My challenge is, how can I change how I define God (to myself) so that I can begin to view him as the God of Christianity instead, and on a personal level rather than just an abstract figure "out there" . . . What was it that gave you a perspective of God as a personal God? Can you point to one or two things that convinced you that God was a personal God instead of just an abstract figure?
The only quibble I have with your allegory concerning Obama is that . . . Obama may be an abstract figure, where you know of him, but isn't it true that the skeptics among us could easily turn the TV on and see him and hear him speak? That disqualifies him from the abstract and makes him very real. It's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison. Having said that, however, I do get the main point of your allegory.
As I understand it, a relationship with God is based on love, which is a purely emotional position, so to those of us like me who are less emotional and much more analytical, it's difficult to separate the emotional aspect from a relationship.
I pray that God overshadows you with the holy spirit and guides you in understanding. Through Jesus Christ the way the truth and the light. Amen!!!
Thanks, all for your efforts and thoughts. Thinking further on this subject, I've had a couple thoughts that might shed further light on my inability to get it.
Secondly, and this is probably related to my first point, is that in today's society, we have been raised to stand on our own, be independent, and to not lean too much on anyone else. At least that's how I was raised, and this probably pertains more to men than women (I'm generalizing here). Men particularly are expected to be the provided, the leader and strong in on their own. So, going into the personal God-thing with that mindset, it's just another hurdle to a personal God. To admit you cannot stand on your own and aren't independent is to show weakness.
Thus, unless, as I said, some sort of crisis occurs in my life occurs that might permanently render my perspective on God differently, I suspect that I'm about as close to him as I'll ever get, and further attempts at such will probably remain fruitless and frustrating.
trustgod said:First, I think that I'm just wired differently. Enough so that the need for a supreme being (God, etc.) in my life isn't that great. I can intellectually grasp the concept of a God, who most likely exists, but I cannot, for the life of me, make it beyond that.
MY BROTHER,Thanks, all for your efforts and thoughts. Thinking further on this subject, I've had a couple thoughts that might shed further light on my inability to get it.
First, I think I'm just wired differently. Enough so that the need for a supreme being (God, etc.) in my life isn't that great. I can intellectually grasp the concept of a God, who most likely exists, but I cannot, for the life of me, make it beyond that.
So, I'm too smart for my own good? When did reliance on intelligence become a problem?MY BROTHER,
If i may say so, it appears that your problem is that you rely on your intelligence rather than your heart to lead you to God. You've got things backwards! This is the same difficulty that got the Apostle Paul in so much trouble that, as you say, it took a major crisis to jar him loose from his left-brain fixation.
Okay, I get it. No intelligence allowed in Christianity. Thanks, but I'll pass.In other words, stop with the Mr. Spock already and give the Spirit space to work!
Reliance on intelligence becomes a problem when the mind takes off on its own rather than being controlled and guided by the Heart and the Holy Spirit therein dwelling. This is the same grave mistake at the center of our forebears' seeking the "knowledge of good and evil" on their own, apart from God, rather than seeking Truth within through a direct connection with God in their Hearts.So, I'm too smart for my own good? When did reliance on intelligence become a problem?
No--you don't "get it", and have admitted as much--that being the reason for your OP--is that not correct? You are not "wired differently". Your difficulty is that you have not allowed yourself to be re-wired so that your self-described "over intellectualizing," which you "can't get beyond" in reaching out for God, is controlled by your Heart--a Heart tuned in to God and getting its input directly from the Source of all Truth, rather than directly from your unaided and uncontrolled mind which can only falsely claim to understand anything about "truth." Only with God in control is any real intelligence possible.Okay, I get it. No intelligence allowed in Christianity. Thanks, but I'll pass.
I think we're at an impasse here. Saying that reliance on intelligence is a grave mistake doesn't compute with me. Appreciate your help, however.Reliance on intelligence becomes a problem when the mind takes off on its own rather than being controlled and guided by the Heart and the Holy Spirit therein dwelling. This is the same grave mistake at the center of our forebears' seeking the "knowledge of good and evil" on their own, apart from God, rather than seeking Truth within through a direct connection with God in their Hearts.
No--you don't "get it", and have admitted as much--that being the reason for your OP--is that not correct? You are not "wired differently". Your difficulty is that you have not allowed yourself to be re-wired so that your self-described "over intellectualizing," which you "can't get beyond" in reaching out for God, is controlled by your Heart--a Heart tuned in to God and getting its input directly from the Source of all Truth, rather than directly from your unaided and uncontrolled mind which can only falsely claim to understand anything about "truth." Only with God in control is any real intelligence possible.
A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim
You, yourself, diagnosed this as the root of your problem in being unable to touch God. All i am is a mirror. Were you not seeking answers, why ask questions?I think we're at an impasse here. Saying that reliance on intelligence is a grave mistake doesn't compute with me. Appreciate your help, however.
My point was that we are all initially "wired" the same, and you are not "wired" any "differently" than the rest of us--prior to our new Birth into the Kingdom. All human beings since the rebellion in the Garden attempt to use their brains to process their "knowledge of good and evil." Unfortunately, the brain being merely a computer, operates on the principle of "Garbage in--garbage out." Thus the chaotic dying world we inhabit today. Our "knowledge of good and evil" is killing us--physically, mentally, emotionally, and, most importantly, Spiritually--as you appear well aware.If I'm not wired differently, why do I need to be re-wired? That's a contradiction.
Help?Again, thanks for your help anyways...
When did reliance on intelligence become a problem?
Okay, I get it. No intelligence allowed in Christianity. Thanks, but I'll pass.
Authority is very different from intelligence. Why didn't he just say authority, instead of insulting my intelligence by implying that I have to check my brain at the door before I will "get it?"Never, quite frankly.
Intelligence is not the problem. Authority is. That's what ephraim is driving at, and quite rightly. From the garden in Eden to our 21st century society, our attitude of 'autonomy' has been the problem, i.e., looking to ourselves as the crucial arbiter of truth, meaning, purpose, etc. Adam and Eve did it, and mankind is still doing it today.
He implied that intelligence, i.e., using one's brain, was not compatible with Christianity. At least that's how it came across to me. I think you know that's incredibly wrong.I think you know that's incredibly unfair.
You, yourself, diagnosed this as the root of your problem in being unable to touch God. All i am is a mirror. Were you not seeking answers, why ask questions?
Garbage in, garbage out is not a "principle" of a computer. It merely predicts the output given a certain set of inputs.My point was that we are all initially "wired" the same, and you are not "wired" any "differently" than the rest of us--prior to our new Birth into the Kingdom. All human beings since the rebellion in the Garden attempt to use their brains to process their "knowledge of good and evil." Unfortunately, the brain being merely a computer, operates on the principle of "Garbage in--garbage out."
I was merely trying to be nice...Help?
MY BROTHER: According to the world's view of things, is not "logic" a by-product of "intelligence?"Nope. I never said intelligence was a problem, nor the root of my problem. I merely said I am more of a logical person than an emotional person.
Principle of computer USAGE, then. Seems to me the point remains, word games being stationary and disallowing progress and all.Garbage in, garbage out is not a "principle" of a computer. It merely predicts the output given a certain set of inputs.
i do appreciate that. Hopefully, some of it will rub off on me.I was merely trying to be nice...
Authority is very different from intelligence. Why didn't he just say authority, instead of insulting my intelligence by implying that I have to check my brain at the door before I will "get it?"