North Dakota legislature fails to override veto of transgender pronoun bill

[rjs330]

With any ideology, there's always going to be some people who don't want to stop at the red line, but I don't think it does any good (or give opposing viewpoints any credibility) to try to overcorrect for that in the other direction. Once that occurs, whatever slim chance there was of finding middle ground goes right out the window.

It'd be like saying that because there's a percentage of religious people who don't want to abide by the limitations set by the first amendment with regards to church & state, that the only solution would be to remove religion of public life altogether our of fear of a slippery slope

There is no correction needed. Those of us at the red line are not trying to over correct. We are say no correction is needed period. Leave it all alone and don't force anyone to use a chosen pronoun. I don't believe any of us are asking for only accurate pronouns to be used it face punishment. I dont think we are saying you have to use the proper pronoun for your sex or you will be punished in some fashion.

I think I have already pointed out that the slippery slope has already happened. No need to worry that it might any more. We are already there and went over the edge

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think I have already pointed out that the slippery slope has already happened. No need to worry that it might any more. We are already there and went over the edge

But isn't the reaction to that overcorrection?

For instance, a plurality of people support pot, but don't support legalizing heroin.

If a group of people "did the slippery slope" and started pushing for heroin, wouldn't saying "That's it, we're going to back to making it all illegal" be overcorrection?


To put it in perspective:
Overall, roughly half of Americans (52%), including 61% of people ages 18-29, say they would be somewhat or very comfortable using a gender-neutral or preferred pronoun to refer to someone who is transgender. (according to gallup poll)


Being (understandably) upset that one side has pushed things a bit to far, and trying to address it by taking an approach that over half of the country doesn't agree with, would be the definition of over-correction.

Like I mentioned before, if people didn't want to stop at the line before, the solution isn't to scrap everything, it's to take it back to the aforementioned line.

 

[Pommer]

There is no correction needed. Those of us at the red line are not trying to over correct. We are say no correction is needed period. Leave it all alone and don't force anyone to use a chosen pronoun. I don't believe any of us are asking for only accurate pronouns to be used it face punishment. I dont think we are saying you have to use the proper pronoun for your sex or you will be punished in some fashion.

I think I have already pointed out that the slippery slope has already happened. No need to worry that it might any more. We are already there and went over the edge

“Society is fine don’t touch that thermostat!” isn’t going to work no more.

 

[Pommer]

But isn't the reaction to that overcorrection?

For instance, a plurality of people support pot, but don't support legalizing heroin.

If a group of people "did the slippery slope" and started pushing for heroin, wouldn't saying "That's it, we're going to back to making it all illegal" be overcorrection?


To put it in perspective:
Overall, roughly half of Americans (52%), including 61% of people ages 18-29, say they would be somewhat or very comfortable using a gender-neutral or preferred pronoun to refer to someone who is transgender. (according to gallup poll)


Being (understandably) upset that one side has pushed things a bit to far, and trying to address it by taking an approach that over half of the country doesn't agree with, would be the definition of over-correction.

Like I mentioned before, if people didn't want to stop at the line before, the solution isn't to scrap everything, it's to take it back to the aforementioned line.

Everyone is trying to “get back to normal”; only this is “normal” for “interesting times”.
Enjoy!

 

[rjs330]

But isn't the reaction to that overcorrection?

No o one is asking for an over correction. I think I've already pointed that out. No one has demanded that people use only the pronouns of their actual sex. That would be an over correction. A correction is not always an over correction.

If people want to use whatever pronoun I don't care. Just do force others to do it if they don't want to. That would simply be a correction.

 

[Larniavc]

Compelled speech is oppression...remember?

On second thought, let's not go to America. 'Tis a silly place.

 

[Larniavc]

If removing Christianity from education was beneficial, the world would have a point. It's not. Modern Americans are so fat, so addled with drugs, so struggling with mental health issues that it is difficult to find people fit enough to join the military.

That’s an American problem: not a ‘lacks Christianity’ problem. America is more religious than nearly every other western developed nature. It’s not ‘lack’ of Christianity that is a problem.

 

[Larniavc]

How many times has your scenario actually happened to you?

The changing rooms where I go to swim are all unisex with cubicles. I can’t remember the last time it wasn’t like that.

 

[rjs330]

The changing rooms where I go to swim are all unisex with cubicles. I can’t remember the last time it wasn’t like that.

That wouldn't be a problem then would it. No woman is being forced to watch a man undress. But you certainly don't live in such an isolated world that you think everywhere is like that do you?

Cause I can tell you there isn't. Place within 500 miles of where I live that has that.

 

[Pommer]

That wouldn't be a problem then would it. No woman is being forced to watch a man undress. But you certainly don't live in such an isolated world that you think everywhere is like that do you?

Cause I can tell you there isn't. Place within 500 miles of where I live that has that.

So let’s change that so that no women have to be forced to watch a man undress.
Individual cubicles for changing in public and private locker-rooms.
Everyone wins!

 

[rjs330]

So let’s change that so that no women have to be forced to watch a man undress.
Individual cubicles for changing in public and private locker-rooms.
Everyone wins!

Except the business that has to rebuild their entire locker room, which these days is extremely costly. All for what? The one trans person that might come in once a year? Seems a bit over kill.

 

[Pommer]

Except the business that has to rebuild their entire locker room, which these days is extremely costly. All for what? The one trans person that might come in once a year? Seems a bit over kill.

You’re right, just lump transgender folk in with the ADA, it’s already there, in place, forcing businesses to be accommodating to different levels of ability of the people who frequent their establishments. Unless they’re not “‘disabled’ in the correct way” then we can just go back to ignoring them or claim that there’s too few to care anything about?

 

[rjs330]

You’re right, just lump transgender folk in with the ADA, it’s already there, in place, forcing businesses to be accommodating to different levels of ability of the people who frequent their establishments. Unless they’re not “‘disabled’ in the correct way” then we can just go back to ignoring them or claim that there’s too few to care anything about?

Are you saying they are disabled?

 

[Aussie Pete]

That’s an American problem: not a ‘lacks Christianity’ problem. America is more religious than nearly every other western developed nature. It’s not ‘lack’ of Christianity that is a problem.

I'm 71, I've been saved for 50 years. I've seen the decline of Christianity in America. It's even more pronounced in the last few years. Oddly enough, so is the rise of obesity, drug addiction, gun violence, mental health issues, and the absurd flat earth conspiracies. Also, free speech is no longer a given, woke progressives have taken over education, and yes, LGBTQI and whatever else is being shoved down people's throats, like it or not.

America is headed for irrelevancy and impotence. It's not enough to sing "God bless America" and then reject God's ways. He will have something to say about that. And if He ignored, His blessing comes off. Homosexuality is a direct result of rejecting God. You don't have to agree. I just read what the Bible has to say about it. If you have a problem, I suggest that you take it up with God.

 

[Pommer]

America is headed for irrelevancy and impotence. It's not enough to sing "God bless America" and then reject God's ways. He will have something to say about that. And if He ignored, His blessing comes off. Homosexuality is a direct result of rejecting God. You don't have to agree. I just read what the Bible has to say about it. If you have a problem, I suggest that you take it up with God.

Yeah, America’s Hegemony is just about run it’s course; China has four times the number of people, guess which developing nation will hoist that belt?
And you* get to “blame” our decline on getting away from God!
China will be the Big Nation on campus from about 2050 to ???
You can blame China’s upcoming dominance in World affairs on whatever you’d like, but it’s a-happening.

*generic

 

[Larniavc]

I've seen the decline of Christianity in America.

Funny how America is significantly more Christian than it’s contemporaries in the western nations and yet those other nations are not in decline.

Christianity seems to correlate nicely with ‘decline’.

 

[rjs330]

Funny how America is significantly more Christian than it’s contemporaries in the western nations and yet those other nations are not in decline.

Christianity seems to correlate nicely with ‘decline’.

He said a decline in Christianity. We are seeing a decline in America and a fragmentation of America as Americans become less religious. America is declining in value systems.

 

[KCfromNC]

I'm far more concerned about transgenderism right now.

And yet your previous post included LGB in addition to T. But if that was unintentional, just change my questions from asking about the messaging you think would turn to gay to asking about the messaging which would be most likely to make you trans.

 

[FireDragon76]

That’s an American problem: not a ‘lacks Christianity’ problem. America is more religious than nearly every other western developed nature. It’s not ‘lack’ of Christianity that is a problem.

The people that are struggling the most, in my experience as an American, tend to be the least religiously affiliated. Take that for what it's worth, I'm not necessarily implying a causal connection. But it does seem that less religious participation hasn't really helped alot of younger Americans. It's left them lonelier and more socially isolated.

 

[Larniavc]

He said a decline in Christianity. We are seeing a decline in America and a fragmentation of America as Americans become less religious. America is declining in value systems.

My rubutal to my antipodean friend was how countries with a decline in Christianity are doing better and better.

If America is in decline it is in spite of it’s decline in Christianity.