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  1. InnocentOdion

    InnocentOdion Seeker

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    First off, to use the "Oneness" icon, what do you have to believe?

    And I'm curious as to many people on what they see the Holy Spirit as and how many view Jesus as divine (I don't).

    I'm also curious as to if people can believe in the Holy Spirit as feminine aspect of the One God, but I'm tempted to ask this in another thread. Help with the first two, please? :D
     
  2. woden

    woden Senior Member

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    Collins Dictionary on the word "divine" is:-adj of God or a god. Godlike. Informal: splendid or perfect.

    So in this sense it would be fitting to call Jesus divine or of divine origin. "Of God" means from God, which he was and said so and his Father backed him up three times on the matter: at his baptism, at the transfigeration and at the temple when some said it had thundered. Being divine does not mean he was God and as yet no clear cut bible verse confirms that.

    The Holy Spirit is God's Active Force. We stuggle sometimes to visulalise God in human terms, but as a spirit being we always fall short. Yet the Holy Spirit has with God's direction accomplished many things. It has strengthened many including Jesus, the Apostles, Paul and others to do marvellous things. This Spirit was poured out on 120 followers of Jesus at Pentecost 33C.E. just as Jesus had promised. That day these men and women spearheaded the work about the Good News about Jesus and on that day around 3,000 were baptised and took home their new found faith. An active force can accomplish a lot of good, and God uses it to do so. It is not, in my belief a person in the spirit realm as God is or as Jesus is now.
     
  3. debi b

    debi b Senior Veteran

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    As I am not sporting the oneness icon I am wondering are you asking of this faith icon only or to others concerning questions two and three?
     
  4. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    they don't seem to be to specific about it. if you are UPC you're safe.
    the Holy Spirit is the spirit of YHWH or God the Father. God the Father is holy and God the Father is spirit according to scripture. Since there is only one Holy Spirit, God the Father is the Holy Spirit.

    Leviticus 11:44 For I am the LORD (YHWH)your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    God is holy.

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    God is Holy Spirit according to scripture, therefore he is the Holy spirit. Cause there ain't two of them.

    God ain't no girl in any shape form or fashion. God is the Holy Spirit. The holy Spirit of God is who he is just as my soul is who I am. I am not my body, or my human spirit, but I am my soul and when I die that's all that will be left of me.
     
  5. HappyChicken

    HappyChicken Domestic Egg Executive

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    I don't think the Holy Spirit is a feminine aspect. I think to try to fully comprehend the Holy Spirit is impossible. It's just something we cannot fully wrap our puny humanly brains around.
     
  6. HappyChicken

    HappyChicken Domestic Egg Executive

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    I use to attend a Oneness church, but I get so confused on doctrines because I have been in 3 denominations... I went to an Apostolic Pentacostal Oneness church.... I have always had trinity confusions.... and the Oneness church does not believe in the trinity. Thats the biggest difference between them and other pentacostal churches. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND (as i said i get confused) the Oneness churches preach that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is just ONE....in three manifestations.... they all "rank" the same..so to speak... does that make sense?? I could be explaining this all wrong... Another belief I noticed at that church is that they believe in the Baptism of the HOly Ghost....and its evident by speaking in tongues. At the church I went to, you could not serve unless you spoke in tongues... I never did, so I could not play piano during the service. They also baptize in the name of Jesus Christ (not in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit). ALSO, at this church, they are very conservative with attire. Women wear long skirts, sleaves (can have short sleeves, but no tanks or halters), no make-up, definitely no pants or shorts, and your hair does not get cut. Men are to be conservative as well. I'm sure you could Google "Oneness Apostolic Pentacostal" and gain better knowledge than I can explain.

    So, your origional question was, what do you have to believe to sport the Oneness icon.... I hope I have helped some.
     
  7. music4two

    music4two Senior Member

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    You might want to check out my thread called The Hebrew Holy Spirit in thi section.
     
  8. 3rddaymessenger

    3rddaymessenger New Member

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    Jesus is divine...being born of God, the same as that which is born of a human is human.

    All true born-again children of God are divine...we are partakers of the divine nature. Being born of incorruptible Seed...how could we be anything else?!

    I think we could say that the "feminine" side of God was in His Word; because that we are born of the "water and blood" that flowed from His side on the Cross of Calvary.

    As Eve was taken physically from the rib of Adam...the "bride" of Christ is birthed from His "side"...spiritually.
     
  9. onwingsaseagles

    onwingsaseagles New Member

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    This is the belief of the oneness believer. There are other types of oneness such as Sabellism or Modalism, but a true Oneness believer does not subscribe to that belief . The teaching below is the simplest way to explain our belief.

    #1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
    #2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
    #3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So they teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
    #4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
     
  10. ezek33

    ezek33 Junior Member

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    Wow onwings this is awesome that is exactly what I believe, and it is explain very simplistically so that anyone could understand. Good job :thumbsup:
     
  11. Holyroller125

    Holyroller125 Regular Member

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    I used to be a Oneness ordained minister. Some things such as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost *absolutely* having no distinctions is taking the text way too far. The particular rendered meaning is taking theology way to far from the Biblical text. Anyone who gives the Bible a close reading of the text knows their is some distinctions between the function of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in our salvation.

    I used to believe and have the "unbiblical attitude" that one cannot claim to be a Christian/Believer/Saved unless they speak in tongues, receive the Baptism of the HOly Ghost, be baptized by immersion in the Name of Jesus Christ, and have the standards of dress in order to have a conversion and be considered holy. Now, I believe one needs an evangelical confirmation to confess Jesus Christ as Lord at conversion without water baptism, baptism in the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, or a standard of dress. Though, I still believe in the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues, but not like the UPC or Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal church.

    I used to be a Oneness UPCI pastor, and the organization is an unhealthy and very shallow organization and belief system. I know because I used to be ordained in that organization

    All The Best,

    Greg Norton
     
  12. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    You haven't stated anything that the UPC does or believes that I would consider unhealthy, or shallow. Having some false beliefs doesn't make a denomination shallow, if it did, all denominations would be shallow. And I don't consider women in buns without makeup unhealthy. My grandma didn't wear makeup and wore her hair in a bun and there was nothing wrong with it , and she was not UPC, she was a baptist, in fact in her day women wearing lipstick were considered prostys.

    the real problem is that you believe Jesus is god,thus you have gone from one nonsensical explanation (Jesus is his own daddy) to one even more nonsensical (3 persons are one god, aka, 3 beings are one being.) The problem is you've named too many gods, and the bible says there is only one god, thus you will never have any logical explantation that makes any kind of sense as to how all 3 can be one being. The truth is God the father, according to scritprue is the one and only true god, the holy spirit is often spoken of in personifications, and is the spirit of god the father, and Jesus is not his daddy, he is not God, he is the son of god. That truth is not illogical and makes total sense. All other explanations are nonsensical. 3 is not one. ONe is one, and 3 is 3.

    Saying the methiodist trinity is correct cause the uPC oneness is wrong is basically your proof.


    But I understand your reluctance to even consider that Jesus is not god, in spite of several scriptrues that flat out state that Jesus is not god. It's because near about all christians say you gotta beleive Jesus is god to be saved. Therefore, you can't even consider the possibility that Jesus is not god.

    Also, your reasoning seems to be that since the UPC is wrong about the necessity of speaking in tongues to be saved, that they are therefore also wrong about the proper method of baptism, aka in Jesus name. So because the UPC misinterpets a certain scirpture to come up with you gotta speak in tongues to be saved, throw out all the scriptures that say baptism is in Jesus name. That's what Im getting from you.

    I believe the UPC has a lot of truth, but has shot itself in the foot so to speak by adopting certain false doctrines that scare most people away, such as women can't wear makeup and lipstick, men can't wear short sleve shirts, etc.

    Going from UPC to mthodist is going backwards in my estimation. you remind me of Oral Roberts who went backwards from pentecostal to methodist because of some abuses in the pentecostal movement of his day. There's a saying that I feel fits here, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2009
  13. Holyroller125

    Holyroller125 Regular Member

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    Just because I went from UPC to Methodist does not mean I have thrown the Baby out with the bath water. In fact, I have labored long to make the change and do it without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    When I say unhealthy, It is how they heap condemnation and guilt on people. The method is unhealthy. You may not know because you were not in it. You have to experience the abuses of the system to really know what your talking about. For the shallowness, the UPC cannot handle a real hard corp Bible study or theology.

    God Bless,
    Holyroller125
     
  14. jpr7

    jpr7 Junior Member

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    To use the Oneness icon you must believe either of two things:

    1. One numerical God who plays the roles of Father, Son and Holy Spirit sequentially. That is, God was first exclusively the Father, then He became exclusively the Son, and now is exclusively the Holy Spirit. And the Son is all of God while being human in some way

    or

    2. One numerical God who exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simultaneously. But the Son did not come into being until Mary was pregnant with Jesus. And the terms "Father" and "Holy Spirit" describe God transcendent and God immanent, respectively.
     
  15. KTskater

    KTskater Rejoice in the Lord always!

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    Yup, yup. I agree completely.
     
  16. eyeoftzion

    eyeoftzion Newbie

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    In the Kabbalah there is God and God the source. God the source is named Ain Sof, which means "the limitless". It is veiwed that even YAHWEH is an emination of the true being of God. God the source created eternity, and so is also beyond its limits because it is eternity's creator. God the source is both being and non-being.
     
  17. Servetes

    Servetes Non Multa Sed Multum / en Vino Veritas

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    In answer to your first question.

    Essentially Oneness teaches there is only one God the creator of heaven and earth, and of all living beings. He has revealed Himself to humanity as the Father, in the son, and as the Holy Ghost. With respect to Jesus, God prepared a body of flesh and blood and came to earth as a man. The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. The Holy Ghost comes to dwell in the hearts and lives of everyone who believes and obeys the gospel, as the comforter and sustainer. Obviously, Oneness rejects the Doctrine of the Trinity.

    Salvation consists of repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (only) by immersion only for the remission of sins, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues and the Spirit gives utterance.

    Justifications is by faith but "Holiness" is encouraged (most strenuiously). Standards of Holiness vary between the dozen or so Oneness denominations.

    The Second Coming of Christ and Resurrection are essentially the same as the Orthodox denominations. Oneness believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture

    Oneness denominations practice "foot washing"

    With respect to your second question.

    I see the Holy Spirit as the Church and Jesus is not only divine but the only deity.
     
  18. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    I got baptised the second time in a UPC church, I was a member of it for about a year, so I have some experience with the UPC.
    My opinion about the UPC is that their main problem , that hinders the move of the spirit, is legalism. Legalism , IMO, stiffles the move of the spirit. But they do have the spirit and the spirit does move, more so than in most any other church. Methodist, IMO, aren't even in the ball park.

    condemnation and guilt? I wouldn't put it like that, I think I know what you are refering to. Stuff like one isn't a christian unless they are baptised in JEsus name and have the indwelling of the holy spirit. Stuff like no make up on women, long sleeve shirts for men (cause hairy arms might get women sexually exiceted, no foolin, that's what one church said ) .. My opinon is that many churches do the same thing in other ways, Ex. Church of Christ you gotta believe exactly like them or you ain't saved. Most trintiarain churches believe you gotta believe Jesus is god or you aren't a christian, Everybody goes overboard somewhere. Just about anyway.
     
  19. Holyroller125

    Holyroller125 Regular Member

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    Thank You for really trying to help. I really felt spiritually enabled and refreshed while reading your post. What I learned for a church to be a healthy church is:

    1. A Church Exists to Dialogue - A Lot of UPC is "I speak and you listen." If you do not, it gives license to smash hope, devalue, be mean, and talk condescending towards people.
    2. Forgiveness, Grace, and Freedom in Christ - This must be conveyed and not just talked about or put up in a banner.
    3. Unconditional Acceptance - A legalistic will be mean and condescending when you do not agree or dance to the puppet show. A real gracefilled and Spirit-filled person is going to show love even if person does not agree with them.

    May the Lord Be With You,
    Holyroller125
     
  20. 2ducklow

    2ducklow angel duck

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    Legalism is wrong, but they do it to try and be extra careful not to sin. I agree that legalism leads to judgementalism. The other side of that coin is anything goes, whatever you want to believe believe you wanna wear a bathing suit to church go for it cause we don't care. That is the other ditch. Legalism on one side, and liberalism on the other side. In my estimation, you went from one ditch (UPC), legalism, to the opposite ditch, liberalism (methodist). Although the UPC isn't all about legalism, and the methodist church isn't all about liberalism. It's hard to find a balanced church out there. good luck. My opinon is find the best church you can and go there, and don't expect any church you find to be perfect. Personally, i didn't get the feeling of judgementalism at the UPC that you express. In that regard, I didn't see um any dif than most any other church.

    What throws me for a loop is going from a spirit filled tongue speaking gifts of the spirit church to a liberal believe what you want to believe church without the baptism of the hly spirit, without tongues, without the gifts of the spirit. Talk about changing course, whew. You'd give up tongues, gifts of the spirit, baptism of the holy spirit cause a pentecostal church you went to was judgemental? I'd just look for another pentecostal one till i found one I could be comfortable with.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010