One Baptism for the remission of sins

[MariaRegina]

Doesn't the Nicene Creed say that there is one baptism for the remission of sins?

Babies and young children don't have to make a confession before their baptism.

My Orthodox priest said that adult converts who are baptized don't need to make a full life confession before Baptism because their sins are forgiven in Baptism.

Even Catholic Church currently teaches that Baptism forgives sin. I don't think that any of their converts must make a confession before Baptism .... only several weeks after .... and then it is not a full life confession.

So who changed what here?

Hasn't the Church always taught that there is one Baptism for the remission of sins?


Note, however, that converts should make a full life confession before Chrismation, if they are not receiving the sacraments of Holy Baptism and Holy Chrismation together.

 

[Marjorie]

I didn't make a life confession before I entered into the Church (OCA); my priest agrees with yours.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Kolya]

I did not make a full life confession before Chrismation. My first confession was just before my first receiving the Eucharist at the first DL after I was chrismated.

I was received as I was, and I renounced my affiliation with all other beliefs at the Chrismation Ceremony (Which took about 5 minutes)

 

[repentant]

Doesn't the Nicene Creed say that there is one baptism for the remission of sins?

Babies and young children don't have to make a confession before their baptism.

My Orthodox priest said that adult converts who are baptized don't need to make a full life confession before Baptism because their sins are forgiven in Baptism.

Even Catholic Church currently teaches that Baptism forgives sin. I don't think that any of their converts must make a confession before Baptism .... only several weeks after .... and then it is not a full life confession.

So who changed what here?

Hasn't the Church always taught that there is one Baptism for the remission of sins?


Note, however, that converts should make a full life confession before Chrismation, if they are not receiving the sacraments of Holy Baptism and Holy Chrismation together.

I really don't understand what your asking. Baptism removes all former sin, so there is no need to confess before.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I was Baptized with no confession. Bastism is the remission of all sins. Why would one confess before it?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I did make a full life confession before my chrismation but I did not receive absolution. The absolution is part of the chrismation rite.

As for how this came about, I don't know.

M.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I have heard of at least one priest who has catechumen begin to confess their sins weeks or months before entering the Church as preparation for recieving the Mysteries of Baptism, Chrismation and the Eucharist. They do not recieve absolution until Chrismation.

M.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Is not confession a sacrament, though? How can non-Orthodox take part in the sacraments?

 

[repentant]

Is not confession a sacrament, though? How can non-Orthodox take part in the sacraments?

Exactly...there is no need for it before Baptism. Plus canonically a Priest shouldn't here confessions of non-Orthodox.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Is not confession a sacrament, though? How can non-Orthodox take part in the sacraments?

Exactly...there is no need for it before Baptism. Plus canonically a Priest shouldn't here confessions of non-Orthodox.

I think the seal of the Mystery, what makes the confession sacramental, is the absolution. That is when the Church, through the priest, confers Grace to the penitent. Everything else is simply a conversation with advice. A priest can hear anyone talk about anything but he can only confer absolution on Orthodox. To have had a sacramental confession, the Orthodox must receive absolution. In cases where penance must be performed a priest may withhold absolution after hearing confession and the Sacrament of Confession has not taken place.

An analogy could be made to the Divine Liturgy. Yes, Christ is in our midst during the whole of the service, so its very nature is sacramental, but non Orthodox can participate in the prayers and praises. The seal of the sacramental service of the DL is the Eucharist which is reserved for Orthodox.

I wish I could post the text for the service of Chrismation which includes absolution but the book is out of reach and I can't find it online.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Also, the case of a priest hearing the confession (without absolution) of a catechumen should not be seen as hearing the confession of a non Orthodox. Once someone has been a made a catechumen, they are bound to the Church. The Church prays for them (though not by name) and they can be buried in an Orthodox cemetary. They shouldn't be considered heterodox.

M.

 

[repentant]

I think the seal of the Mystery, what makes the confession sacramental, is the absolution. That is when the Church, through the priest, confers Grace to the penitent. Everything else is simply a conversation with advice. A priest can hear anyone talk about anything but he can only confer absolution on Orthodox. To have had a sacramental confession, the Orthodox must receive absolution. In cases where penance must be performed a priest may withhold absolution after hearing confession and the Sacrament of Confession has not taken place.

An analogy could be made to the Divine Liturgy. Yes, Christ is in our midst during the whole of the service, so its very nature is sacramental, but non Orthodox can participate in the prayers and praises. The seal of the sacramental service of the DL is the Eucharist which is reserved for Orthodox.

I wish I could post the text for the service of Chrismation which includes absolution but the book is out of reach and I can't find it online.

I don't know but it sounds like you are agreeing with us. Also you are always granted absolution after confession and it would never be held for a penance. Penance is not for the forgiveness of your sins, but to prepare you for Holy Communion, after major sins. Once you confess your sins, and repent, you are forgiven and the Priests says the Prayers of absolution, which includes the 51st Psalm. A penance is meant to cleanse you after your sins, so you may receive Holy Communion worthily(is that a word).

And to reiterate, you need not to confess before Baptism, all is done during baptism including an exorsism. And a EO Preist may speak to a non-EO but only for guidance to the Faith, not confession.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I don't know but it sounds like you are agreeing with us.

I agree that only Orthodox can recieve the Sacrament of Confession. I am just saying that there isn't a problem with a priest hearing someone confess before baptism/chrismation.

Also you are always granted absolution after confession and it would never be held for a penance. Penance is not for the forgiveness of your sins, but to prepare you for Holy Communion, after major sins.

I think this depends on the confessor and what he thinks is necessary for the penetent. I do know that some priests will withhold absolution if the penitent needs to work on some things before returning to full communion with the Church.

Once you confess your sins, and repent, you are forgiven and the Priests says the Prayers of absolution, which includes the 51st Psalm. A penance is meant to cleanse you after your sins, so you may receive Holy Communion worthily(is that a word).

Sometimes people need to leave the confessional without absolution in order to repent.

Worthily is a word

And to reiterate, you need not to confess before Baptism, all is done during baptism including an exorsism.

Actually some Orthodox bishops require full life-time confession before baptism and chrismation. Mine did. This was the timeline:

1) Inquiry classes
2) Decision to enter the Church
3) Lifetime confession without absolution
4) Service of Chrismation which included absolution
5) Communion

 

[repentant]

Also, the case of a priest hearing the confession (without absolution) of a catechumen should not be seen as hearing the confession of a non Orthodox. Once someone has been a made a catechumen, they are bound to the Church. The Church prays for them (though not by name) and they can be buried in an Orthodox cemetary. They shouldn't be considered heterodox.

M.

Well a catechumen isn't made a catechumen, (in the true sense of the word) until the day of Baptism usually. This is when the new to be Orthodox person stands outside in the narthex, or just inside the Church, and faces west, and renounces satan, and spits, and the exorsism takes place, etc. Or in the case of baby the Godparent does it. When people refer to "catechumen" it just means someone studying the faith. They have not yet had any blessings done yet to accept them into Church. So if this person would die, they woul not be able to have an Orthodox funeral. You are made a literal Catechumen immediatley before Baptism. Well in the case of the Greek Church anyways.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Well a catechumen isn't made a catechumen, (in the true sense of the word) until the day of Baptism usually. This is when the new to be Orthodox person stands outside in the narthex, or just inside the Church, and faces west, and renounces satan, and spits, and the exorsism takes place, etc. Or in the case of baby the Godparent does it. When people refer to "catechumen" it just means someone studying the faith. They have not yet had any blessings done yet to accept them into Church. So if this person would die, they woul not be able to have an Orthodox funeral. You are made a literal Catechumen immediatley before Baptism. Well in the case of the Greek Church anyways.

Actually, the traditionally one was made a catechumen 3 years prior to baptism. That is why we have the litany for the catechumen in the DL ("Pray to the Lord you catechumen...All catechumen depart, depart catechumen...")

Some churches in the US have returned to this format performing the Service for the making of catechumen (standing outside the narthex, facing west, etc, etc) and the baptism/chrismation separately. So if someone says they are a catechumen, they probably have been made one by the Church.

For example, I was given the option of being a made a catchumen and continuing to study the faith for another year or so, or being made a catechumen just before my chrismation, since my priest said he thought I was ready to enter the Church. I opted for the latter.

M.

 

[repentant]

I agree that only Orthodox can recieve the Sacrament of Confession. I am just saying that there isn't a problem with a priest hearing someone confess before baptism/chrismation.



I think this depends on the confessor and what he thinks is necessary for the penetent. I do know that some priests will withhold absolution if the penitent needs to work on some things before returning to full communion with the Church.



Sometimes people need to leave the confessional without absolution in order to repent.

Worthily is a word



Actually some Orthodox bishops require full life-time confession before baptism and chrismation. Mine did. This was the timeline:

1) Inquiry classes
2) Decision to enter the Church
3) Lifetime confession without absolution
4) Service of Chrismation which included absolution
5) Communion

It is not necassary and even non-canonical for a Preist to hear an non-EO persons confession, before baptism or any other time. I have never heard in my entire life of a pre-baptismal confession. What would be the purpose?

Also confession is repentance. You confess because you want to repent. You are always read the absolution prayers by the Preist when you confess. Penance is to bring you back to receiving Communion from the Church, not so you may be forgiven. Once you confess, you are forgiven. It's just you must cleanse yourself by remaining free of major sins, and by penance you make up for the former ones. Absolution is always granted, or should be. God forbid you get hit by a car on the way home from the Church.

 

[repentant]

Actually, the traditionally one was made a catechumen 3 years prior to baptism. That is why we have the litany for the catechumen in the DL ("Pray to the Lord you catechumen...All catechumen depart, depart catechumen...")

Some churches in the US have returned to this format performing the Service for the making of catechumen (standing outside the narthex, facing west, etc, etc) and the baptism/chrismation separately. So if someone says they are a catechumen, they probably have been made one by the Church.

For example, I was given the option of being a made a catchumen and continuing to study the faith for another year or so, or being made a catechumen just before my chrismation, since my priest said he thought I was ready to enter the Church. I opted for the latter.

M.

What jurisdiction are you. The Greek Church does not do it like that. It is part of the Baptismal service. Well not part of the service of Baptism itself but ties into it.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

It is not necassary and even non-canonical for a Preist to hear an non-EO persons confession, before baptism or any other time. I have never heard in my entire life of a pre-baptismal confession. What would be the purpose?

I am specificly referring to a priest hearing a catechumen's confession before chrismation. Apparently, some priests believe it is a good/necessary thing for the person's preparation to recieve the Mysteries.

Absolution is always granted, or should be. God forbid you get hit by a car on the way home from the Church.

Again, withholding absolution is at the discretion of the priest. For some people in some cases, it may do more harm than good to receive Sacramental Confession if in fact no repentance has taken place.

M.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

What jurisdiction are you. The Greek Church does not do it like that. It is part of the Baptismal service. Well not part of the service of Baptism itself but ties into it.

I am OCA but I think other jurisdictions in the US do the service for making Catechumen and the Baptism/Chrismation seperately too.

Because we have so many jurisdictions represented here in the US, it is easy to see that canonical Orthodox churches sometimes choose to do things differently (with the approval of their bishops). There is less of the sort of mentality that says there is only one way to do things that do not fall under the category of big "T" traditions.

I've heard that in a couple of ROCOR churches they actually still dismiss the catechumen after the Liturgy of the Word.

M.

 

[repentant]

I am specificly referring to a priest hearing a catechumen's confession before chrismation. Apparently, some priests believe it is a good/necessary thing for the person's preparation to recieve the Mysteries.



Again, withholding absolution is at the discretion of the priest. For some people in some cases, it may do more harm than good to receive Sacramental Confession if in fact no repentance has taken place.

M.

I just have a question...Do you not beleive that if someone is confessing, that he is not repenting?