My Next Apple Challenge

[VirOptimus]

If it's so pointless, why do scientific methodists ask for evidence for the creation of the earth?

The earth was created ex nihilo; no evidence was generated to leave behind for study.

It's a truth that has to be taken by faith, and science can take a hike.

No, its an empty assertion without facts to back it up. Science deals with physical reality, not magic. As soon as you put magic in a discussion rationalty takes a back seat and everything is possible and therefore nothing is assured.

 

[AV1611VET]

I figured that'd be your assertion. I stand by for your Evidence of this 'fact'.

That's YOUR job, chief.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

That's YOUR job, chief.

In that case, I can safely discard the whole idea.

 

[mmksparbud]

Oh---bummer---Excuse me--I misread this-----I thought you were talking about new ways to use apples!!---I missed lunch!

 

[AV1611VET]

In that case, I can safely discard the whole idea.

Fair enough.

Are you also safely discarding the last five words of my challenge?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh---bummer---Excuse me--I misread this-----I thought you were talking about new ways to use apples!!---I missed lunch!

A real apple is the premise of my original challenge.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Fair enough.

Are you also safely discarding the last five words of my challenge?

well, of Course not. It can't be explained because your challenge is a foray into 'not' reality, whether it be hallucination, a vivid dream, hypnosis, an elaborate hoax, or some other deception of reality - I think a few of us have answered something to this effect already.

 

[AV1611VET]

well, of Course not. It can't be explained because your challenge is a foray into 'not' reality, whether it be hallucination, a vivid dream, hypnosis, an elaborate hoax, or some other deception of reality - I think a few of us have answered something to this effect already.

And which term puts it into that category you describe: "God" or "ex nihilo."

Or both?

 

[VirOptimus]

And which term puts it into that category you describe: "God" or "ex nihilo."

Or both?

I cant answer for him of course, but they are both just metaphysics and therefore the same as magic when discussing physical reality.

 

[quatona]

I can't because it didn't happen.

This answer is wrong as per the first sentence in his challenge.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

And which term puts it into that category you describe: "God" or "ex nihilo."

Or both?

Well, Both. As has been pointed out, I'd have a 'Brand Spankers' Ipad with a full-tilt warranty to boot. All the serial numbers check out as legit - but no evidence whatsoever that God was even there at all! I'm obviously off my carton by a tinnie or two, or Crazy. or Both. Given I have no evidence whatsoever that what happened, actually happened, I have to concede that I might've ingested too many magic mushrooms on this one, my friends are right to laugh at me.

It's important that my understanding of the Universe matches with reality. If an observation is made that isn't concordant with reality, then I have to investigate the reasons for the discrepancy. If it is verified my beliefs don't match with confirmed observations, then I have to discard that belief.

Easy.

EDIT: If God can hide every evidence that he exists, or that he has anything to do with reality, he only has himself to blame for giving our rational minds not only gross lack of evidence for his existence, but every evidence to the contrary.

 

[AV1611VET]

I cant answer for him of course, but they are both just metaphysics and therefore the same as magic when discussing physical reality.

As long as you refer to it as "magic," I doubt you'll ever fully understand.

It's interesting that I'm using scientific terminology, only to see you guys pluto it, then claim it's "just metaphysics" or an "hallucination."

 

[VirOptimus]

As long as you refer to it as "magic," I doubt you'll ever fully understand.

It's interesting that I'm using scientific terminology, only to see you guys pluto it, then claim it's "just metaphysics" or an "hallucination."

You use no science, you dont even use proper theology!

 

[AV1611VET]

... my friends are right to laugh at me.

People laughed at Jesus too and we're just as wrong.

It's important that my understanding of the Universe matches with reality. If an observation is made that isn't concordant with reality, then I have to investigate the reasons for the discrepancy. If it is verified my beliefs don't match with confirmed observations, then I have to discard that belief.

Easy.

Would I be correct then, if I assumed you're still investigating how we got our moon?

Or are you satisfied with calling consensus of opinion "reality" in this case?

EDIT: If God can hide every evidence that he exists, or that he has anything to do with reality, he only has himself to blame for giving our rational minds not only gross lack of evidence for his existence, but every evidence to the contrary.

We can't see gravity, yet we know it exists by observing its effects.

Are you turning your back on God because you can't see: time divided into BC/AD, Christian holidays, iconography, edifices, music, debates, and literature as evidence?

It sounds to me like you pick and choose what is real and what isn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

You use no science, you dont even use proper theology!

From Wikipedia:

Ex nihilo is a Latin a phrase meaning "out of nothing. It often appears in conjunction with the concept of creation, as in creatio ex nihilo, meaning "creation out of nothing"—chiefly in philosophical or theological contexts, but also occurs in other fields.

 

[VirOptimus]

From Wikipedia:

Ex nihilo is a Latin a phrase meaning "out of nothing. It often appears in conjunction with the concept of creation, as in creatio ex nihilo, meaning "creation out of nothing"—chiefly in philosophical or theological contexts, but also occurs in other fields.

Belive me, I'm very aware of the terms you use. It does in no way change my view of your "arguments".

Its all variants on "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". I.e. pointless and of no use either philosophicly or in theology.

 

[Nicky Blass]

Can anyone tell me what this thread is about? is it about magic and making things appear and disappear?

 

[VirOptimus]

Can anyone tell me what this thread is about? is it about magic and making things appear and disappear?

Pretty much.

 

[AV1611VET]

Belive me, I'm very aware of the terms you use. It does in no way change my view of your "arguments".

Its all variants on "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". I.e. pointless and of no use either philosophicly or in theology.

Fair enough.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[VirOptimus]

Fair enough.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Its more than opinion, its fact.