Ordainment

[gasman64]

Let me begin by apologizing for my attitude. Can you two forgive me and we proceed into a decent discussion?

Let me secondly ask this, do neither of you belive God can call a younger man to minister? And that there may be certain situations in God's will with which he would need to be raised to a fast degree? I can tell you, i feel like ive had a whole years lessons in about 2 months. God has took the time to show me some very important lessons i need to know. I learn something EVERY Tuesday and almost every Sunday. Both church's are VERY intent on teaching me the right way on things.

I have seen it when the pastor takes a young fella under his wing but they are usually in their 30's and family men by the time they become pastors. I have seen younger, but it is rare and their father, the previous pastor has handed the reigns over, which is nepotism. And caused alot of issues with much of the congregation leaving due to a lack of trust.Not a positive result. You can be called but training takes a while in real life.
Don't be discouraged. We are elders. Who knows what wonderful things God can do with you. I was a young man in the Lord too. Promotion comes from the Lord, but the dealings of God go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Go hard, but be prepared. Timothy was over 40 when Paul told him not to despise the days of his youth. You can still minister and do good works, but leading a church is not likely. You might go for an associates position. Youth pastor. But you would likely need a degree.

 

[RLM0501]

I have seen it when the pastor takes a young fella under his wing but they are usually in their 30's and family men by the time they become pastors. I have seen younger, but it is rare and their father, the previous pastor has handed the reigns over, which is nepotism. And caused alot of issues with much of the congregation leaving due to a lack of trust.Not a positive result. You can be called but training takes a while in real life.
Don't be discouraged. We are elders. Who knows what wonderful things God can do with you. I was a young man in the Lord too. Promotion comes from the Lord, but the dealings of God go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Go hard, but be prepared. Timothy was over 40 when Paul told him not to despise the days of his youth. You can still minister and do good works, but leading a church is not likely. You might go for an associates position. Youth pastor. But you would likely need a degree.

My friend if you only knew the fear of that i have, but sometimes we just have to trust that it is in God's hands and whatever is his will is what must be done. We just have to pray hard and do what he asks of us. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[Episaw]

I was involved in a ministry role with young people in the church for several years in my 20's. I moved away from that and came back to it several years later in the role of teaching in a Christian School.

I said to my wife I could not believe how rude and disrespectful Christian young people had become (she taught at the same school).

The fact is we produce after our own kind. I was teachable and obedient to my leaders so when I became a leader, my young people were teachable and obedient to me.

Today, I have a feeling that leadership is being disobedient to the Lord so those under them are disobedient and disrespectful. They will only do what they want to do.

A true story for you. A teenage girl was saved at the age of 15. She attended the church and her unsaved parents weren't too happy about that so they told her she was not allowed to attend meetings.

What did she do? She obeyed her parents, much as she did not want to. They could not stop her being a Christian and she exhibited all the best of Christianity to her parents in the home.

It took 12 months but her parents noticed what a changed girl she was and how submissive and obedient to them she was that they rescinded their decision, ended up visiting the church and becoming Christians themselves.

It is not ministry that we should focus on and pursue, it is CHARACTER and this girl at the age of 15, had buckets of it. If you have the character, the ministry will happen in due course.

 

[Episaw]

Let me secondly ask this, do neither of you belive God can call a younger man to minister? And that there may be certain situations in God's will with which he would need to be raised to a fast degree? I can tell you, i feel like ive had a whole years lessons in about 2 months. God has took the time to show me some very important lessons i need to know. I learn something EVERY Tuesday and almost every Sunday. Both church's are VERY intent on teaching me the right way on things.

There is a saying that leaders are readers. Encouraged by my Sunday School leaders, I devoured any book that was the story of men and women who had been called into ministry all over the world. People like C.T.Studd, Hudson Taylor, David Livingstone, Willy Burton, Nat Saint, Billy Graham, William Booth, Dwight Moody, Derek Prince, David DuPlessis, Gerald Coates, Roger Forster, A.A. Allen, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John and Carol Arnott, Michael Harper, Jimmy Swaggart, Jimmy Bakker, John Lake to name a few.

In other words, I read about the good the bad and the ugly. If there was book to be read about someone , I read it. Their stories to say the least were exciting. Some were pioneering new ventures and new territories.

They were exciting too because you could see the character coming out in their ministry or as in some cases, not coming out. Sad to say and I have once again studied this, character is not a required quality in some ministry positions.

In too much of western christianity the way to the top is based on your devotion to the denomination and service to the system. I was in one church where the "pastor" was a young man who has a terrible problem with anger.

No matter, he did and said all the right things so the denomination made sure that he was placed on the ladder of success.

I have been in ministry in the church and outside of it. I was being groomed by one denomination to take over as deputy director for a vital para-church ministry. Their policy was that everyone who had a position of any kind in the denomination was to be addressed as "pastor."

I said no thanks, I am not a pastor so it would be a lie and I did not believe in positions, only ministries and if I had one calling me "pastor" would not make it any more credible as there are plenty of people out there who are called "pastor" or "minister" and are no more a pastor or minister than the man in the moon.

In the USA, I am informed that on average, 1,600 pastors will resign or be sacked each month. In my country there are 10,000 ex pastors who were obviously not called to be a pastor.

My advice is to not focus on being a...focus on being. The first will develop man made ministry. The second will develop God given ministry. The first will destroy you, the second will anoint you which you can pass on.

 

[gasman64]

My friend if you only knew the fear of that i have, but sometimes we just have to trust that it is in God's hands and whatever is his will is what must be done. We just have to pray hard and do what he asks of us. I will keep you guys updated.

are u hinting ur a pk?

 

[RLM0501]

Whats a pk?

 

[gasman64]

Whats a pk?

pastors kid

 

[RLM0501]

No, i am not the son of a pastor. But i am the "under-study" Of a pastor.

 

[HOPEOF9]

Josh,

I have to say I only read a bit of the replies on here from the other two who chose to respond. I am not going to engage in thier discussion for 1) I have not read it to follow closely, and 2) I don't want to get mixed in it.

To answer you on the online ordination, I don't agree with it personally. I think that you must be in an accountable situation and online whoever can't see your day to day walk. I don't know how you are living right now, and couldn't with a clear conscience clear you to be ordained. We have a system in our churches that follows the person for 2 years in ministry to see if their life follows the life of Christ and in servanthood of ministry. After that, people can ask to be ordained by the fellow believers and pastors in these churches. I've seen people be ordained, refused, and also thier ordination stripped because of repeated ungodly behavior that had far reaching effects.
Please pray about what I've shared and do live and work hard for the Lord all your days.

 

[Episaw]

To answer you on the online ordination, I don't agree with it personally. I think that you must be in an accountable situation and online whoever can't see your day to day walk. I don't know how you are living right now, and couldn't with a clear conscience clear you to be ordained. We have a system in our churches that follows the person for 2 years in ministry to see if their life follows the life of Christ and in servanthood of ministry. After that, people can ask to be ordained by the fellow believers and pastors in these churches. I've seen people be ordained, refused, and also thier ordination stripped because of repeated ungodly behavior that had far reaching effects.

Hopeof9, you are not related to the Borg are you?

Have you considered ordination according to scripture. It says we are ALL ordained to bring forth fruit, not to be a minister. And the word ordination in the Greek means to lay prostrate before God.

Ordination to be a minister is not to be found in scripture. The five ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher and shepherd are given by Christ and Christ alone. No man can appoint you to these ministries. If Jesus hasn't then you are a false minister.

The one who has been given these ministries by God are evident by their servant spirit. Those that want to rule the roost are ordained by man but not by God.

 

[vespasia]

Hallo Joshua,

[I am in leadership carrying pastoral responsibilities and continue to train]

I think online ordainment where you pay for a bit of paper is a con. The only one who really gets anything out of it is the eprson you give the money too. It does not make you theologically or pastorally qualified. If you were a church looking to appoint a pastor would you take a person with no training and an online qualification over someone who trains p/t and comes with a recognised ordination via the route recognised for their denomination?

The most important thing to do regardless of denomination is to test any sense of calling to fulltime ministry regardless of the ministry. The hours are long and often anti-social, the pay none existant to poor and his sheep bite back. I suspect this is why Timothy and Titus had the reality spelt out plainly.

You have two sets of children who are still dependent on you as their daddy. Fulltime ministry and especially pastoral work eats at families. You need both woman and all your kids if old enough ready and able to take your back spiritually in prayer.

Training at a theological smeinary has a lot to recommend it- some take a short course for a specific area, others an accredited course from diploma upwards. IF a denomination recognises your calling and if your funds are very limited it may be possible to access charitable grants, bursaries and 'mates rates' loans to cover training.

It is not enough for you on your own to pray about something as big as this- it needs to be tested with other christians who are already in leadership in your denomination. If you do not the only thing you may be hearing is your own desires masked as God or worse your about to fall for an attractive lie and end up taking a lot of people with you. Anything that is truly from God can bear and wait to be tested.

Leadership sounds good BUT take it from me it comes with a heavy load of accountability and responsibility. It requires an ability to be able to administrate people as well as paper. It demands a huge amount as you work out what the church really thinks it wants for a leader is someone who is a mix of Jesus Christ and Paul of Tarsus.

Willing and excited but oblivious to the pitfalls, problems and really hefty demands tends to say your at the start of the journey of discerning what God asks of you.

Questions for you to relfect upon further- you do not need to answer them here but do take them to that quiet place with God and then take them to discuss with Church leadership.

What leadership have you already been given by others in church?
When you talk do others shut and listen as what you say is considered to have weight and even 'wisdom' in it?
How would you cope with some of the nastier and messiest of pastoral problems [ child protection, splits amongst congregations, gossip aimmed at you, sitting with the dying and grieveing, fraud by trusted church members et al] It really is not all preaching and credit.

IF you have searched for online ordainment you will have left cookies across the web; of course your going to keep pulling this subject up. The cookies are pulling inbedded meta-tags up on web sites in the hope you will buy their adverstised product. Clear your browser history.

 

[HOPEOF9]

Hopeof9, you are not related to the Borg are you?

Have you considered ordination according to scripture. It says we are ALL ordained to bring forth fruit, not to be a minister. And the word ordination in the Greek means to lay prostrate before God.

Ordination to be a minister is not to be found in scripture. The five ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher and shepherd are given by Christ and Christ alone. No man can appoint you to these ministries. If Jesus hasn't then you are a false minister.

The one who has been given these ministries by God are evident by their servant spirit. Those that want to rule the roost are ordained by man but not by God.

I don't know you, and yes I do consider the scripture when I speak. I said nothing of him not being called by God or Christ to become a minister. He asked about online ordination, not about securing his calling.

 

[HOPEOF9]

Dear Joshua,

There is a Bible College in Baxter Springs, Kansas. It is called Apostolic Faith Bible College. It is ran by faith and there is no tuition charge and it includes room and board. It has been ran by faith for over 60 years. Their phone number is 1-620-856-3283. My husband and I attended said college and we havee 2 kids there now. Please call and check on it. It might be just the place you've been praying for.

 

[kocarkacirx]

A few thoughts for you to clarify your thinking.

 

[Denied]

You want to be a 'pastor'? Give me book, chapter and verse that sanctions the single pastor construct. We'll go from there.

 

[Episaw]

The hours are long and often anti-social, the pay none existant to poor and his sheep bite back.

A good comment that got me thinking "why do the sheep bite back?"

I am not saying that this is gospel, but what came to me was when you have a system that is wrong from the top down, the whole system fails to work.

We are told in scripture to love one another, not bite back. Could it be that we do the one and not the other because the single pastor system has built expectations that no pastor can fulfil as leadership is always plural and the priesthood is designated for ALL believers not a select few.

The single pastor system invariably breeds spectators who expect to be entertained and if they are not...they bite back.

If you are involved and doing you don't have much time to bite back, but the sad thing is that in the church growth experts manual you find that only 40% of the congregation is involved. The rest are spectators so that means you have a lot of people to bite back.

I was having a dialogue with someone who went to a church that has 27,000 attendees. I asked if they believed in the priesthood of ALL believers.

Oh yes was the emphatic reply. We have over 200 people on staff. Obviously the priesthood of all believers to this person was those who were paid to be Christians.

To show you how stupid the church is let me ask the question, "does the CEO of the company do the dishes, write the labels, work on the checkout, fill the shelves, plan the advertising, make the tea for the staff whilst the rest of the staff sit around and watch?"

The answer is "of course not." He does what he is trained to do and does best. Unfortunately, because the church system is broken, the pastor/CEO is also the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist and the teacher and those in the congregation who do have these ministries have to sit and watch him make a mess of it.

To prove a point, in one piece of research 1,600 pastors resigned or were sacked each month in the USA. I wonder why?

 

[Rev55]

As someone that will be ordained soon I agree with a lot of what I'm reading. I personally see being ordained by a church just them recognizing what God has done. My big question is how do you get away from the "pastor must do it all" mentality?

 

[Episaw]

As someone that will be ordained soon I agree with a lot of what I'm reading. I personally see being ordained by a church just them recognizing what God has done. My big question is how do you get away from the "pastor must do it all" mentality?

You are up against it if you are operating in a Baptist church. In some, the pastor is expected to be the jack of all trades and master of none. In some the pastor makes it very clear no one is going to muscle in on his territory. In others, the system is king so you are not going to be allowed to change anything.

If you want to operate in a more open and inclusive way, give the Baptists a wide berth and I am talking from personal experience.

The only way in most cases to avoid the pastor does it all mentality is to not become a pastor. if you really want to build a church that puts the scriptures first, not denominational orders, go out and plant your own church where you can set the ground rules for it to operate with a plurality of Elders which is biblical.

If you do that you are guaranteed success.