(moved) United Church of Canada responds to atheist minister

[JackRT]

This is really part of the P.C cultural attitude which lifts up ecumenical tolerance above Christians Loving TRUTH, being faithful & defending the scriptures, God, Jesus & the gospel so that anyone can claim they are a Christian or be apart of an assembly and not be expected to adhere to a set of unifying Christian beliefs & Christian doctrines but can preach what the Bible warned of as doctrines of demons or attack truth. Seems now is the days of the falling away , where false teachers in Christianity are rampant, so not a big surprise this has lead to an atheist female leading a church - this is just one prime example of the falling away that the Lord Jesus foretold.

The minister referred to in this thread is Gretta Vosper. Here is just a brief comment of hers:

There is one factual error in the article. I am not a positive atheist, which means that I do not deny the existence of the god called God or any gods, for that matter. I couldn’t possibly know that. I’m an agnostic when it comes to the nature of reality. I am a negative atheist which means I see no proof for the god called God or any other gods. And were I to see reproducible proof as differentiated from the interpretation of someone’s experience, I would recant and believe in whatever god produced it. I appreciate this quote by a former clergy colleague, Jerry DeWitt: “Skepticism is my nature. Free Thought is my methodology. Agnosticism is my conclusion. Atheism is my opinion. Humanitarianism is my motivation.”

I agree with her and the gentleman she quotes and like her I am in love with the teaching and life of Jesus.

 

[Pedra]

If she were a non-realistic Christian AKA a Christian atheist I wouldn't have a problem with it.

BBC - Religion - Atheism: Types - Christian Atheism

The minister referred to in this thread is Gretta Vosper. Here is just a brief comment of hers:


I agree with her and the gentleman she quotes and like her I am in love with the teaching and life of Jesus.

"in love with the life and teaching of Jesus doesn't qualify her as a Pastor. But she is obviously does not love the Truth , it is the social gospel that she is "in love " with and that is not Jesus Gospel . She does not fit the Biblical requirements for being a Shepherd by her own admission. Sorry, I go by the Bible scripture - period, not doctrines of men. I grew up in a slack denomination that didn't preach the word but the words of men...or women and God nudged me out of there, & lead me to men who fear God & preach His word, thank the Lord!

 

[Radagast]

Another thread on this?

The UCC is not "under government regulation." They decided to let her stay, partly because she's not the only atheist minister they have. Their choice.

And you're reporting the 2015 version of the story, which is unhelpful. In 2018 they decided she could stay: Statement on the Rev. Gretta Vosper

There's a rather strange interview here:

 

[JackRT]

"in love with the life and teaching of Jesus doesn't qualify her as a Pastor.

I can't think of a better qualification and a major denomination in Canada agrees'

But she is obviously does not love the Truth

She obviously does and has the courage to stand for it

it is the social gospel that she is "in love " with and that is not Jesus Gospel

The gospels attest otherwise.

She does not fit the Biblical requirements for being a Shepherd by her own admission.

Her ministry attests otherwise. How much do you know of her ministry or her congregation?

 

[Pedra]

Another thread on this?

The UCC is not "under government regulation." They decided to let her stay, partly because she's not the only atheist minister they have. Their choice.

And you're reporting the 2015 version of the story, which is unhelpful. In 2018 they decided she could stay: Statement on the Rev. Gretta Vosper

There's a rather strange interview here:

He seems quite happy with the major contradictions that exists by calling themselves Christian when they don't agree with Christian teachings as given to us in the Bible. How do you love Jesus & the teachings of Jesus but don't believe in GOD the Father? therefore denying Jesus is God, denying His ability to save..... They are just kidding themselves ,I fear for their eternal souls.

 

[Pedra]

I can't think of a better qualification and a major denomination in Canada agrees'



She obviously does and has the courage to stand for it



The gospels attest otherwise.
Her ministry attests otherwise. How much do you know of her ministry or her congregation?

She has no ministry according to Christ Jesus who appointed the Apostles and set the standards. She was not called by GOD to be Pastor, if she was she would Know God. What she has, is a social work position, probably combination of a counselling job & is a motivational speaker who speaks of spiritual things without the power of GOD and without the Gospel of Jesus. No doubt there is not a hell in this woman's understanding too even though Jesus warned about many who would end up there. It's a world church not Christ's. I know that goes over like a lead balloon here in this place, but oh well, lol. The truth according to the Bible needs to be spoken boldly. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of GOD to save...." Rom1 :and that is not what this woman is preaching, or because it's obvious by her beliefs that she does not know Jesus Divinity or believe it.

 

[JackRT]

She has no ministry according to Christ Jesus who appointed the Apostles and set the standards. She was not called by GOD to be Pastor, if she was she would Know God. What she has, is a social work position, probably combination of a counselling job & is a motivational speaker who speaks of spiritual things without the power of GOD and without the Gospel of Jesus. No doubt there is not a hell in this woman's understanding too even though Jesus warned about many who would end up there. It's a world church not Christ's. I know that goes over like a lead balloon here in this place, but oh well, lol. The truth according to the Bible needs to be spoken boldly. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of GOD to save...." Rom1 :and that is not what this woman is preaching, or because it's obvious by her beliefs that she does not know Jesus Divinity or believe it.

That being your understanding, then I would advise you not to join her congregation.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

The minister referred to in this thread is Gretta Vosper. Here is just a brief comment of hers:


I agree with her and the gentleman she quotes and like her I am in love with the teaching and life of Jesus.

Still she denies the divinity and incarnation of Jesus Christ, denying that Christ is truly man and truly God, it's great she loves the teachings of Christ, yet why is she a priest, being a Agnostic? Why is a woman a priest at all?

 

[hedrick]

I looked at their constitution. They have doctrinal standards, but it wasn't clear that the constitution is set up to enforce them. They have disciplinary procedures, but they appear to be for offenses, not doctrinal violations. Clearly lots of people in the Church were (understandably) upset by an atheist minister, but it may be that there's basically a loophole in the constitution that doesn't allow them to do anything about it as long as the congregation is OK with it. There are many denominations with a congregational polity, where the national organization doesn't have the power to control their pastors.

 

[redleghunter]

I looked at their constitution. They have doctrinal standards, but it wasn't clear that the constitution is set up to enforce them. They have disciplinary procedures, but they appear to be for offenses, not doctrinal violations. Clearly lots of people in the Church were (understandably) upset by an atheist minister, but it may be that there's basically a loophole in the constitution that doesn't allow them to do anything about it as long as the congregation is OK with it. There are many denominations with a congregational polity, where the national organization doesn't have the power to control their pastors.

That’s interesting. Make rules don’t enforce them. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[hedrick]

That’s interesting. Make rules don’t enforce them. Nothing new under the sun.

Confessions aren’t always rules. Churches with congregational polity often have statements of faith, but they would have no way to stop a congregation from calling someone as a pastor.