LDS My questions for our LDS friends

[Jane_Doe]

To determine if a religion is true we first examine the truthfulness of the texts. If the Bible said everything happened in Israel and there was never a Israel then that brings the whole book in to question. You cant make a book out to be truth if the land or people did not exist. If the Bible said that they rode on motorcycles back then would it not put the whole bible is to question? Of course it would. Islam has many flaws and it contradicts it self.

By this logic, Genesis and Exodus must be 100% literally truthful in order for any Abrahamic faith to be truthful. Is that what you believe?

 

[Jane_Doe]

What your saying is true if the LDS was just another church. But the LDS claim to be the only true restored church and as such opens itself to more criticism then that of other churches.

By what logic? LDS do not claim that human leaders are 100% perfectly sinless and perfect-- quite the opposite! The only perfect individual to walk this Earth was Christ, the ultimate head of our Church. The prophets and apostles are His servants.

 

[Followers4christ]

Ok.

You do realize that mainstream Christianity doesn't even agree on the number of books in in the Bible? They vary from 66 to 82. Let alone interpretation of those Bible verses and which extra-Biblical sources are to be accepted. For example, LDS are branded "non-Christian" because of rejection of some parts of the extra-Biblical Athanasian Creed.

Mainstream christian churches and institutions all claim there is 66 books in the bible and is even backed up on biblegateway and countless of other sites.

 

[Jane_Doe]

If God was behind the writing of the book of Mormon on the gold plates do you not think He would of said where his son was born at?

Of course God knows. But Alma 7 is a recording of a sermon given to Book of Mormon people in BC times. Why should the sermon speaker reference a place the sermon hearers have no idea about? That's illogical!

 

[Jane_Doe]

Mainstream christian churches and institutions all claim there is 66 books in the bible and is even backed up on biblegateway and countless of other sites.

Protestant churches mostly have 66 books, after the Protestant reformers removed books from the 73 Catholic Bible. Other churches vary more, such as the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church which 81 books.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I know it's an unpopular opinion but I consider Mormonism a heresy.

That's fine. You're free to believe whatever you want.

It's about as close to Christianity as Islam is

Do Muslims acknowledge Christ as their Lord, Savior, and Son of God? Nope.
Do LDS? Yes.
HUGE difference.

make a claim that Jesus wasn't really who the Bible says He is, etc.)

LDS make no such claim.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

You only need to look at the origins of the book of Mormon to see that it is questionable. There is one author. The bible has lots of authors of lots of books over thousands of years. The book of Mormon was written by one person, Joseph Smith who was a child at the time, who apparently found some ancient plates or something and translated them. How he knew and understood the language I'm not sure and I think he was about 13 at the time. Why is there also no evidence of these plates actually existing? Did they magically disappear after he translated them and why were these plates in New York in the first place?

So to summarise, a barely teenage boy had a prophetic ability to translate some plates that just happened to be buried near his house and non of it can be verified.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Answering this from the LDS perspective--

The book of Mormon was written by one person

The Book of Mormon has many authors through a thousand years of time. It has one central editor whom compiled these writing together (his name was Mormon). Linguistic studies have shown very different linguistic patterns during different parts authored by different people.

Joseph Smith who was a child at the time, who apparently found some ancient plates or something and translated them. How he knew and understood the language I'm not sure and I think he was about 13 at the time.

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon through the power of God.

 

[Peter1000]

I met with some missionaries a few weeks ago and had a good talk. But what confused me is they said I must "drop logic" and ask God if the Book Of Mormon was true or not. They did not answer any of my question. So here are 6 of my questions ( I have a total of 10 tho).

1. The biggest one Joseph Smith said "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." including the bible.

The bible geography and archaeologically is more accurate then that of the Book Of Mormon. Like today I could take you to Bethlehem, Dead Sea, Jerusalem and countless other places mentioned in the Bible. Can the same be said for the BOM? Archaeologically the bible has countless great finds, can the same be said for the BOM?

Also the BOM mentions sheep, goats and other animals that were not around at the time. Also the BOM mentions Barley and wheat that was not around at the time either. Not to mention the Bible has maps, where the BOM does not have any. So how can we say the BOM is more correct then the Bible?

Biblical Archaeology’s Top Ten Discoveries of 2015

Biblical Archaeology’s Top 10 Discoveries of 2016

Archaeologists discover supposed new location of Jesus's trial in Jerusalem

2. My wife is black so this was also a big deal. In 2 Nephi 5:21 says "... wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Now the part where is says "white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome" Why is white skin delightsome? The bible says in Galatians 3:28 that we all are one in Christ regardless if Jew or gentile. So it looks like 2 Nephi was written from a mans point of view and not one from God. This same way of thinking was repeated in Alma 3:6. What are your thoughts?

3. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, when the Bible repeatedly say he was born in Bethlehem. The missionaries said it was very close and that everyone knows where Jerusalem is but not everyone would know where Bethlehem was. But if the Book Of Mormon is the most correct book even more so then the bible how could it get that wrong?

4. In 2 Nephi 2:23 it says "And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin." the Bible specifically declares that Adam’s transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout God’s perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). Not that we would find "joy" through the fall. Being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience ever?

5. Helaman 14:27 says at Christ's crucifixion, there was three days of darkness. The Bible says it was hours not 3 days. What do you think?

6. The Bible has been corrupted over time known as the Apostasy. But the Dead Sea scrolls are important as they show this to not be true. here are some links that go more in to this.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Shed Light on the Accuracy of our Bible

One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”{7}

Despite the thousand year gap, scholars found the Masoretic Text and Dead Sea Scrolls to be nearly identical. The Dead Sea Scrolls provide valuable evidence that the Old Testament had been accurately and carefully preserved.

Is the Bible True? Proof 2: Dead Sea Scrolls

Norman Geisler is the author of several books on the subject of inerrancy: Inerrancy, 1978; General Introduction to the Bible, 1986; and From God to Us, 2012. Dr. Geisler says the Dead Sea Scrolls provide the best external evidence showing the validity of the Masoretic Text, proving that this text type was in fact accurately preserved over a period of about 1,000 years from the first century to the 900s A.D.



Another good link for this study:
The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity


So from the Bible and the Book Of Mormon I do not see how the BOM could be even remotely more accurate then the Bible.

Our missionaries are sent out to bear testimony of the truthfulness of the existence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

They also bear testimony that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the HS came to JS and restored the true gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth again.

That is their mission. To bear Testimony to these things.

It is not their mission to get into endless and totally meaningless debates with people about the endless trivialities of what you think we believe and what you believe about God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

They are 18-21 years old and are not trained and have not researched and debated for years and years about the intricate details of every scripture in the Bible or the BOM. So I guarentee that you will be disappointed in your discussion with them, if you are looking to argue and debate.

In order to get something from what our missionaires are telling people, you have to be searching for the truth. You have to be humble and submissive to what the Lord has in mind for you. You have to be willing to open your heart and your minds to what you are being taught. You have to be willing to study and pray about what the missionaires tell you. Oh, and by the way, these missionaries baptize thousands of people, who join the church every year because they are truely searching for the truth. Thousands.

Only with this kind of an attitude will the Lord be able to touch you and confirm in your soul that the Bible and the BOM are true and are 2 independent witnesses to the truthfulness that Jesus did exist and that he is the Son of God the Father and you receive this information by the HS.

Only this way will you be moved to become a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and be baptized and recieve the permanent gift of the HS. Then you can move forward as a new person in Jesus and do faithful works that will give glory to God the Father and His Son. Faithful works that will build the Kingdom of God here on earth, and will be a major factor for the salvation of many people. Jesus will then give you the gift of grace and you will be allowed into his Kingdom and live with God the Father and Jesus and the HS forever and ever.

Finally, all your questions can be answered in this 1 answer: If the BOM is true, then,
1) Jesus Christ is really the Son of God the Father.
2) JS did see God the Father and Jesus Christ.
3) JS received instructions from Jesus Christ and the true Church of Jesus Christ was restored to the earth in our day.
4) There are apostles and prophets today just like in the original church, and will be here until Jesus returns a second time, for the purpose of leading and guiding the church as Jesus would have done it if he were still here.
5) You must be a member of this restored church in order to receive the essential ordinances that were required by Peter in the first century church and are still required by JS in the twenty-first century church.

This is the challenge your challenge. If the BOM is true, (and what could be more true than a book bearing testimony of Jesus Christ) then everything that JS said is true, and all your questions are mute.

 

[Peter1000]

You only need to look at the origins of the book of Mormon to see that it is questionable. There is one author. The bible has lots of authors of lots of books over thousands of years. The book of Mormon was written by one person, Joseph Smith who was a child at the time, who apparently found some ancient plates or something and translated them. How he knew and understood the language I'm not sure and I think he was about 13 at the time. Why is there also no evidence of these plates actually existing? Did they magically disappear after he translated them and why were these plates in New York in the first place?

So to summarise, a barely teenage boy had a prophetic ability to translate some plates that just happened to be buried near his house and non of it can be verified.

Before you write anything more about what happened to JS, you need to study and pray so you get your facts right. I count 7 mistakes in just these 2 paragraphs.

I just hope they are mistakes and not a false witness. IOW you know you are not telling the truth. Jesus does not like a person that bears false witness.

If you wish, I will tell you the 7 mistakes.

 

[Strathos]

LDS make no such claim.

Don't you believe that He is Satan's brother? And not God incarnate?

 

[Peter1000]

I know it's an unpopular opinion but I consider Mormonism a heresy. It's about as close to Christianity as Islam is (both of them start with Christianity as a foundation but then add a new prophet who supposedly gave the final/best revelation from God, make a claim that Jesus wasn't really who the Bible says He is, etc.)

Mormonism believes that Jesus was divine. We are followers of Jesus Christ. We are Christians.

Islam does not believe that Jesus was divine. They are not followers of Jesus. They are not Christians.

Just one minor difference between Mormons and Islam.

I know you do not think that Mormons believe Jesus is divine, but it does not matter what you think, we know he is divine. Study up.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Don't you believe that He is Satan's brother?

LDS believe that the Father is the Father of EVERYONE. EVERYONE includes me, you, Christ, Elvis, Hitler, Mother Teresa, your mail man, and Lucifer. This has nothing to do with how good/evil a person is, but the supremacy of fact that the Father is the Father to everyone.

And not God incarnate?

Jesus Christ is the living Son of God, whom has always existed and is 100% divine and 100% ONE with the Father. He is also creator of this world, Savior of this world, and Alpha and Omega. He is not the same person as the Father but humbly submits to the Father and refers to Him as "my God" (John 20:17).

 

[Ironhold]

I met with some missionaries a few weeks ago and had a good talk. But what confused me is they said I must "drop logic" and ask God if the Book Of Mormon was true or not. They did not answer any of my question. So here are 6 of my questions ( I have a total of 10 tho).

For the record, asking one question at a time would be easier next time around since we could focus on them one at a time.

1. The biggest one Joseph Smith said "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." including the bible.

In this case, correct = doctrinally correct.

The bible geography and archaeologically is more accurate then that of the Book Of Mormon. Like today I could take you to Bethlehem, Dead Sea, Jerusalem and countless other places mentioned in the Bible. Can the same be said for the BOM? Archaeologically the bible has countless great finds, can the same be said for the BOM?

Various apologetics websites, almost all of them independent of the church, have looked at the archaeology issue. These are a few bits from one such website that you might wish to look over.

Book of Mormon Evidences, Part One: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility

Response to the Smithsonian Institute Statement on the Book of Mormon

Book of Mormon Problems: Plants and Animals

2. My wife is black so this was also a big deal. In 2 Nephi 5:21 says "... wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

While the Lamanites did have their skin darkened so that they could be told apart from the Nephites on sight, you need to remember that these were a Hebrew people already and so we're not talking about what people seem to think it's talking about.

Additionally, "white" and "pure" are known synonyms, as are "dark" and "impure", suggesting that perhaps at least some of the change was due to lifestyle choices that affected physical appearance.

3. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, when the Bible repeatedly say he was born in Bethlehem. The missionaries said it was very close and that everyone knows where Jerusalem is but not everyone would know where Bethlehem was. But if the Book Of Mormon is the most correct book even more so then the bible how could it get that wrong?

Again, theologically.

Also, in real life it's quite common for people to reference larger metropolitan areas as a ballpark when talking about where they're from. As an extreme example, consider the Dallas / Ft. Worth Metroplex, which is larger than some countries. If a person says that they're from Dallas, they could literally be from one of dozens of cities.

4. In 2 Nephi 2:23 it says "And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin." the Bible specifically declares that Adam’s transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout God’s perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). Not that we would find "joy" through the fall. Being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience ever?

One of the study aids you'll need to familiarize yourself with is the topical guide, a listing of scriptures by subject; on the church website, the link to the whole verse is to the left of the entry.

Joy

5. Helaman 14:27 says at Christ's crucifixion, there was three days of darkness. The Bible says it was hours not 3 days. What do you think?

You need to remember that while the Bible is recording what took place in the Middle East, the Book of Mormon is recording what took place in Central America. Many people seem to forget this.

Why is this important?

Look over 3 Nephi 8 -

3 Nephi 8

The description of events provided in chapters 8, 9, and 10 are in keeping with a cataclysmic geological upheaval. As we saw a few years ago when that major volcano went in Iceland, sufficiently cataclysmic upheavals can leave ash clouds circulating for days on end.

6. The Bible has been corrupted over time known as the Apostasy. But the Dead Sea scrolls are important as they show this to not be true. here are some links that go more in to this.

The Scrolls don't cover the entire Bible; they don't even cover the entire Old Testament. This seems to get lost in the discussion of matters.

 

[Ironhold]

All valid questions, not to mention that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ as part of the eternal Godhead, but they believe that he was created, and all people on day will transform into Gods, kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.

Where did you get that from? That's a pretty major misunderstanding of what we believe.

 

[Ironhold]

The missionaries I talked to both in Idaho and in California agreed it was not a symbolic action. Plus church actions speak for it self:

Black History Timeline - Blacklds.org

The issue of race relations is far more complex than what most people outside of the church seem to be aware.

This includes, for example, the fact that the church was working on integrating its clergy in the 1830s and that this integration likely played a key role in sparking the Missouri Conflict.

Blacks could not hold the "priesthood" till 1978 after the LDS church was making a move in South Africa.

This is incorrect.

LDS Statistics and Church Facts | Total Church Membership

Missionaries first arrived in South Africa in the 1850s. The first LDS facility was constructed circa 1917.

So as we can see, the church was in South Africa generations before the ban was lifted.

 

[Rescued One]

All valid questions, not to mention that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ as part of the eternal Godhead, but they believe that he was created, and all people on day will transform into Gods, kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.

Their godhead is made up of three gods. They believe that all three are divine, but not equal.

 

[Rescued One]

All valid questions, not to mention that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ as part of the eternal Godhead, but they believe that he was created, and all people on day will transform into Gods, kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.

No, Mormons teach that godhood has to be earned. Not everyone will obey every law in order to become a god.

Mormonism is a plan of laws and obedience to get blessings.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

[Jane_Doe]

No, Mormons teach that godhood has to be earned. Not everyone will obey every law in order to become a god.

Mormonism is a plan of laws and obedience to get blessings.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Mormons believe Christ when He says "if you love me, keep my commandments". Starting first with loving God. And no, this is not "earning" salvation, this is listening to our shepherd.

 

[Rescued One]

You only need to look at the origins of the book of Mormon to see that it is questionable. There is one author. The bible has lots of authors of lots of books over thousands of years. The book of Mormon was written by one person, Joseph Smith who was a child at the time, who apparently found some ancient plates or something and translated them. How he knew and understood the language I'm not sure and I think he was about 13 at the time. Why is there also no evidence of these plates actually existing? Did they magically disappear after he translated them and why were these plates in New York in the first place?

Mormons don't believe that Joseph Smith was the author. They believe there were several men who were inspired to write parts of it in previous times.

They also believe that Joseph Smith gave the plates to an angel and that is why no one else can study them.

So to summarise, a barely teenage boy had a prophetic ability to translate some plates that just happened to be buried near his house and non of it can be verified.