LDS My questions for our LDS friends

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I met with some missionaries a few weeks ago and had a good talk. But what confused me is they said I must "drop logic" and ask God if the Book Of Mormon was true or not. They did not answer any of my question. So here are 10 of my questions.

1. The biggest one Joseph Smith said "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." including the bible.

The bible geography and archaeologically is more accurate then that of the Book Of Mormon. Like today I could take you to Bethlehem, Dead Sea, Jerusalem and countless other places mentioned in the Bible. Can the same be said for the BOM? Archaeologically the bible has countless great finds, can the same be said for the BOM?

Also the BOM mentions sheep, goats and other animals that were not around at the time. Also the BOM mentions Barley and wheat that was not around at the time either. Not to mention the Bible has maps, where the BOM does not have any. So how can we say the BOM is more correct then the Bible?

Biblical Archaeology’s Top Ten Discoveries of 2015

Biblical Archaeology’s Top 10 Discoveries of 2016

Archaeologists discover supposed new location of Jesus's trial in Jerusalem

2. My wife is black so this was also a big deal. In 2 Nephi 5:21 says "... wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Now the part where is says "white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome" Why is white skin delightsome? The bible says in Galatians 3:28 that we all are one in Christ regardless if Jew or gentile. So it looks like 2 Nephi was written from a mans point of view and not one from God. This same way of thinking was repeated in Alma 3:6. What are your thoughts?

3. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, when the Bible repeatedly say he was born in Bethlehem. The missionaries said it was very close and that everyone knows where Jerusalem is but not everyone would know where Bethlehem was. But if the Book Of Mormon is the most correct book even more so then the bible how could it get that wrong?

4. In 2 Nephi 2:23 it says "And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin." the Bible specifically declares that Adam’s transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout God’s perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). Not that we would find "joy" through the fall. Being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience ever?

5. Helaman 14:27 says at Christ's crucifixion, there was three days of darkness. The Bible says it was hours not 3 days. What do you think?

6. The Bible has been corrupted over time known as the Apostasy. But the Dead Sea scrolls are important as they show this to not be true. here are some links that go more in to this.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Shed Light on the Accuracy of our Bible

One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”{7}

Despite the thousand year gap, scholars found the Masoretic Text and Dead Sea Scrolls to be nearly identical. The Dead Sea Scrolls provide valuable evidence that the Old Testament had been accurately and carefully preserved.

Is the Bible True? Proof 2: Dead Sea Scrolls

Norman Geisler is the author of several books on the subject of inerrancy: Inerrancy, 1978; General Introduction to the Bible, 1986; and From God to Us, 2012. Dr. Geisler says the Dead Sea Scrolls provide the best external evidence showing the validity of the Masoretic Text, proving that this text type was in fact accurately preserved over a period of about 1,000 years from the first century to the 900s A.D.



Another good link for this study:
The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity

7. Polygamy and a divided church. My question is why would God change his mind from the teachings of the Old, new testament in regards to LDS teachings? The bible both new and old testament say marriage is between one man and one woman. But early LDS teachings suggest that God changed his mind and allowed polygamy. Then in 1890 God changed his mind again and discontinued this act according to the LDS church.Yet some like the FLDS still continue this practice and has brought much tension between the LDS community. So why would God change his mind from the creation on man and woman and then re-change it back? and what LDS church is the true church when you both are very similar teachings just the FLDS has stayed faithful to that practice? The end of polygamy did not come from God, it came from pressure from the US government that ended this practice. So the LDS church is listening to man instead of God if this was true.

Struggle For Statehood

8. Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom. The Bible makes it clear that those who believe in and follow him are saved, or as Jesus put it in Luke 23 to a man who was dying for his crimes "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." There is no other "kingdoms" that are talked about in the bible nor does the Bible show favoritism on who gets what kingdom. As we are all sinners and all fall short of the glory of God. As Paul put it in " but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?" We can see that Paul just like all of us struggles just like everyone of us and is no different then you or me.

But in Doctrine and Covenants 76:76 talking about the Celestial Kingdom it says "These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness." I do not recall where Jesus ever made such a claim. The bible said that all who call on him and follow him are one in Christ. So why is there the need for 3 kingdoms?

Galatians 3:26-28 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

9. Melchizedek priesthood. The LDS say they have the authority of the Melchizedek priesthood. But only Jesus holds that position according Hebrews 5:5-10 and nowhere in the bible mentions that anyone else would achieve this priesthood. Also through this priesthood LDS believe it gave them authority to administer to the sick and give special blessings to family members and others. Can you show me from the Bible where it states that the “authority” to preach the gospel, to baptize, and to offer the sacraments, comes from being a member of the Melchizedek priesthood?


10. The Book of Mormon speaks clearly that it was not inspired by God when you compare it with what God has already said about inspiration. I Nephi 1:3; 19:4-6: II Nephi 11:1; 25:7; 33:1; Mormon 1:2-6; Jacob 7:26-27, contrasted to Deuteronomy 4:2; 1 Corinthians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20-21. According to I Nephi 1:3 it says "And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge."

Isaiah 59:21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them," says the LORD. "My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants--from this time on and forever," says the LORD.

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever."

John 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

So how can we honestly say the Book Of Mormon is more correct as it was made through human wisdom and the Bible is from God's and will last forever according Isaiah 40:8. But the LDS faith claim that through the Apostasy the bible became corrupted and only the Book Of Mormon is accurate. How does that make sense?


So from the Bible and the Book Of Mormon I do not see how the BOM could be even remotely more accurate then the Bible. I have a few more questions but will discuss those in another thread at a later time. Here is a video that I watched that I think it digs in to some of this deeper.


Here are some links that go deeper in this:

Is Mormonism Christian? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

http://www.equip.org/article/is-the-book-of-mormon-credible/

I am a Mormon. Why should I consider becoming a Christian?

The LDS said they testified the book was true, but here are many more testimonies of members leaving the church.

Ex-Mormon Testimonies | 4Mormon

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bhayes

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All valid questions, not to mention that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ as part of the eternal Godhead, but they believe that he was created, and all people on day will transform into Gods, kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I met with some missionaries a few weeks ago and had a good talk. But what confused me is they said I must "drop logic" and ask God if the Book Of Mormon was true or not.
That was an extremely poor choice of words on their part. I would in no way agree with that word choice or phrase things that way.
1. The biggest one Joseph Smith said "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." including the bible.

The bible geography and archaeologically is more accurate then that of the Book Of Mormon. Like today I could take you to Bethlehem, Dead Sea, Jerusalem and countless other places mentioned in the Bible. Can the same be said for the BOM? Archaeologically the bible has countless great finds, can the same be said for the

Also the BOM mentions sheep, goats and other animals that were not around at the time. Also the BOM mentions Barley and wheat that was not around at the time either. Not to mention the Bible has maps, where the BOM does not have any. So how can we say the BOM is more correct then the Bible?

Biblical Archaeology’s Top Ten Discoveries of 2015

Biblical Archaeology’s Top 10 Discoveries of 2016

Archaeologists discover supposed new location of Jesus's trial in Jerusalem
BOM?
The Joesph Smith quote here is referring to Truthfulness (God's Truthful message of the Gospel), not geography and archaeologically so this part of your question is dijointed and can't be answered how it's phrased.

Do you think archeology is the epistemological method we should use to determine of God's Truth? How about the numerous archeological claims of Islam- does that make Islam True?

2. My wife is black so this was also a big deal. In 2 Nephi 5:21 says "... wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Now the part where is says "white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome" Why is white skin delightsome? The bible says in Galatians 3:28 that we all are one in Christ regardless if Jew or gentile. So it looks like 2 Nephi was written from a mans point of view and not one from God. This same way of thinking was repeated in Alma 3:6. What are your thoughts?
The "white" referred to here is white symbolically, same as Isaiah 1:18, referring to purity. Likewise, darkness is a referring to symbolical darkness- lack of God's light. No, the Book of Mormon is not saying people of Caucasian descent are somehow good or people of African descent are somehow automatically evil (in fact there are no Caucasian or African people in the Book of Mormon at all).

Rather, it's talking about a small group of people dissented from two families, where in some families left the way of the Lord (dark Lamanites) and some stayed pure to the Lord (symbolic whiteness Nephites). And the Lamanites=bad and Nephites=good is dichotomy doesn't hold up through the Book of Mormon either- from the beginning it's a simplification of a complex history. There are plenty of times the people move between them and the Lamanites are more righteous than the Nephites. For example, on the eve of Christ's birth Nephites are horrible evil and God sends a Lamanite prophet to tell of Christ's upcoming birth. And what do the Nephites do? Cast him out of the city, and then we the prophet climbs the city wall to be heard they try to kill him that's it's only the Lord's protection that keeps him alive.
 
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bhayes

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The Joesph Smith quote here is referring to Truthfulness (God's Truthful message of the Gospel), not geography and archaeologically so this part of your question is dijointed and can't be answered how it's phrased.

Do you think archeology is the epistemological method we should use to determine of God's Truth? How about the numerous archeological claims of Islam- does that make Islam True?

.

How can God's truthfulness be more accurate in the book of mormon? The bible contradicts with the book of mormon throughout it extensively. So which one is right? For example, the claims made in the koran contradict with the bible, just like the claims in the book of mormon, so we know both arent true.
 
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Followers4christ

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That was an extremely poor choice of words on their part. I would in no way agree with that word choice or phrase things that way.

The Joesph Smith quote here is referring to Truthfulness (God's Truthful message of the Gospel), not geography and archaeologically so this part of your question is dijointed and can't be answered how it's phrased.

Do you think archeology is the epistemological method we should use to determine of God's Truth? How about the numerous archeological claims of Islam- does that make Islam True?

To determine if a religion is true we first examine the truthfulness of the texts. If the Bible said everything happened in Israel and there was never a Israel then that brings the whole book in to question. You cant make a book out to be truth if the land or people did not exist. If the Bible said that they rode on motorcycles back then would it not put the whole bible is to question? Of course it would. Islam has many flaws and it contradicts it self.
 
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Jane_Doe

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3. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was born in Jerusalem, when the Bible repeatedly say he was born in Bethlehem. The missionaries said it was very close and that everyone knows where Jerusalem is but not everyone would know where Bethlehem was. But if the Book Of Mormon is the most correct book even more so then the bible how could it get that wrong?
In Alma, the people Alma was addressing had no idea where Bethlehem was- and how would they? They had had no contact with the Old World for 500 years! Or approximately 2,500 generations. Do you know the precise geography of where you 2500th great grandpa lived? I sure don't! In fact, I still say that Australia friend lives in Sydney when in reality she lives 300+ miles from Sydney- and I last contacted her yesterday, have Skype toured her house, Google Earth stalked her, etc. Comparatively, Jerusalem's suburb Bethlehem is a mere 4.4 miles away and these people hadn't had contact in thousands of generations.
4. In 2 Nephi 2:23 it says "And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin." the Bible specifically declares that Adam’s transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout God’s perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). Not that we would find "joy" through the fall. Being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience ever?
Yes, being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience-- *IF* you know what it is you're experiencing and valuing it. But if you've never experienced anything else and the worse day in your existence is a day with God then you don't appreciate the joy at all- it's the worse day you've ever known!
5. Helaman 14:27 says at Christ's crucifixion, there was three days of darkness. The Bible says it was hours not 3 days. What do you think?
3 days in the New World, 3 hours in the Old World.
So from the Bible and the Book Of Mormon I do not see how the BOM could be even remotely more accurate then the Bible.
4 of the 5 questions here don't address theological accuracy at all.

If you want, I can also address question 6-10.
 
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Jane_Doe

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All valid questions, not to mention that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ as part of the eternal Godhead, but they believe that he was created, and all people on day will transform into Gods, kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.
Actually, LDS do believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, and that He as alway existed.
all people on day will transform into Gods
Those whom fully accept Christ will become joint heirs with Him (Romans 8:17) and will become perfect like the Father. This is something Christ commands us to do (Matthew 5:48).
kind of like Satan's lie in the garden.
Satan's lie is in Genesis 3:4 " 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (emphasis added). That is the lie: we shall all die physically and spiritually, to then be reborn in Christ.
 
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bhayes

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In Alma, the people Alma was addressing had no idea where Bethlehem was- and how would they? They had had no contact with the Old World for 500 years! Or approximately 2,500 generations. Do you know the precise geography of where you 2500th great grandpa lived? I sure don't! In fact, I still say that Australia friend lives in Sydney when in reality she lives 300+ miles from Sydney- and I last contacted her yesterday, have Skype toured her house, Google Earth stalked her, etc. Comparatively, Jerusalem's suburb Bethlehem is a mere 4.4 miles away and these people hadn't had contact in thousands of generations.

Yes, being in God's presence is not that the most joyful experience-- *IF* you know what it is you're experiencing and valuing it. But if you've never experienced anything else and the worse day in your existence is a day with God then you don't appreciate the joy at all- it's the worse day you've ever known!

I can't really argue with you because you wont believe if you dont want to, but I urge you to look at this YouTube channel by clicking here Apologia Studios or searching them up on YouTube as Apologia Radio. They are christian apologists who engage and debate with different kinds of LDS people, missionaries etc. Look them up watch their videos, they will really help you.

Here is an example of a video:
 
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Jane_Doe

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The bible contradicts with the book of mormon throughout it extensively.
There actually are no contradictions, though websites which try to spin things out of context and make them appear contradictory are a dime a dozen. Likewise websites which try to spin Bible verses out of context and make them appear contradictory are a dime a dozen.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I can't really argue with you because you wont believe if you dont want to, but I urge you to look at this YouTube channel by clicking here Apologia Studios or searching them up on YouTube as Apologia Radio. They are christian apologists who engage with different kinds of LDS people, missionaries etc. Look them up watch their videos, they will really help you.
I am very familiar with the works of Apologia Studios and have watched their videos many times and met their representatives. While much better than some anti-Mormon places, they still are professionally lying to you about LDS beliefs. If you want to get the truth of what LDS believe, go to the first hand source, not Apologia Studios.
 
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bhayes

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I am very familiar with the works of Apologia Studios and have watched their videos many times and met their representatives. While much better than some anti-Mormon places, they still are professionally lying to you about LDS beliefs. If you want to get the truth of what LDS believe, go to the first hand source, not Apologia Studios.

I have met with Mormon missionaries on a few occasions and there is nothing different from what apologia says and what the OP says. There are contradictions about many things, primarily the authenticity of Joseph Smith, and Ive have this debate with them many times.
 
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Followers4christ

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The "white" referred to here is white symbolically, same as Isaiah 1:18, referring to purity. Likewise, darkness is a referring to symbolical darkness- lack of God's light. No, the Book of Mormon is not saying people of Caucasian descent are somehow good or people of African descent are somehow automatically evil (in fact there are no Caucasian or African people in the Book of Mormon at all).

Rather, it's talking about a small group of people dissented from two families, where in some families left the way of the Lord (dark Lamanites) and some stayed pure to the Lord (symbolic whiteness Nephites). And the Lamanites=bad and Nephites=good is dichotomy doesn't hold up through the Book of Mormon either- from the beginning it's a simplification of a complex history. There are plenty of times the people move between them and the Lamanites are more righteous than the Nephites. For example, on the eve of Christ's birth Nephites are horrible evil and God sends a Lamanite prophet to tell of Christ's upcoming birth. And what do the Nephites do? Cast him out of the city, and then we the prophet climbs the city wall to be heard they try to kill him that's it's only the Lord's protection that keeps him alive.

The missionaries I talked to both in Idaho and in California agreed it was not a symbolic action. Plus church actions speak for it self:

In 1852, while addressing the Utah Territorial Legislature, Young stated, "Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it."

When asked "if the spirits of Negroes were neutral in Heaven," Young responded, "No, they were not, there were no neutral [spirits] in Heaven at the time of the rebellion, all took sides. ... All spirits are pure that came from the presence of God." Learning about Enoch Lewis's marriage to a woman of European descent (December 1847) and subsequently enacting a ban on Negroes in the priesthood, he considered Walker Lewis "one of the best Elders."

Black people in Mormon doctrine - Wikipedia

“Any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him cannot hold the priesthood,” he declared in 1852. Young deemed black-white intermarriage so sinful that he suggested that a man could atone for it only by having “his head cut off” and spilling “his blood upon the ground.” Other Mormon leaders convinced themselves that the pre-existent spirits of black people had sinned in heaven by supporting Lucifer in his rebellion against God.

Racism and the Mormon Church

Blacks could not hold the "priesthood" till 1978 after the LDS church was making a move in South Africa.

1978 Revelation on Priesthood - Wikipedia
 
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Jane_Doe

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I have met with Mormon missionaries on a few occasions and there is nothing different from what apologia says
Did the LDS missionaries tell you "they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ" such as you claimed in post #2? Nope.

I don't care that you don't agree with LDS beliefs and fully respect your right to believe whatever you want. Please just don't go around telling falsehoods about what I believe.
 
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Jane_Doe

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The missionaries I talked to both in Idaho and in California agreed it was not a symbolic action. Plus church actions speak for it self:

In 1852, while addressing the Utah Territorial Legislature, Young stated, "Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it."

When asked "if the spirits of Negroes were neutral in Heaven," Young responded, "No, they were not, there were no neutral [spirits] in Heaven at the time of the rebellion, all took sides. ... All spirits are pure that came from the presence of God." Learning about Enoch Lewis's marriage to a woman of European descent (December 1847) and subsequently enacting a ban on Negroes in the priesthood, he considered Walker Lewis "one of the best Elders."

Black people in Mormon doctrine - Wikipedia

“Any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him cannot hold the priesthood,” he declared in 1852. Young deemed black-white intermarriage so sinful that he suggested that a man could atone for it only by having “his head cut off” and spilling “his blood upon the ground.” Other Mormon leaders convinced themselves that the pre-existent spirits of black people had sinned in heaven by supporting Lucifer in his rebellion against God.

Racism and the Mormon Church

Blacks could not hold the "priesthood" till 1978.

1978 Revelation on Priesthood - Wikipedia
And here come the "LDS once had a racist leader so they must all be evil" comments... *Sigh* After all, there's never been a racist mainstream Christian leader (such as Martian Luther). No one's ever used the Bible to defend slavery. Christian churches never forbid certain races to attend services.

The fact is that we are ALL sinners. We've ALL made mistakes and racism is a plague on ALL parts of the world.

Anyway, if you want to read about LDS history and people of African American descent, I suggest this official essay: Race and the Priesthood
 
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bhayes

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Did the LDS missionaries tell you "they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ" such as you claimed in post #2? Nope.

I don't care that you don't agree with LDS beliefs and fully respect your right to believe whatever you want. Please just don't go around telling falsehoods about what I believe.

I was told that Jesus was a man before he was God and that he was created. Also they used verses like "he preached onto the spirits in prison" as evidence but this makes no sense. They basically said that Jesus and God were one in purpose but this is not the same as Christian Trinity, and I know that they don't beleive in the Christian form of the trinity, there is an edited version but it uses the same language. Also on Joseph Smith, they basically said to disregard all the evidence against him because they don't like to follow man. I am not being disrespectful, but you are following a religion that has misrepresented the bible, same as Islam. In fact, there is a parallel between Islam and Mormonism because both were started by followers who after the revelation of Jesus Christ, claimed to have the true revelation that God intended, and both are extensively contradicted in the bible.
 
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Strathos

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I know it's an unpopular opinion but I consider Mormonism a heresy. It's about as close to Christianity as Islam is (both of them start with Christianity as a foundation but then add a new prophet who supposedly gave the final/best revelation from God, make a claim that Jesus wasn't really who the Bible says He is, etc.)
 
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Followers4christ

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And here come the "LDS once had a racist leader so they must all be evil" comments... *Sigh* After all, there's never been a racist mainstream Christian leader (such as Martian Luther). No one's ever used the Bible to defend slavery. Christian churches never forbid certain races to attend services.

The fact is that we are ALL sinners. We've ALL made mistakes and racism is a plague on ALL parts of the world.

Anyway, if you want to read about LDS history and people of African American descent, I suggest this official essay: Race and the Priesthood

What your saying is true if the LDS was just another church. But the LDS claim to be the only true restored church and as such opens itself to more criticism then that of other churches.

“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased” (D&C 1:30).

The Only True and Living Church
 
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In Alma, the people Alma was addressing had no idea where Bethlehem was- and how would they? They had had no contact with the Old World for 500 years! Or approximately 2,500 generations. Do you know the precise geography of where you 2500th great grandpa lived? I sure don't! In fact, I still say that Australia friend lives in Sydney when in reality she lives 300+ miles from Sydney- and I last contacted her yesterday, have Skype toured her house, Google Earth stalked her, etc. Comparatively, Jerusalem's suburb Bethlehem is a mere 4.4 miles away and these people hadn't had contact in thousands of generations.

If God was behind the writing of the book of Mormon on the gold plates do you not think He would of said where his son was born at? The BOM is open to human error as this points out and is no different then any other book. So how can you claim it is from God?
 
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Jane_Doe

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Jun 12, 2015
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By the way I posted my 6th question in the OP and will post the remaining 4 questions when I have more time.
Ok.
6. The Bible has been corrupted over time known as the Apostasy. But the Dead Sea scrolls are important as they show this to not be true.
You do realize that mainstream Christianity doesn't even agree on the number of books in in the Bible? They vary from 66 to 82. Let alone interpretation of those Bible verses and which extra-Biblical sources are to be accepted. For example, LDS are branded "non-Christian" because of rejection of some parts of the extra-Biblical Athanasian Creed.
 
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