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Obama and HHS vs Little Sisters of the Poor

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by Chrystal-J, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

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    Link: Bad Optics: Obama and HHS vs Little Sisters of the Poor

    ...How can these religious Sisters, living in a country where the first amendment to its constitution insists upon a free expression of religion and the exercise thereof be in peril? Because the HHS and the Obama Administration say that if the Sisters do not deny their own consciences and offer insurance policies to their employees that include free coverage for sterilization procedures, artificial contraceptives and abortifacients, these vowed-to-poverty women will have to pay approximately a million dollars in IRS fines, effectively making their work near-to-impossible.
     
  2. That's disgusting. We ought to pray for these sisters. I wonder if there's a way we can help, like some sort of petition?
     
  3. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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  4. football5680

    football5680 Newbie

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    Liberals hate America and Christianity. They will do everything in their power to destroy them both.
     
  5. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

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    My church had a petition going. (Not regarding the Little Sisters, but in general regarding this issue.) We had people lined up to sign.
     
  6. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    Do as i say or pay the cost. ~ Obama.

    I wish i had money to give to ACLJ. I really do.
     
  7. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    religious orders are exempt from the HHS mandate

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  8. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

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    Only the Churches themselves are exempt. Not 'businesses' of the church who hired lay people.
     
  9. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    :thumbsup: If folks had bothered to read the articles, they would have seen that.

    Not only that, if a religious order (or a person for that matter) listens and obeys Jesus' command to be charitable to all (not just members of one's own religion), he is not exempt and must violate his conscience to provide abortifacients to others so that these folks may kill their unborn. That's evil!
     
  10. sonshine234

    sonshine234 New Member

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    [sarcasm]But it's not bad because people need insurance and it's a good thing[/sarcasm]
     
  11. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

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    I'm beginning to think that Obamacare is just a ploy to try to undermine the church and bankrupt people who are burdened down with these premiums.
     
  12. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Parishes, dioceses, religious orders, seminaries and convents are all totally exempt
     
  13. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    You gain wisdom, Grasshopper.

    Personally, I think that all of those who are determined to force this abhorrency upon people of faith will have a lot to answer for in the next world.
     
  14. judechild

    judechild Catholic Socratic

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    It's not about their convents; it's about their apostulate in hospice-services, which is not exempt. If they do not provide contraceptive, abortifacent, and sterilization insurance to the employees working at their homes for the elderly, then they will be forced to exit the market because of the fines. In other words, they cannot be Catholic hospice-providers; they can only be secular hospice-providers who happen to be Catholic.
     
  15. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    You mean "Catholics who are no longer loyal to the magisterium". May the Lord save us from the injustice of that type of hospice-provider!
     
  16. Chrystal-J

    Chrystal-J the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

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    I agree!
     
  17. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Thank you. Finally the facts. Religious Orders are exempt.
     
  18. judechild

    judechild Catholic Socratic

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    The Sisters are not suing because of their order, so the point is moot; read the case and see what the suit is about. The idea is that their religious freedom is being ignored because they cannot be employers who are Catholic employers; instead, they are being forced to separate their private religious beliefs from their public civic service. Really, you're sounding like a Victorian more than anything; the Victorian two-spheres theory also held to a strict separation between the public and private spheres - except then it was women in general who weren't supposed to enter the public sphere, now it's religious persons. If religious persons want to enter the public sphere, they are being forced to bifurcate into two people: the private person who can have religious beliefs, and the secular public person who is not influenced by those beliefs. In other words, their private religious beliefs cannot influence their public decisions; hence, it does not matter whether the sisters cannot provide contraception coverage to employees according to their religious beliefs - because, when they are acting as public, civic persons, their religious beliefs have no relevance; because in the public sphere, only secularists are allowed to act. What this means is that the Sisters cannot be Catholic employers; but that is directly against religious freedom. Dunque, they are suing.

    I also have an idea that you'd be rather upset if, in a hypothetical time of war, religious orders that ran any kind of public service were required to purchase war-bonds corresponding to the number of employees - irrespective of whether or not they claim to be pacifist; but that is an exactly-similar situation.

    Such a disappointment that the orders that spend their time helping the poor won't be allowed to do it, if things continue. Of course, that will undoubtably be to the glee of some individuals who like to perpetuate the myth that it's the progressive orders that really care about the poor (the Little Sisters, like all of Foucauld's orders, actually live with the poor in complete solidarity). It's also very convenient for advocates of a completely secular society that they have somehow convinced people that it is only in becoming exactly like them that there is diversity - hence they can excuse themselves from actually having to think at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
    sonshine234 likes this.
  19. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    In order to get an exemption from the draconian HHS Mandate, one can *only* be of service to folks of one's own religion. (What are we supposed to do? Ask for a Baptismal certificate before offering aid? Sort of "show me your papers?" Y'all didn't even want folks who were suspected of trespassing in the country to show that they were actually citizens and entitled to a portion of the country's largesse. Y'all can't be "talking out of both sides of your mouths". So what it is? Help all (regardless of their religious beliefs) or are we only to serve those in our own religion in order to get the exemption? Then what happens to the command of Jesus?

    Jesus told us that our mission (yes, the Church's and so ours) is to serve our neighbor whether he be Catholic, Evangelical Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Buddhist, or if he believes in nothing at all. Is the government trying to usurp Jesus?

    Can't be because even Benjamin Franklin (one of our nation's founders) also said that we serve God best when we serve our neighbor.
     
  20. KatherineS

    KatherineS New Member

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    Correct. The Little Sisters of the Poor are exempt from the HHS essential benefits rule. The Order is not required to provide any such insurance.