Muhammad is "Son of Man" in Bible?

  • Thread starter LittleLambofJesus
  • Start date

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
I wouldn't take it personally if I were you. We also doubt that an angel appeared to Joseph Smith and founded Mormonism. Well, most of us do, anyway.

Take a look at that one for yourself, and you will soon learn how it is possible to accept some revelation, and be distinctly wary of others. Read about this particular person, and understand, if you can, that my attitude towards Mohammed is pretty well the same as my attitude towards Joseph Smith.

In neither case has this anything to do with indecision. :)

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
If your cannot accept the possibility of angelic visitation, then your attitude towards Mary, whom some Christians said was the Mother of god, would be questioned?
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
If Moslems want to say that Mohammed was also a son of man, then that is fine with me; indeed he is. But he is not the one referred to in Scripture, because Scripture does not anywhere refer to Mohammed. It is totally indifferent to him, as if he never existed. Which is fine by most Christians, to be honest.

Sorry about that, Moslems, but it is the truth.
If I remember correctly, I discussed with you on Isaiah's so-called prophecy of Jesus and you never came back with an answer. But then again, I could not find any 'prophecies' from the OT that actually referred to Jesus.

Prove me wrong, please.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
You may think you can say this as a Moslem, but you do not realise what it is that you are saying. By suggesting that the crucifixion story may not be not true, you are saying that the whole of our faith may not be true.

Without the crucifixion, there is no redemption. Without the crucifixion the Incarnation is meaningless. Without the Incarnation, there is no Christianity.

This simply is not negotiable. Absolutely, 100% not.
That is why there is this forum for meaningful discussion.

Can you see this? And seeing this, can you also see how the Koran forbids this language? You are told to respect our faith, and respect our Scriptures. You are forbidden from denying them to this extent, and negating the whole of our faith. The best you can do, really, is to keep quiet and leave this to God.

Good luck with that.
In Islam, we cannot accept even an ounce of untruth. Honestly, I cannot see how I have step out of the proper decorum of discussing with Christians.

I do not believe in many of what you believe and I am here to discuss with you in earnest.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
It is certainly the case that Mohammed does not understand what Christianity is, or who Christ was. Whether he did this in order to attempt to destroy anything is a matter of debate, but certainly the Koran is deeply flawed in this matter.
I have this feeling that you think you know more about Christianity and Christ to even suggest that statement.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
Originally Posted by Islam_mulia
Joshua_Masquelier

I am sure you would agree with me that Jesus is NOT the only Son of God as mentioned in the Bible.

David was also a Son of God:
I will declare thee a decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. PSALMS 2.7

In fact, the bible speaks of dozens of Sons of God... even peacemakers are called sons of God.
I hate to say this, but your language here is distinctly unMoslem.
Maybe the TRUTH hurts but again I was only providing you with what is written in your holy book.


Here is the missing link for you: Christ is the Son of God, who by his death and resurrection takes away the sin of the world. By accepting him as our Lord, we become co-heirs with him of his kingdom, and we become the sons and daughters of the Most High. As David was, as Abraham was, as Moses was.

All 'sons of God' become so through Christ. He is born the Son of God, and we are adopted through him. This is why the Lord taught us to address God as, 'Our Father, who art in heaven.'
So, I am right to say Jesus is NOT the only Son of God?

I rest my case.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
The apostles of Christ were eyewitnesses to the truth of Jesus Christ as revealed in the New Testament.
In one way or another, every leader of a new faith has his witnesses. That does not prove the leader is true unless you prove he is not true.

Muhammed was not an eyewitness. He received a contradictory testimony from an angel 600 years later. We were warned to avoid a man such as this.
Or it could be that Muhammad (pbuh) received the true revelations and you just could not help accepting it.

2 Pet 1:16
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
Who said this and how do you prove he was saying the truth?
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
If your cannot accept the possibility of angelic visitation, then your attitude towards Mary, whom some Christians said was the Mother of god, would be questioned?

So, because I can discern true from false, you think I am incapable of seeing the truth? Interesting perspective.

If you want me to be blunt, rather than working it out for yourself, as I hoped you might, then I will.

From the point of view of mainstream Christainity, Mohammed is not a prophet. Not to Christians, or to the world, and possibly not at all. The best we can ever say (and not every Christian would say even this much) is that Mohammed is a prophet, of a kind, to the arabs, and then by extension to his own followers, and his faith is a distinctly arab one; a primitive mishmash deriving from Hindu, Jewish and Christian elements. He has nothing whatever to say to mainstream Judaism, to mainstream Christianity, nor even to those of a humanitarian focus wanting to find leaders of credibility, great morality and humanity, such as for example Gandhi. Gandhi gets a very high 9.5/10 from me, perhaps more. Mohammed would not score beyond 2 (although some of his followers would score far higher, in my view). Buddha, 8. Christ, 10.

This is exactly paralelled in Judaism. Christians claim Christ as a the Son of David and the Son of God. We say he is in the direct line of descent from Abraham. Jews on the other hand say he is nothing of the kind; he is not even a prophet.

To be honest, as a Christian I have a lot more sympathy for the Jewish position, that their Messiah is still awaited, than with the Moslem one, which is that our whole faith has to be denied, and Christ reduced to the level of a prophet, in order to receive honour. That kind of honour is no honour at all.

I do not find the message of the Koran convincing, not least because of the lifestyle and example of the man who composed it. And there I will draw a line, because I do not think any purpose is served in spelling out exactly why this is.

The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, and announced to her that she would bear a Son who would be the Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Whoever and whatever appeared to Mohammed did not have the knowledge of our faith that would necessarily follow from an angelic visitation and therefore his whole message is called into question; the evidence quite simply is against it, in the same way as the evidence for the 'angelic' message to Joseph Smith about the ancient Egyptians travelling to America and becoming the native Americans is called into question by this assertion being complete gibberish.

None of this prevents people from believing either, if they choose to do so. But it does prevent informed people of other faiths being able to suspend disbelief enough to be fooled in the same way.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
If I remember correctly, I discussed with you on Isaiah's so-called prophecy of Jesus and you never came back with an answer. But then again, I could not find any 'prophecies' from the OT that actually referred to Jesus.

Prove me wrong, please.

I have no interest in proving anything to anyone. If you want to find the truth, then you only have to read the Bible. If you do not want to find the truth, then you will never be able to see it.

You only have to read the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
That is why there is this forum for meaningful discussion.


In Islam, we cannot accept even an ounce of untruth. Honestly, I cannot see how I have step out of the proper decorum of discussing with Christians.

I do not believe in many of what you believe and I am here to discuss with you in earnest.

I accept that you are here to listen to what we have to say. Whether you will be able to hear it is another matter. :)
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
I have this feeling that you think you know more about Christianity and Christ to even suggest that statement.

If you mean, do I think I know more about Christ and my faith than Mohammed did, then yes, I do. I am not a theologian; far from it, but I certainly know what a Christian is, and what s/he is not. Mohammed did not, and the Koran does not, and by extension Moslems who rely on the Koran do not.

Similarly, if I were to rely only on what the Bible tells me of Judaism, I would NOT understand what Judaism was in the first century, or indeed what it is now. To find out about Judaism, I have to accept that the authorities in this matter are Jews, and that I must listen to what they have to say, and accept their lives, their history and their traditions as far greater authorities than ANY outside source, including 'angelic' ones.

Only those Moslems who take the trouble to learn by talking to Christians about what we actually believe, can actually come to understand our faith. They then don't need to agree with it, of course, but at least they will be rather better informed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
So, I am right to say Jesus is NOT the only Son of God?

I rest my case.

What case? Christ is the only Son of God; fully God and fully man; of one being with the Father, true God from true God, begotten not made.

The rest of us (Christians) are sons and daughters by adoption; we are fully human by nature, and divine/immortal only by adoption. Therefore, although legally we are the same, and have the same status, just as adopted children in a family have the same legal status as natural children, nonetheless the relationship we have with God is not the same as the relationship of Christ to God.
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
Who said this and how do you prove he was saying the truth?

God said it when Christ was baptised. We know he spoke the truth, because Christ died, and then rose again three days later. The resurrection is the proof for the divinity of Christ, if proof is needed.

So, now ask the same question of the Koran; who said it, and how do you prove he was saying the truth? To a Moslem, the answer is circular; it is true because it says it is.

Christians are unlikely to accept that kind of circularity, so we look at what it says of our faith, because this is what we know, and can measure from. The Koran falls short of understanding what we believe, and therefore we can conclude that it is flawed, contains error, and therefore whoever it is from, it is not from God. The suggestion that any errors it contains reflect errors or distortions in our faith are, frankly, insulting and without any foundation whatsoever.

The best we can conclude, is that the Koran is the product of Mohammed himself, because all the evidence is that this is the case.
 
Upvote 0

_JJM

Christian
Mar 4, 2010
862
53
✟8,801.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The rest of us (Christians) are sons and daughters by adoption; we are fully human by nature, and divine/immortal only by adoption. Therefore, although legally we are the same, and have the same status, just as adopted children in a family have the same legal status as natural children, nonetheless the relationship we have with God is not the same as the relationship of Christ to God.

Ephesians 1:4-6
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
From the point of view of mainstream Christainity, Mohammed is not a prophet.
If Christians accept Muhammad (pbuh) as a prophet of God, we will not have this discussion, will we? :)

Tell you what, I find your personal statements very Christian indeed. Why don't we discuss the status of Christ, you and I, so that we can learn from each other and maybe have a better understanding of Islam and Christianity.

Agree?
 
Upvote 0