New here, but not a Christian

[finding my way]

I'm 22 years old and this year I decided that I would try to figure out my religious beliefs, or if I had any. I started with reading the Bible both the OT and the NT and although I've finished months ago, I'm still left with many questions. I hoped that by reading the Bible, praying on a daily basis and listening to Christian music something would just "click", but sadly it hasn't happened. I feel as though unless you're born into a church, or you have some grand "moment" where it all makes sense, it's difficult, if impossible to figure it all out.

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are. My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different". Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel. I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

For years, as a teenager I considered myself Agnostic because that was an easy way out of the "So, what Religion are you" topic. But that's all it was, a way out, a title I had no connection to. Now I'm doing my research before I totally wipe the idea of God or Christianity away. I want to be informed.

I want nothing more to be able to say I believe and have a better understanding. (I don't know if I'll ever take on the title "Christian", but baby steps, that's what I'm trying to take here). And I hope that I can talk and even befriend a few people who can help me on this journey.

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

 

[Dragons87]

Welcome to CF! I'm also 22, male, living in London, England at the moment, but come from Hong Kong originally. I assure you that Christians come in all shapes, sizes and shades of colour. The key to Christianity, for me, is how one relates to his/her Creator.

I realise that not everyone can read my signature, so I attach my testimony here. This is just one out of millions of stories of how one rather downtrodden soul found the answer to perhaps the most important questions of life: "who am I?" and "what am I doing here?"

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask! All of us here are friendly, but please don't be put off by some seemingly unfriendly comments. As you will find out, quite a few people aren't able to wholly express themselves or explain their intentions fully using only words.

I was raised by Christian parents, and was baptised when I was 14. But in fact, two years earlier I had discovered self-gratification and inappropriate contentography. I also struggled with homosexual tendencies. For many years, I indulged in sin inside while keeping up appearances outside. I was deceived—I thought I was saved when clearly I wasn't.

When I went to university abroad, there was little to stop me sliding further into sexual sin. I stole inappropriate contentography from the internet and eventually had sex with another man. Meanwhile I continued to lead a double life in public.

Finally, the weight on my conscience grew too heavy for me to bear. I couldn't continue my double life. I Googled "inappropriate contentography addiction" and found "Setting Captives Free", a series of 60-day directed study of the Bible aimed at different types of habitual sin, including inappropriate contentography. The verse on the first day hit the nail on the head: "Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." I broke down into tears. The glory of God! That was the key! All my previous attempts to break free were based on my own agenda. But I had to do it ONLY for God's glory. I had to humble myself, repent and let him truly control my life.

Through studying the Bible, God showed me the root of my sin: my arrogance and pride, which blinded me to my hypocrisy. "He who humbles himself will be exalted," he promised. Through his power I began to learn how to take captive every thought and bring it to Christ and humble myself. I also learnt how to be accountable to others.

My struggle isn't over. It's a long journey, and I still fall occasionally. But the Lord is patient. He always helps me up again. I've never been more alive, clothed in robes of grace and righteousness. I hope that I am now ready to be a witness for him and serve him for his pleasure.

May all glory be with the Lord forever!

Update (July 2010): I have begun the "Door of Hope" course on SCF, aimed at addressing homosexuality. Hopefully more good news will follow!

 

[Sketcher]

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are. My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different". Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel.

That's a popular stereotype, but it really isn't true. Do you know any devoted Christians? People who don't just talk about their faith, but also practice it?

"Hate" is a very strong word, and I just don't think that accurately describes the conservative Christian attitude towards homosexuals or "different" people. If you're not used to being around any sort of person, there's going to be some awkwardness there, and unfortunately some Christians have not yet learned how to handle it. It unfortunately took years for me to get over that with goths. How did I learn to handle it? By watching a Christian who was comfortable with talking to goths and having good relationships with them.

What most Christians are taught to do is hate the sin, but love the sinner. Jesus did it - he ate with the dishonest tax collectors, but he didn't say their greed and extortion was OK. And he was not known as a hater of tax collectors and "sinners," but a lover of them. This is what we try to be towards homosexuals and other sinners. Unfortunately, hating the sin is purported by the media to equal hating the sinner, which is not true. We're not of this world. The way we do think and should think is according to Scripture.

I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

First, a disclaimer: I'm not going to lie, I disagree with both those stances, and I would like to see them change. But Christianity isn't about me or any other Christian's opinion. It's about being saved by, and following Christ.

Now, Christ made some pretty heavy demands of his followers. We need to put his leadership and his ways above ourselves. We need to conform to him. When we become Christians, we sign away everything pertaining to our lives to God. He owns us physically, mentally, spiritually. He is perfect, we are not. So we are obligated to become more like him. He'll take us no matter what views we have - but no matter what we have, no matter who we are, we should hold it loosely in our hands as an offering to him. You don't have to be a certain kind of person to become a Christian, but we must let God reform us into believing and acting more like himself. We will grow - but for that to happen, our sinful nature needs to die. You can be a loving person, or a hateful person - but to become more of one or the other, one must come at the expense of the other. This is a process that is not finished in this life, and usually fraught with setbacks, but it's the direction we must all go in. And if we really are heading in the right direction, we will be looking more like Christ - not like Fred Phelps or some other media caricature.

 

[JesusFreak78]

I'm 22 years old and this year I decided that I would try to figure out my religious beliefs, or if I had any. I started with reading the Bible both the OT and the NT and although I've finished months ago, I'm still left with many questions. I hoped that by reading the Bible, praying on a daily basis and listening to Christian music something would just "click", but sadly it hasn't happened. I feel as though unless you're born into a church, or you have some grand "moment" where it all makes sense, it's difficult, if impossible to figure it all out.

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are. My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different". Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel. I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

For years, as a teenager I considered myself Agnostic because that was an easy way out of the "So, what Religion are you" topic. But that's all it was, a way out, a title I had no connection to. Now I'm doing my research before I totally wipe the idea of God or Christianity away. I want to be informed.

I want nothing more to be able to say I believe and have a better understanding. (I don't know if I'll ever take on the title "Christian", but baby steps, that's what I'm trying to take here). And I hope that I can talk and even befriend a few people who can help me on this journey.

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

I think your problem with not understanding the bible is you don't want to be change. You are perfectly happy were you are which makes sense according to John 3:19 (And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.). The start is to understand that you are a sinner and God is a holy God and can't tolerate sin.

To understand what makes you a sinner, the ten commandments are a great place to go. God said not to take His name in vain (3rd commandment) which is blasphemy. Like saying, oh my G*d, C***st or to use His name as a swear word. God said not to lie (9th commandment) and most people if not everyone has lied at least once in life. He also said not to murder (6th commandment) and the bible tells us if you hate your brother it's the same as murder (1 John 3:15).

We have now just looked at three of the ten commandments and only one of them is enough to separate yourself from God. We are all guilty of braking the ten commandments.

If you want to understand the bible you need to stop leaning on your own understanding and trust God because only He can make you understand it.

 

[bling]

You are doing great so far, but do not expect to get much from books (including the Bible) and doing stuff alone.
You need to find some true Christ like individuals and not people that might call themselves’ Christians. You have done extremely well to realize the difference.
Doing this on line is difficult, but finding true Christians is also difficult.
Dragons87’s is what you need (there are a lot out there like him, but not easy to find) to be with eyeball to eyeball.
Do not feel you have to be anything different (or more) than you are right now, God does the changing at the pace you set. Like Dargons87 witness, God is not saying give up who you are or is He asking you do stuff for Him, but just accept what He has for you. God does not have a problem and need something from you! You have the void in your life, you hurt because you have hurt others in the past (sinned), you want purpose and meaning. God does not want something from you, but wants to give something to you (a free undeserving and unconditional gift). We are talking about the most powerful force in all universes (the force that compels even God to do all He does). God is trying to get you to accept His Love in the form of forgiveness (mercy, grace, charity, Love). Once you truly accept God’s forgiveness you will Love much “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Your past sins become part of your witness (like Dragon) and thus have a purpose (I sometimes wish I had as great a witness as Dragon).

 

[Guitarslinger87]

There is some real solid advice here so I'll be brief:

I was raised Jewish and when I was 14 my parents gave me the freedom to choose my own path....so I became an athiest. 15 years later I gave my life to Christ. There is no special prayer or formula that you say or do. God knows your heart.

The best thing I can tell you, based on your original post:

I hope I NEVER come to a place in my walk with Christ where I don't have any more questions.

Keep on walking towards Him. We will be praying for you.

 

[Lukaris]

I think a framework needs to be established in approaching the Bible since there is much in books like Joshua 6:21 etc. that are hard for many of us(speaking for myself at least) to comprehend. Jesus Christ actually sums up the old covenant in the golden rule (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31) & the command to love God & neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-34), live by the 10 commandments as much as possible, pondering the words of the Lord Jesus Christ re the scriptures in Luke 24:44. (A good example of where the Lord's words harmonize the old & new can be found by reading of the promise of the good shepard in Ezekiel 34 & then reading the fulfillment in John 10). So whatever unsettles us in the scriptures, we can rest assured that the basic & ultimate commands of the Lord are good and peaceful & the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5,6, & 7 gives us the core of the Gospel.

The key is to call on the Lord (Romans 10 ;9-13).

 

[salida]

Christians don't hate people but don't agree with certain values-its a false sterotype of hating anyone. If you want to be like Christ you must deny yourself and this world-this is what a christian is. Christ decides what a christian is and God judges by a persons actions.

Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/

 

[Freelyworships]

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

Christianity isn’t really about changing the person you are. It is about changing the relationship you have with the Lord and or God. The lord accepts everyone for who they are and not the things they aren’t.

Just by taking some time to read the bible is enough to show your interest in the lord. Your will is already showing and it is good to see. The lord can help you grow spirituality and in more ways than one.

Don’t give up, it might seem rough at times but it is really just a test of your commitment to faith and understanding. If I were to give you any advice, I would tell you not to let politics affect your faith.

 

[oi_antz]

My experience has shown me that the moment it all "clicks" is a spiritual baptism appointed by God, the water baptism is symbolic of our willingness to follow Jesus, but it is not necessarily appointed unto us to receive the spirit at the same time. For me, the spiritual baptism came 9 years after my water baptism and all the thoughts I ever had about God etc just fell into place that I now can discuss these topics with a natural understanding of the truth, which is consistent with the truth revealed to me by the spirit of God.

9 years is a long time for a believer to go without having a relationship with God, and I did become quite worldly. I never lost my respect for God, but I do believe I had heard many arguments from the enemy trying to claim me for his own. Our paths in life are very unique, it is all governed by will - God has a will that all shall be saved, humans have a will that they should be content - an impossible task. Sometime the will of the human will be ready to accept the will of God, and I think that might be the precise moment it happens. No doubt if there is a hurdle between you and God, you will be aware of it.

+1 your whole life doesn't need to change when you are converted, however naturally you will see the world through a new set of eyes (Christian) which will inevitably have some sort of impact on your life, but you'll enjoy every step of the way. In fact joy is just one of God's attributes and gifts, God is everything good, which includes tolerance.

Life is a long time to spend without knowing God for real, I'd encourage you never to give up hope on that and one day you might just come across a verse that you've never fully absorbed and it could just ignite that flame.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

Well I think I know your problem. Before God can work a miracle in your life - that is a miracle of belief and rebirth - you're going to have to get some humility before God. You can't say that you want to believe but then cross your arms and state you are not going change your beliefs. You can't say your not going to change when that's exactly what God wants! Humble yourself and see what happens. Pray for humility and a miracle of faith and your life and see if God is listening

 

[IFG1P315]

I'm 22 years old and this year I decided that I would try to figure out my religious beliefs, or if I had any.

Welcome to the forums, thanks for coming here and being a part of it. And way to go on deciding to figure things out. It matters, and regardless of where you end up you should be commended for putting effort into it.

I started with reading the Bible both the OT and the NT and although I've finished months ago, I'm still left with many questions. I hoped that by reading the Bible, praying on a daily basis and listening to Christian music something would just "click", but sadly it hasn't happened. I feel as though unless you're born into a church, or you have some grand "moment" where it all makes sense, it's difficult, if impossible to figure it all out.

Were you part of a regular worship experience and community during all this? That's a huge part of opening yourself up to that "moment".

But, the moment isn't necessarily necessary (sic). Let me see if I can come up with a good analogy.

I'm setting up a business right now with a friend of mine from church. We had the idea of few months ago and immediately realized it had inherent value. But it wasn't a complete idea. We've spent tons of time doing research, learning things about the industry, and ourselves and what we need to change to be able to do this. We're pitching to investors and soon we'll be renovating our space and so on and so on. Even once we are set up and open, there will be no single moment where the idea becomes a true reality. We simply need to keep centered on the idea, in which there is inherent value, and weeding through all the things, the process, which creates, or recognizes and invests in, that reality.

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are. My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different". Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel. I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

I go to church with some guys that are homosexual. They know how much I love them (and they will tell you that.) They also know how firmly I believe what they are doing is not right.

I definitely understand you feeling that way about "Christians." There are some people like that. But it does not, by and large, reflect who we are.

I totally respect you feeling that way about God too. I have known a lot of Christians who aren't as steadfast in not molding God into their own image. I would just say that regardless of how they turn out, those views don't influence whether or not God is true. If He is, those views are forfeit. Not by nature of the fact they are necessarily incompatible. Regardless of how I feel that is debatable. They are forfeit in the sense that if God is real, and wants a relationship with you, that necessitates a response, which means being willing to lay those views down if necessary.

For years, as a teenager I considered myself Agnostic because that was an easy way out of the "So, what Religion are you" topic. But that's all it was, a way out, a title I had no connection to. Now I'm doing my research before I totally wipe the idea of God or Christianity away. I want to be informed.

I have two books I simply must recommend. One is Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ and one is by a guy named Ralph Muncaster called, A Skeptic's Search For God. Even if you completely disagree with their conclusions, their reasoning and more importantly their methods of gathering their information are solid.

I want nothing more to be able to say I believe and have a better understanding. (I don't know if I'll ever take on the title "Christian", but baby steps, that's what I'm trying to take here). And I hope that I can talk and even befriend a few people who can help me on this journey.

I think the friend's thing is a great idea.

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

I was once like you. I believed the same things. I had the same resistance to change. And then I decided to follow Jesus, and as a result of that, my beliefs ended up changing. I would never tell you, or anyone else that you have to change to come to God. Just figure out if He's true or not. And if so, respond to that whole heartedly.

Good luck man. I'd be happy to help with any more thoughts or questions you have. I'm far from being the most knowledgeable person about such things, but I do okay.

 

[Criada]

I'm glad that you found us and are considering what you believe... that's a big step - a lot of people go through life wearing a label put on them by their parents, culture, friends, even themselves, and never stop to question why they believe or don't believe.

I'm sorry your experience with Christians has been negative... none of us are perfect and we don't always represent our Lord as we should. I'd advise you to look at Jesus, not at other Christians. Reading the whole Bible is commendable, and a lot more than many Christians have done, but maybe you could now choose a gospel, and just study Jesus - what He did, what He said, what He asks of his followers - even without the claim to deity, He is a very remarkable figure.
Keep praying... you may not 'feel' it, but faith isn't about feeling, it's about knowing the truth and believing it even when the feelings go. because they do come and go... but God is always the same.

He loves you, and He wants you to know Him - I am praying that you will find yourself able to accept and believe that very soon.

 

[Scot73MMX]

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"-Sir Isaac Newton
so if your walking to the light the darkness will try to drag you back
the biggest obstacle is tempation to give up too early this happens with seekers and new believers so hang in there

What translation are you reading?
I find the King James hard to understand due to the 400 year english
try reading a diferent traslation of the bible
there is a bible called START for seekers and new blievers

 

[aiki]

I'm 22 years old and this year I decided that I would try to figure out my religious beliefs, or if I had any. I started with reading the Bible both the OT and the NT and although I've finished months ago, I'm still left with many questions.

LOL! Welcome to the club!

I hoped that by reading the Bible, praying on a daily basis and listening to Christian music something would just "click", but sadly it hasn't happened.

Uh, you've got the cart before the horse here, I'm afraid. Christians read their Bible, pray, and listen to Christian music as a result of being "born again"; these things cannot produce the spiritual transformation that God intends should give rise to Bible reading, prayer, etc. Without the fellowship with God that should be the context within which these things occur, they are nothing more than empty ritual.

I feel as though unless you're born into a church, or you have some grand "moment" where it all makes sense, it's difficult, if impossible to figure it all out.

Yes and no. Being "born into a church" does not make one a Christian. Becoming a Christian is an individual event; one isn't saved from the consequences of their sin merely by association with other Christians. However, there is something of a "grand moment" for every believer in Christ, when God peels back the layers of darkness that obscure him from our view and we see our own desperate need of the Saviour.

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are.

Okay...

My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different".

LOL! That's more or less what my wife thought of me when she first met me! She wasn't a Christian at the time and found my often black-and-white approach to life, my certainty of moral and spiritual absolutes incredibly arrogant. She'd be the first to tell you now that this was largely because she was without mooring in these areas herself. It irked her no end that I could confidently claim to know God and His truth when she was so uncertain of these things herself. Her thinking was all about tolerance and being open-minded - except toward those who weren't the same way. But this sort of inconsistency was common to her worldview, though at the time she was completely oblivious to this fact.

I don't hate homosexuals, but I absolutely hate homosexuality! As for hating what is different, well, I'm a white guy married to an asian woman. My wife and I have some pretty obvious differences, but I couldn't care less. I have been, and in some cases still am, friends with lesbians, atheists, and an ex-con. My best friend and room mate during my university years was an immigrant from Guyana. Clearly, I don't have a problem with those who are different from me.

Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel.

Oh, I don't know about that...This sounds like a bit of a cop-out.

I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

Well, this is a problem. God's very clear about both of these issues and He's not in agreement with you. Trust me, He's not gonna' change His mind about them, either. But this is always the issue between people and their Maker: His way and will or our own.

For years, as a teenager I considered myself Agnostic because that was an easy way out of the "So, what Religion are you" topic. But that's all it was, a way out, a title I had no connection to. Now I'm doing my research before I totally wipe the idea of God or Christianity away. I want to be informed.

Uh, this sounds like you're just going through the motions, that you've already made up your mind to "wipe the idea of God and Christianity away." Is this how you're feeling about your final investigation of things Christian? If so, I'm not sure why you're bothering...

I want nothing more to be able to say I believe and have a better understanding.

Okay...So, you haven't quite made up your mind, then?

(I don't know if I'll ever take on the title "Christian", but baby steps, that's what I'm trying to take here).

Maybe a "follower of Christ" would suit you better? Could you follow him? After all, that's what being a Christian is.

And I hope that I can talk and even befriend a few people who can help me on this journey.

Sure! Let's hash things out!

What I do not want, is to be told I have to change my beliefs and what I stand for. I'm not looking to change the person I am and who I have been for many years. I'd like to grow, but not become a stranger to myself.

What if this is what God wants? What if in order to really grow you have to leave the person you are behind? Are you ready for such an adventure, for such a challenge? Just how serious are you about really knowing what is true?

Selah.

 

[Harry3142]

finding my way-

Welcome to the forum. Rather than try to talk you into believing, I'll simply explain where my belief comes from

We are not assured of our salvation because of our righteousness. We're assured of salvation because of God's righteousness:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

The righteousness which God accepts as true righteousness is his own. No mortal can obtain that righteousness via his own efforts. But what we could not obtain for ourselves, God obtained for us. That's why you sometimes hear the expression, "Christians aren't better than other people; they're better off."

As Christians there are certain acts which we see as sinful. But our code of conduct tells us that there are certain actions, and even certain feelings, which are an impediment to us, so that we know what to avoid in our own lives rather than what to condemn in another's.'The Christians' Code of Conduct', as I choose to call it, is this passage:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

This is our 'yardstick'. We are to shun 'the acts of the sinful nature'. But we are also to accept 'the fruit of the Spirit' as our 'border'. What we say and what we do is to have the 9 'fruits' as its basis. That includes our reactions to others who perform acts of the sinful nature. Their following that path does not give us license to also follow that path, even if our decision for following it is to stop them.

You would be surprised at how many churches, especially of the radical kind, try to 'dance around' this passage. There are 15 'acts of the sinful nature' listed. There are 9 'fruit of the Spirit' listed. All 15 of the acts are to be seen by Christians as equally sinful. There are no exceptions, and no excuses acceptable. All 9 fruit are to be seen as equally important. They are not one fruit that has sprouted branches. They are 9 seperate fruit, and we who are Christians are to see them that way.

They would like the 'acts' to be a buffet-in-reverse, where they can shun those acts that they themselves don't approve of, but keep, and use, those acts which are useful to their own agendas.They would also like the 'fruit' to be nothing more than an offshoot of 'love', as they define it to be. I knew a man who beat his 10-year old daughter so badly that her schoolteacher noticed it and called the police. He told them, "I did it because I love her." But there was no patience, no kindness, and no gentleness in what he did.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions about Christianity. God bless-

 

[WilliamPMiller]

Welcome, my friend, and I know you will find what is right for you.

 

[solarwave]

I'll be honest, I have a very dark view on the word "Christian" and those who say they are. My "idea" of a Christian is someone who is very ignorant and arrogant, a staunch conservative who hates homosexuals and anyone who's "different". Perhaps this is what the media shows and I've become numb to it all. But I can't help how I feel. I sometimes feel that I cannot believe or have a relationship with God because I hold different views that most Christians do not agree with. (I am pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage)

Some are like that, but not all.

For example there are many Christians we believe in evolution, allow abortion, euthanasia and same sex marriage and promote love as the highest virtue.