1. Saying Goodbye to a Great Staffer: Edial
    Please help me wish Edial a wonderful blessed journey as he steps down from CF staff.
    His footprint on our ministry will always remain but his presence will be greatly missed. I'm sure he will come around as a member to all his favorite forums but for now please join me at his profile page to wish him many thanks for the years of service he has brought to us all.
    All of us on CF staff will miss him dearly!!
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Obama Administration to Severely Wounded Vets: Suicide is Painless!

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter

    Messages:
    83,538
    Likes Received:
    3,319
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Catholic
    http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/21/obama-administration-to-severely-wounded-vets-suicide-is-painless/
     
  2. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

    Messages:
    16,988
    Likes Received:
    886
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Catholic
    The question is: What does the pamphlet actually say in its pages?
     
    Gwendolyn likes this.
  3. LogosRhema

    LogosRhema Awake

    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    113
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Buddhist
    Well back in the day there was no treatment so you just died, is it suicide to decide to refuse treatment due to idealism in your head? There are even more faulty idealism in carelessness and for every McD meal they have or cigarette brings them closer to death. Where do you draw the line? We are all slowly dying regardless... Should a vet decide to refuse treatment and die of his wounds (honorably) then I don't see why not.
     
  4. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

    Messages:
    23,119
    Likes Received:
    1,821
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Democrat
    Faith:
    Catholic
    That's what I was going to say, too.

    With all the healthcare document witchhunting going on, I don't have any desire to read 1/2 of 1% of the content of anything.
     
  5. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

    Messages:
    25,276
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Catholic
    If they can do this to our Veterans, they can do this to our seniors. (Oh wait...they actually are trying--courtesy of the very same Hemlock Society, who are doing massive lobbying.)
     
  6. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

    Messages:
    12,828
    Likes Received:
    744
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Catholic
    The contents of the actual book is here;

    http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf


    Scanning through it, I saw nothing that makes it the evil document the WSJ author makes it out to be.

    Also, its not only for vets who were wounded in war, but vets who receive medical treatement from the VA, who become terminally ill. They need to know their options. It has nothing to do with telling wounded vets, its better to give up and die.

    The neighbor down the street from me, operates a hospice house, for Vets who have terminal illnesses, and have no one to care for them.

    A book like this would be beneficial to them.


    Jim
     
    wiselife likes this.
  7. bliz

    bliz Contributor

    Messages:
    9,393
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Thanks for the link, Jim. I agree. This is not quite the "Let's talk about what fun suicide willl be!" document the OP and the writer seem to think it is. I've just skimmed, but have found a list of attitudes about end of life matters including:

    a list of attitudes about end of life matters including:


    I'd want my religious advisors to be consulted about all
    medical decisions made on my behalf to make sure
    they are in keeping with my religious teachings.


    My life should be prolonged as long as it can, no matter
    what its quality, and using any means possible.

    Further on, there's a whole section on helping people figure out how their religious beliefs interact with end of life issues.

    I find the writing a bit ham fisted, but this is not a call for people to off themselves.

    These are real and serious issues, but I fear the distorters will have cried "Wolf!" way too many times that no one will pay attention when the real wolf comes along.




     
    singalovesong likes this.
  8. elliott95

    elliott95 JESUS PRAISER

    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    88
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Catholic
    ..
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  9. elliott95

    elliott95 JESUS PRAISER

    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    88
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Catholic
    ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  10. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

    Messages:
    21,032
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Catholic
    My Dr. at the VA is incompetent anyway.

    Its the Klingon way to die honorably because one isn't whole.

    Since when was it human to do so?

    Amazing stuff going on.
     
    WarriorAngel likes this.
  11. benedictaoo

    benedictaoo Legend

    Messages:
    26,196
    Likes Received:
    2,640
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Catholic
    Jim,

    Why do we need to know about the options...? what are those options..? that you can die and we will assist you do that if that's what you want?

    It seems as a way of slipping assisted suicide in through a back door.
     
  12. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,042
    Likes Received:
    2,016
    Gender:
    Male
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    CA-Conservatives
    Faith:
    Catholic
    Why is the government now so eager to give everybody a list of options?


    Sometimes, when people are at the edge of a steep cliff, all it takes is a little, just a teensie weensie, itsy bitsy ....

    nudge...


    So why does a government want to do this?
    Gee, I can't think of any reasons why they want too......:confused:
    There could be billions or trillions of reason for all I know, but nary a one comes to mind:confused:
     
  13. JoabAnias

    JoabAnias Steward of proportionality- I Cor 13:1, 1 Tim 3:15 Supporter

    Messages:
    21,032
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Catholic
    A practical example of socialized medicine;

    Since last April and loosing BCBS I have gone on the VA as I am a retired vet and have that option though its a last resort for medical coverage.

    Since then, my cholesterol has gone up over 250 and triglycerides up over 577 and I can't get the VA doctor to prescribe anything yet. I will be contacting the patient advocate this week to complain.

    5 months ago, with the meds my private Dr. had me on, my numbers were normal and I requested the same meds when I went over to the VA.

    I was shuffled out the door without them pending lipid tests despite the history I showed. The first test came back high after a month without the meds but according to my Indian Dr., not high enough for treatment and scheduled me for another check three months later which I just took a couple weeks ago.

    In the past 4 months, with two lipid tests since first going off the meds, my levels are through the roof again.

    Ive been on Cholesterol meds for 4 years. But everything I said to this VA Dr. went in one ear and out the other without her own tests and trials. Meanwhile exactly what I showed her from past tests is happening and its as if I have no input.

    Well after this last test that shows 577 for triglycerides (which should be 150) she sends me Niacin through the mail which takes a week to arrive and I am allergic to and can't take anyway, without even talking to me. They send Niacin because they ration meds and are mandated to try the cheapest or generics first. I found this out while on active duty years ago.

    I hope your all ready for socialized medicine where your at the mercy of an incompetent Dr. as a prime care provider you have no choice of who decides what you do or do not need. All who voted for this admin will deserve it!

    Not to mention, there is no waiting line less than 50 people long.

    I would never have gotten laid off in the first place without this radical! How many millions of jobs have been lost under this radical already. Wake up America! Can you tell it ticks me off?

    If I had something more serious to be treated I would likely choose an ER or to die before letting the incompetent VA get near me or set through their inefficient bureaucracy for days to just hope I got what I needed when real doctors have already done the work for them but who I can't afford to pay out of pocket.

    I demand the same exact medical insurance as the politicians have or they can take thier stealth foca and euthanasia and shove it!
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
    Deo_Adiuvante likes this.
  14. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

    Messages:
    25,276
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Catholic
    JoabAnias, I really feel for you. My husband also goes to the VA. He finally got an appointment for the test he was to have expedited after an illness last year (or maybe it was his regularly scheduled test since there was a question about whether he still wants it--but of course, if it was the regular one, it isn't exactly timely, since his regular one would have been in July instead of the October it is now in. ) Oh well...we have to make due, but I can't imagine anyone who has a choice settling...

    You are correct, the ER care (that is available to anyone) is better than the rationed (and sometimes non-existent) care that the government has been giving our vets. Somehow I think we should expect better treatment for the ones who defended our freedom. To not provide that just seems wrong.
     
    JoabAnias likes this.
  15. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,042
    Likes Received:
    2,016
    Gender:
    Male
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    CA-Conservatives
    Faith:
    Catholic
    You are a liar for Jesus??!!

    Now that is an interesting theology, one must admit!!

    Kind of reminds me of an Old Testament whore, who lied for the Hebrew spies.

    Carry on then, monseigneur.

    Tel us some of your Jesus lies.
     
  16. kiwimac

    kiwimac Minister, Liberal, Quaker, Theologian and TSSF Supporter

    Messages:
    23,299
    Likes Received:
    1,016
    Gender:
    Male
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    AU-Greens
    Faith:
    Utrecht
    Many Christians and Christian groups seem to find it acceptable to lie for God. "This healthcare bill promotes" >Pick thing you most dislike< when in fact it does nothing at all like what is claimed for it.
     
  17. fated

    fated The White Hart

    Messages:
    8,648
    Likes Received:
    460
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Catholic
    This is why you always want to build someone up at this point with a good psychologist, that wants patients to live. Psychologist, who deal with a lot of negative emotions, see a desire for suicide as an illness. And I believe that this is the case. Show them hope, and they'll come out of the woods.

    This was my problem with the health bill to, it wasn't the objective itself, but the time and nature of it being introduced that causes the ambiguity.
     
  18. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,042
    Likes Received:
    2,016
    Gender:
    Male
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    CA-Conservatives
    Faith:
    Catholic
    Oh you are calling other Christians liars.

    Gotcha.

    That is so sweet of you to do so, Father.
     
  19. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

    Messages:
    9,944
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Catholic
  20. fated

    fated The White Hart

    Messages:
    8,648
    Likes Received:
    460
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Catholic
    If they were handing it to everyone when they were preparing to be deployed or something that would be a lot different then giving it to critically wounded persons, when it would be better for them to meet with someone positive, who considers suicide to be avoided, and sees value in life.

    The context can be all wrong for a objective analysis.
     
Loading...