AlexB23

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This news is slightly old, as three new moons were discovered in 2023, one orbiting Uranus, and two orbiting Neptune. These moons are tiny compared to Earth's moons, but will allow scientists to learn more about how the early solar system formed. @sjastro and @Astrophile might find this stuff interesting, as well as myself, cos space was my favorite subject as a kid and got me into science. Article: New moons of Uranus and Neptune announced


Here is the article's summary, for those who only have a few seconds. Also, to convert kilometers into miles, multiply the km value by 0.62:

The Carnegie Science article published on February 23, 2024, announces the discovery of three new moons in our Solar System: one around Uranus and two around Neptune. The discoveries were made using ground-based telescopes, specifically the Magellan Telescopes at Carnegie Science's Las Campanas Observatory in Chile and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii.

The new Uranian moon, provisionally named S/2023 U1, is likely the smallest of Uranus' moons, with a diameter of only 8 kilometers. It takes approximately 680 days to orbit around Uranus and was first detected on November 4, 2023. The new Neptunian moons, provisionally named S/2021 N1 and S/2002 N5, have diameters of about 14 kilometers and 23 kilometers, respectively. They take almost 27 years and nearly 9 years to orbit Neptune, respectively.

Scott S. Sheppard of Carnegie Science made the initial discovery of S/2023 U1 using Magellan and later confirmed its existence in older images. He also discovered one of the Neptunian moons using the Magellan Telescope, while the other was found with the Subaru telescope in collaboration with David Tholen, Chad Trujillo, and Patryk Sofia Lykawa.

The discovery of these moons required special image processing techniques to reveal their faintness. Follow-up observations at various telescopes were essential for determining their orbits and confirming their existence. Both Neptunian moons required observing time under ultra-pristine conditions at the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope and Gemini Observatory's 8-meter telescope.

The discovery of these new moons brings the total number of known moons for Uranus to 28 and Neptune to 15. They all have distant, eccentric, and inclined orbits, suggesting they were captured by the planets during or shortly after their formation from the ring of dust and debris surrounding the Sun.

The discovery of these new moons, along with previous studies, indicates that there are dynamical orbital groupings of outer moons around Uranus and Neptune. These groupings suggest once larger parent moons have been broken apart by past collisions, leaving the broken fragments behind in similar orbits as the original larger moon.

The discovery likely completes the inventories of Uranus and Neptune's moons down to between 8 and 14 kilometers in size. In comparison, Jupiter is complete to moons of about 2 kilometers, while Saturn is complete to moons of about 3 kilometers in size. These discoveries help astronomers better understand the history of our Solar System and provide new insights into the tumultuous early years of its formation.
 
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Ophiolite

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This is an informative post, yet it has produced no responses (other than this one). Perhaps its too non-controversial.

The increase in detected satellites of the outer planets, as a result of improvements in technology and greater commitment of resources, fascinates me. There is such a contrast between moons like Ganymede, Triton, Titania, or Titan and the chunks of rock that we are now able to detect. Is there a case to formally distinguish between moons that have reached approximate sphericity and the rest? Moons and moonlets? The only downside I can see is that AV would see it as a sub-set of the same conspiracy that demoted Pluto to a dwarf planet. :)
 
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Chesterton

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This is an informative post, yet it has produced no responses (other than this one). Perhaps its too non-controversial.

The increase in detected satellites of the outer planets, as a result of improvements in technology and greater commitment of resources, fascinates me. There is such a contrast between moons like Ganymede, Triton, Titania, or Titan and the chunks of rock that we are now able to detect. Is there a case to formally distinguish between moons that have reached approximate sphericity and the rest? Moons and moonlets? The only downside I can see is that AV would see it as a sub-set of the same conspiracy that demoted Pluto to a dwarf planet. :)
Out of curiosity, could a moon be made of gas?
 
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Ophiolite

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Out of curiosity, could a moon be made of gas?
That's an intriguing question. I'm interested in planetary formation from the standpoint of an armchair amateur, but the proper answer is probably above that paygrade.

The gas planets are thought to form at a stage in the process where the stellar nebula of gas and dust still has a substantial mass. The dust accumulates into clumps, through collision then gravitational attraction, which build up to form planetesimals, which accrete to larger bodies which may go on to become asteroids, moons, or planets. But some become the core of the gas and ice giants that attract the remaining gas within the nebula. These planetary cores are thought to be five or ten time the mass of the Earth.

I find it unlikely that these could then wind up as a moon - they would just be to big - but that may simply be lack of imagination on my part. And I don't think they could accumulate significant gas without being massive to begin that process. On balance, then, highly unlikely, but in a rather large universe I hesitat to say impossible. Fortunately there are others on the forum who likely know the answer.
 
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AV1611VET

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This news is slightly old, as three new moons were discovered in 2023,

"New moons," or "more moons"?

Science doesn't want to admit they'd been wrong for decades, do they?

So they make it look like a few more just came into existence brand new, I take it?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Out of curiosity, could a moon be made of gas?
These moons? No.

A self-gravitating object can be made of gas (for example a star), but it has to be relatively massive. Even the "gas giant" planets actually have cores of rock or ice in addition to lots and lots of gas.

For objects only a few km across, even ones made of rock aren't held together by gravity which is what is needed for a gas planet or moon.
 
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trophy33

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"New moons," or "more moons"?

Science doesn't want to admit they'd been wrong for decades, do they?

So they make it look like a few more just came into existence brand new, I take it?
Science is not a person to want something. Its like saying "Christianity wants xyz" when some detail is done somewhere in some small church.
 
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trophy33

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By "science," I mean that subset of the human race that is made up of a shrewdness of scientists.
What does for example a machine engineer, an ornithologist or a chemist have to do with a choice of wording about these moons?
 
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Chesterton

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AV1611VET

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What does for example a machine engineer, an ornithologist or a chemist have to do with a choice of wording about these moons?

Probably nothing yet.

But consilience will eventually creep in.
 
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"New moons," or "more moons"?

Science doesn't want to admit they'd been wrong for decades, do they?

So they make it look like a few more just came into existence brand new, I take it?

Serious question: if you discover that you have more things, does that not mean that you do in fact have found new things?
 
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sjastro

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Out of curiosity, could a moon be made of gas?
No.
It would have to be in hydrostatic equilibrium where gravity prevents the gas from dispersing into the vacuum of space.
Moons do not have enough mass for gravity to achieve this.
 
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Ophiolite

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Serious question: if you discover that you have more things, does that not mean that you do in fact have found new things?
Context is all important.
An astronomer searching for undiscovered moons of Uranus may declare, "I have found a new moon" and will be understood to have found what he had hoped to fine. A moon previously unknown to us.
In contrast, an astronomer studying (with slightly more powereful telescopes than currently available) a young planetary system in its early stage of formation, might declare "I have found a new moon" and will be understood to have identified a moon that has formed very recently.
This only becomes complicated when people, through ignorance, accident, or intent, equivocate the two contexts.
 
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sjastro

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Serious question: if you discover that you have more things, does that not mean that you do in fact have found new things?
Why do you even bother asking the question when you know you are going to get a nonsensical incoherent response?
 
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Ophiolite

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I live in hope to get a serious answer one day.
A recent archaeological dig in Stratford upon Avon found over three hundred monkey skeletons and a great many typewriters, so it might work out.
 
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AlexB23

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"New moons," or "more moons"?

Science doesn't want to admit they'd been wrong for decades, do they?

So they make it look like a few more just came into existence brand new, I take it?
Bro, not every post has to be a debate. These moons are old, but these are more moons added to the list of moons that we know about in the solar system.
 
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This news is slightly old, as three new moons were discovered in 2023, one orbiting Uranus, and two orbiting Neptune. These moons are tiny compared to Earth's moons, but will allow scientists to learn more about how the early solar system formed. @sjastro and @Astrophile might find this stuff interesting, as well as myself, cos space was my favorite subject as a kid and got me into science. Article: New moons of Uranus and Neptune announced


Here is the article's summary, for those who only have a few seconds. Also, to convert kilometers into miles, multiply the km value by 0.62:

The Carnegie Science article published on February 23, 2024, announces the discovery of three new moons in our Solar System: one around Uranus and two around Neptune. The discoveries were made using ground-based telescopes, specifically the Magellan Telescopes at Carnegie Science's Las Campanas Observatory in Chile and the Subaru telescope in Hawaii.

The new Uranian moon, provisionally named S/2023 U1, is likely the smallest of Uranus' moons, with a diameter of only 8 kilometers. It takes approximately 680 days to orbit around Uranus and was first detected on November 4, 2023. The new Neptunian moons, provisionally named S/2021 N1 and S/2002 N5, have diameters of about 14 kilometers and 23 kilometers, respectively. They take almost 27 years and nearly 9 years to orbit Neptune, respectively.

Scott S. Sheppard of Carnegie Science made the initial discovery of S/2023 U1 using Magellan and later confirmed its existence in older images. He also discovered one of the Neptunian moons using the Magellan Telescope, while the other was found with the Subaru telescope in collaboration with David Tholen, Chad Trujillo, and Patryk Sofia Lykawa.

The discovery of these moons required special image processing techniques to reveal their faintness. Follow-up observations at various telescopes were essential for determining their orbits and confirming their existence. Both Neptunian moons required observing time under ultra-pristine conditions at the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope and Gemini Observatory's 8-meter telescope.

The discovery of these new moons brings the total number of known moons for Uranus to 28 and Neptune to 15. They all have distant, eccentric, and inclined orbits, suggesting they were captured by the planets during or shortly after their formation from the ring of dust and debris surrounding the Sun.

The discovery of these new moons, along with previous studies, indicates that there are dynamical orbital groupings of outer moons around Uranus and Neptune. These groupings suggest once larger parent moons have been broken apart by past collisions, leaving the broken fragments behind in similar orbits as the original larger moon.

The discovery likely completes the inventories of Uranus and Neptune's moons down to between 8 and 14 kilometers in size. In comparison, Jupiter is complete to moons of about 2 kilometers, while Saturn is complete to moons of about 3 kilometers in size. These discoveries help astronomers better understand the history of our Solar System and provide new insights into the tumultuous early years of its formation.
Thank-you. An excellent post and very interesting information.
 
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AlexB23

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Thank-you. An excellent post and very interesting information.
You are welcome. Space is fascinating stuff. Shame that an innocent post about moons such as mine has to be attacked by science deniers. The moons are millions of years old (probably 4.5 billion years old, as with the rest of the solar system), but the moons are a new discovery. It does not mean that the moons were formed in 2023.

An analogy would be buying a farmhouse on April 15, 2024, and one discovers a 1957 Chevy Bel Air tucked away in a garage that hasn't been moved since the 1970s. It does not mean that the Bel Air was made in 2024, it means that the buyer of the home first saw it in 2024.
 
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