them.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Not really...a culture of a strong belief in the absolute right to self defense isn't a bad thing in my opinion.

If you deny someone the means of self-defense, you deny them the right of self defense.

If there's a 130lbs woman, and there's a 210lbs man who wishes to assault her...if you remove all forms of equalizers from the equation, she's a sitting duck.

So if you have a gun on your belt, and I have a gun on my belt and I point my gun at the back of your head what good is a strong belief in self defense going to do? Seems to me having a firearm for self defense is only going to be useful in a handful of situations. Yet judging by the number of massacres and fire arms related deaths you have are paying a hefty price for this right.

I think it would be more useful at looking at the reasons of why America needs to have these frequent conversations about self defense.

If there's a 130lbs woman, and there's a 210lbs man who wishes to assault her...if you remove all forms of equalizers from the equation, she's a sitting duck.

In a perfect world...no. But it shouldn't be normal for someone to try to hurt someone else because they don't like their lifestyle...and it shouldn't be normal for someone to walk up to someone at an ATM and pull a knife out and say "give me your money"

...so as long as those two things (among others) exist in our society, asking someone to give up an equalizer is pretty much asking them to succumb to people who are bigger & stronger than them.

Where does it end? What a bout a 210lbs who is assaulted by another 210lb man who is a black belt in BJJ and heavy hands? There are always people bigger and stronger than you.

Will America not be safe unless every man women and child has a weapon on their hip?

 

[TheQuietRiot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308

Death toll rises to 50.

It only seems to be getting worse for you yanks.

A young pop star gunned down outside whilst signing autographs for fans by a maniac with a gun.

50 people butchered inside a nightclub by a maniac with a gun.

No other 1st world country has these problems like the US does.

And I don't see any solutions for you.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

The gun debate has issues. Many say we shouldn't have guns because of this. The problem is that not ENOUGH of us have guns to stop things like this. Alot are for gun rights yet don't own one. If we were mostly all armed, people like this would be killed right away.

Now some say without guns this stuff wouldn't happen. Not true. If you have a plan on your mind to do something evil.... it doens't matter if a gun is available or not. Anything can be use to kill. Lets say guns were banned currently and this shooter didn't have one. His next step probably would have been to drive his car into the club with a homemade bomb and blow it up. Or maybe use some kind of gas to known people out in there then kill them with knives. Any number of scenarios like that. Mass murder will happen no matter what. Sure, having a gun makes it super easy. But its doable with anything.

And many also say our country has alot of mass shootings and theirs does not. But what if you look at violence over all? Ok so maybe we have a mas shooting every year or two. SO lets say about 65 people every year or two from mass shootings are killed. In your country in two years period WAYYYYY more are killed by one on one violence. Killing cannot be stopped unless your willing to ban everything from guns, cars, knives, tolls, rocks, gas, cats, trees, pennies...etc. Theres no way to avoid this stuff.

In this case it was a assault rifle. As we speak a murder is being committed elsewhere in the world with another weapon (maybe a its a knife). I think its the fact its a "mass" killing that scares people more and hence we want to ban guns. I never see anyone wanting to ban knives despite how often they are used to kill people.

 

[expos4ever]

Forget the swat team, what this situation need was just a good guy with a gun inside the nightclub with the shooter...

Oh please. This argument is absurd. In the chaos of a mass shooting, the last thing we need are a bunch of non-professional would-be Rambos with guns.

Only in the United States would such an idea have any traction whatsoever.

 

[Goonie]

Oh please. This argument is absurd. In the chaos of a mass shooting, the last thing we need are a bunch of non-professional would-be Rambos with guns.

Only in the United States would such an idea have any traction whatsoever.

I think he was being ironic.