NonDenom here, at a crossroads.. Catholic or Episcopalian?

[QWERTY]

Hi all, first post here. Let me start by saying I understand this is the Catholic board and you guys will be naturally biased. Let me explain my problem.

So I was baptized in a Baptist Church as a kid and eventually fell away from it and considered myself 'nondenominational'. Well, I eventually started going to a nondenominational church with the family and found that not only did they have different values from me, I also didn't enjoy the contemporary setting.

A month ago I tried out a Catholic church for the first time and fell in love with liturgy. The last two or three weeks I've attended Episcopal churches for the first time as well.

Well, I know I want to join one of the two, but and I lean towards Catholic based on the culture (I'm of Italian descent, so it just makes sense haha) and the history. I also believe that it is, by extension, the church Jesus founded.

Problem is, when it comes to my values, I lean towards the mainstream stances of the Episcopal church. Examples: I see no problem with married women using birth control. I'm personally against abortion, but agree more with the pro-choice argument. I see no real issue with women being ordained. I'm also a supporter of equal rights for homosexuals (knowing a few gay people really puts things into perspective and makes you realize that they deserve the same rights you have).

Now, I know that last paragraph is chock-FULL of things that the Catholic church teaches against, but I know some Catholics that agree with me on those issues and it doesn't seem to affect their worthiness. There are also famous Catholics, such as Joe Biden and Stephen Colbert, that disagree with the church on a number of the above issues.



Should I join the Catholic church despite the points I disagree on, or should I just join the Episcopal church despite the lack of direction and history?


CAN I even join the Catholic church with those views? How do the above mentioned liberal Catholics deal with their disagreements with the Church?


Thanks so much, guys.

 

[benedictaoo]

We are for equal rights for homosexual too, we just aren't for gay marriage because its just not possible under God's law. But if these are your views, you're better going with the Episcopal church.

 

[Michie]

You should really join a Church that aligns more with your views. If you have no intention of practicing or being obedient to Catholicism even if you disagree, there really is no point. Joining the RCC means agreeing to what the Church practices and following it. You can discuss these issues with a priest or in RCIA. There are lots of Catholics that may disagree with one point or another but they are still obligated to obedience when you join the Church. Many that are born into the faith may or may not realize this but that is what is required to be a Catholic in good standing. Nothing wrong in not understanding or even disagreeing but if you openly dissent and are disobedient then that is a problem. You can hit a few RCIA classes under no obligation and talk about your concerns.

 

[benedictaoo]

Well, really and truly we should search out the true Church and conform to it, not have it conform to us but with this new and "improved" forum... Im not waisting my breath. No, lol, we should not find the Church that suits us. We shoule find the truth and be renewd in truth. No offense but that's horrible advice but I get being on this forum its the going advice.

 

[GoingByzantine]

QWERTY, as long as you agree with the church on matters of faith, I see no reason why you shouldn't join. Do you agree with what the church teaches about Christ, salvation, the sacraments etc.?

 

[benedictaoo]

Ah we are to assent to both faith and morals. Not just faith. This is unCatholic advice.

 

[Michie]

What should someone say? Either you enter with a sincere heart or you don't. I referred the OP to a priest and RCIA do discuss. Not much else I can do from here but be honest. I've seen priests say as much to inquirers. You cannot argue someone into the Church.

Well, really and truly we should search out the true Church and conform to it, not have it conform to us but with this new and "improved" forum... Im not waisting my breath. No, lol, we should not find the Church that suits us. We shoule find the truth and be renewd in truth. No offense but that's horrible advice but I get being on this forum its the going advice.

 

[Michie]

Read what I posted again. And what I bolded.

You should really join a Church that aligns more with your views. If you have no intention of practicing or being obedient to Catholicism even if you disagree, there really is no point. Joining the RCC means agreeing to what the Church practices and following it. You can discuss these issues with a priest or in RCIA. There are lots of Catholics that may disagree with one point or another but they are still obligated to obedience when you join the Church. Many that are born into the faith may or may not realize this but that is what is required to be a Catholic in good standing. Nothing wrong in not understanding or even disagreeing but if you openly dissent and are disobedient then that is a problem. You can hit a few RCIA classes under no obligation and talk about your concerns.

I'm getting tired of having my Catholicism questioned.

 

[benedictaoo]

Like I said, I'm not wasting my time. Getting into the same old argument. Just go with Episcopals. What he's looking for can not be found in Catholicism.

 

[benedictaoo]

Read what I posted again. And what I bolded.



I'm getting tired of having my Catholicism questioned.

Didn't question it, just sad said it was bad advice to advise anyone to look for a Church that agrees with them.

 

[Michie]

Priests have said the same to inquirers who cannot conform to Church teaching in matters where they disagree.

 

[benedictaoo]

Uh huh. That's not what I commented on. Just that we should seek out what's true and bend to that. Not find something that agrees with us and call that truth. Truth is objective, not subject to us. Is all I said.

 

[Michie]

You said it was bad advise. But given that God gave us freewill you have to advise accordingly. I was completely honest. As Fr. Mike said, he'd rather see people go to a Christian Church imperfectly united with the RCC but united. Maybe they will make their way home in the future.

Uh huh. That's not what I commented on. Just that we should seek out what's true and bend to that. Not find something that agrees with us and call that truth. Truth is objective, not subject to us. Is all I said.

 

[benedictaoo]

You said it was bad advise. But given that God gave us freewill you have to advise accordingly. I was completely honest. As Fr. Mike said, he'd rather see people go to a Christian Church imperfectly united with the RCC but united. Maybe they will make their way home in the future.

NoooNooooo. I said telling someone to pick a church that agrees with them is bad advice. And it is. And I said why. Not repeating again.

 

[Michie]

Ok.

NoooNooooo. I said telling someone to pick a church that agrees with them is bad advice. And it is. And I said why. Not repeating again.

 

[QWERTY]

See, that's the reason why I am skeptical of the Episcopal Church: it lines up too well with what I already believe.

That's why I haven't completely counted the Catholic Church out, despite the couple issues I disagree on. While I don't necessarily think that I'm wrong on all of those issues and the RCC is right on them, I definitely am not vain enough to believe I know everything and my views HAVE to be the correct ones.

With that said, I also don't believe that just because the Catholic Church says something is a certain way, it has to be a certain way. While I can understand and get behind the idea that the current RCC grew out of the original Church on Earth that Jesus founded, I can't get behind the idea that every single teaching it has is correct simply because the men who came to that assessment happen to be part of the Catholic Church.

Nothing human is perfect, and nothing perfect is human.

Regardless of the above, GoingByzantine, your response best represents how I was feeling about before posting; If I believe in Christ as my savior and I'm completely in line with the RCC on the most important doctrinal Christian theologies, I don't really see a reason why I can't be Catholic and still maintain my personal opinions. Is there a reason I couldn't that someone could tell me? And if there is, does that mean that liberal Catholics like Joe Biden are really not true Catholics?


Thanks for all help/advice/opinions, guys.

 

[QWERTY]

You should really join a Church that aligns more with your views. If you have no intention of practicing or being obedient to Catholicism even if you disagree, there really is no point. Joining the RCC means agreeing to what the Church practices and following it. You can discuss these issues with a priest or in RCIA. There are lots of Catholics that may disagree with one point or another but they are still obligated to obedience when you join the Church. Many that are born into the faith may or may not realize this but that is what is required to be a Catholic in good standing. Nothing wrong in not understanding or even disagreeing but if you openly dissent and are disobedient then that is a problem. You can hit a few RCIA classes under no obligation and talk about your concerns.

So Michie, in your opinion I can personally disagree so long as I don't openly dissent? So I could become Catholic, regardless of whether I agree on the mentioned issues or not, as long as I don't preach against them?

 

[football5680]

If your own personal beliefs are going to overrule the will of God then it is irrelevant. If you accept that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus created then it is pretty much your only option since this is the only Church he promised to protect. If the Church teaches something authoritatively then it should be accepted by the faithful.

I definitely am not vain enough to believe I know everything and my views HAVE to be the correct ones.

This would be the correct attitude to have. You may not understand the wisdom of the Church immediately but if you give it time and do more research then you may eventually accept it.

 

[Erose]

See, that's the reason why I am skeptical of the Episcopal Church: it lines up too well with what I already believe.

That's why I haven't completely counted the Catholic Church out, despite the couple issues I disagree on. While I don't necessarily think that I'm wrong on all of those issues and the RCC is right on them, I definitely am not vain enough to believe I know everything and my views HAVE to be the correct ones.

With that said, I also don't believe that just because the Catholic Church says something is a certain way, it has to be a certain way. While I can understand and get behind the idea that the current RCC grew out of the original Church on Earth that Jesus founded, I can't get behind the idea that every single teaching it has is correct simply because the men who came to that assessment happen to be part of the Catholic Church.

Nothing human is perfect, and nothing perfect is human.

Regardless of the above, GoingByzantine, your response best represents how I was feeling about before posting; If I believe in Christ as my savior and I'm completely in line with the RCC on the most important doctrinal Christian theologies, I don't really see a reason why I can't be Catholic and still maintain my personal opinions. Is there a reason I couldn't that someone could tell me? And if there is, does that mean that liberal Catholics like Joe Biden are really not true Catholics?


Thanks for all help/advice/opinions, guys.

The key point that you need to ask yourself, are you opened to the possibility that you are wrong. Obedience to Christ is very important to being a Christian. As Scripture says: He who rejects you, rejects Me...

The Catholic Church in matters of faith and morals is infallible. This is something you will have to come to grasp with, if you are considering the Church. This doesn't mean that you have to agree completely lock stock and barrel with what is required; but you need to be opened to it, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to all truth.

I would recommend doing some research on why the Church teaches what it teaches in these matters. That is the great thing about our faith, it is intelligible and understandable.

 

[Michie]

Well yes. I struggled with some issues as well. But you can't practice birth control even if you disagree with that teaching. That's the thing, you may disagree, struggle, or do not understand a teaching the Church has but you must be obedient to it in your personal life and not give a witness to others that goes against what the Church teaches. When you enter the Church you have to take a vow that basically says you believe and assent to what the church believes and teaches. In other words, even though you do not understand or even disagree... you believe what the Church says about herself that all her teachings are protected by the Holy Spirit and she cannot err in that area. It is a leap of faith of sorts where you allow the Church to guide you in those areas you have difficulty with. I'm a convert and it can be tough for sure.

So Michie, in your opinion I can personally disagree so long as I don't openly dissent? So I could become Catholic, regardless of whether I agree on the mentioned issues or not, as long as I don't preach against them?