Oneness

[Jpark]

This is the belief of the oneness believer. There are other types of oneness such as Sabellism or Modalism, but a true Oneness believer does not subscribe to that belief . The teaching below is the simplest way to explain our belief.

#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So they teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.

This is exactly what I believe.

 

[Rescued One]

Modalism makes no sense to me. The Father sent His Son. A person doesn't send himself. (See 1 John 4:9)

The Son sent the Holy Spirit. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26)

The Son requested that the Father remove this cup from Him. "Nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done."(See Luke 22:42) The Father and Son have two separate wills.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

Christ is speaking about the Father and says the Father will give the Holy Spirit who Christ refers to as he and him.

 

[2ducklow]

Modalism makes no sense to me. The Father sent His Son. A person doesn't send himself. (See 1 John 4:9)

How can a Trinitarian say anything isn't true because it makes no sense? The whole trinity doctrine makes no sense. Trinitarians name 3 different Gods, then deny it and say if you add them up they are persons of god, but if you don't add the individuals up each one is god.

Just say to yourself, that god sending himself is true because god is beyond our understanding, that's what trinitarians say as proof that 3 is one.

The Son sent the Holy Spirit. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26)

The Son requested that the Father remove this cup from Him. "Nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done."(See Luke 22:42) The Father and Son have two separate wills.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

Christ is speaking about the Father and says the Father will give the Holy Spirit who Christ refers to as he and him.

he and him are a matter of the translators opinon as pronouns in Greek agree with the gender of the noun they refer to (something we don't do in English) and not the actual gender of the noun they refer to. All Greek nouns have Gender, English nouns have no gender.

 

[Jpark]

Modalism makes no sense to me. The Father sent His Son. A person doesn't send himself. (See 1 John 4:9)

The Son sent the Holy Spirit. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26)

The Son requested that the Father remove this cup from Him. "Nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done."(See Luke 22:42) The Father and Son have two separate wills.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

Christ is speaking about the Father and says the Father will give the Holy Spirit who Christ refers to as he and him.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son [Himself], that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

God is not a person. He is limitless. It is possible for God to send Himself.

John 16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper [ I ] will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him [Myself] to you.

John 14:18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

God the Son is the Holy Spirit.

Regarding Luke 22:42, that is the human nature of Jesus saying those words. There is only one God and only one will of God. The divine nature of Jesus does not have a separate will for He is God Himself.

Yes, the Holy Spirit has a personality. That doesn't mean He is a person though.

 

[Alfred Persson]

This is the belief of the oneness believer. There are other types of oneness such as Sabellism or Modalism, but a true Oneness believer does not subscribe to that belief . The teaching below is the simplest way to explain our belief.

#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So they teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
This is exactly what I believe.

Impossible, then this
KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 28:19 KJV)

should read thusly:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Son, and of the Son, and of the Son:


And this:

KJV Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat 11:25 KJV)

should read thusly:

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Son, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat 11:25 KJV)


etc

 

[Alfred Persson]

How can a Trinitarian say anything isn't true because it makes no sense? The whole trinity doctrine makes no sense. Trinitarians name 3 different Gods, then deny it and say if you add them up they are persons of god, but if you don't add the individuals up each one is god.

Just say to yourself, that god sending himself is true because god is beyond our understanding, that's what trinitarians say as proof that 3 is one.



he and him are a matter of the translators opinon as pronouns in Greek agree with the gender of the noun they refer to (something we don't do in English) and not the actual gender of the noun they refer to. All Greek nouns have Gender, English nouns have no gender.

3 Persons in One infinite ocean of essence that is God, makes perfect sense.

Of course "3 gods cannot be 1 god", that doesn't make sense, its a self contradiction, what is 3 cannot be 1 at the same time....

BUT THAT is NOT the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.


Our LORD Jesus Christ said God is One God (Name), but three "Persons":

KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 28:19 KJV)

"Name" is singular, but He says Three Persons are in that one name.

If the idea of Three Persons in One Name didn't make sense to Jesus, He wouldn't have commanded we be baptized in that One name in which subsists Three Persons.


One infinite ocean of essence in which three distinct but equal "Persons" subsist, makes perfect sense, but its mysterious, we don't know all the details of it.

Either you believe ONLY what makes sense to you, or you accept your limitations---some things exist that are mysterious.


YouTube - Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment


Answer how this makes sense to you...and if it doesn't make sense to you, then answer how does it exist?

 

[2ducklow]

3 Persons in One infinite ocean of essence that is God, makes perfect sense.

Sort of like by analogy, John, George, and Suzie in one finite ocean of essence that is Man.

Of course "3 gods cannot be 1 god", that doesn't make sense, its a self contradiction, what is 3 cannot be 1 at the same time....

BUT THAT is NOT the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

trinitarians tried to put it in the bible in 1 john 5.7 :"these three are one." You are saying that 3 gods cannot be one god, but 3 persons can be one god. Both are equally a contradiction because 3 is not one. it is 3.

Our LORD Jesus Christ said God is One God (Name), but three "Persons":

Jesus did not say that, you do. The Bible says one God is the Father, not a name.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 28:19 KJV)

"Name" is singular, but He says Three Persons are in that one name.

If the idea of Three Persons in One Name didn't make sense to Jesus, He wouldn't have commanded we be baptized in that One name in which subsists Three Persons.

Jesus never spoke those words. They were put in at the council of nicea, just like trinitarians tried to put 3 is one in 1 john 5.7.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/matt2819-willis.htm

One infinite ocean of essence in which three distinct but equal "Persons" subsist, makes perfect sense, but its mysterious, we don't know all the details of it.

It makes as much sense as saying One finite lake of essence in which John, George, and Suzie who are distinct but equal subsist.

Either you believe ONLY what makes sense to you, or you accept your limitations---some things exist that are mysterious.


YouTube - Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment


Answer how this makes sense to you...and if it doesn't make sense to you, then answer how does it exist?

Man invented the Trinity, god didn't, It's a doctrine man must prove, not God. Trinity doesn't make sense to me, and it doesn't exist. Man inventing a doctrine that doesn't make sense can't be proven to be true by saying it's true cause it doesn't make sense and is therefore true. That is absurd.

Your quantum thing was interesting, but it is reality, it actually happens, there is an explanation for it that makes sense, it just hasn't been discovered yet. Trinity is not a reality you are describing, for trinity to be a reality the bible would have to say God is a trinity, and all the various other nonsensical statements trinitarians make about Trinity in order for it to be reality, but the bible does not say anything like trinitarian explanations, much less the actual vocabulary of Trinity. Trinitarians inveneted it so they gotta explain it, and they haven't explained it in hundreds of years. so trash can time for trinity is way way overdue.

 

[Jpark]

Impossible, then this
KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 28:19 KJV)

should read thusly:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Son, and of the Son, and of the Son:


And this:

KJV Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat 11:25 KJV)

should read thusly:

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Son, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Mat 11:25 KJV)


etc

Exactly! This is why Oneness believers say baptize in the name of Jesus only.

For they are the same "person". The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the three roles of God. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three roles of the divine nature of Jesus.

The confusion surrounding Trinity is mostly because of the two natures of Christ (i.e. Matthew 12:32, Matthew 24:36).

 

[Der Alte]

Exactly! This is why Oneness believers say baptize in the name of Jesus only.

For they are the same "person". The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the three roles of God. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three roles of the divine nature of Jesus.

The confusion surrounding Trinity is mostly because of the two natures of Christ (i.e. Matthew 12:32, Matthew 24:36).

There was no "Onenesss" religious group until April 13, 1915 when R.E. McAlister, a Trinitarian, supposedly had a "revelation" in the middle of a sermon on traditional Baptism. Between 90 AD, when the NT was completed, and that time there is NO, ZERO, NONE evidence for any church teaching baptism in the name of Jesus only. “Oneness,” teaches that there is no Trinity, God is not Triune, but “Jesus Only.” However, Jesus said that, The Father; the Son, Himself; and the Holy Spirit had separate and distinct “selves,” Jn 5:19, 20, 26; 16:13.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself [εαυτου]; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;​

In this verse, Joh 5:26, Jesus speaks of two separate and distinct “selves.” One “self,” the Father, gives to the other “self,” the Son.

G1438 εαυτου heautou heh-ow-too'
(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.​

In this verse, Joh 16:27, Jesus again refers to the Father having a “self,” as distinct from Jesus.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself [εαυτου]; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

In this verse, Joh 16:13, Jesus clearly indicates that the Spirit has a “self,” using the same word, “himself,” He used to distinguish between, Jesus, himself, and the Father. Does the word himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse than in John 5:26?

“Oneness,” and other anti-Trinitarians, teach that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is “the mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or even "God himself.". If that is true, in John 16:13,

1. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," speak from if not from God?
2. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," hear from if not from God?
3. Who tells the “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," of things to come in the future, if not God?

If the anti-Trinitarian doctrine is correct then the Christians at Ephesus did not know that God had “a mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who [Christ] through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

The “self,” of Christ distinguished from “the eternal spirit,” and from “God.” And note the clear distinction of the Triune God, 1. the blood of Christ, 2. the eternal Spirit, and 3. the living God?

Does the word, himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse, than it does in John 5:26, which seems to have a different meaning in John 16:13, according to anti-Trinitarian teaching?

 

[Der Alte]

KJV Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 28:19 KJV)

"Name" is singular, but He says Three Persons are in that one name.

If the idea of Three Persons in One Name didn't make sense to Jesus, He wouldn't have commanded we be baptized in that One name in which subsists Three Persons.

Jesus never spoke those words. They were put in at the council of nicea,[ . . . ]

There is NO, ZERO, NONE credible, verifiable, historical evidence for the Triadic formula being even mentioned at Nicaea! Hundreds of years before Nicaea the church fathers said Jesus spoke the words.

To verify citations, [ECF Link]

1. Ignatius – The Epistle to the Philadelphians [30-107 a.d.], [a disciple of John.] [218 + years before Nicaea]

Chapter IX.-The Old Testament is Good: the New Testament is Better

"Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." All then are good together, the law, the prophets, the apostles, the whole company [of others] that have believed through them: only if we love one another.

2. Irenaeus – Against Heresies Book III [a.d. 120-202.], [a student of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John.] [123 + years before Nicaea]

That is the Spirit of whom the Lord declares, "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."308 And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God,309 He said to them," Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. "

3. Justin – 1st Apology Chapter LXI.-Christian Baptism. [110-165 a.d. ][ca. 175 years before Nicaea]

Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.127

4. Tertullian – The Prescription Against Heretics.1 [a.d. 145-220] [105 + years before Nicaea]

Accordingly, after one of these had been struck off, He commanded the eleven others, on His departure to the Father, to "go and teach all nations, who were to be baptized into the Father, and into the Son, and into the Holy Ghost." 203

4a. Tertullian – On Baptism. [105 + years before Nicaea]

For the law of baptizing has been imposed, and the formula prescribed: "Go," He saith, "teach the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. "

5. The Extant Works and Fragments of Hippolytus. – Part II. – Dogmatical and Historical. (c.170-c.236). [89 + years before Nicaea]

The Father's Word, therefore, knowing the economy (disposition) and the will of the Father, to wit, that the Father seeks to be worshipped in none other way than this, gave this charge to the disciples after He rose from the dead: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. "265 And by this He showed, that whosoever omitted any one of these, failed in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through this Trinity that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, the Spirit manifested. The whole Scriptures, then, proclaim this truth.

6. Cyprian – Treatise XII.1 – Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews. [c.200-258][67 + years before Nicaea]

And He laid His right hand upon me, and said, Fear not; I am the first and the last, and He that liveth and was dead; and, lo, I am living for evermore289 and I have the keys of death and of hell."290 Likewise in the Gospel, the Lord after His resurrection says to His disciples: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.

7. Origen – de Principiis Book I [c.185-c.254] [71+ years before Nicaea]

From all which we learn that the person of the Holy Spirit was of such authority and dignity, that saving baptism was not complete except by the authority of the most excellent Trinity of them all, i.e., by the naming of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and by joining to the unbegotten God the Father, and to His only-begotten Son, the name also of the Holy Spirit.

8. The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations. –
Chapter VII. – Concerning Baptism. [120 AD][205 years before Nicaea]

1. And concerning baptism,73 thus baptize ye:74 Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,75 in living water.76 2. But if thou have not living water, baptize into other water; and if thou3canst not in cold, in warm. 3. But if thou have not either, pour out water thrice77 upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. 4. But before the baptism let the 4 baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but thou shalt order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

9. Constitutions of the Holy Apostles – Book II. Of Bishops, Presbyters, and Deacons. [Late 2d to early 3d century] [100 + years before Nicaea]

Let the presbyters be esteemed by you to represent us the apostles, and let them be the teachers of divine knowledge; since our Lord, when He sent us, said, "Go ye, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

10. Life and Conduct of the Holy Women Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca [mid 3d century] [75 years before Nicaea]

XIV. Therefore the great Paul straightway taking her hand, went into the house of Philotheus, and baptised her in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Ghost.

11. Tatian – The Diatessaron [ca. 175] [150 years before Nicaea]

Then said Jesus unto them, I have been given all authority in heaven 5 and earth; and as my Father hath sent me, so I also send you. Go now into [sup]6[/sup] all the world, and preach my gospel in all the creation; and teach all the peoples, and 7 baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; and teach them to keep all whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you all the days, unto 8 the end of the world.

At the seventh Council of Carthage in 256 [69 years before Nicaea], a bishop named Vincentius of Thibaris said, "We have assuredly the rule of truth which the Lord by His divine precept commanded to His apostles, saying, 'Go ye, lay on hands in My name, expel demons.' And in another place: "Go ye and teach the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.'" Vincentius' second quotation is from Matthew 28:19. Despite attempts by some interpreters to connect the first quotation to Matthew 10:8, the references to going, laying on hands, expelling demons, and doing so in My name add up to a reference to Mark 16:15- 18, especially when placed side-by-side with the parallel passage from Matthew

Seventh Council of Carthage - Concerning the Baptism of Heretics. The Judgment of Eighty-Seven Bishops on the Baptism of Heretics. 256 a.d. [69 years before Nicaea]

12. Lucius of Castra Galbae said: Since the Lord in His Gospel said, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt should have lost its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out of doors, and to be trodden under foot of men." And again, after His resurrection, sending His apostles, He gave them charge, saying, "All power is given unto me, in heaven and in earth. Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

13. Munnulus of Girba said: The truth of our Mother6 the Catholic Church, brethren, hath always remained and still remains with us, and even especially in the Trinity of baptism, as our Lord says, "Go ye and baptize the nations, in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. "

14. Euchratius of Thenae said: God and our Lord Jesus Christ, teaching the apostles with His own mouth, has entirely completed our faith, and the grace of baptism, and the rule of the ecclesiastical law, saying: "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

15. Vincentius of Thibaris said: We know that heretics are worse than Gentiles. If, therefore, being converted, they should wish to come to the Lord, we have assuredly the rule of truth which the Lord by His divine precept commanded to His apostles, saying, "Go ye, lay on hands in my name, expel demons." And in another place: "Go ye and teach the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."​

 

[Der Alte]

The Son sent the Holy Spirit. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26)

The Son requested that the Father remove this cup from Him. "Nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done."(See Luke 22:42) The Father and Son have two separate wills.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

Christ is speaking about the Father and says the Father will give the Holy Spirit who Christ refers to as he and him.

he and him are a matter of the translators opinon as pronouns in Greek agree with the gender of the noun they refer to (something we don't do in English) and not the actual gender of the noun they refer to. All Greek nouns have Gender, English nouns have no gender.

If you are going to try to give instruction in Greek grammar then cite some acknowledged grammars, such as Robertson, Wallace, etc. The gender of pronouns is NOT due to translator's opinion. In Greek the pronoun must agree with the noun they refer to and the word παράκλητος, translated "comforter", and "advocate," is masculine, therefore the pronoun referent must be masculine.

G3875 παράκλητος paraklētos
Thayer Definition:
1) summoned, called to one’s side, especially called to one’s aid
1a) one who pleads another’s cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
1b) one who pleads another’s cause with one, an intercessor
1b1) of Christ in his exaltation at God’s right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
1c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1c1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a root word
Citing in TDNT: 5:800, 782​

 

[drstevej]

If you are going to try to give instruction in Greek grammar then cite some acknowledged grammars, such as Robertson, Wallace, etc. The gender of pronouns is NOT due to translator's opinion. In Greek the pronoun must agree with the noun they refer to and the word παράκλητος, translated "comforter", and "advocate," is masculine, therefore the pronoun referent must be masculine.

G3875 παράκλητος paraklētos
Thayer Definition:
1) summoned, called to one’s side, especially called to one’s aid
1a) one who pleads another’s cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
1b) one who pleads another’s cause with one, an intercessor
1b1) of Christ in his exaltation at God’s right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
1c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1c1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a root word
Citing in TDNT: 5:800, 782​

der Alter is right.

 

[Alfred Persson]

...Your quantum thing was interesting, but it is reality, it actually happens...

You have contradicted yourself, you said the Holy Trinity didn't make sense, therefore it couldn't exist.

Now you say what doesn't make sense, actually happens, does exist.

Inconsistency indicates an unsound position...

You have compartmentalized what agrees with your belief, into an area that isn't subject to testing, while anything that disagrees, is rejected regardless the proofs for it.

It will take divine intervention to help you...

Or perhaps you will learn critical thinking...and realize how unsound your position really is.

Amazon.com has some excellent introductions to critical thinking, the science of clear thinking is another name for it.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ] Jesus never spoke those words. They were put in at the council of nicea, just like trinitarians tried to put 3 is one in 1 john 5.7.

A Collection of Evidence Against the Traditional Wording of Matthew 28:19[ . . . ]

Virtually all the so-called quotes at this link are lies from the pits of hell. Every one of the sources that is reasonably available to the average person, I have researched and they are either made up, or quoted out-of-context. Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, did not say the words attributed to him. The ISBE or Schaff Herzog do not say what is claimed. Some people are so foolish and gullible they will believe anything by anybody, any where, as long as it supports their assumptions/presuppositions.

 

[2ducklow]

You have contradicted yourself, you said the Holy Trinity didn't make sense, therefore it couldn't exist.

I did not. I said trinity doesn't make sense to me AND (not therefore) it doesn't exist.

Trinity doesn't make sense to me, and it doesn't exist

Now you say what doesn't make sense, actually happens, does exist.

I never said that. you made that up. Your fantasys about what I've said are not true.
here is what I said.

.Your quantum thing was interesting, but it is reality, it actually happens, there is an explanation for it that makes sense, it just hasn't been discovered yet. Trinity is not a reality you are describing, for trinity to be a reality the bible would have to say God is a trinity, and all the various other nonsensical statements trinitarians make about Trinity in order for it to be reality, but the bible does not say anything like trinitarian explanations, much less the actual vocabulary of Trinity. Trinitarians inveneted it so they gotta explain it, and they haven't explained it in hundreds of years. so trash can time for trinity is way way overdue.

There is a difference between something that doesn't make sense, and something that seems to not make sense. THe proton quantum mech. thing seems to not make sense, whereas Trinity doesn't make sense.

Do you know the difference between the 2?

.

Inconsistency indicates an unsound position...

No you got it wrong. Lieing and making up fantasys about what people say indicates an unsound position....

You have compartmentalized what agrees with your belief, into an area that isn't subject to testing, while anything that disagrees, is rejected regardless the proofs for it.

It will take divine intervention to help you...

Or perhaps you will learn critical thinking...and realize how unsound your position really isAmazon.com has some excellent introductions to critical thinking, the science of clear thinking is another name for it.

You make up fantasys about what I've said and then say I need to learn critical thinking. It's what almost made me not respond to your post.

3 is one is a contradiction , no amount of oceans of essence nonsense is ever going to explain how 3 is one. you are stuck with a doctrine that is a contradiction. that is why all trinitarian explanations are nonsensical because contradictions are not truth and not explainable except with nonsense explanations such as your "ocean of essence" explanation.
Take your Quantum mechanics analogy. They don't try and explain the aspect of quantum mechanics that doesn't seem to make sense with nonsensical explanations> they just say something that makes sense to explain it or say we don't know why it does that. You should, in reality, do the same with Trinity. You should just say that you can't explain trinity ( as Trinitarians often will do when cornered) and admit that it doesn't make sense instead of coming up with nonsense like "oceans of essence". If something doesn't make sense, it can't be explained. If something is a contradiction, such as 3 is one, then it cannot be explained, and any attempt to explain a contradiciton is an exercise in deception.

 

[Jpark]

“Oneness,” and other anti-Trinitarians, teach that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is “the mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or even "God himself.". If that is true, in John 16:13,

1. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," speak from if not from God?
2. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," hear from if not from God?
3. Who tells the “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," of things to come in the future, if not God?

If the anti-Trinitarian doctrine is correct then the Christians at Ephesus did not know that God had “a mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who [Christ] through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

The “self,” of Christ distinguished from “the eternal spirit,” and from “God.” And note the clear distinction of the Triune God, 1. the blood of Christ, 2. the eternal Spirit, and 3. the living God?

Does the word, himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse, than it does in John 5:26, which seems to have a different meaning in John 16:13, according to anti-Trinitarian teaching?

Well, I teach that the Holy Spirit does have a personality and that He is God Himself.

I'm not just a heretic to Trinitarians. I am a heretic to Oneness as well.

The blood of the Holy Spirit (Acts 20:28)

The eternal Father (1 Timothy 1:17)

The One living (Revelation 19:18)

Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father are the same "person". One living God. The word "living God" doesn't merely refer to the Father. The living God refers to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father.

 

[Der Alte]

There was no "Onenesss" religious group until April 13, 1915 when R.E. McAlister, a Trinitarian, supposedly had a "revelation" in the middle of a sermon on traditional Baptism. Between 90 AD, when the NT was completed, and that time there is NO, ZERO, NONE evidence for any church teaching baptism in the name of Jesus only. “Oneness,” teaches that there is no Trinity, God is not Triune, but “Jesus Only.” However, Jesus said that, The Father; the Son, Himself; and the Holy Spirit had separate and distinct “selves,” Jn 5:19, 20, 26; 16:13.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself [εαυτου]; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;​

In this verse, Joh 5:26, Jesus speaks of two separate and distinct “selves.” One “self,” the Father, gives to the other “self,” the Son.

G1438 εαυτου heautou heh-ow-too'
(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.​

In this verse, Joh 16:27, Jesus again refers to the Father having a “self,” as distinct from Jesus.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself [εαυτου]; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

In this verse, Joh 16:13, Jesus clearly indicates that the Spirit has a “self,” using the same word, “himself,” He used to distinguish between, Jesus, himself, and the Father. Does the word himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse than in John 5:26?

“Oneness,” and other anti-Trinitarians, teach that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is “the mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or even "God himself.". If that is true, in John 16:13,

1. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," speak from if not from God?
2. Who does the, “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," hear from if not from God?
3. Who tells the “mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God, or "God himself," of things to come in the future, if not God?

If the anti-Trinitarian doctrine is correct then the Christians at Ephesus did not know that God had “a mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who [Christ] through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

The “self,” of Christ distinguished from “the eternal spirit,” and from “God.” And note the clear distinction of the Triune God, 1. the blood of Christ, 2. the eternal Spirit, and 3. the living God?

Does the word, himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse, than it does in John 5:26, which seems to have a different meaning in John 16:13, according to anti-Trinitarian teaching?

Well, I teach that the Holy Spirit does have a personality and that He is God Himself.

I'm not just a heretic to Trinitarians. I am a heretic to Oneness as well.

The blood of the Holy Spirit (Acts 20:28)

The eternal Father (1 Timothy 1:17)

The One living (Revelation 19:18)

Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father are the same "person". One living God. The word "living God" doesn't merely refer to the Father. The living God refers to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father.

You have not addressed anything I posted. See the word "himself" and the three questions about the Holy Spirit.

 

[Der Alte]

Things that go bump in the night.