OC vs RCC

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Comparison of Catholic and Orthodox Liturgical Practices - YouTube

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Now Im willing to allow for cultural differences between dour Russians

(From Babylon 5: Lt. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova: So if we go down there it blows. If we don't it blows anyway just a little later. It's a good thing I'm Russian. We're used to hopeless situations. )

and cheery Brazilians... but roller skating angels and the rolling swingset is a little much

 

[Anhelyna]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear

This really is an unfair comparison - A Patriarch vs an Archbishop - not equal rank

A Patriarchal Hierarchical Liturgy with all the wonderful array of clergy , servers etc vs an Archbishop serving in a Cathedral which was for a special Service [ i.e. not a 'normal' Mass celebrated by an Archbishop ] .

Now I'm not defending the RC Church - we all know that liturgical dance is not permitted , and that display we saw in the video is not an example of good RC liturgical praxis - try looking for a Video of the Holy Father celebrating Mass in St Peter's if you want to see how it can be done.

I'm sorry - that's an unfair comparison - it's an example of the best of one versus the worst of the other.

 

[stevenfrancis]

I don't wish to participate in any further breakage between our brothers and sisters in the East, and the Latin Rite Church. We are two lungs of the same body. Before our blessed Lord returns we will be one. The Holy Spirit will do this. I pray often for our reconciliation, and hope that the Holy Spirit of God will guide all of us, East and West back to the unity we once shared. Our Orthodox brothers and sisters share all the sacraments, Apostolic succession, the Divine liturgy, Communion of Saints, Veneration of Mary, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The list goes on and on. Perhaps these are the most important things to focus on. On a personal level, I have nothing but the utmost respect and love for the Orthodox, and I pray with all my heart that we continue to knit together as the single force which hell will not withstand, particularly as the culture of death and doom continues to converge on both of us in the escalating battle for souls which is reaching fever pitch at this point in our history. Modernity, and it's pure and unveiled hatred for ALL (small 'o') orthodoxy (be it EO, Catholic, and Jewish) is the real enemy at hand. Not each other.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Comparison of Catholic and Orthodox Liturgical Practices - YouTube

Just watched the video. That was....um....shall we say...different than my experience of the mass. Wow. Where was this filmed, and during what circumstances? I don't even know what to say. Bizarre.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Not really fair to compare our best liturgical practices with the worst of the Catholic ones.

Here is a procession at St. Peter's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ9DZgo4bBM

Their liturgics still pale in comparison to Eastern practices, but it's certainly not that roller skating nonsense.

 

[RKO]

While I agree that the Divine Liturgy is generally far more beautiful than the average post Vatican II mass, this really is a comparison of a particularly beautiful DL to an extreme example of the Post V II silliness. It would be like comparing my 401K to the change in your pocket....Wait, you'd probably still win.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I agree, but let's take the TYPICAL novus ordo modern Catholic Mass and compare it to the WORST Divine Liturgy that is poorly-done, and you'll still see a marked difference. The Novus Ordo is a disaster.

While I agree that the Divine Liturgy is generally far more beautiful than the average post Vatican II mass, this really is a comparison of a particularly beautiful DL to an extreme example of the Post V II silliness. It would be like comparing my 401K to the change in your pocket....Wait, you'd probably still win.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Uh....those comparisons are not really fair, that was a bizarre RC mass. The video treats it as if those women dancing around, and the people swinging on whatever that thing is is standard RC liturgical practice. Not at all. Not at all.

I still prefer the DL myself over the mass, but a better comparison is deserved.

 

[RKO]

I agree, but let's take the TYPICAL novus ordo modern Catholic Mass and compare it to the WORST Divine Liturgy that is poorly-done, and you'll still see a marked difference. The Novus Ordo is a disaster.

No argument from me. It's a shame.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, that was odd. I didn't even see that kinda stuff when I was Episcopal (and that is saying a lot). I have seen services on EWTN and such, and while they are nowhere close to the DL (even comparing heirarchal with the Patriarch to a Mass with the Pope), that one is certainly an anomaly.

 

[GoingByzantine]

It would be a better learning tool if the person who made this video showed a "normal" post Vatican II mass compared to the DL.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But here's the deal...this kind of stuff DOES obviously happen! Standard or not, it's reality! And you can find liturgical dancers at Mass on Youtube in copious amounts, trust me! Then ask yourself this: would you EVER find a bunch of 'liturgical dancers' prancing around ANY Divine Liturgy anywhere on this planet?

Uh....those comparisons are not really fair, that was a bizarre RC mass. The video treats it as if those women dancing around, and the people swinging on whatever that thing is is standard RC liturgical practice. Not at all. Not at all.

I still prefer the DL myself over the mass, but a better comparison is deserved.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Comparison of Catholic and Orthodox Liturgical Practices - YouTube

Perhaps it's just me...

But from what I understand, the RC in question was the 'Basilica of The National Shrine of Our Lady of Aparecida' in Brazil, one of the Largest Roman Catholic Churches. Brazilian culture comes with many different actions - the same dynamic being present throughout Latin America. And apparently, the liturgy in this manner is allowed by the Vatican since the Second Vatican Council of 1962...for one must keep in mind Brazilians have different ways to praise and show their joy to God.

As it is, all papal masses in Brazil for at least the last ten years have all had something of connection with the cultural aspect of Carnival - no different than what happened when the Jesuits went to Asian nations (like St. Francis of Xavier) and presented the Gospel in ways similar to how the people understood/referencing aspects of Buddhist and Shinto imagery many times.

Thus, I don't understand the outrage unless people have had their heads buried in the sand all this time. For Rome has no intention of putting the lid on the issue so we might as well adjust and avoid Brazil if we are faint of heart.


From what I was able to find out, the Mass is the re-presentation of Our Savior on Calvary..

Other videos that gave more full coverage:

Novena Solene | Entrada de Nossa Senhora Aparecida - 2º dia - 04 de Outubro de 2012 - YouTube

And Pope Francis actually spoke at this Church recently:

Pope Francis celebrates Mass at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Aparecida - YouTube
The Pope at Rio - Visit and Holy Mass at the Aparecida - YouTube
The Shrine of Our Lady of Aparecida in Brazil - YouTube

Again, this the same church at which Pope Francis celebrated Mass today - the Aparecida Shrine. All of this was within the context of out evangelization of the youth, Brazilian-style - in light of World Youth Day in Rio and preparation for that.....

Novena Solene | Entrada da BÃ[bless and do not curse]blia - 3º dia - dia 05 de Outubro de 2012 - YouTube

Novena Solene | Entrada da BÃ[bless and do not curse]blia - 4º dia - 06 de Outubro de 2012 - YouTube


Novena Solene | Entrada da BÃ[bless and do not curse]blia - 5º dia - 07 de Outubro de 2012 - YouTube


And All 3 of the videos I had posted above are from separate days of a Solemn Novena which took place in Brazil in October, 2012, to beg graces from Mother Aparecida. The first video of the gaudy carnival float was presided over by Bishop Edson Taschetto (Tasquetto) Damian, the bishop of São Gabriel da Cachoeira, Amazonas. He was ordained bishop in 2009.

The second video with the chains and blindfolds (minus "Thriller" Michael Jackson), has Archbishop José Belisario da Silva as the presider. Archbishop Jose Belisario Da Silva of Sao Luis do Maranhao, Brazil, was appointed archbishop on June 29, 2006.

The third video with the carnival stilt-walkers, has Archbishop Murilo Ramos Krieger as the presider. He is Archbishop of Salvador (BA), and Primate of Brazil, since his appointment on 12 January 2011.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Comparison of Catholic and Orthodox Liturgical Practices - YouTube

Something that came to my mind immediately is that it doesn't seem accurate to take a video of one type of Mass done in the Catholic world of Brazil at one time.....then show an Orthodox video of another mass that's solem...and say that stands for the difference in how Liturgical services are done, as if one supports dancing and the other doesn't. For there are many other Mass services done in Brazil by the same church in view that aren't the same as the one in the video you noted - many of which are as solem as the Orthodox service.

Moreover, as it concerns dancing, I'd think it'd be more accurate to show Orthodox services that actually do dance if trying to make a real comparision.

Oriental Orthodox Liturgy - Recession - YouTube
Ethiopian Orthodox song Communion Dance - YouTube
Ethiopian Orthodox Church Woreb.mp4 - YouTube
Indian orthodox church procession of St stephens orthodox church 1-9-2010 - YouTube
Indian orthodox church procession of St stephens orthodox church 1-9-2010 - YouTube
Indian orthodox church procession of St stephens orthodox church 1-9-2010 - YouTube

 

[GoingByzantine]

But here's the deal...this kind of stuff DOES obviously happen! Standard or not, it's reality! And you can find liturgical dancers at Mass on Youtube in copious amounts, trust me! Then ask yourself this: would you EVER find a bunch of 'liturgical dancers' prancing around ANY Divine Liturgy anywhere on this planet?

This is one of the many reasons I was pulled away from "latin" rite, the DL is ancient and traditional. The vernacular mass is lacking the spirituality that I am looking for, the DL is very very special.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

So are you staying Catholic through the Eastern Catholic route or are you considering Holy Orthodoxy? In any case, God bless, Byzantine!

This is one of the many reasons I was pulled away from "latin" rite, the DL is ancient and traditional. The vernacular mass is lacking the spirituality that I am looking for, the DL is very very special.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

G,

You post SIX Youtube vids in one post!?! Dude, do you seriously think anyone looks at all six of those puppies? My Lord!

 

[RKO]

This may not be to everyone's taste, but I find this Mass to be very cool.

IMG 1185 True melding of African ritual and catholic mass - YouTube

 

[ArmyMatt]

But here's the deal...this kind of stuff DOES obviously happen! Standard or not, it's reality! And you can find liturgical dancers at Mass on Youtube in copious amounts, trust me! Then ask yourself this: would you EVER find a bunch of 'liturgical dancers' prancing around ANY Divine Liturgy anywhere on this planet?

while that is true, on the same token it would be like looking at New Skete and making it seem like that is the "norm" of Orthodox monasticism. even though Rome has been ever leaving the Truth for a while now, that wackidoo stuff is not fair to compare with a DL with Patriarch Kyrill