No, You Reallly Are Not "Pro-Choice"

Archivist

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No, a fetus is a life, as much as a born person is a life.

No embryologist would tell you different, so when it is aborted, you're very much killing a baby.

I din't say a fetus wasn't a life. Please don't make false accusations.

I gotta say, it's quite scary how casual you'd throw away a babies life.

Where did I say that I would throw away a babies life. I never said any such thing. I simply said that where the lives of the pregnant woman and the fetus are both a risk, the choice as to who gets saved has to remain with the pregnant woman, not with a third party.
 
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SPF

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Because she is a life in being. The fetus is a potential life in being. Her decision trumps.
This is what brings us back to square one. You're begging the question in that you're assuming the intrinsic and inherent moral worth of the human being located outside the womb is greater than the human being inside the womb. You have not established this as true, therefore your conclusion is begging the question.
 
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Archivist

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This is what brings us back to square one. You're begging the question in that you're assuming the intrinsic and inherent moral worth of the human being located outside the womb is greater than the human being inside the womb. You have not established this as true, therefore your conclusion is begging the question.

As I already stated, the pregnant woman is a life in being. The fetus is not.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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With all due respect, it's not that simple.

I don't believe that a woman forfeits her rights by choosing to carry a child to term. I find it morally repugnant that women can be and have been forced to have C-sections against their will because their own preferences are no longer factored into the equation. I'm against "ripping fetuses limb from limb," but I'm equally against taking a woman into custody, strapping her legs together, dragging her to the hospital, and cutting her open, as happened to Laura Pemberton in 1999. She later sued for civil rights violations and was told fetal rights outweighed hers.

Regardless of whether or not a woman should have a right to an abortion, she should not lose the rights that everyone is entitled to by becoming pregnant. In countries where abortion is illegal, this all too often turns into women losing their own lives or freedom. Savita Halappanavar died in Ireland in 2012 after being denied an abortion when miscarriage was inevitable. In 2016, a pregnant woman in El Salvador was denied cancer treatment because the country's abortion law doesn't permit it. She also died. Likewise in El Salvador, women have had miscarriages and been sentenced to 30 years of prison because they were suspected of having had abortions. This is a thing that happens.

I'm morally opposed to abortion. I'm also morally opposed to a pro-life movement that doesn't address the systemic causes behind many abortions, i.e., poverty and opportunity costs. Champion affordable prenatal care, daycare, healthcare, and whatever other social programs would remove the onus from vulnerable women and families. Support the sort of sex education programs that would prevent plenty of this situations from arising in the first place. Speak out when the lives and rights of pregnant women, regardless of whether or not they want to abort, are devalued and discarded. Then we'll talk.

Until then, yeah, I actually really am pro-choice.

You are pro baby-killing. That's what you defend. Let's not pretend it's something other than that. There is no allowance in this situation for, "I am morally opposed to abortion, *but*". That, "but" means a dead child.
 
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Archivist

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You are pro baby-killing. Baby Killing. That's what you defend. Let's not pretend it's something other than that. There is no allowance for, "I am morally opposed to abortion, *but*".
Pro-baby killing would mean that one is in favor of killing babies. I haven't seen anyone here espouse such an opinion.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Pro-baby killing would mean that one is in favor of killing babies. I haven't seen anyone here espouse such an opinion.

Yes. I understand. Aborting a child is no different than getting a pedicure, right.
 
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Archivist

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Yes. I understand. Aborting a child is no different than getting a pedicure, right.
Never said that. Apparently you don't want to engage on reasonable discussion.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Never said that. Apparently you don't want to engage on reasonable discussion.

My ability to be calm and cool flies out of the window when people - Christian people - defend and/or promote killing the unborn.
 
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Archivist

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My ability to be calm and cool flies out of the window when people - Christian people - defend and/or promote killing the unborn, as in the thread I resound to.
No one in this thread has been promoting the killing of anyone.
 
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Wolfe

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No one in this thread has been promoting the killing of anyone.
Not directly, anyway.

You equate a human life, as less than another human life.
You are actively advocating that an unborn child, is worth less than the woman.
That's sick.
 
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Archivist

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Not directly, anyway.

You equate a human life, as less than another human life.
You are actively advocating that an unborn child, is worth less than the woman.
That's sick.
Sick? So sad that some in this thread cannot engage on polite conversation.

So when both the fetus and the pregnant woman are at risk, who should make the call as to who lives? Why should it not be the pregnant woman?
 
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SPF

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As I already stated, the pregnant woman is a life in being. The fetus is not.
You have stated that. What you haven't done is made a positive argument for why a human life located outside the womb possesses more inherent value than a human life located inside a womb.

You're begging the question.

Please provide an actual argument, a simple syllogism would suffice as to why a human located inside a womb does not possess the same inherent moral worth as a human located outside the womb
 
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Archivist

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You have stated that. What you haven't done is made a positive argument for why a human life located outside the womb possesses more inherent value than a human life located inside a womb.

You're begging the question.

Please provide an actual argument, a simple syllogism would suffice as to why a human located inside a womb does not possess the same inherent moral worth as a human located outside the womb
Already answered. A life in being vs. a potential life in being. If you don't like my answer that is your problem.

You still haven't explained why a pregnant woman should not be allowed to determine whether she should live or die.
 
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Jenny_8675309

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You have stated that. What you haven't done is made a positive argument for why a human life located outside the womb possesses more inherent value than a human life located inside a womb.

You're begging the question.

Please provide an actual argument, a simple syllogism would suffice as to why a human located inside a womb does not possess the same inherent moral worth as a human located outside the womb
It' not a matter of "inherent value" it's a matter of self sustainability.
 
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SPF

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Already answered. A life in being vs. a potential life in being. If you don't like my answer that is your problem.
Can you please explain WHY a life located outside the womb (in being) possesses more intrinsic moral value compared to a life located inside the womb (potential life in being)? At this point all you've done is make an assertion. You have yet to actually explain why it's true.

It' not a matter of "inherent value" it's a matter of self sustainability.
Can you please explain what you mean? I'm pretty sure my children were not able to "self sustain" even after they were born. I don't know what you're trying to say.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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It' not a matter of "inherent value" it's a matter of self sustainability.

Have you met many 3-month-olds who are self-sustainable?

Would you be Okay with killing anyone who isn't "self-sustainable"?
 
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