no evidence for evolution

[RickG]

But I thought individuals didn't evolve -- populations do?

That is correct. You just earned a gold star.

Or is a single cell considered a "population"?

Nope

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you think your God used microevolution?

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope

So after abiogenesis kick-started life, and the first cell became two, then four, then etc., evolution was still a process down the road?

 

[RickG]

So after abiogenesis kick-started life, and the first cell became two, then four, then etc., evolution was still a process down the road?

Environment had a lot to do with it. That is the oxygenation of the atmosphere and oceans.

 

[AV1611VET]

Environment had a lot to do with it. That is the oxygenation of the atmosphere and oceans.

How does this even remotely answer my YES-or-NO question?

 

[lesliedellow]

I agree, if a thread asks a question that can still be explored why not bring it back?

Um, because a creationist trying to tell us there is no evidence for evolution is not exactly new or original. More like a gramophone record got stuck.

 

[AV1611VET]

Um, because a creationist trying to tell us there is no evidence for evolution is not exactly new or original. More like a gramophone record got stuck.

Kinda like an evolutionist demanding evidence for the creation events, isn't it?

 

[RickG]

How does this even remotely answer my YES-or-NO question?

Yes, eventually some single celled animals begin to produce mulitcelled animals. The earliest mulitcelled animals are thought to be some 1.6 Ga, but that is currently disputed among paleobiologists.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, eventually some single celled animals begin to produce mulitcelled animals. The earliest mulitcelled animals are thought to be some 1.6 Ga, but that is currently disputed among paleobiologists.

Well I guess it's Twenty Questions Time.

Let's try my question from another angle.

Was there a passage of time from when abiogenesis occured, and evolution started?

 

[RickG]

Well I guess it's Twenty Questions Time.

Let's try my question from another angle.

Was there a passage of time from when abiogenesis occured, and evolution started?

I'm not a biologist, so I will only be able to provided educated opinion. It is my understanding that all organisms mutate
with each generation. Therefore, evolution began from the get-go. However, understanding that you only wish to have a word answer. So, to the question, "Was there a passage of time from when abiogenesis occurred, and evolution started"? NO.

 

[Robert Palase]

Um, because a creationist trying to tell us there is no evidence for evolution is not exactly new or original. More like a gramophone record got stuck.

But that's creationism in a nutshell, what else is new? pick a subject and creationists will either deny it or reject it, it's what they do no matter how new or old the thread is.

 

[AV1611VET]

pick a subject and creationists will either deny it or reject it,

I'll tell you what, you pick a subject and I'll either deny it or reject it.

Then I'll pick one and see if you do the same.

Care to take me up on that?

 

[RickG]

I'll tell you what, you pick a subject and I'll either deny it or reject it.

Then I'll pick one and see if you do the same.

Care to take me up on that?

Sure. Keep in mind that in a science forum it must be science.

 

[Loudmouth]

Well I guess it's Twenty Questions Time.

Let's try my question from another angle.

Was there a passage of time from when abiogenesis occured, and evolution started?

Evolution started when there were organisms that reproduced imperfectly and competed for resources. Whether those first organisms got here by abiogenesis or divine fiat, it matters not.

 

[AV1611VET]

Evolution started when there were organisms that reproduced imperfectly and competed for resources. Whether those first organisms got here by abiogenesis or divine fiat, it matters not.

So when cells began to multiply ... first one, then two, then four ... was that considered evolution?

How much time transpired between abiogenesis and the start of evolution?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So when cells began to multiply ... first one, then two, then three ... was that considered evolution?

How much time transpired between abiogenesis and the start of evolution?

Evolution would not actually begin until the cells were competing with each other for resources. There would be variation almost from the beginning. But as you have probably been told many times when people try to refute evolution by focusing on variation only and ignoring natural selection: Variation alone is not evolution.

So until local resources were limited there would be no evolution by definition.

And I have no idea how long that would have taken. I could set an upper limit on the date, but I could not set a lower limit.

 

[Loudmouth]

So when cells began to multiply ... first one, then two, then three ... was that considered evolution?

Yes.

How much time transpired between abiogenesis and the start of evolution?

If life came about through abiogenesis, then there was no time gap between them since abiogenesis is defined as the production of organisms capable of evolving. If you are talking about the amount of time between the first interactions of organic molecules and the emergence of life, then you are probably talking about 500 million years or so.

 

[Loudmouth]

Evolution would not actually begin until the cells were competing with each other for resources. There would be variation almost from the beginning. But as you have probably been told many times when people try to refute evolution by focusing on variation only and ignoring natural selection: Variation alone is not evolution.

So until local resources were limited there would be no evolution by definition.

In geologic terms, competition would have been almost immediate. Even bacteria on an agar plate start competing with each other for resources before the colony is visible to the naked eye which is often less than 12 hours. Of course, the first life would probably not have a 20 minute generation time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In geologic terms, competition would have been almost immediate. Even bacteria on an agar plate start competing with each other for resources before the colony is visible to the naked eye which is often less than 12 hours. Of course, the first life would probably not have a 20 minute generation time.

I agree, even if it was as long as one million years, and I have severe doubts that it would be that high, that is a mere blink of the eye when we are talking of an event at least 3 billion years ago. In geology the further back one goes the fainter the record is. First life would have left no record at all until longer after it was established and competing.

 

[AV1611VET]

And I have no idea how long that would have taken.

But there is a gap of time between abiogenesis and evolution, no?