No sexual chemistry

[AndyKC]

This is unfair.
He clearly says that he has tried everything that she has asked.

Spousal neglect is grounds for divorce, and one that is accepted in many Christian circles because of the clear direction in the Bible that we should meet each others needs.

Have you tried massage?

I have also heard that as well. But, I won't leave. I will find a way to make the best of it. However, I am worried that she might eventually leave if we don't figure this out. I think she feels like she has ruined my life by not being honest with how she felt from the start and now that we have a family we are kind of stuck. But once the kids are out of the house, I am worried the reason to stay might no longer be there in her eyes. I think she is projecting on me though and feels like her life is ruined or at least not what she feels like it should be.

I know the versus you speak of and I have read them often and prayed about it wondering what God would think about her refusing me. But then I think....what if she were in an accident or me and we couldn't be together in that way...would I leave? No. I guess this is maybe harder because it seems like a choice she is making, not something she has no control over. It feels like she is doing this on purpose rather but it is probably me trying to justify it.

 

[AndyKC]

Thank you for the response to my questions. I think we may have hit upon a clue.

When we counsel couples, we often arrive at a similar place. I think there's a song ... "We've lost that loving feeling ...." After a few years, the original flame starts to fade, life gets in the way and couples lose that loving feeling. When counseling in person, it's easier to make specific recommendations but we've helped a number of couples re-kindle the flame.

If you've forgotten your wife's love language(s), you're not kindling the flame. No wonder there's no spark.

She probably has a few things to work on too but you're here and she isn't.

Maybe you are right. I'll try to do more of her love language (I haven't forgot what hers were, just forgot what they were called in the book) and see how if that helps bring us closer together. It sure can't hurt.

 

[AndyKC]

This is unfair.
He clearly says that he has tried everything that she has asked.

Spousal neglect is grounds for divorce, and one that is accepted in many Christian circles because of the clear direction in the Bible that we should meet each others needs.

Have you tried massage?

Oh, and I have tried massage and she LOVES that...at least 3 nights a week she falls asleep with me that way. I like doing that for her and it is one of the ways we have found to gain some intimacy without sex. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Mudinyeri]

I have changed the way I look the way I dress, my job, my fitness, my car, my teeth, etc, etc,...all in hopes after each change that maybe NOW she would find me attractive.

Perhaps another clue. (I'm fumbling in the dark a bit having not met the two of you.) Perhaps she is attracted to men who know who they are and, although willing to admit that they have flaws, are comfortable with who they are - men who feel no need to make superficial changes at a woman's whim.

 

[johndoo]

Oh, and I have tried massage and she LOVES that...at least 3 nights a week she falls asleep with me that way. I like doing that for her and it is one of the ways we have found to gain some intimacy without sex. Thanks for the suggestion.

I meant for you, to get your need for physical touch.

 

[toLiJC]

it would be more or less understandable that she not want to have genital sex, but did/does she at least love, caress, hug, embrace, comfort, etc. you?!

Blessings

 

[Dave-W]

Maybe you are right. I'll try to do more of her love language (I haven't forgot what hers were, just forgot what they were called in the book) and see how if that helps bring us closer together. It sure can't hurt.

At least she has a love language and you know hers. My wife and I went thru that book and took the tests at the end - and DW said she did not have a language at all. In the footnotes it says that happens sometimes.

 

[Mudinyeri]

At least she has a love language and you know hers. My wife and I went thru that book and took the tests at the end - and DW said she did not have a language at all. In the footnotes it says that happens sometimes.

I'm much the same way. It's not uncommon among survivors of abuse. We've learned to survive without love. That doesn't give us an excuse to emotionally or physicially abandon our spouses. I work hard every single day to "speak" to my wife in her love languages (She is very high in four of the five languages).

 

[AndyKC]

Perhaps another clue. (I'm fumbling in the dark a bit having not met the two of you.) Perhaps she is attracted to men who know who they are and, although willing to admit that they have flaws, are comfortable with who they are - men who feel no need to make superficial changes at a woman's whim.

She has mentioned she likes confident alpha male type men - blue collar, tattoos, motorcycles, muscles, testosterone. Men she can count on to get the job done without having to ask, etc. Every time I work on something, she says "why don't you call <insert manly mans name> to help you out with that?" I am no wimp and I can't think of the last thing I attempted that didn't get done well, but at the same time, I am not these men either. Funny thing is, she buys me stuff like cardigan sweaters and keds type shoes....the complete opposite of what she claims she likes. She is very much a controlling person but maybe she does that because I am not who she is normally attracted to or something and she wants to change me into that person.

I think I will just start doing whatever I want to do and asking for forgiveness after the fact rather than permission before. One time she did say she doesn't respect me because no man would put up with the way she treats me. Same with finding her attractive...she is never satisfied with the way she looks and the fact that I am attracted to her makes her think there is something wrong with me. What is the saying,..."I would never join a country club that would have me as a member" ? That is kind of her thinking...she could never respect someone who likes her.

 

[AndyKC]

it would be more or less understandable that she not want to have genital sex, but did/does she at least love, caress, hug, embrace, comfort, etc. you?!

Blessings

She does provide all of those things...anything that can't be mistaken as sexual or leading to sex is ok. She will not kiss other than a peck on the lips, but she claims to love kissing and "misses it". So, I can get some comfort from those things. They are a step above the love you have for a friend or for a family member, but not that of a lover or spouse in my mind.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Funny thing is, she buys me stuff like cardigan sweaters and keds type shoes....the complete opposite of what she claims she likes. She is very much a controlling person but maybe she does that because I am not who she is normally attracted to or something and she wants to change me into that person.

I think I will just start doing whatever I want to do and asking for forgiveness after the fact rather than permission before. One time she did say she doesn't respect me because no man would put up with the way she treats me. Same with finding her attractive...she is never satisfied with the way she looks and the fact that I am attracted to her makes her think there is something wrong with me. What is the saying,..."I would never join a country club that would have me as a member" ? That is kind of her thinking...she could never respect someone who likes her.

My guess ... she sees you as Mr. Rogers in Keds and cardigans.

Confidence. It's a "lady killer." Women are almost universally attracted to highly confident men. You've been willing to be a door mat. A woman might like that for a little bit until a highly confident guy walks into her life.

A tip: Don't try to go to full-on "Mr. Confidence" over night. She will smell a rat. Make changes little by little.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is unfair.
He clearly says that he has tried everything that she has asked.

No matter. One can only change them self, not others.

 

[toLiJC]

She does provide all of those things...anything that can't be mistaken as sexual or leading to sex is ok. She will not kiss other than a peck on the lips, but she claims to love kissing and "misses it". So, I can get some comfort from those things. They are a step above the love you have for a friend or for a family member, but not that of a lover or spouse in my mind.

maybe (for some reason) she is not lovable and amorous enough, or she is afraid of more intimacy with you, for example she is likely to strive for holy conduct/way of life and therefore abstains from sex thinking it is unholy for her and you, and therefore maybe she thinks if she is more intimate with you, then it is possible that you make her have genital sex (with you) and so on; however, i think, at least in my opinion, wife should at least compromise by being more lovable and amorous toward her husband in such a case as yours, but God knows better

Blessings

 

[Brianlear]

Lot going on here. The part about her trying to change you, focus on looks, cars, buying you lame shoes and clothes, not being open with you, controlling behavior, planning out weekends months in advance, is all very concerning. She's obviously got some pathology and I think you've played into it, and unwittingly become a victim. Some of her behavior is just inexcusably disrespectful. Take all the lame shoes and clothes to the goodwill (tell her you are doing it). Next time she says something disrespectful like you can't do a project, call her on it.

To you it may sound extreme, but as the man you need to take control of this situation. She may need some tough love for a while. IF she says anything even remotely deprecating to you, or herself, call her on it instantly. Have a zero tolerance policy starting now.

What would really be good is if you could find a buddy, go on a vacation to Mexico or Europe for a month. Tell her that you are going to use the time to have fun, and meet new people. Tell her that in light of her disrespectful behavior, you are considering whether you still want to be married to her. Tell her that you will not cheat on her, but you are considering divorce due to spousal neglect.

I'd bet $1000 that within 2-3 days of the above strategies, she will magically become much more attracted to you.

 

[live4Christ2016]

I think your wife has control issues and lives in a fantasy world. She's not happy when things look greener on the other side of the fence. I find her remarks to you totally offensive and hurtful. I'm sorry she says the things she says to you.
Why the heck did she marry you then?
I will be blunt...if I wasn't a Christian and on a Christian board I'd probably have a few choice words for her that are not nice. I think she's also completely selfish. You are her husband and she needs to love you through thick and thin. To not find you attractive is appalling. To say to you that she finds you repulsive is the most hurtful comment any wife could tell her husband. I'm so sad for you.
When I say fantasy world...she's talking about you surprising her with trips and stuff...getting tattoos....motorcycles.....a man that gets things done....she's got her mind in a fantasy zone. She needs to step back in reality and notice her husband standing in front of her.
She is neglecting you of love you deserve.
I read your post and I know exactly how you feel, but even though my husband and I don't have sex. He shows me he loves me in many other ways. I say to myself...it could be worse.
I've been frustrated too.
I just don't know what you should do. I'm sorry.
Can I ask when the last time you both had really good sex? Where it was passionate and you both were in sync?
I still feel that she is being very selfish when she doesn't touch you because she doesn't want to lead you on or doesn't want to give you the wrong idea. What? To lead someone on or give someone the wrong idea is when they are dating...not when they are married.
I also thought everyone masturbated.....so I felt that she was fibbing saying she didn't touch herself.....am I wrong?
May God give you peace. I truly don't believe from what I read that it has anything to do with you....but her unhappiness for everything she doesn't currently have. She needs to stop and be grateful for her beautiful husband and family who all love her.
Is it bad that I want to tell you to tell her to stop being selfish or get out? Obviously it's not what you should say, but maybe you need to remind her of what she does have and what she will lose of she goes elsewhere.

 

[live4Christ2016]

I love Brianlear's post!!! He is right on the money. I bet if the lame clothes and shoes get tossed...and you start not putting up with her nonsense she might do a 180 on you. Haha. Seriously... Put her in her place. She has already made the comment that she likes men who wouldn't put up with her garbage. She's like a child who needs disciplined......it's also called setting boundaries. You need to start setting some boundaries and not allowing her to treat you with such disrespect.
I also think telling her you are going somewhere with some friends would show her two can play her stupid game.

 

[AndyKC]

Lot going on here. The part about her trying to change you, focus on looks, cars, buying you lame shoes and clothes, not being open with you, controlling behavior, planning out weekends months in advance, is all very concerning. She's obviously got some pathology and I think you've played into it, and unwittingly become a victim. Some of her behavior is just inexcusably disrespectful. Take all the lame shoes and clothes to the goodwill (tell her you are doing it). Next time she says something disrespectful like you can't do a project, call her on it.

To you it may sound extreme, but as the man you need to take control of this situation. She may need some tough love for a while. IF she says anything even remotely deprecating to you, or herself, call her on it instantly. Have a zero tolerance policy starting now.

What would really be good is if you could find a buddy, go on a vacation to Mexico or Europe for a month. Tell her that you are going to use the time to have fun, and meet new people. Tell her that in light of her disrespectful behavior, you are considering whether you still want to be married to her. Tell her that you will not cheat on her, but you are considering divorce due to spousal neglect.

I'd bet $1000 that within 2-3 days of the above strategies, she will magically become much more attracted to you.

----
Thank you, i needed to hear someone else say what I have been thinking all along. You have some good advice and the funny thing is, I know of no other man that would take this from her and the fact that they wouldn't take it would make her instantly attracted to them. But for me to do it, she would just kind of laugh it off cause she knows she has me and wouldn't believe I was serious. And, I have to be willing to follow through on things or it has no power. If I threaten to walk away, I have to be willing to actually do it. Maybe she knows this is how I feel inside and knows that I don't want to leave the boys and hurt them so I suffer so they don't have to know the hurt of divorce.

I do think you are right, she has issues...in fact, she will tell you that herself. In her birthday or anniversary cards to me she will say things like she knows she doesn't deserve me and that she is hard to deal with and all of that. She acknowledges the fact that she is a taker and I am a giver. Kind of sick really. But, in hopes to keep the family together and be a good Christian man and never leave my wife, I have dealt with it all these years until it has just become the norm. There are moments we have glimpses of what could be but she quickly shuts those down. It feels like I have been walking in a desert for years and she finally sees me and acknowledges me and says "oh, you poor thing, you must be really thirsty. I should give you some of my cold glass of ice water...but I don't want to. Here, you can lick the sweat off the side of the glass."

I guess at this point I have to make a choice..do I continue to put up with a non passionate non intimate relationship forever (more likely until she gets tired of it) or do I stand up and be a man and call her out and force the issue to come to a crossroad. I love my children, and when I think about us divorcing and how it would impact them and what they would feel inside it tears me apart. I think about sitting them down and how their hearts would break and how they would look at me and this world in a different way. Sure I know they would eventually adjust and things would be ok for them but I am not sure I could live with that, knowing I could have just suffered so they could live. Does that make sense? I know if I do finally stop taking the neglect it will come to a heated discussion and divorce will be threatened and I have to be ready for that possibility. I'm almost there though. I have prayed for years and I sometimes feel like God just ignores me. I don't know why. I am not sure what that means or what I should do. Jesus suffered ultimately for all of us...it seems petty to give up because my wife doesn't find me sexually attractive. And, if I go and find that love and passion with another woman, won't I feel like I traded my family for it? Has anyone else made that choice and regretted it? What would God think of me? Maybe in the end I have nothing to lose by at least being a man and calling her out and demanding respect and to be treated like a loving husband should be treated. At worst she will leave and at best she will come around. I don't think God expects a wife to be like this to her husband. Thank you again for your words today. I needed to hear them. God bless!

 

[Mudinyeri]

But for me to do it, she would just kind of laugh it off cause she knows she has me and wouldn't believe I was serious. And, I have to be willing to follow through on things or it has no power.

I think I might have mentioned it in one of my posts - start with things that you're willing to do if she calls your bluff. Start small and build.

 

[AndyKC]

I think your wife has control issues and lives in a fantasy world. She's not happy when things look greener on the other side of the fence. I find her remarks to you totally offensive and hurtful. I'm sorry she says the things she says to you.
Why the heck did she marry you then?
I will be blunt...if I wasn't a Christian and on a Christian board I'd probably have a few choice words for her that are not nice. I think she's also completely selfish. You are her husband and she needs to love you through thick and thin. To not find you attractive is appalling. To say to you that she finds you repulsive is the most hurtful comment any wife could tell her husband. I'm so sad for you.
When I say fantasy world...she's talking about you surprising her with trips and stuff...getting tattoos....motorcycles.....a man that gets things done....she's got her mind in a fantasy zone. She needs to step back in reality and notice her husband standing in front of her.
She is neglecting you of love you deserve.
I read your post and I know exactly how you feel, but even though my husband and I don't have sex. He shows me he loves me in many other ways. I say to myself...it could be worse.
I've been frustrated too.
I just don't know what you should do. I'm sorry.
Can I ask when the last time you both had really good sex? Where it was passionate and you both were in sync?
I still feel that she is being very selfish when she doesn't touch you because she doesn't want to lead you on or doesn't want to give you the wrong idea. What? To lead someone on or give someone the wrong idea is when they are dating...not when they are married.
I also thought everyone masturbated.....so I felt that she was fibbing saying she didn't touch herself.....am I wrong?
May God give you peace. I truly don't believe from what I read that it has anything to do with you....but her unhappiness for everything she doesn't currently have. She needs to stop and be grateful for her beautiful husband and family who all love her.
Is it bad that I want to tell you to tell her to stop being selfish or get out? Obviously it's not what you should say, but maybe you need to remind her of what she does have and what she will lose of she goes elsewhere.

----
Wow, coming from a female that is powerful. I am sorry you are struggling in your marriage with some of the same things and I appreciate your kind words of support.

I think she married me because she took a good hard look at her life and the men she was dating and saw that it was quickly taking her down a very bad path. She saw me and I was all of the things on paper that she felt like she wanted or that were the opposite of the men she normally dated, so I must be what she needs. She says she knows I am attractive, just not to her. She asked me once if I knew any women I thought were attractive but that I just wouldn't want to have sex with. I have a hard time with that because if I think they are attractive I probably would have sex with them...that is kind of what attraction is to some extent. I don't know, kind of a strange question I thought. Anyhow, she thought those feelings of attraction would come eventually and they just never really did. She never told me this until years into our marriage after we already had children together and it was a little too late to do anything about it. For what its worth, she was not a Christian when we met and has since accepted Jesus and for that I am thankful. Maybe THAT was the reason for us to come together. But nonetheless, she doesn't really walk the walk. She writes or says Luv Ya! But struggles to say I Love You. Boy, when I write these things down they are huge glaring red flags to me that I can't believe I have just brushed under the rug for so long. Seems obvious when I hear the words come out of my mouth. The neglect and lack of respect is very hurtful.

So the last time we had great sex (or so it seemed great to me) was about 6 months ago..and over the past couple of years about 3 times that I really felt like she was totally into it and it showed me how good it could really be if she would just let go and enjoy the moment. However, through conversations I have had with her since then she told me that she was just trying to 'fake it until she makes it'. Like if she acted like she loved it and was totally into it, that maybe her mind would come around and she would actually learn to love it. Talk about hurtful to find that out. Over the years we basically have very boring sex where she lays there and kind of checks out until it's over just to try and pacify me until the next time. And we have averaged less than once a month over our marriage and then only because she felt a duty to do it. We have gone an entire year without it on 4 separate occasions. Does she touch? Who knows. She claims she doesn't but I would really have no way to prove one way or another. I find it hard to believe too.

It is sad to me that she isn't more appreciative and thankful for me and what she has. It is that sin of envy that she doesn't recognize. I truly believe that if I left she would quickly realize that (don't know what you've got until it's gone kind of thing) and then her eyes would be opened. But by then, it would be too late. I have a feeling that she would cycle through many different men in search of whatever she thinks is missing and I dread that for the boys.

I will start paying more attention to the words and actions I use with her...not in a mean way but in a way that requires her to treat me with the respect a wife should show to her husband. At least in this way I will be true to myself.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I will start paying more attention to the words and actions I use with her...not in a mean way but in a way that requires her to treat me with the respect a wife should show to her husband. At least in this way I will be true to myself.

Respect that is "demanded" is never respect...that has to be EARNED...and what have you done to not earn respect from your wife?