(Moved) speaking in tongues

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Amen. Tongues is another word for languages. All languages are Earthly.
The following material has come from a recent post of mine within the Charismatic forum.

Due to the large amount of populist but dated material that has spoken on this subject over the years, it can be easy to believe that tongues were being practiced by the Greeks and by other religions, which is something that I accepted up until only a few years back as well.

When I started reading the books and articles by those who are at the forefront of Classic-Greek studies, both Christian and non-Christian, I then realised that most of what I had been reading was merely conjecture where some commentators merely had an axe to grind which is why they often repeated what are now deemed to be little more than old-wives-tales. I have included an article on this topic by Craig Keener (with footnotes) where his material appears to reflect the current state of knowledge on this topic.

Scholary books that address "Ecstatic" speech within Greco-Roman religions:

  • Aune, David E., Prophecy in Early Christianity and the Ancient Mediterranean World. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983.
  • Callan, Terrance., “Prophecy and Ecstasy in Greco-Roman Religion and in 1 Corinthians.” NovT 27 (2, 1985): 125–40.
  • Forbes, Christopher. , Prophecy and Inspired Speech in Early Christianity and Its Hellenistic Environment. WUNT 2. Reihe, 75. Tübingen:J. C. B. Mohr, 1995. Repr., Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1997
  • Levison, John R., “Two Types of Ecstatic Prophecy according to Philo.” SPhilA 6 (1994):83–89.
  • Parke, H. W. Sibyls and Sibylline Prophecy in Classical Antiquity. Edited by B. C. McGing. New York: Routledge, 1988.
  • Rabe, “Prophecy.” Rabe, Virgil W. “Origins of Prophecy.” BASOR 221 (February 1976): 125–28.
  • Wilson, Robert R. “Prophecy and Ecstasy: A Reexamination.” JBL 98 (3, 1979): 321–37.
  • Williams, Cyril G. “Ecstaticism in Hebrew Prophecy and Christian Glossolalia.” SR/SR 3 (4, 1973): 320–38.
____________________________

Acts: An Exegetical Commentary, Craig S. Keener 2012 pgs. 809-11

iv. Greek Paganism

Unfortunately for our quest, most ancient parallels seem less compelling than the stronger (and probably often somewhat derivative) modern parallels sometimes proposed. Philostratus claims that Apollonius understands all languages without having studied them, because he learned the (Pythagorean) language of silence (Vit. Apoll. 1.19, 2l).264 This third-century attribution of dramatic linguistic powers to a mystic sage is not, however, duplicated in historical sources for individuals or groups.

Egyptian religious tradition focused on sacred language; since hieroglyphs were considered sacred by the Roman period, understanding such hieroglyphs mattered little, compared with simply reproducing them in any variety of combinations.265 Greek letters could be combined in the same incomprehensible, magical way, probably drawing from the example of the Egyptian ritual tradition.266 Thus Lucian tells of a false prophet who uttered senseless syllables in a language “like Hebrew or Phoenician/’ making people think he had magical powers (Alex. 13).267 It is possible, though not proven, that these practices may have influenced the compositions of angelic names in the later Jewish mystic texts.268

Many scholars think that the early Christian experience of tongues originated in such magical syllables or in unintelligible ecstatic speech, attested in both Egypt and Greece.269 The extant early Christian understandings of the experience, however (in Luke and Paul), do not reflect this background, and the experience probably (as Luke suggests) initially predates the expansion of Christianity into a Diaspora setting where such a background could make sense. At best, then, this context sheds light on how some Gentile Christians may have understood the experience.

Although many scholars have accepted other scholars’ proposed parallels, careful investigation of the claims limits the concrete values of these parallels. Supposed parallels between tongues (with interpretation, as in Paul) and Delphic incoherency translated by a prophet270 misunderstand the nature of the Delphic experience; the Pythia spoke ambiguous, obscure oracles, not incoherently (see comment on Acts 16:16).271 Her supposed glossolalia is “a product of modern scholarly imagination,”272 an example of an early Christian idea now read back into its environment. Mystery cults offer no parallels to tongues.273

As suggested above, once the other evidence has been weighed, the magical papyri may offer the most concrete parallels for unintelligible speech.274 Yet the strings of nonsense syllables found in magical papyri are mostly from the third century or later; more decisively, they are incantations and invocations, not understood as genuine language, not revelatory, and not inviting “interpretations.”275 Appeal to gnostic276 and Montanist “tongues” would be anachronistic,277 but there are no clear parallels there anyway.278 Greco-Roman religion thus offers no sufficient explanation for “tongues”—as a phenomenon understood as inspired “languages”—such as we find it in our earliest Christian sources.279

Ecstatic speech and behavior, by contrast, were a common element in ancient prophetism and many forms of worship. Prophets and other divinely possessed persons were thought to act in ways normally considered insane.280 Certainly, the possession trance described for the Pythian priestess fits here (e.g., Lucan C.W. 5.97-101); this also applies to Sibylline prophecy (Virg. Aen. 6.77-102) and to (not usually prophetic) Bacchic frenzy (Eurip. Bacch. 298-99). In many ancient conceptions, inspiration displaced the mind.281 (See further the excursus on prophecy at Acts 2:17.)

Ecstatic experience appears in Hellenistic Judaism as well.282 Thus, in some Hellenistic Jewish works,283 notably in Philo,284 inspiration displaces mental activity, as in Greek mantic activity. Whether early Christian tongues were “ecstatic” depends on how one defines “ecstatic”285 and on ones further conclusions about the nature of ancient Christian tongues (which, like modern tongues, may have varied in form from one church and individual to another). Paul does allow that tongues do not come from the mind (1 Cor 14:14)286 yet expects (in contrast to pagan possession trance) the individual believer to maintain control of responses (14:32); also distinctively, for Christian (in contrast to pagan Greek) prophecy, he appears to insist on the need for an accompanying rational component (14:2-3).287 If Christian prophecy differed from many pagan analogues at this point, we cannot generalize about tongues when we lack sufficient clear pagan claims about speech inspired in other languages.

Tongues speaking was thus a highly unusual phenomenon outside Christian circles in the first century. Further, tongues are one of the most distinctive aspects of the Pentecost narrative; whatever light maybe shed on them from later Jewish traditions, Lukes prophetically inspired praise in languages unknown to the speaker288 does not appear in the OT. (Prophetically inspired praise is common enough, as noted above, but at least in the sources dated securely before Lukes writing, the inspiration always extends to ones own language, not, by a linguistic miracle, to languages one has not learned.) Tongues came, then, in a sense, unexpectedly.289 But in exceptional circumstances, Gods Spirit could move people to speak under inspiration even when they did not desire to do so (1 Sam 19:20, and so, from Israelite history, one could anticipate, in a sense, that some such unexpected experience could occur (also Acts 10:46).

___________________________________

Footnotes:

264. In Vit. Apoll. 1.20, Philostratus claims that Arabs purport to understand birds’ language and omens.

265. Frankfurter, Religion in Egypt, 254; cf Engels, Roman Corinth, 105 (on Apul. Metam. 11).

266. Frankfurter, Religion in Egypt, 255-56. On the problem of diglossia among Greeks, see Browning, “Greek Diglossia.”

267. Boring, Berger, and Colpe, Commentary, 310; also in Grant, Religions, 96; cf. similarly Xen. Eph. An- thia 1.5; the Magus in Lucian Men. 9. Forbes, Prophecy, 162-64, also shows that this example fits the broader magical usage (comparing Lucian Men. 7-9; see esp. Men. 9).

268. Alexander, “Introduction,” 234 (citing mystics’ speech during trances as in Hekalot Rabbati 18:4); cf. Scholem, Gnosticism, 33.

269. Reitzenstein, Religions, p. 300; Moffatt, First Corinthians, 208,214; Mills, “Utterances and Glossolalia”; van Halsema, “Betrouwbaarheid”; Johnson, Acts, 42 (citing Cic. Div. 1.32.70-71; Plut. Obsol. 14 and 40, Mor. 417C, 432CF; Apul. Metam. 8.27); cf. Aune, Prophecy, 199; Klauck, Context, 230; discussion in Frenschkowski, “Zauberworte”; Pliny E. N.H. 28.4.20.

270. E.g., Moffatt, First Corinthians, 208; Spittler, Corinthian Correspondence, 68; Ruble, “Tongues,” 16; cf. Hering, First Corinthians, 128; Dormeyer and Galindo, Apostelgeschichte, 42.

271. Forbes, Prophecy, 103-19, esp. 104-6 for terminology and 107-19 for the phenomena; Aune, Prophecy, 31; Fontenrose, Delphic Oracle; Sourvinou-Inwood, “Delphic oracle,” 445; Witherington, Corinthians, 54-55; cf. Maurizio, “Pythias Role.”

272. Aune, “Magic,” 1551.

273. See Forbes, Prophecy, 124-48; Ruble, “Tongues,” 15.

274. Williams, “Glossolalia as Phenomenon”; cf. Smith, “Pauline Worship.”

275. Forbes, Prophecy, 153-54; Aune, “Magic,” 1550-51. On these voces magicae, see, e.g., Aune, “Amulets,” 114; Rives, Religion, 163 (on 164 noting that some also contained “garbled forms of genuine Egyptian or Hebrew words”).

276. E.g., Wire, Prophets, 141-42 (tentatively comparing Allogenes 53.36; Zost. 52.17; 118.18-21; 127.1-5).

277. As are some modern parallels (to modern glossolalia) offered, some of which are closer than others (e.g., Couture, “Glossolalic et mantra,” compares Hindu mantras, though noting differences); cf. apparently analogous possession phenomena today in non-Christian religions (Martinez and Wetli, “Santeria”).

278. The few examples of heavenly languages in later Gnosticism are not applied to people (Forbes, Prophecy, 156-60), and no ancient source associates tongues with Montanism (160-62). The primary analogy with Montanism involves its prophetic character (see, e.g., Kim, “Montanism,” who argues that its detractors misrepresented it).

279. Forbes, Prophecy, 103-65 passim; Aune, “Magic,” 1549-51; Winter, Left Corinth, 181; Turner, “Experience,” 30-31.

280. E.g., Ovid Metam. 2.640. See further Otto, Dionysus, 94, 97, 144.

281. Ael. Arist. Def Or. 34-35, §1 ID; see further Graf, “Ecstasy,” 800; Aune, Prophecy, 47; see comment on Acts 26:24.

282. E.g., Pearson, Terminology, 43. See further discussion of ecstasy in the excursus on prophecy at Acts 2:17-18.

283. See, e.g., Sib. Or. 12.295-96 (third century c.e.); on L.A.B., see Pinero, “Mediterranean View.” But even the rabbis denied that prophecy was from one’s own mind (e.g., Num. Rab. 18:12), just as Philo did (e.g., Spec. Laws 1.65; 4.49).

284. See, e.g., Horsley, Corinthians, 181 (comparing Plato Phaedr. 243E-245C with Philo Heir 259,264-65; QG 3.9; Mos. 2.188-91); Martin, Body, 97-100; Garland, 1 Corinthians, 638-39. This fits Philo’s Hellenistic anthropology (Dillon, Middle Platonists, 174); though some doubt that Philo embraced the mantic view fully (Burkhardt, “Inspiration der Schrift”; but Philo may have believed in various forms, Winston, “Types of Prophecy”; Levison, “Types of Prophecy”); Philo often uses it as an analogy for experience of the sublime (e.g., Creation 71; Drunkenness 146).

285. See also Turner, “Experience,” 31-32.

286. Isaacs, Spirit, 75, compares this with Hellenistic ecstasy.

287. With, e.g., Collins, Corinthians, 501. Some knew and approved of “controlled” inspiration (e.g., Dio Chrys. Or. 1.56), and some later Christian leaders expected this (Chrys. Horn. 1 Cor. 29.2; Severian of Gabala in Pauluskommentare 262 [Bray, Corinthians, 118]).

288. The phenomenon in both Luke and Paul (with Turner, “Experience,” 32).

289. Cf. Bruner, Theology, 164 (though applying this prescriptively, which may not be Luke’s intent; cf. 1 Cor 12:31; 14:1,5).
 
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swordsman1

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Paul leaves absolutely no doubt that when we pray in the Spirit (tongues), that the Holy Spirit will always be speaking to the Father and that he will do so within inarticulate or Angelic tongues as per 1Cor 13:1.

First thing to say is that praying in the Spirit does not necessarily mean praying in tongues. You can (and should) pray in the Spirit in English:

Eph 6:18 "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people."

If praying in the Spirit was tongues then every time we pray we should only pray in tongues - "on all occasions" it says. And how can you make requests for the Lord's people if you don't know what you are saying? Praying in the Spirit is simply praying with the Spirit's leading. Same as we walk in the Spirit, and worship in the Spirit.


Secondly, in 1 Cor 13:1 Paul does not say he speaks in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically to make the point that having even the most ultimate form of the gift is worthless with without love. If you look at the context of that verse it is obvious what Paul means. This verse forms one of 5 parallel statements to illustrate the superiority of love over the spiritual gifts:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and
if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and
if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Paul doesn't say he did any of those things. Each of them is an IF statement. Paul is saying that even if he possessed spiritual gifts to an impossibly superlative degree, but not have love, it would be to no avail. It is quite obvious that in each of these statements Paul is using exaggerated figures of speech to make his point.

Did Paul really have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he literally knew ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge. ie was he was omniscient? Obviously not.

Did Paul really have the gift of faith to such a degree that he could literally move mountains? No.

Did Paul really have the gift of giving to such a degree that he literally gave ALL his possessions to the poor and made himself destitute? No.

Did Paul literally give his own body to be burned? No.

And neither did he literally speak in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically. None of those parallel statements are meant to be taken literally.

There is only one type of tongues described in scripture - foreign human languages as defined in Acts 2:4-11. Nowhere is it redefined as an angelic language or anything else.

When we view Paul’s writings we see that he realises that when we pray in the Spirit that no man will ever be able to understand what is being said and that the Spirits intercessory prayer and praise will always be directed toward the Father (1Cor 14:2).

1Cor 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

It doesn't say "no man will ever be able to understand". It says "no one understands", plain present tense. And the context of 1 Cor 14 is the local church. The reason that no one in the Corinthian church understands is because the language spoken was unfamiliar to them. Only God, who knows all languages, understood what was said. If someone spoke in Swahili in your church nobody would understand that either.
 
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FredVB

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Job8 said:
Modern tongues is primarily babbling.

It is basically this distinction to note. The miraculous occurrence with the gift of tongues was for real, where other languages were spoken that others who understood those other languages understood, this only happened from the activity of the Spirit of God. The ecstatic "speech" that is not something those speaking or any who hear it understand anything from was an occurrence among prechristian pagan practices, it continued on during Christian times, without the Spirit's gift of tongues being confused for that, and cults today have such practice with it called tongues. Practice like this is distinct as such even among those who are practicing Christians unless it is other languages that are spoken that others knowing them can understand. And praying in the Spirit and with understanding should be done, praying in that way each time, and it is one thing, not separate ways of praying, with understanding separate from what is in the Spirit.
 
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Kiterius

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Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think

A few people do have the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues - significantly less than those who claim they do.
 
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Veritas238

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It is basically this distinction to note. The miraculous occurrence with the gift of tongues was for real, where other languages were spoken that others who understood those other languages understood, this only happened from the activity of the Spirit of God. The ecstatic "speech" that is not something those speaking or any who hear it understand anything from was an occurrence among prechristian pagan practices, it continued on during Christian times, without the Spirit's gift of tongues being confused for that, and cults today have such practice with it called tongues. Practice like this is distinct as such even among those who are practicing Christians unless it is other languages that are spoken that others knowing them can understand. And praying in the Spirit and with understanding should be done, praying in that way each time, and it is one thing, not separate ways of praying, with understanding separate from what is in the Spirit.

I think some of the confusion today is the idea that all tongues have to be understood by another human or else it is not tongues, which simply is not true. In fact, there are tongues that man speaks which no man can understand, but if no man can understand them like the bible says, then what language is it? Most people who have the gift of tongues understand this to be or call this "heavenly" or "angelic tongues," where its application is used during prayer and worship and not through prophesy which would require an interpreter.
 
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Biblicist

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It is basically this distinction to note. The miraculous occurrence with the gift of tongues was for real, where other languages were spoken that others who understood those other languages understood, this only happened from the activity of the Spirit of God. The ecstatic "speech" that is not something those speaking or any who hear it understand anything from was an occurrence among prechristian pagan practices, it continued on during Christian times, without the Spirit's gift of tongues being confused for that, and cults today have such practice with it called tongues.
Up until maybe five years back I used to believe that the "prechristian" or Greco-Roman religions used to practice some of demonic tongues; now I did not believe this due to any factual knowledge but merely because I had heard it so often that I uncritically believed this old-wives tale to be true. It seems that we can all easily fall prey to believing certain things to be true if we hear them being repeated over and over.

If you go back to my post #61 I have provided a number of technical resources that can be checked at an appropriate Christian college library along with a brief summary on this issue by Craig Keener.

Contrary to what the pamphleteers would have us believe, there is absolutely no support for "demonic tongues", neither within Greco-Roman religious practices or elsewhere; as I said, it is nothing more than an old-wives tale that gets bandied around from time to time.
 
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FredVB

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Veritas238 said:
I think some of the confusion today is the idea that all tongues have to be understood by another human or else it is not tongues, which simply is not true. In fact, there are tongues that man speaks which no man can understand, but if no man can understand them like the bible says, then what language is it? Most people who have the gift of tongues understand this to be or call this "heavenly" or "angelic tongues," where its application is used during prayer and worship and not through prophesy which would require an interpreter.

It is as post #62 says, one walking into a gathering of believers where a foreign tongue was being spoken would not recognize what was being said, it would be unknown then, but one who knew the language there would recognize and understand it.

The gift of tongues is only with definition shown in Acts 2 to describe it, as foreign speech that the speaker doesn't himself speak.

"Angelic language" is mentioned in a hyperbolic phrase: even if he could speak in such a thing, if it were to exist, it would not profit anything. It is not a dogmatic statement that angels have their own language.

Biblicist said:
Up until maybe five years back I used to believe that the "prechristian" or Greco-Roman religions used to practice some of demonic tongues; now I did not believe this due to any factual knowledge but merely because I had heard it so often that I uncritically believed this old-wives tale to be true. It seems that we can all easily fall prey to believing certain things to be true if we hear them being repeated over and over.

If you go back to my post #61 I have provided a number of technical resources that can be checked at an appropriate Christian college library along with a brief summary on this issue by Craig Keener.

Contrary to what the pamphleteers would have us believe, there is absolutely no support for "demonic tongues", neither within Greco-Roman religious practices or elsewhere; as I said, it is nothing more than an old-wives tale that gets bandied around from time to time.

I haven't said it was demonic tongues being practiced, but there has been ecstatic speech and there is with it being called tongues among Mormons and religious cults. If the true gospel of Christ with what is essential is promoted with it, fine. But it is bad if what is practiced is distraction from it in any way.
 
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Biblicist

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It is as post #62 says, one walking into a gathering of believers where a foreign tongue was being spoken would not recognize what was being said, it would be unknown then, but one who knew the language there would recognize and understand it.
As Paul has gone to great length within 1Cor 14 detailing how man can never understand what the Holy Spirit is saying to the Father, beginning with (v.2) the Holy Spirit always speaks to God and never to man and that no one understands what the Holy Spirit is saying, then we know that no one within a local Christian assembly, be they a member or a visitor (no matter how many languages that they may know) will be able to understand what the Spirit is saying.

The gift of tongues is only with definition shown in Acts 2 to describe it, as foreign speech that the speaker doesn't himself speak.
All we know from Acts 2 is that the Holy Spirit is the agent of tongues and that when he speaks in a public forum, be it on the unique and singular event of the Day of Pentecost or within the congregational setting, that he will always direct his speech to the Father and that it will be in words of praise and adoration. This is what occurred on the Day of Pentecost and it how Paul describes tongues in 1Cor 14.

How can you suggest that Acts 2 is the only definition of tongues? This is a strange thing to say particularly when we compare the mere three verses of Acts 2 (being 3, 4 & 8) that speak directly on tongues with the detailed information found within 1Cor 12, 13 & 14? Without the three chapters of First Corinthians we would be at a virtual loss to understand the function of tongues let alone with how we are to employ tongues within the congregational setting. We would certainly not realise that when we are to "pray in the Spirit' that this is the same as tongues.

"Angelic language" is mentioned in a hyperbolic phrase: even if he could speak in such a thing, if it were to exist, it would not profit anything. It is not a dogmatic statement that angels have their own language.
You might want to check out the following links where I addressed the question of 1Cor 13:1-2 if it was constructed as either a unit of hyperbole or as a set of conditional hypothesis link link.

Of the eight things that Paul referred to we can tell that his speech was not hyperbole but a set of conditional hypothetical statements that were being conditioned by either love or by a lack of love. Paul could certainly speak in human languages (Latin, Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic) and in the tongues of Angels. He certainly knew all knowable mysteries (1Cor 4:1), has all revealed knowledge where Paul even says that the Romans had "all [revealed] knowledge". Paul also has enough faith to remove the obstacles that are in his way and due to his often impoverished state we know that he did not store up any wealth. No one would ever doubt that Paul had not "given over his body to hardship". Most importantly, Paul's reference to prophecy, which is "If I have prophecy" (not all prophecy) quickly removes any suggestion of hyperbolic speech as we all know that Paul regularly prophesied.

So Paul is contrasting all these things with love, where he (along with the Corinthians and ourselves), that no matter how we may exhibit these 8 aspects, that unless we are operating in love that we do not gain anything; Paul does not say that the operations of the Spirit (tongues and prophecy) are useless but merely that we will not gain anything.


I haven't said it was demonic tongues being practiced, but there has been ecstatic speech and there is with it being called tongues among Mormons and religious cults. If the true gospel of Christ with what is essential is promoted with it, fine. But it is bad if what is practiced is distraction from it in any way.
You may have not used the term demonic tongues in reference to the Mormons and various religious cults but if it were possible for groups that did not have the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues, then the only source of such tongues for these groups would be with Satan; though we have no examples from either the Scriptures or from history that has shown that Satan or demons can speak in tongues.

It would be possible for those who are demonically possessed to be in some form of trance or ecstatic state to appear to be speaking in tongues but even here from what has been observed over the years, which also includes that of the various early Greek religions, that such people did not speak in other tongues but in distortions of their own language.

As for the Mormons, they have made no formal claims that they speak in Biblical tongues as they only claim that their so called “gift of tongues” merely helps their missionaries to quickly learn foreign languages while they are in their training colleges.
 
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swordsman1

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As Paul has gone to great length within 1Cor 14 detailing how man can never understand what the Holy Spirit is saying to the Father, beginning with (v.2) the Holy Spirit always speaks to God and never to man and that no one understands what the Holy Spirit is saying, then we know that no one within a local Christian assembly, be they a member or a visitor (no matter how many languages that they may know) will be able to understand what the Spirit is saying.

You seem to have a habit of putting words into Paul's mouth. He doesn't say 'man can never understand', he says 'no one understands' in the context of Corinthian church meetings. In Chapter 14 Paul is specifically addressing the problem that was occurring in the Corinthian church, namely that some people were speaking in a language that no one in the congregation could understand. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek congregation then it is no surprise that no one understood.

How can you suggest that Acts 2 is the only definition of tongues? This is a strange thing to say particularly when we compare the mere three verses of Acts 2 (being 3, 4 & 8) that speak directly on tongues with the detailed information found within 1Cor 12, 13 & 14?

Acts 2 is the only description in scripture of what tongues actually is. In 1 Corinthians Paul goes to great lengths to correct the Corinthians misuse of the gift in their meetings, but nowhere does he give us a detailed description of what the gift actually is (unlike Acts 2).

You might want to check out the following links where I addressed the question of 1Cor 13:1-2 if it was constructed as either a unit of hyperbole or as a set of conditional hypothesis link link.

Of the eight things that Paul referred to we can tell that his speech was not hyperbole but a set of conditional hypothetical statements that were being conditioned by either love or by a lack of love.

Paul's five conditional IF statements in 1 Cor 13:1-3 were both hypothetical (they were imagined scenarios, not things he actually did) AND hyperbole (the imagined scenarios were wildly exaggerated examples of each gift) - to make the point that even having spiritual gifts to the highest conceivable degree would be worthless without love:

⦁ If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
⦁ If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and
⦁ if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And
⦁ if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and
⦁ if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
Tongues, even to the degree of speaking the language of angels; the gift of prophecy even to the degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge; the gift of faith even to the degree of removing mountains; the gift of giving even to the degree of giving up ALL your possessions and even your own life - are all to no avail without love. None of those exaggerated hypothetical examples represent the normal operation of those gifts.
 
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Biblicist

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You seem to have a habit of putting words into Paul's mouth. He doesn't say 'man can never understand', he says 'no one understands' in the context of Corinthian church meetings. In Chapter 14 Paul is specifically addressing the problem that was occurring in the Corinthian church, namely that some people were speaking in a language that no one in the congregation could understand. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek congregation then it is no surprise that no one understood.
This certainly put a smile on my face, where you begin by saying that I am "putting words in Paul's mouth" and you then quickly deny that Paul compiled his letter for the universal Church down through all the ages.

In both First and Second Corinthians Paul makes the point of not only addressing the various Corinthian congregations but in 1Cor 12:1 we find that he has addressed his letter to the entire church;
  • 1Cor 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
  • 2Cor 1:1 . . . To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:
So, in First Corinthians Paul has not only addressed his Epistle to Corinth but to the Christians who are "everywhere", which means not just in Corinth, the Peloponnese or within the wider Roman Province of Achaia but to wherever (and whenever) Christians may be.This makes sense as the issues that Paul is addressing within Corinth are not only applicable to the Church of Paul's time but also with the Church of all ages including our time period as well.

In Second Corinthians Paul appears to narrow his Epistle to the Churches within the Roman Province of Achaia, which includes not only the various Corinthian congregations but also those within the Peloponnese Peninsula and wider Achaia which includes Athens and the rest of Southern Greece - so a very wide audience indeed!

As for "some people were speaking in a language that no one in the congregation could understand" this can be quickly dismissed as Paul has already told us that no one (within any congregation of any time period) will be able to understand what the Spirit is saying to the Father. If it were possible that the Holy Spirit would speak in known human languages to the Father then there would be no need for an interpreter; in most cases, as the larger congregations around Corinth and the Diolkos ship tramway were highly multicultural as this region was at the center of the crossroads to the Roman Empire, then the Holy Spirit could easily choose to speak in a language that someone knew, but of course he does not speak in known human languages which Paul goes to some pain to detail within 1Cor 14.

Acts 2 is the only description in scripture of what tongues actually is. In 1 Corinthians Paul goes to great lengths to correct the Corinthians misuse of the gift in their meetings, but nowhere does he give us a detailed description of what the gift actually is (unlike Acts 2).
Okay, your at it again; how can maybe the three direct verses of Acts 2 compare to the passages within 1Cor 12 and 13 along with Paul's heavy discourse on tongues throughout chapter 14? I have no doubt that even you realise that you are pushing the impossible.

Paul's five conditional IF statements in 1 Cor 13:1-3 were both hypothetical (they were imagined scenarios, not things he actually did) AND hyperbole (the imagined scenarios were wildly exaggerated examples of each gift) - to make the point that even having spiritual gifts to the highest conceivable degree would be worthless without love:

⦁ If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
⦁ If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and
⦁ if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And
⦁ if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and
⦁ if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
Tongues, even to the degree of speaking the language of angels; the gift of prophecy even to the degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge; the gift of faith even to the degree of removing mountains; the gift of giving even to the degree of giving up ALL your possessions and even your own life - are all to no avail without love. None of those exaggerated hypothetical examples represent the normal operation of those gifts.
It seems that you still do not understand the difference between hypothetical speech and hyperbole, or is this by choice?

I mentioned a few weeks back that I will provide a more detailed breakdown of 1Cor 13 which will help you (and others) to obtain a better grasp of Paul's teachings; initially I had three pages ready but the study gained my interest more than I anticipated which saw me spending some time at the library of a sizable Christian college where I was able to scan chapters 12, 13 & 14 of a number of books that I did not own. As I need to undertake a third visit to this library it will be a few weeks before I can compile all the data, which has grown from the initial three pages to well over 30 pages, which I understand I will be able to post as a PDF file.

The following 32 scholars (and 30 books) are what I am working with but as I need at least five more commentaries that I deem to be important I will have to wait until I can get there sometime next week.

The PDF (presuming that it posts successfully) has been constructed as a study resource which means that those who want to take a more indepth look into 1Cor 13 will be able to use the technical resources that I have quoted, and quoted in some length.


1. 1 Corinthians, Moffat (1938)
2. The First Epistle to the Corinthians, Grosheide (1953)
3. The Letters to the Corinthians, William Barclay (1956)
4. The First Epistle to the Corinthians, C.K. Barrett (1971)
5. 1 Corinthians, F.F. Bruce (1971)
6. Understanding Spiritual Gifts, Robert L. Thomas (1978) [Cessationist]
7. Keep in Step with the Spirit, J.I. Packer (1984)
8. 1 Corinthians, Leon Morris (1985) p.175
9. 1 Corinthians, David Prior (1985) p.228
10. 1 Corinthians, Kenneth L. Chafin (1985) [Cessationist]
11. 1 Corinthians, Gordon D. Fee
a. 1 Corinthians, Gordon D. Fee (1987)
b. Gospel and Spirit: Issues in New Testament Hermeneutics, Gordon D. Fee (1991)
c. God’s Empowering Presence, Gordon D. Fee (1994)
d. Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, Gordon D. Fee (1996)
e. 1 Corinthians, Gordon D. Fee (2011) A revision of his 1987 commentary
12. Showing the Spirit: A Theological exposition of 1 Corinthians 12 – 14, D.A. Carson (1987)
13. The Gift of Prophecy: In the New Testament and Today, Wayne Grudem (1988)
14. 1 Corinthians, Simon J. Kistemaker (1993) p.452-53 [Cessationist]
15. Conflict & Community in Corinth: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ben Witherington III (1995)
16. The Corinthian Body, Dale B. Martin (1995)
17. Prophecy and Inspired Speech in Early Christianity and its Hellenistic Environment, Christopher Forbes (1995)
18. 1 Corinthians, Richard A. Horsley (1998)
19. 1 Corinthians, Marion L. Soards (1999) p.282
20. 1 Corinthians, Paul Barnett (2000)
21. 1 Corinthians, Anthony C. Thiselton
a. 1 Corinthians, Anthony C. Thiselton (2000)
b. 1 Corinthians: A Shorter Exegetical & Pastoral Commentary, Thiselton (2006)
c. The Holy Spirit – In Biblical Teaching, through the Centuries, and Today, Thiselton (2013)
d. A Shorter Exegetical Guide to the Holy Spirit, Thiselton (2016)​
22. After Paul Left Corinth, Bruce Winter (2001)
23. Speaking in Tongues: The New Testament Evidence in Context, Gerald Hovenden (2002)
24. 1 Corinthians, David E. Garland (2003) p.611
25. 1 Corinthians, Paul Barnett (2004) p.243
26. 1 Corinthians, Alan F. Johnson (2004) pp.243-44
27. Filled with the Spirit, John R. Levison (2009)
28. First Corinthians, Ward B. Powers (2009) [Strong cessationist]
29. 1 Corinthians, Roy E. Ciampa // Brian S. Rosner (2010)
30. The Tongues of Angels, John C. Poirier (2010)
31. Paul Through Mediterranean Eyes, Kenneth E. Bailey (2011)
32. 1 Corinthians, Mark Taylor (2014) [Cessationist]​
 
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Sammy-San

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You're going to get wildly different answers here from different kinds of people... I am charismatic, so I say it's real. It's definitely supported scripturally. You belong to the Pentecostal faith, your profile says. What is making you question something that is such a given among Pentecostals?

Isn't speaking in tongues an illusion?
 
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swordsman1

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This certainly put a smile on my face, where you begin by saying that I am "putting words in Paul's mouth" and you then quickly deny that Paul compiled his letter for the universal Church down through all the ages.

In both First and Second Corinthians Paul makes the point of not only addressing the various Corinthian congregations but in 1Cor 12:1 we find that he has addressed his letter to the entire church;
  • 1Cor 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
  • 2Cor 1:1 . . . To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:
So, in First Corinthians Paul has not only addressed his Epistle to Corinth but to the Christians who are "everywhere", which means not just in Corinth, the Peloponnese or within the wider Roman Province of Achaia but to wherever (and whenever) Christians may be.This makes sense as the issues that Paul is addressing within Corinth are not only applicable to the Church of Paul's time but also with the Church of all ages including our time period as well.

It seems you have made the mistake of assuming that 'together with all those everywhere' (as the NIV translates 1 Cor 1:2) is extending the addressee to include not only the Corinthians but all churches universally. If you are correct in your supposition does that mean all churches everywhere are guilty of abuse of the Lord's table, sexual immorality, creating divisive factions, taking fellow believers to court, opposing Paul's authority, etc. etc? Of course not. Anyone who has made even the most cursory of studies into this epistle cannot fail to notice that the entire letter is one of correcting a series of errors specific to the Corinthians. And their misuse of the gift of tongues in 1 Cor 14 is no exception. The elders of the church in Corinth had obviously sent word to Paul that during meetings people were speaking in tongues in languages that nobody in the congregation understood and sought his advice. So Paul begins the chapter by spelling out the problem - "anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, indeed no one understands them". Paul is stating the obvious - when someone speaks in an unrecognized tongue no one in the congregation understands, only God who knows all languages understands. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language.

Of course, seeing as Paul's letter is included in the canon, also means that the universal church as a whole can learn the lessons of the Corinthians and not repeat the same mistakes themselves.

As to your idea that 1 Cor 1:2 is extending the addressees of the letter, if you had taken a closer look at the passage you quoted you would have seen what lies immediately before your proof text: "called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul's "together" is not extending the addressees, but telling the Corinthians they are called to be God's people along with all who call on the name of our Lord. Admittedly the comma the NIV has inserted can catch out the unwary - in which case the other translations of this verse might help you to understand this verse better:

ESV To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

RSV To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

NASB To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

NKJV To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


If it were possible that the Holy Spirit would speak in known human languages to the Father then there would be no need for an interpreter; in most cases, as the larger congregations around Corinth and the Diolkos ship tramway were highly multicultural as this region was at the center of the crossroads to the Roman Empire, then the Holy Spirit could easily choose to speak in a language that someone knew, but of course he does not speak in known human languages which Paul goes to some pain to detail within 1Cor 14.

Of course an interpreter would be needed. How else would the congregation be edified? You seem to be forgetting that the Corinthians met in small groups in peoples houses (as scripture makes clear). If someone was speaking in a Persian tongue in a small Greek congregation how else would they understand what was said?


Okay, your at it again; how can maybe the three direct verses of Acts 2 compare to the passages within 1Cor 12 and 13 along with Paul's heavy discourse on tongues throughout chapter 14? I have no doubt that even you realise that you are pushing the impossible.

Perhaps you could show us then, out of 'Paul's heavy discourse on tongues throughout chapter 14', exactly where he gives us a detailed redefinition of what tongues exactly is, that overrides the detailed description given in Acts 2:4-11?


It seems that you still do not understand the difference between hypothetical speech and hyperbole, or is this by choice?

I think everybody here knows what 'hypothetical' and 'hyperbole' mean. Except you it seems. So again for your benefit here are dictionary definitions of both words:

Hypothetical

Oxford Dictionary
1.1 Supposed but not necessarily real or true:
‘the hypothetical tenth planet’

Cambridge Dictionary
imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true:
a hypothetical example/situation


Merriam Webster
: not real : imagined as an example

Collins Dictionary
existing only as an idea or concept ⇒ a time machine is a hypothetical device

Macmillan Dictionary
based on situations or events that seem possible rather than on actual ones


Hyperbole

Oxford Dictionary
Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally

Merriam Webster Dictionary
: extravagant exaggeration (as “mile-high ice-cream cones”)

Collins Dictionary
a deliberate exaggeration used for effect

Macmillan Dictionary
a way of emphasizing what you are saying by describing it as far more extreme than it really is

literarydevices.com
Hyperbole is the use of obvious and deliberate exaggeration. Hyperbolic statements are often extravagant and not meant to be taken literally. These statements are used to create a strong impression and add emphasis.

dictionary.com
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”.

thefreedictionary.com
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.


I mentioned a few weeks back that I will provide a more detailed breakdown of 1Cor 13 which will help you (and others) to obtain a better grasp of Paul's teachings; initially I had three pages ready but the study gained my interest more than I anticipated which saw me spending some time at the library of a sizable Christian college where I was able to scan chapters 12, 13 & 14 of a number of books that I did not own. As I need to undertake a third visit to this library it will be a few weeks before I can compile all the data, which has grown from the initial three pages to well over 30 pages, which I understand I will be able to post as a PDF file.

The following 32 scholars (and 30 books) are what I am working with but as I need at least five more commentaries that I deem to be important I will have to wait until I can get there sometime next week.

The PDF (presuming that it posts successfully) has been constructed as a study resource which means that those who want to take a more indepth look into 1Cor 13 will be able to use the technical resources that I have quoted, and quoted in some length.

I am not surprised it is taking you so long if you are having to scour the academic world to find some 'scholars' who agree with your rather unique interpretation of 1 Cor 13:1-3. Even among the plethora of continuationist authors that have sprung up since the Pentecostal and charismatic movements started in the last few decades, few seem to hold to your assertion that the tongues spoken in Corinth was definitely the language of angels. Even Pentecostalism's most respected theologian Gordon Fee cannot bring himself to affirm it, and has to concede that the 'tongues of men' refers to tongues spoken in foreign human languages. But I'm sure you'll be able to cherry pick a few examples though.

Anyway here are a few commentaries which were rather easier to track down (mainly from the limited views available on Google Books) and might help you in your studies:

Holman New Testament Commentary - 1 & 2 Corinthians
By Richard L., Jr. Pratt

13:1. First, Paul touched on speaking in tongues. This issue topped his list because of the overemphasis some Corinthians had placed on this gift of the Spirit. He described the gift here as tongues of men and of angels. The grammatical construction of the original language does not indicate that Paul was claiming to have done this. He spoke entirely hypothetically, without reference to whether he had done any of these things. Obviously he had not surrendered his “body to the flames” (13:3) as he said later. Further, neither he nor anyone else but the omniscient God ever had, could, or would “fathom all mysteries and all knowledge” (13:2). On the other hand, he did have the “gift of prophecy” (13:2), and he did “speak in tongues” (14:18). Grammatically, no evidence exists that Paul believed it was possible to speak in the tongues … of angels. Nowhere else does the Bible provide evidence of such a possibility.
Even so, such an extraordinary gift would profit nothing without love. Paul puts the matter in striking terms, confessing that without love accompanying such an extraordinary gift, he would amount to nothing but a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. His special gift, devoid of love, would amount to meaningless clamor. This must have shocked the Corinthian readers. Those who exalted themselves because of their gift of tongues must have looked like fools.
13:2. Second, Paul spoke of prophecy. Paul held this gift in high esteem. But he imagined the gift in a greater form than it had ever appeared in human history. Suppose he were to have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he could fathom all mysteries and all knowledge. Prophets know things that are hidden from others because they receive revelation from God, but no prophet has ever had such omniscience. Yet, without love he would be nothing, even if he knew every divine secret.
Third, Paul raised the gift of faith. In this case, he did not have in mind saving faith that every believer exercises. Instead, he spoke of a special ability to trust and believe God to do great miracles. Paul described this faith as the ability to move mountains. The allusion to Jesus’ words is evident (Mark 11:23). It would be astonishing for Paul to have had the ability to move mountains through his faith. Nevertheless, even this dramatic ability would amount to nothing without love for other
13:3. Fourth, Paul imagined himself giving all he possessed to the poor. This may allude to Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler (Mark 10:21), or it may refer to the early church’s practice of selling their possessions to feed the church (Acts 2:44–45). Paul, however, was not wealthy. He had also demonstrated his willingness to go hungry and homeless. In all likelihood, Paul focused more on the benefit to others that such an act would produce, not on the sacrifice. Even such a beneficial act would profit him nothing if he did not do it out of love.
Fifth, Paul imagined that he might surrender his body to the flames. Some textual evidence supports an alternative reading followed by the NRSV: “hand over my body so that I may boast.” It seems most likely that he imagined a situation of religious persecution in which he would be called upon to die. Or, Paul may have thought of his own trials and persecutions short of death. The words, I gain nothing, may apply to one situation as well as to the other.
Throughout this portion of the chapter, Paul addressed several hypothetical situations in which he might do the most remarkable things imaginable. It seems commonsensical that these experiences should have value in themselves. But Paul responded that without Christian love these experiences amount to nothing, just like the person who performs them.
Paul followed Jesus, who placed “love your neighbor as yourself” second only to “love the Lord your God” (Matt. 22:37–40). The command to love one another is the second most important law of Scripture. It is no wonder Paul argued that without love for others all spiritual gifts are worthless.


Abingdon New Testament Commentaries | 1 Corinthians
By Richard A. Horsley

In verses 1-3, presenting himself as a hypothetical example, Paul first mockingly exaggerates both the Corinthians' favorite spiritual gifts and his own central values and commitment, and then suddenly deflates them. Perhaps by rehearing the words and phrases stacked one upon another, we may sense the exaggeration and excess (in italics): "If I speak with the tongues of men, and even of angels . . . ; if I possess prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains' and “if I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my own body' (AT). Moreover, angels always have a hyperbolic function in Paul's letters (cf. 4:9; Gal 1:8; 4:14), and “to remove mountains' is a grotesque metaphor, and actually giving over one's body in martyrdom did not come into prominence until several generations later. Paul's own tongue is squarely in his cheek as he dictates.
The textual variants in verse 3 may signal yet another aspect of Paul's irony. "Boast' is the oldest and most difficult reading. But the meaning? A possible way of reading the NRSV's primary translation is to understand Paul as mocking his own practice of devoting his whole life and energy to his mission. Another possibility is to read it as an aside: "let me boast just for once.” In that case, Paul would be distancing himself from his suddenly high-blown "genre,' poking fun at his temporarily grandiloquent style and pretentious offering of sublime ideas.
On the other side of the deflation, “but do not have love,' he is clearly mocking his own emphasis on faith and his own poverty and refusal to accept support (see on 9:15) as well as the Corinthians' excitement over tongues and their passion for gnosis. Even if one had all knowledge she or he would be nothing (cf. 1:26-29). Even if he sacrifices his own life he gains nothing.

Fanning the Flame: Probing the Issues in Acts
By Mark E. Moore

The second key passage is 1 Corinthians 13:1. Here Paul mentions angelic tongues. If Paul spoke in angelic tongues, should we not also expect to? There’s the catch -- Paul never claimed to speak in an angelic tongue.[17] 1 Corinthians 13:1 is both hypothetical and hyperbolic. In other words, Paul is exaggerating to make a point. This hypothetical angelic tongue begins a series of statements contrasting the value of super-miraculous stuff with the superior value of love. The fact is, Paul never "knew all mysteries,” "moved mountains,” "gave all his possessions to the poor,” or "offered his body to be burned.” If he did not do anything else in his hypothetical/hyperbolic list, why should we assume he spoke in the language of an angel? Is it possible that he did? Certainly. Is it certain that he did? Hardly. To base the dominant exercise of glossolalia on such a nebulous statement is tenuous.

First Corinthians
By Raymond F. Collins, Daniel J. Harrington

Along with the rhetorical devices of gradation Paul's argument profits from the use of metaphor, including hyperbole, which is a kind of metaphor (cf. Aristotle, Art of Rhetoric 3.11.15), and comparison. Verse 1 uses the striking metaphors of angelic speech and sounding brass to speak of the gift of tongues, a charism Paul himself enjoyed.
...
1. If I speak in the tongues of humans and even of angels, and do not have love: Paul begins his digression on love with a reference to ordinary speech and speaking in tongues. Speaking (cf. ch. 14) is the counterpoint of what he will have to say about love. The gift of speaking in tongues was quite visible and highly esteemed among the Corinthians. Paul claimed that he had the ability to speak in tongues even more than the Corinthians did (14:6, 18). J. G. Sigountos ("Genre," 252) takes "and of angels" as a hyperbolic expression, but Paul's phrase appears to designate the phenomenon of speaking in tongues. Parallels in the Testament of Job confirm that this is the connotation of Paul's phrase. His mode of expression follows a kind of "from the lesser to the greater" rhetorical construction in the form of gradation. His use of the rhetorical device of klimax emphasizes the gift of speaking in tongues.


1 Corinthians: An Exegetical and Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture (New American Commentary)
Mark Taylor

The first unit, 13:1-3, opens with three parallel conditional clauses' and a threefold assertion that apart from love spiritual gifts amount to nothing. Paul affirms that though he could speak with languages, both human and divine, possess prophetic powers, fathom all mysteries and knowledge, have mountain moving faith, benevolently give to the poor, and give his body in sacrifice, he is nothing if he does not have love. Whereas the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues occur last in the previous list of gifts, here tongues occurs first. The reason may be linked to Paul's rhetorical strategy, a progression from the lesser to the greater (cf. 12:31, "eagerly desire the greater gifts).
Tongues is mentioned first here because it is the least beneficial when uninterpreted. The repetition of the phrase "but have not love" elevates love above all gifts as "the most excellent Way" (12:31b).

13:1. Paul begins by hypothetically claiming that if he could speak with the tongues of men and of angels he is nothing if he does not have love. While it is possible that the phrase "tongues of men" refers to human eloquence' and "tongues of angels" refers to the gift of tongues, it is more likely in context that Paul refers only to the spiritual gift of tongues (languages) and heightens the rhetorical impact by referring to "tongues of angels" by way of hyperbole. This is not to say that there is no such thing as a "heavenly tongue," or to deny that the Corinthians themselves may have thought of the gift of tongues in this way. The point of Paul's statement is not to establish different kinds of tongues' but rather to emphasize that the gift, if exercised apart from love, is meaningless noise.' The ambiguity of Paul's reference to the "resounding gong" or "clanging cymbal" has resulted in a number of possible interpretations. However, even if the reference is somewhat ambiguous, the essential meaning of the hypothetical example is clear. The term translated "gong" by the NIV was used of various kinds of metals but mainly bronze or brass. Based on a few references in Greco-Roman literature, Harris and Klein suggest that Paul refers to the acoustic vase used in the theaters in order to project and amplify sound. Portier-Young has recently challenged this interpretation by suggesting that both the resounding brass (gong) and the clanging cymbal describe the same thing. The clanging cymbal simply clarifies what is intended by the resounding gong. In the biblical tradition the cymbal was never played solo but always in conjunction with other instruments. By using the metaphor Paul is urging the tongues-speakers to use their gifts for the edification of the church.' Still others suggest that Paul intends comparison instead of disjunction so that the text should read, "I have become as sounding brass rather than a resounding cymbal."' Some see in the mention of the "clanging cymbal" a reference to pagan worship.'

13:2. From tongues Paul moves on to prophecy, knowledge, and faith. Knowing all mysteries may be a separate gift from prophecy, but it could also be coordinate with it. In others words, prophecy includes insight into the mysteries of God. Paul, of course, does not know all mysteries nor does he possess all knowledge (13:9). He clearly exaggerates to make a point and presents a hypothetical scenario. Paul did have the gift of prophecy, he did have insight into the mysteries disclosed in the gospel, and he did possess great faith, even to the point of effecting miracles (Acts 14:3; 16:16–24; 19:11; 28:3–6; Rom 15:19; 2 Cor 12:12). In 14:6 Paul hypothetically describes himself as bringing teaching, revelation, knowledge, and prophecy to the Corinthians in assembly (cf. 14:37–38). In his mission to Corinth Paul announced the "mystery of God" (2:1). He, along with other apostles and gifted prophets (teachers), taught God's hidden wisdom (2:7) and were stewards (administrators) of the mysteries of God (4:1). Even in the letter itself, Paul makes known a "mystery" regarding the transformation of believer's mortal bodies (15:51; see also Rom 11:25; 16:25; 2 Thess 2:7). The reference to a faith that could remove mountains, an idiom for great faith, resonates with the teaching of Jesus and may be derived from it (see Matt 17:1920; 21:21; Mark 1:22-24; Luke 17:6). Even though Paul possessed these gifts, the repetition of the word "all" functions as hyperbole to make a point.' Paul is saying that even if he possessed these gifts in perfection, without love he would be nothing.
13:3. In the third and final hypothetical example Paul asserts that even the ultimate in self-sacrifice profits nothing apart from love. The giving away of one's possessions, even the offering of one's very life apart from love ultimately profits nothing. This Verse Contains One of the most difficult textual Variants in the New Testament. The NIV reads, "and surrender my body to the flames" (cf. NASB, "surrender my body to be burned"). The more recent NIV2011 (cf. also the NRSV, HCSB) follows the editors of the Greek New Testament and adopts a variant reading, "and give over my body to hardship, that I may boast."
The Greek terms for "burn" and "boast" are very close in the Greek.' Many agree that "boast" is the more likely reading, although there are significant detractors.' If "boasting" is the correct reading, what does Paul mean, especially in a letter where boasting is one of the key problems in Corinth? Although Paul often refers to boasting disparagingly, he also uses the term on occasion with reference to his ministry (2 Cor 8:24; Phill 2:16; 1 Thess 2:19; also Rom 5:2-3; 1 Cor 1:29-31; 9:15; 2 Cor 2:14). Fee, who is a proponent of this interpretation, suggests that in 13:3 "this final item is most likely a genuine reflection on his own ministry, in which he is referring to the kinds of bodily sufferings of which he "boasts' in 2 Cor 11:23-29 and 12:10, which also help to bring about his greater "boast,' their salvation." Another intriguing aspect of this passage is the mention of giving possessions and giving oneself, either in martyrdom or for the cause of the gospel, alongside the spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, knowledge, and faith. Does Paul consider extreme sacrifice to be a gift of the Spirit? Ciampa and Rosner think so, "The Context makes clear that the actions mentioned here are understood to reflect the practice of spiritual gifts ... not as clear whether or not they are embodiments of one or two of the gifts mentioned in 12:8-10 or 12:28-30." Whether or not 13:3 should be understood as a "gift" in the traditional sense, I would submit that such actions are most certainly a "manifestation of the Spirit." We may sometimes think too narrowly in restricting a "spiritual gift" to something possessed.

A Bible Handbook to the Acts of the Apostles
By Mal Couch

It has been suggested that Paul allows for a second kind of tongues when he speaks of the "tongues of angels," that is, ecstatic utterances (1 Cor. 13:1). However, the word glossa is not used to speak of ecstatic utterances in any other place, and such a definition here would be against the established meaning of the word. Even if glossa were used of ecstatic utterances, that does not establish the fact that this is what is meant by the tongues of angels. That would be a rather large leap in logic because we do not know if angels speak in a language that is significantly different from human languages. Could it be that they speak in one of our human languages?
Anytime angels speak in the Bible it is in a language that is known to the human hearers, even in the case of the apostle John, who heard them speak in heaven in the book of Revelation. Furthermore, it must be remembered that the apostle Paul is using hyperbole (hypothetical exaggeration) in 1 Corinthians 13. In that chapter, he is simply emphasizing the essential place of love in the use of spiritual gifts. He states that, even if he knew everything or gave his body to be burned and he did it without love, then such matters would be without value.
The fact of the matter is that Paul did not know everything, did not give his body to be burned, and did not speakin an angelic language. It is unwise to build a doctrinal position on hypothetical exaggeration, particularly when it makes one go against the established meaning of words. It is best to conclude that the gift of tongues is the ability to speak in known human languages which are unknown to the speaker and to avoid the inclusion of ecstatic utterances in the definition.

Keep in Step with the Spirit
By J I Packer

Of a piece with Kuyper's guess is the view, often met, that Paul saw Christian glossolalia as "tongues of angels" (1 Cor. 13:1), angelic as distinct from human language. But while this, like so much else that is proposed in the discussion of 1 Corinthians 12–14, is not absolutely impossible, Paul's words in 13:1 are sufficiently explained as a rhetorical hyperbole meaning simply "no matter how wonderful a performance my glossolalia may be."

Ecstatic Utterances
R Gundry

Even more to the point, if one reads further it becomes apparent that the speaking in tongues of angels does not at all have to indicate factual reality in Paul’s mind (Paul uses ean . with the subjunctive throughout verses 1-3) and indeed probably does not: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, ... if I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned ... ( Cor xiii.2f., italics mine). As matters of fact, Paul does not claim to possess all prophetic insight and knowledge or to have all faith or to have given up all his possessions or to have delivered his body to be burned (obviously not, since he is writing a letter!). These are "suppose-so" statements only partially true of Paul's experience. By the same token, although Paul claims to speak in tongues, it is not necessary to infer that he claims to speak in the tongues of angels. In fact, the analogy of the following parallel expressions indicates that he does not here claim to do so. Speaking with the tongues of angels corresponds to the unreal "all's" in the succeeding statements. In other words, just as Paul lays claim to some prophetic insight (so chapter xiv) but not all, so also he writes that he miraculously speaks in some foreign languages (tongues of men) but not in all (for he does not speak in angelic tongues). His argumentative point is that even if the latter were true, it would still be profitless without love.'

First Corinthians (Paideia: Commentaries on the New Testament)
By Pheme Perkins

The phrase could be poetic hyperbole on Paul’s part, a way of saying that no speech, human or heavenly, counts for anything without love (Fitzmyer 2008, 492). Or it could be an allusion to Jewish mystical traditions in which a visionary ascends into the heavens and hears or participates in angelic Worship. Paul claims a comparable experience but refuses to (or cannot) disclose its content in 2 Cor. 12:1-4: “I heard the unutterable words that human beings are not permitted to utter" (12:4). The comparison of speech without love to a chalkos echon (noisy bronze) is not necessarily referring to a particular instrument (often translated "gong,” so NRSV). Bronze plates often served as sounding boards or amplification for various instruments in theaters (Vitruvius, De architectura 5.3.8; Fitzmyer 2008, 492).

Miraculous Gifts: Are They for Today?
By Thomas R. Edgar

A careful reading of the passage shows that Paul does not state that he or anyone else speaks or has ever spoken the languages of angels. He says, "If I speak the tongues of men and angels." This is the first in a series of three parallel statements (verses 1-3) all of which begin with "if" (Ean, if, verse 1; kai eam, and if, verse 2; kan, and is, verse 3). The "if" presents:
... mere objective possibility connected with the future, "If I should speak with the tongues of men and of angels," not "Though I speak" (AV). . . . "Supposing that I had all the powers of earthly and heavenly utterance."
Each of the parallel statements begins with "if" and ends with the expression "but I do not have love. . . ." The first part of each is a hyperbole (exaggeration) referring to a spiritual gift or quality and to an extreme or theoretical example of its application. The statement, therefore, points out that not only exercise of the gift or spiritual quality apart from love is profitless to the exerciser, but even using it to such exaggerated or extreme (theoretical) use is also profitless. This argument is clearest in the second example (verse 2), where Paul says, "If I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." The first part of the statement, "If I have prophecy," refers to something (prophecy) which Paul and others actually had.
However, the second part, "and if I know all mysteries and all knowledge" refers to that which no one exercises or will exercise. In this very passage (verse 9) Paul states that now (in this life) we only have partial prophecy and partial knowledge. No one knows all mysteries and all knowledge. This second part of the hyperbole continues with the statement, "if I have all faith so that I move mountains." This also is a theoretical extreme which no one possesses or exercises. Prophecy is the basic gift; "knowing all mysteries and all knowledge" and "having all faith" are the hypothetical, unobtainable extremes or exaggerations which Paul uses to convey his point that even such exaggerated cases would profit nothing apart from love. The basic gift is first; the extremes are then connected by "and." In effect Paul says, "If I have prophecy and even if I could go all the way to the extreme of knowing all mysteries and knowledge, and having all faith so that I could move mountains, and did not have love, I am nothing." The third example (verse 3) functions in the same way, thereby supporting this interpretation. Paul states, "If I donate all of my possessions (Paul may have done this-cf. Philippians 3:8)" and I hand over my body to be burned (Paul had not actually done so), but I do not have love . . . ." While it is not impossible to do so, Paul had not performed the more extreme of these examples (handing over his body to be burned). The first action is probable; the second is connected to the first by "and;" it is an extreme action even if a possibility.' This same structure functions in Paul's first example: "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels." "Tongues of men" refers to the basic gift or quality. Connected to this by "and," the expression "tongues of angels" refers to the exaggeration or hypothetical extreme which is impossible to do, or at least which Paul has not done. Paul says, "If I exercise the gift of tongues and, in fact, could even go to such an extreme as to speak angel language, it means nothing (it is mere noise) apart from love." Each of these three examples is parallel in structure and in thought. The second is very clear. The fact that the three fit the same pattern is definite evidence that they are all, in fact, examples of hyperbole. Each of the three begins with "if" and an example of a probable spiritual activity. In each case this is followed by an extreme or hypothetical spiritual activity (connected to the first statement by "and"). Each of the examples closes with the statement "but I do not have love." Paul uses these three examples to prove his point that even if he could go to such unusual extremes, apart from love, there would be no profit to him. The extremes are: "speaking in angel languages"; "knowing all mysteries and all knowledge and having all faith"; and "giving the body to be burned." The second item, as we have seen, is impossible. The third is very rare, and Paul himself had not done so. Paul refers to the first item (speaking in the tongues of angels) in the same way as the others-i.e., as a theoretical possibility or at the least something he had not practiced. This is the obvious sense of Paul's discussion in I Corinthians 13: 1-3.
As matters of fact, Paul does not claim to possess all prophetic insight and knowledge or to have all faith or to have given up all his possessions or to have delivered his body to be burned (obviously not, since he is writing a letter!). These are "suppose-so" statements only partially true of Paul's experience. By the same token, although Paul claims to speak in tongues, it is not necessary to infer that he claims to speak in the tongues of angels. In fact, the analogy of the following parallel expressions indicates that he does not here claim to do so. Speaking with the tongues of angels corresponds to the unreal "all's" in the succeeding statements. In other words, just as Paul lays claim to some prophetic insight (so chapter xiv) but not all, so also he writes that he miraculously speaks in some foreign languages (tongues of men) but not in all (for he does not speak in angelic tongues). His argumentative point is that even if the latter were true, it would still be profitless without love.' Rather than proof that Paul spoke in "angel" or "heavenly" languages, this passage is evidence that he spoke in the "tongues (languages of men."

Speaking in Tongues
Gerhard Hasel

We must recognize that Paul spoke hypothetically in 1 Cor 13:1 as the Greek conditional clause indicates. Paul uses the conditional participle ean followed by the subjunctive. This type of conditional clause in the Greek language is one that does not speak about reality. Paul seems to say with hyperbole that if all linguistic possibilities including angelic speech were at his disposal and yet he lacked love it would mean nothing. The supposition is that Paul does not speak in the tongue of angels

Showing the Spirit
D A Carson

The construction of the first clause 22 probably signals intensity toward the end: "If I speak in the tongues of men and even of angels. . . ." It is not clear whether either Paul or his readers thought their gifts of tongues were the dialects of angels. A few interesting Jewish parallels make this possible;23 but Paul may be writing hyperbolically to draw as sharp a contrast as possible with love. I suppose a pedant might argue that they cannot be the tongues of angels, because in that case it would be silly for tongues to cease when perfection comes since that is precisely when we are more likely to encounter angels! But I shall leave the question as to what language or languages we shall speak in the new heaven and on the new earth to those more gifted in speculation than I. Paul's point is relatively simple. No matter how exalted my gift of tongues, without love I am nothing more than a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
...
Certainly verse 2 finds Paul playing with hypothetical superlatives. He himself does not think that any prophet "can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge," since he goes on to say that at present "we know in part and we prophesy in part" (13:9). If there is a difference between"mysteries" and "knowledge" in this context, the former refers to the eschatological situation and the latter to the entire redemptive purpose of God; but Paul may not be making nice distinctions. 126 The point is that even the gift of prophecy, no matter how much reliable information comes from it, is intrinsically valueless if it operates without love. So also the gift of faith—as in 12:9, this refers not to saving faith but to something more specialized, such as the faith that can move mountains—has no intrinsic value. Again, however, Paul's conclusion is even more shattering: not only are the spiritual gifts exercised without love of no value, but, says Paul, "I am nothing"—"spiritually a cipher"127 But Paul is not content to draw examples only from the more spectacular or "miraculous" of the you o foucato (charismata). In verse 3 he goes on to incredibly self-sacrificing philanthropy 28 and even personal martyrdom by fiery ordeal (if that reading is adopted as correct), 29 like the martyrdom of Maccabean Jews130 or the three heroes of Daniel 3:28. The result is the same: without love, gain nothing. My deeds of philanthropy and my resolute determination to remain loyal to the truth even in the face of martyrdom cannot in themselves attest my high spiritual position or the superiority of my experiences with the Holy Spirit. In all of this, if there is no love, gain nothing.

Understanding Spiritual Gifts: A Verse-by-verse Study of 1 Corinthians 12-14
by Robert L. Thomas

13:1 - Futility of tongues Without love. First, attention in combating overemphasis on spiritual gifts naturally goes to what the Corinthians had misconstrued the most, the gift of tongues. Paul uses himself to illustrate and create a hypothetical case, one that had not and could not become actual. He pictures a situation of personally possessing the gift of tongues to the extent of being able to speak the languages of all men everywhere. He even goes beyond this and conceives of an ability to communicate in celestial languages of angels as Well, whatever these languages might be (see 2 Cor. 12:4 and Rev. 14:2-3 for possible examples). Here is a case of ultimate linguistic ability that was never realized by Paul or anyone else (though Paul was richly endowed along this line, 1 Cor. 14:18). This is clearly beyond any claim the readers could make about their own facility with tongues.

Prophecy and Inspired Speech in Early Christianity
Christopher Forbes

The following contentions are advanced in favour of (a): the parallel with Luke suggests a priori that a miraculous gift of language is intended, as does the closely related terminology. The Greek y\Gooa, like the English "tongue", can mean little else in this context, and the related gift, "interpretation" (1 Corinthians 12.30, 14.5, 13, etc.), is most naturally understood in its primary sense of (inspired) "translation". Paul's explicit statement, "If I speak in the tongues of men and angels" (13.1) is clearly central here. Likewise important is his argument that "If I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner (Bdipfbapos) to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me" (14.11). It is further urged that the plain meaning of Paul's quotation from Isaiah 28. 11-12, in ch. 14.20ff, has to do with foreign languages.
Clearly the case in favour of angelic languages also appeals to several of these passages, though 1 Corinthians 13.1a, "the tongues of men", is something of a puzzle, unless it is understood only as a parallel to ch. 14 vv. 7-8, "even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp", and the language metaphor is de-emphasised. This case is usually urged with reference to the belief in divine languages in the Hellenistic world (for which see Chapter 7), or the belief in angelic languages expressed in some Jewish intertestamental works (for which see the Appendix). Those who wish to argue that only angelic languages (not some unspecified mixture of angelic and human languages) are what Paul intends his readers to understand are compelled to ignore 1 Corinthians 13.1a, "the tongues of men", or avoid its force by arguing it means non-glossolalic speech. Those who wish to argue in favour of human languages only must argue that 13.1b, "and angels", is hyperbole, in parallel with understanding "all mysteries and all knowledge", and surrendering one's body to the flames, in vv. 2-3.
It would seem to me that the widely held view that Paul must primarily mean heavenly languages is implausible, being as it is based heavily on the phrase "and angels" in 1 Corinthians 13.1, which does look like a rhetorical flourish. "Or even those of angels" may well be the sense Paul intended here: clearly his is not really claiming "all mysteries and all knowledge", or to have sold all that he has. The Jewish parallels for the concept of angelic languages are interesting but not finally convincing (see the Appendix for further discussion), and the theory puts altogether too much weight on one flimsy exegetical peg." Dunn's supporting argument, that "the analogy Paul uses in 14.10f between glossolalia and foreign language cannot be taken as evidence that Paul thought of glossolalia as foreign language" (a very similar suggestion is made by C.G. Williams, Tongues of the Spirit, Cardiff, 1981, p. 31) seems to me entirely false. Foreign languages, or, more precisely, the miraculous ability to speak foreign languages otherwise unknown to the speaker (the analogy, pace Williams, is not mere redundancy) is precisely what it suggests. It is true that one does not draw analogies between like phenomena, but between unlike; Paul is comparing naturally known languages with what he sees as special gifts of languages. Our two main contenders are unlearned human languages, as in Luke (and perhaps angelic languages as well), and inarticulate speech. Here I think the weight of argument inclines to the side of the "languages" interpretation. The common "inarticulate speech" view may be able to explain Paul's reference to speakers in different languages as being foreigners one to another as mere metaphor, like the reference to musical instruments. But the reference to "tongues of men" in 1 Corinthians 13.1 can hardly be so explained, and if it is allowed to remain, the presumption must be strong that Paul's reference to speakers of mutually foreign languages implies that foreign languages were what he thought glossolalists spoke. The point of the comparison with unclear bugle calls then becomes their failure to communicate, rather than simply their lack of clarity. Further, this interpretation is quite capable of taking up the positive points made in favour of the "inarticulate speech" view. Glossolalic languages spoken without love - that is, in an inconsiderate and arrogant fashion, as proof of spiritual achievement - might as well be just noise for all the good they do to the community.41

First Corinthians
By George T. Montague

By human and angelic tongues Paul is probably using hyperbole, intentional exaggeration, and the order of the Greek words even suggests that "if I speak with all the languages known to humanity, and even all the languages used by angels.” Angels praise God (Pss 103:20; 148:2), and a Jewish tradition held that they had their own languages. But angels were also bearers of heavenly messages. Thus the Corinthians might think that it is angelic language they are speaking when speaking in tongues, either to praise God or to convey a heavenly message. Interpretation, then (see 14:5), would be a rendering of the angelic prayer or message in understandable human language. In any case, the point is how useless such tongues would be without love.

Thessalonians, Corinthians, Galatians and Romans
J. W. McGarvey and Philip Y. Pendleton

[The apostle first compares love with that gift of tongues in which the Corinthians took so much [127] pride. The comparison shows that speaking with tongues, even if it were exercised in an unexampled manner, is utter emptiness unless accompanied by love. The gift of tongues, even when it attained its highest conceivable development, is inferior to the language of angels; but even if one spoke with all the gifts of language human or divine, his word, if loveless, would be but a vainglorious noise, or sounds without soul or feeling; such as come from pounding on some brazen gong or basin, or from cymbals, which are the lowest, most monotonous, least expressive of all musical instruments.

Modern-Day Miracles, Tongue-Speaking, and Holy Spirit Baptism - Apologetics Press
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

One final point on the matter of the “tongues of angels” merits mention. Even if the expression actually refers to angelic tongues that are nonhuman, it still is likely that tongue-speakers were incapable of speaking such languages. Why? Paul was speaking hypothetically and hyperbolically. No human being (with the exception of perhaps Jesus) has ever been able to speak in all human languages. For Paul to suggest such was to pose a hypothetical situation. It was to exaggerate the facts. So Paul’s meaning was: “even if I were capable of speaking all human languages—which I’m not.” Likewise, no human being has ever been able to speak the tongues of angels. So Paul’s meaning was: “even if I were capable of speaking the languages of angels—which I’m not.” This conclusion is supported further by the verse that follows the reference to the “tongues of angels.” There, Paul used two additional hypothetical events when he said, “if I…know all mysteries and all knowledge” and “if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains” (1 Corinthians 13:2). But no one on the planet (with the exception of deity) has understood all mysteries and all knowledge, nor has had faith that could literally remove mountains. Again, Paul was merely saying, “even if I could do such things—which I can’t.”

First Corinthians
B Ward Powers

If ἐάν (ean), the Greek hypothetical if which, as Alford's commentary explains, supposes a case which never has been exemplified. The tongues of men (ἄνθρωπος, anthropon) mean the actual languages spoken by human beings; and similarly and of angels would indicate speaking the language of angels. And note that certainly this is not something which Paul is claiming he can do.

The Problem Tongues in 1 Cor 14: A Reexamination
By B Zerhusen

First, careful examination of 1 Corinthians 14 reveals no references to "heaven" or "angels." We would expect some reference to such a fantastic ability of it were being practiced by the Corinthian language-speakers. All we have, however-and we shall examine it shortly-is a reference to angelic languages in 1 Corinthians 13:1.
...
Fourth, proponents of this view may appeal to Judean sources such as the Testament of Job as evidence that the problem languages of Corinth were angelic languages. Forbes observes that this work may have been redacted by Montanists, Christians, or Gnostics (183-87). There is another problem with appeals to Judean tradition and belief about angelic language. In Judean tradition there is also a belief that as the "holy tongue," Hebrew is the language (singular) of heaven. Harry M. Orlinsky provides an example of this mentality:
The idea that God and the angels spoke Hebrew is, of course, biblically derived ... what other language was employed in the Garden of Eden, and before the Fall and Dispersion of Man? ... and reference to this fact is found also, e.g., in the book of Jubilees, one of the oldest books in the Jewish 144 apocryphal literature. So that we should not be surprised when we learn that an l lth-century monk, who was getting old enough to realize that his days on earth were numbered, began hurriedly to study Hebrew, for he knew that after he died and went to heaven, he would have to speak and understand Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, if he wanted to converse with the angels and with the notable worthies who had preceded him from this earth [426].
Why should the Testament of Job be determinative rather than the Hebrew as the language of heaven tradition ?

Careful examination of 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 indicates a clear pattern found in all three verses. Paul beings with an actual ability or action ("speaking in the languages of men," " "prophesying," "having faith," "giving possessions"), which he then takes to the extreme ("speaking the languages of angels," "knowing all mysteries and having all knowledge," "moving mountains," "giving my body to be burned") to make the rhetorical and practical point that even at the zenith of the spectrum, without love these things are profitless. If this is a valid analysis of the Greek construction of 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, we also have a major clue about the gift of languages and translation (1 Cor 12:10, 28, 30): these were abilities that involved human languages.

1 Corinthians
Simon J. Kistemaker

a. “If I speak in the tongues of men, even those of angels.” With this conditional statement, Paul indicates that he himself does not engage in tongue-speaking in public worship (14:19). He appears to be saying, “Suppose that I as the Lord’s apostle have the highest possible gift of tongues, those that men use, and those even that angels use—how you Corinthians would admire, even envy me and desire to have an equal gift!”2
The word tongues can be understood to mean known languages; but in context it appears to mean tongue-speech, which some Corinthians regarded as heavenly speech. We do not know what supernatural language angels speak (compare II Cor. 12:4; Rev. 14:1—3) or whether angels are able to understand human speech.3 Conversely, angels communicate with people in human terms that are frequently recorded in both the Old and New Testaments.

Glossolalia: The Gift of Tongues
By Dr. Nathan Ogan

If the expression "tongues of men and angels" (1 Corinthians 13:1) be appealed to, it is sufficient to note that the first three verses of the chapter have a pronounced hyperbolic character. While angels no doubt have languages of their own, the apostle no more implies that he expects the readers to use them than that he expects them to give their bodies to be burned (verse 3).'


Speaking in Tongues
Watson E. Mills

As regards the "tongues of angels" in this context, Paul does speak of the tongues of men as well. Further, ean with subjunctive, "if I speak in the tongues of angels," would not necessarily suggest factual reality; the supposition is that Paul does not speak in the tongue of angels, just as he has not all the powers to prophesy etc.


Exploring 1 Corinthians: An Expository Commentary
By John Phillips

Paul begins here with the need for love (1 Cor. 13:1-3). He raises two problems. First, there is the possibility one might possess great gifts-without love (13:1-2). For instance, one might possess great gifts of communication (13:1a). He might possess the ability to speak different tongues: "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (v. 1). The case is only supposed. The word though (if) is followed by the subjunctive mood, and it expresses a hypothetical but possible condition. The future will prove whether or not such was the case. The languages are known languages (Acts 2:7-8), human languages. We have no way of knowing whether or not angels speak a heavenly language, of their own. There is no reason why they should not do so. Paul is simply saying that although he were able to speak such a lofty language that in itself would prove nothing. The acid test of genuine Christianity is not language but love.

Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament
By Daniel B. Wallace

The fourfold condition is used in a broad way. Paul builds his argument from the actual (he does have prophetic powers) to the hypothetical (he does not understand all mysteries or have all knowledge [otherwise, he would be omniscient!]). This is his pattern for the first three verses of 1 Cor 13: to argue from the actual to the hypothetical. It is therefore probable that Paul could speak in the tongues of human beings, but not in the tongues of angels (v1). 1 Cor 13:1 then, offers no comfort for those who view tongues as a heavenly language.

1 Corinthians, 2010
Ciampa & Rosner

13: 1 This verse has played a remarkable role in some modern discussions of the viewpoints of the Corinthians and their theological problems. Those who conclude that the Corinthians were suffering from an overrealized eschatology have found in this verse a hint that they may have thought that by speaking in tongues they were already participating in angelic experience as all believers would upon the resurrection from the dead. This thought, that some Corinthians aspired to or imagined themselves to be participating in angelic life and experience, is also considered to be related to their abstinence from sexual relationships (7:1), among other things.22 We find the texts employed in support of such interpretations to have more convincing interpretations that do not depend on overrealized eschatology as the key background issue.
Some interpreters have suggested that by speaking in human or angelic tongues Paul refers to "sublime oratory," picking up on the theme of wise and lofty speech from the first two chapters. 23
There does not seem to be any reason to think we are restricted to just one or the other [human or angelic languages], although the rhetorical pattern would suggest that speaking in tongues would most frequently entail speaking of (unknown) human languages, with the ability to speak angelic languages seen as an even more wonderful version or extension of the same gift.
 
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It seems you have made the mistake of assuming that 'together with all those everywhere' (as the NIV translates 1 Cor 1:2) is extending the addressee to include not only the Corinthians but all churches universally. If you are correct in your supposition does that mean all churches everywhere are guilty of abuse of the Lord's table, sexual immorality, creating divisive factions, taking fellow believers to court, opposing Paul's authority, etc. etc? Of course not. Anyone who has made even the most cursory of studies into this epistle cannot fail to notice that the entire letter is one of correcting a series of errors specific to the Corinthians. And their misuse of the gift of tongues in 1 Cor 14 is no exception. The elders of the church in Corinth had obviously sent word to Paul that during meetings people were speaking in tongues in languages that nobody in the congregation understood and sought his advice. So Paul begins the chapter by spelling out the problem - "anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, indeed no one understands them". Paul is stating the obvious - when someone speaks in an unrecognized tongue no one in the congregation understands, only God who knows all languages understands. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language.

Of course, seeing as Paul's letter is included in the canon, also means that the universal church as a whole can learn the lessons of the Corinthians and not repeat the same mistakes themselves.

As to your idea that 1 Cor 1:2 is extending the addressees of the letter, if you had taken a closer look at the passage you quoted you would have seen what lies immediately before your proof text: "called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul's "together" is not extending the addressees, but telling the Corinthians they are called to be God's people along with all who call on the name of our Lord. Admittedly the comma the NIV has inserted can catch out the unwary - in which case the other translations of this verse might help you to understand this verse better:

ESV To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

RSV To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

NASB To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

NKJV To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Actually, leaving aside the merits of the various translations, I will agree with you on this particular point. It seems that by taking Paul's broader address from the opening of 2 Cor 1:1 back into 1 Cor 1:2 I was saying more than Paul intended. We would not realise from 1Cor 1:2 that Paul had addressed First Corinthians to the churches within Southern Greece (incl. Athens) until we were to read Paul’s introduction to Second Corinthians, where he clarifies who the Epistles were being addressed to, which were the Churches throughout Achaia or Southern Greece which includes those areas below the Province of Macedonia, including the Peloponnese Peninsula and not only to those cities, towns and villages within the Corinthian Isthmus.

As you apparently view Paul’s writings to the Corinthians as being merely a personal letter and not an Epistle, where various others also say that the rest of his writings are only letters and not Epistles, then you are in the dilemma where you have to choose what parts of his Epistles (or letters in your case) that you want to accept or reject, where the Canon of Scripture only applies to what you want to believe applies to you.


Of course an interpreter would be needed. How else would the congregation be edified? You seem to be forgetting that the Corinthians met in small groups in peoples houses (as scripture makes clear). If someone was speaking in a Persian tongue in a small Greek congregation how else would they understand what was said?
Why do you make reference to a single "Greek congregation" when the city precinct of Corinth was in fact a Latin city where Latin was the language of government and with the intelligentsia. Then we have the two extensive seaport suburbs of Lechaion to the North and Isthmia to the East where these two town/suburbs would have found the various Christian congregations hosting visitors from all over the Roman Empire, which is no surprise as the Corinthian Isthmus was the crossroads to the Roman Empire. This means that these congregations and the larger ones within the city centre of Corinth would have hosted many Christians from within many language groups.

As for the edification value of tongues, as the Holy Spirit always directs his speech to the Father in a heavenly/angelic tongue in words of praise and adoration, this means that when the speaker also provides an interpretation of what the Spirit was saying to the Father then they are edified through knowing what was being said. This edification has nothing to do with teaching or revelation but merely that they will have a pretty good idea of what they Spirit was saying to the Father.

Contrary to your "as the Scriptures make clear", the New Testament provides us with absolutely no hint as to the logistics of any local congregation or collection of regional congregations, none whatsoever. What we do know from the use of house within the New Testament, is that this can not only apply to both small and larger homes but to the grounds that surround these homes as well. Which means that even a small farm with a decent outdoor area that was suitable for a meeting place of several hundred people could be used for the local church particularly as the Mediterranean climate is often suited to this purpose.

Within Corinth, as one of the congregational members was Erastus the City Treasurer (or works manager) who essentially held the keys to the public stadium, there would be no reason why he could not have arranged (and paid) for the various congregations across the Corinthian Isthmus to meet there on the odd occasion which means that many hundreds could potentially assemble which has its parallel with the larger congregations of latter years and with our own time period.

In addition, we do not know if there were congregations that used a specific language that was common to the members of each particular congregation, which is something that has been common down through the ages. As the leaders and major benefactors who resided at least within the city precinct of Corinth (downtown Corinth) would have spoken Latin at home, we also would have had Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Farsi and who knows how many other languages at play as well. So the various cities, towns and villages across the Corinthian Isthmus would have been the home of not only many diverse language groups but also with those visitors who regularly crossed over the Diolkos ship tramway.

Perhaps you could show us then, out of 'Paul's heavy discourse on tongues throughout chapter 14', exactly where he gives us a detailed redefinition of what tongues exactly is, that overrides the detailed description given in Acts 2:4-11?
Is this really a serious question, how can you compare the three direct verses of Acts 2 with the maybe 32 direct verses on 1Cor 12, 13 & 14.

I think everybody here knows what 'hypothetical' and 'hyperbole' mean. Except you it seems. So again for your benefit here are dictionary definitions of both words:

Hypothetical

Oxford Dictionary
1.1 Supposed but not necessarily real or true:
‘the hypothetical tenth planet’

Cambridge Dictionary
imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true:
a hypothetical example/situation


Merriam Webster
: not real : imagined as an example

Collins Dictionary
existing only as an idea or concept ⇒ a time machine is a hypothetical device

Macmillan Dictionary
based on situations or events that seem possible rather than on actual ones


Hyperbole

Oxford Dictionary
Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally

Merriam Webster Dictionary
: extravagant exaggeration (as “mile-high ice-cream cones”)

Collins Dictionary
a deliberate exaggeration used for effect

Macmillan Dictionary
a way of emphasizing what you are saying by describing it as far more extreme than it really is

literarydevices.com
Hyperbole is the use of obvious and deliberate exaggeration. Hyperbolic statements are often extravagant and not meant to be taken literally. These statements are used to create a strong impression and add emphasis.

dictionary.com
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”.

thefreedictionary.com
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
To be fair, I realise that those who for various reasons out of their own control have been unable to obtain a solid education or who in later years have not made the effort to read the better literature, this means that they could very easily fail to understand the key grammatical terms that commentators employ; but for those who have either obtained a solid education or who have made the effort to understand these particular grammatical terms then they are at an obvious advantage. Unless you are able to understand the differences between speech that is either hypothetical or hyperbole then you will be unable to understand what the various commentators are saying within 1 Cor 13.

You might want to keep the following Oxford Dictionary definitions at hand when looking at this particular chapter:
Hypothetical_Hyperbole_Idiom_Metaphor (Oxford Dictionary).jpg

>> >> >> Thank you for your effort with the following commentaries. As a few of them were not peer-reviewed this meant that there was little value with looking at them, though I realised that I forgot to quote Daniel Wallace and if I can source his book I will undoubtedly include this important cessationist in the PDF.
I am not surprised it is taking you so long if you are having to scour the academic world to find some 'scholars' who agree with your rather unique interpretation of 1 Cor 13:1-3. Even among the plethora of continuationist authors that have sprung up since the Pentecostal and charismatic movements started in the last few decades, few seem to hold to your assertion that the tongues spoken in Corinth was definitely the language of angels. Even Pentecostalism's most respected theologian Gordon Fee cannot bring himself to affirm it, and has to concede that the 'tongues of men' refers to tongues spoken in foreign human languages. But I'm sure you'll be able to cherry pick a few examples though.

Anyway here are a few commentaries which were rather easier to track down (mainly from the limited views available on Google Books) and might help you in your studies:

Holman New Testament Commentary - 1 & 2 Corinthians
By Richard L., Jr. Pratt

13:1. First, Paul touched on speaking in tongues. This issue topped his list because of the overemphasis some Corinthians had placed on this gift of the Spirit. He described the gift here as tongues of men and of angels. The grammatical construction of the original language does not indicate that Paul was claiming to have done this. He spoke entirely hypothetically, without reference to whether he had done any of these things. Obviously he had not surrendered his “body to the flames” (13:3) as he said later. Further, neither he nor anyone else but the omniscient God ever had, could, or would “fathom all mysteries and all knowledge” (13:2). On the other hand, he did have the “gift of prophecy” (13:2), and he did “speak in tongues” (14:18). Grammatically, no evidence exists that Paul believed it was possible to speak in the tongues … of angels. Nowhere else does the Bible provide evidence of such a possibility.
Even so, such an extraordinary gift would profit nothing without love. Paul puts the matter in striking terms, confessing that without love accompanying such an extraordinary gift, he would amount to nothing but a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. His special gift, devoid of love, would amount to meaningless clamor. This must have shocked the Corinthian readers. Those who exalted themselves because of their gift of tongues must have looked like fools.
13:2. Second, Paul spoke of prophecy. Paul held this gift in high esteem. But he imagined the gift in a greater form than it had ever appeared in human history. Suppose he were to have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he could fathom all mysteries and all knowledge. Prophets know things that are hidden from others because they receive revelation from God, but no prophet has ever had such omniscience. Yet, without love he would be nothing, even if he knew every divine secret.
Third, Paul raised the gift of faith. In this case, he did not have in mind saving faith that every believer exercises. Instead, he spoke of a special ability to trust and believe God to do great miracles. Paul described this faith as the ability to move mountains. The allusion to Jesus’ words is evident (Mark 11:23). It would be astonishing for Paul to have had the ability to move mountains through his faith. Nevertheless, even this dramatic ability would amount to nothing without love for other
13:3. Fourth, Paul imagined himself giving all he possessed to the poor. This may allude to Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler (Mark 10:21), or it may refer to the early church’s practice of selling their possessions to feed the church (Acts 2:44–45). Paul, however, was not wealthy. He had also demonstrated his willingness to go hungry and homeless. In all likelihood, Paul focused more on the benefit to others that such an act would produce, not on the sacrifice. Even such a beneficial act would profit him nothing if he did not do it out of love.
Fifth, Paul imagined that he might surrender his body to the flames. Some textual evidence supports an alternative reading followed by the NRSV: “hand over my body so that I may boast.” It seems most likely that he imagined a situation of religious persecution in which he would be called upon to die. Or, Paul may have thought of his own trials and persecutions short of death. The words, I gain nothing, may apply to one situation as well as to the other.
Throughout this portion of the chapter, Paul addressed several hypothetical situations in which he might do the most remarkable things imaginable. It seems commonsensical that these experiences should have value in themselves. But Paul responded that without Christian love these experiences amount to nothing, just like the person who performs them.
Paul followed Jesus, who placed “love your neighbor as yourself” second only to “love the Lord your God” (Matt. 22:37–40). The command to love one another is the second most important law of Scripture. It is no wonder Paul argued that without love for others all spiritual gifts are worthless.


Abingdon New Testament Commentaries | 1 Corinthians
By Richard A. Horsley

In verses 1-3, presenting himself as a hypothetical example, Paul first mockingly exaggerates both the Corinthians' favorite spiritual gifts and his own central values and commitment, and then suddenly deflates them. Perhaps by rehearing the words and phrases stacked one upon another, we may sense the exaggeration and excess (in italics): "If I speak with the tongues of men, and even of angels . . . ; if I possess prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains' and “if I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my own body' (AT). Moreover, angels always have a hyperbolic function in Paul's letters (cf. 4:9; Gal 1:8; 4:14), and “to remove mountains' is a grotesque metaphor, and actually giving over one's body in martyrdom did not come into prominence until several generations later. Paul's own tongue is squarely in his cheek as he dictates.
The textual variants in verse 3 may signal yet another aspect of Paul's irony. "Boast' is the oldest and most difficult reading. But the meaning? A possible way of reading the NRSV's primary translation is to understand Paul as mocking his own practice of devoting his whole life and energy to his mission. Another possibility is to read it as an aside: "let me boast just for once.” In that case, Paul would be distancing himself from his suddenly high-blown "genre,' poking fun at his temporarily grandiloquent style and pretentious offering of sublime ideas.
On the other side of the deflation, “but do not have love,' he is clearly mocking his own emphasis on faith and his own poverty and refusal to accept support (see on 9:15) as well as the Corinthians' excitement over tongues and their passion for gnosis. Even if one had all knowledge she or he would be nothing (cf. 1:26-29). Even if he sacrifices his own life he gains nothing.

Fanning the Flame: Probing the Issues in Acts
By Mark E. Moore

The second key passage is 1 Corinthians 13:1. Here Paul mentions angelic tongues. If Paul spoke in angelic tongues, should we not also expect to? There’s the catch -- Paul never claimed to speak in an angelic tongue.[17] 1 Corinthians 13:1 is both hypothetical and hyperbolic. In other words, Paul is exaggerating to make a point. This hypothetical angelic tongue begins a series of statements contrasting the value of super-miraculous stuff with the superior value of love. The fact is, Paul never "knew all mysteries,” "moved mountains,” "gave all his possessions to the poor,” or "offered his body to be burned.” If he did not do anything else in his hypothetical/hyperbolic list, why should we assume he spoke in the language of an angel? Is it possible that he did? Certainly. Is it certain that he did? Hardly. To base the dominant exercise of glossolalia on such a nebulous statement is tenuous.

First Corinthians
By Raymond F. Collins, Daniel J. Harrington

Along with the rhetorical devices of gradation Paul's argument profits from the use of metaphor, including hyperbole, which is a kind of metaphor (cf. Aristotle, Art of Rhetoric 3.11.15), and comparison. Verse 1 uses the striking metaphors of angelic speech and sounding brass to speak of the gift of tongues, a charism Paul himself enjoyed.
...
1. If I speak in the tongues of humans and even of angels, and do not have love: Paul begins his digression on love with a reference to ordinary speech and speaking in tongues. Speaking (cf. ch. 14) is the counterpoint of what he will have to say about love. The gift of speaking in tongues was quite visible and highly esteemed among the Corinthians. Paul claimed that he had the ability to speak in tongues even more than the Corinthians did (14:6, 18). J. G. Sigountos ("Genre," 252) takes "and of angels" as a hyperbolic expression, but Paul's phrase appears to designate the phenomenon of speaking in tongues. Parallels in the Testament of Job confirm that this is the connotation of Paul's phrase. His mode of expression follows a kind of "from the lesser to the greater" rhetorical construction in the form of gradation. His use of the rhetorical device of klimax emphasizes the gift of speaking in tongues.


1 Corinthians: An Exegetical and Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture (New American Commentary)
Mark Taylor

The first unit, 13:1-3, opens with three parallel conditional clauses' and a threefold assertion that apart from love spiritual gifts amount to nothing. Paul affirms that though he could speak with languages, both human and divine, possess prophetic powers, fathom all mysteries and knowledge, have mountain moving faith, benevolently give to the poor, and give his body in sacrifice, he is nothing if he does not have love. Whereas the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues occur last in the previous list of gifts, here tongues occurs first. The reason may be linked to Paul's rhetorical strategy, a progression from the lesser to the greater (cf. 12:31, "eagerly desire the greater gifts).
Tongues is mentioned first here because it is the least beneficial when uninterpreted. The repetition of the phrase "but have not love" elevates love above all gifts as "the most excellent Way" (12:31b).

13:1. Paul begins by hypothetically claiming that if he could speak with the tongues of men and of angels he is nothing if he does not have love. While it is possible that the phrase "tongues of men" refers to human eloquence' and "tongues of angels" refers to the gift of tongues, it is more likely in context that Paul refers only to the spiritual gift of tongues (languages) and heightens the rhetorical impact by referring to "tongues of angels" by way of hyperbole. This is not to say that there is no such thing as a "heavenly tongue," or to deny that the Corinthians themselves may have thought of the gift of tongues in this way. The point of Paul's statement is not to establish different kinds of tongues' but rather to emphasize that the gift, if exercised apart from love, is meaningless noise.' The ambiguity of Paul's reference to the "resounding gong" or "clanging cymbal" has resulted in a number of possible interpretations. However, even if the reference is somewhat ambiguous, the essential meaning of the hypothetical example is clear. The term translated "gong" by the NIV was used of various kinds of metals but mainly bronze or brass. Based on a few references in Greco-Roman literature, Harris and Klein suggest that Paul refers to the acoustic vase used in the theaters in order to project and amplify sound. Portier-Young has recently challenged this interpretation by suggesting that both the resounding brass (gong) and the clanging cymbal describe the same thing. The clanging cymbal simply clarifies what is intended by the resounding gong. In the biblical tradition the cymbal was never played solo but always in conjunction with other instruments. By using the metaphor Paul is urging the tongues-speakers to use their gifts for the edification of the church.' Still others suggest that Paul intends comparison instead of disjunction so that the text should read, "I have become as sounding brass rather than a resounding cymbal."' Some see in the mention of the "clanging cymbal" a reference to pagan worship.'

13:2. From tongues Paul moves on to prophecy, knowledge, and faith. Knowing all mysteries may be a separate gift from prophecy, but it could also be coordinate with it. In others words, prophecy includes insight into the mysteries of God. Paul, of course, does not know all mysteries nor does he possess all knowledge (13:9). He clearly exaggerates to make a point and presents a hypothetical scenario. Paul did have the gift of prophecy, he did have insight into the mysteries disclosed in the gospel, and he did possess great faith, even to the point of effecting miracles (Acts 14:3; 16:16–24; 19:11; 28:3–6; Rom 15:19; 2 Cor 12:12). In 14:6 Paul hypothetically describes himself as bringing teaching, revelation, knowledge, and prophecy to the Corinthians in assembly (cf. 14:37–38). In his mission to Corinth Paul announced the "mystery of God" (2:1). He, along with other apostles and gifted prophets (teachers), taught God's hidden wisdom (2:7) and were stewards (administrators) of the mysteries of God (4:1). Even in the letter itself, Paul makes known a "mystery" regarding the transformation of believer's mortal bodies (15:51; see also Rom 11:25; 16:25; 2 Thess 2:7). The reference to a faith that could remove mountains, an idiom for great faith, resonates with the teaching of Jesus and may be derived from it (see Matt 17:1920; 21:21; Mark 1:22-24; Luke 17:6). Even though Paul possessed these gifts, the repetition of the word "all" functions as hyperbole to make a point.' Paul is saying that even if he possessed these gifts in perfection, without love he would be nothing.
13:3. In the third and final hypothetical example Paul asserts that even the ultimate in self-sacrifice profits nothing apart from love. The giving away of one's possessions, even the offering of one's very life apart from love ultimately profits nothing. This Verse Contains One of the most difficult textual Variants in the New Testament. The NIV reads, "and surrender my body to the flames" (cf. NASB, "surrender my body to be burned"). The more recent NIV2011 (cf. also the NRSV, HCSB) follows the editors of the Greek New Testament and adopts a variant reading, "and give over my body to hardship, that I may boast."
The Greek terms for "burn" and "boast" are very close in the Greek.' Many agree that "boast" is the more likely reading, although there are significant detractors.' If "boasting" is the correct reading, what does Paul mean, especially in a letter where boasting is one of the key problems in Corinth? Although Paul often refers to boasting disparagingly, he also uses the term on occasion with reference to his ministry (2 Cor 8:24; Phill 2:16; 1 Thess 2:19; also Rom 5:2-3; 1 Cor 1:29-31; 9:15; 2 Cor 2:14). Fee, who is a proponent of this interpretation, suggests that in 13:3 "this final item is most likely a genuine reflection on his own ministry, in which he is referring to the kinds of bodily sufferings of which he "boasts' in 2 Cor 11:23-29 and 12:10, which also help to bring about his greater "boast,' their salvation." Another intriguing aspect of this passage is the mention of giving possessions and giving oneself, either in martyrdom or for the cause of the gospel, alongside the spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, knowledge, and faith. Does Paul consider extreme sacrifice to be a gift of the Spirit? Ciampa and Rosner think so, "The Context makes clear that the actions mentioned here are understood to reflect the practice of spiritual gifts ... not as clear whether or not they are embodiments of one or two of the gifts mentioned in 12:8-10 or 12:28-30." Whether or not 13:3 should be understood as a "gift" in the traditional sense, I would submit that such actions are most certainly a "manifestation of the Spirit." We may sometimes think too narrowly in restricting a "spiritual gift" to something possessed.

A Bible Handbook to the Acts of the Apostles
By Mal Couch

It has been suggested that Paul allows for a second kind of tongues when he speaks of the "tongues of angels," that is, ecstatic utterances (1 Cor. 13:1). However, the word glossa is not used to speak of ecstatic utterances in any other place, and such a definition here would be against the established meaning of the word. Even if glossa were used of ecstatic utterances, that does not establish the fact that this is what is meant by the tongues of angels. That would be a rather large leap in logic because we do not know if angels speak in a language that is significantly different from human languages. Could it be that they speak in one of our human languages?
Anytime angels speak in the Bible it is in a language that is known to the human hearers, even in the case of the apostle John, who heard them speak in heaven in the book of Revelation. Furthermore, it must be remembered that the apostle Paul is using hyperbole (hypothetical exaggeration) in 1 Corinthians 13. In that chapter, he is simply emphasizing the essential place of love in the use of spiritual gifts. He states that, even if he knew everything or gave his body to be burned and he did it without love, then such matters would be without value.
The fact of the matter is that Paul did not know everything, did not give his body to be burned, and did not speakin an angelic language. It is unwise to build a doctrinal position on hypothetical exaggeration, particularly when it makes one go against the established meaning of words. It is best to conclude that the gift of tongues is the ability to speak in known human languages which are unknown to the speaker and to avoid the inclusion of ecstatic utterances in the definition.

Keep in Step with the Spirit
By J I Packer

Of a piece with Kuyper's guess is the view, often met, that Paul saw Christian glossolalia as "tongues of angels" (1 Cor. 13:1), angelic as distinct from human language. But while this, like so much else that is proposed in the discussion of 1 Corinthians 12–14, is not absolutely impossible, Paul's words in 13:1 are sufficiently explained as a rhetorical hyperbole meaning simply "no matter how wonderful a performance my glossolalia may be."

Ecstatic Utterances
R Gundry

Even more to the point, if one reads further it becomes apparent that the speaking in tongues of angels does not at all have to indicate factual reality in Paul’s mind (Paul uses ean . with the subjunctive throughout verses 1-3) and indeed probably does not: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, ... if I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned ... ( Cor xiii.2f., italics mine). As matters of fact, Paul does not claim to possess all prophetic insight and knowledge or to have all faith or to have given up all his possessions or to have delivered his body to be burned (obviously not, since he is writing a letter!). These are "suppose-so" statements only partially true of Paul's experience. By the same token, although Paul claims to speak in tongues, it is not necessary to infer that he claims to speak in the tongues of angels. In fact, the analogy of the following parallel expressions indicates that he does not here claim to do so. Speaking with the tongues of angels corresponds to the unreal "all's" in the succeeding statements. In other words, just as Paul lays claim to some prophetic insight (so chapter xiv) but not all, so also he writes that he miraculously speaks in some foreign languages (tongues of men) but not in all (for he does not speak in angelic tongues). His argumentative point is that even if the latter were true, it would still be profitless without love.'

First Corinthians (Paideia: Commentaries on the New Testament)
By Pheme Perkins

The phrase could be poetic hyperbole on Paul’s part, a way of saying that no speech, human or heavenly, counts for anything without love (Fitzmyer 2008, 492). Or it could be an allusion to Jewish mystical traditions in which a visionary ascends into the heavens and hears or participates in angelic Worship. Paul claims a comparable experience but refuses to (or cannot) disclose its content in 2 Cor. 12:1-4: “I heard the unutterable words that human beings are not permitted to utter" (12:4). The comparison of speech without love to a chalkos echon (noisy bronze) is not necessarily referring to a particular instrument (often translated "gong,” so NRSV). Bronze plates often served as sounding boards or amplification for various instruments in theaters (Vitruvius, De architectura 5.3.8; Fitzmyer 2008, 492).

Miraculous Gifts: Are They for Today?
By Thomas R. Edgar

A careful reading of the passage shows that Paul does not state that he or anyone else speaks or has ever spoken the languages of angels. He says, "If I speak the tongues of men and angels." This is the first in a series of three parallel statements (verses 1-3) all of which begin with "if" (Ean, if, verse 1; kai eam, and if, verse 2; kan, and is, verse 3). The "if" presents:
... mere objective possibility connected with the future, "If I should speak with the tongues of men and of angels," not "Though I speak" (AV). . . . "Supposing that I had all the powers of earthly and heavenly utterance."
Each of the parallel statements begins with "if" and ends with the expression "but I do not have love. . . ." The first part of each is a hyperbole (exaggeration) referring to a spiritual gift or quality and to an extreme or theoretical example of its application. The statement, therefore, points out that not only exercise of the gift or spiritual quality apart from love is profitless to the exerciser, but even using it to such exaggerated or extreme (theoretical) use is also profitless. This argument is clearest in the second example (verse 2), where Paul says, "If I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." The first part of the statement, "If I have prophecy," refers to something (prophecy) which Paul and others actually had.
However, the second part, "and if I know all mysteries and all knowledge" refers to that which no one exercises or will exercise. In this very passage (verse 9) Paul states that now (in this life) we only have partial prophecy and partial knowledge. No one knows all mysteries and all knowledge. This second part of the hyperbole continues with the statement, "if I have all faith so that I move mountains." This also is a theoretical extreme which no one possesses or exercises. Prophecy is the basic gift; "knowing all mysteries and all knowledge" and "having all faith" are the hypothetical, unobtainable extremes or exaggerations which Paul uses to convey his point that even such exaggerated cases would profit nothing apart from love. The basic gift is first; the extremes are then connected by "and." In effect Paul says, "If I have prophecy and even if I could go all the way to the extreme of knowing all mysteries and knowledge, and having all faith so that I could move mountains, and did not have love, I am nothing." The third example (verse 3) functions in the same way, thereby supporting this interpretation. Paul states, "If I donate all of my possessions (Paul may have done this-cf. Philippians 3:8)" and I hand over my body to be burned (Paul had not actually done so), but I do not have love . . . ." While it is not impossible to do so, Paul had not performed the more extreme of these examples (handing over his body to be burned). The first action is probable; the second is connected to the first by "and;" it is an extreme action even if a possibility.' This same structure functions in Paul's first example: "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels." "Tongues of men" refers to the basic gift or quality. Connected to this by "and," the expression "tongues of angels" refers to the exaggeration or hypothetical extreme which is impossible to do, or at least which Paul has not done. Paul says, "If I exercise the gift of tongues and, in fact, could even go to such an extreme as to speak angel language, it means nothing (it is mere noise) apart from love." Each of these three examples is parallel in structure and in thought. The second is very clear. The fact that the three fit the same pattern is definite evidence that they are all, in fact, examples of hyperbole. Each of the three begins with "if" and an example of a probable spiritual activity. In each case this is followed by an extreme or hypothetical spiritual activity (connected to the first statement by "and"). Each of the examples closes with the statement "but I do not have love." Paul uses these three examples to prove his point that even if he could go to such unusual extremes, apart from love, there would be no profit to him. The extremes are: "speaking in angel languages"; "knowing all mysteries and all knowledge and having all faith"; and "giving the body to be burned." The second item, as we have seen, is impossible. The third is very rare, and Paul himself had not done so. Paul refers to the first item (speaking in the tongues of angels) in the same way as the others-i.e., as a theoretical possibility or at the least something he had not practiced. This is the obvious sense of Paul's discussion in I Corinthians 13: 1-3.
As matters of fact, Paul does not claim to possess all prophetic insight and knowledge or to have all faith or to have given up all his possessions or to have delivered his body to be burned (obviously not, since he is writing a letter!). These are "suppose-so" statements only partially true of Paul's experience. By the same token, although Paul claims to speak in tongues, it is not necessary to infer that he claims to speak in the tongues of angels. In fact, the analogy of the following parallel expressions indicates that he does not here claim to do so. Speaking with the tongues of angels corresponds to the unreal "all's" in the succeeding statements. In other words, just as Paul lays claim to some prophetic insight (so chapter xiv) but not all, so also he writes that he miraculously speaks in some foreign languages (tongues of men) but not in all (for he does not speak in angelic tongues). His argumentative point is that even if the latter were true, it would still be profitless without love.' Rather than proof that Paul spoke in "angel" or "heavenly" languages, this passage is evidence that he spoke in the "tongues (languages of men."

Speaking in Tongues
Gerhard Hasel

We must recognize that Paul spoke hypothetically in 1 Cor 13:1 as the Greek conditional clause indicates. Paul uses the conditional participle ean followed by the subjunctive. This type of conditional clause in the Greek language is one that does not speak about reality. Paul seems to say with hyperbole that if all linguistic possibilities including angelic speech were at his disposal and yet he lacked love it would mean nothing. The supposition is that Paul does not speak in the tongue of angels

Showing the Spirit
D A Carson

The construction of the first clause 22 probably signals intensity toward the end: "If I speak in the tongues of men and even of angels. . . ." It is not clear whether either Paul or his readers thought their gifts of tongues were the dialects of angels. A few interesting Jewish parallels make this possible;23 but Paul may be writing hyperbolically to draw as sharp a contrast as possible with love. I suppose a pedant might argue that they cannot be the tongues of angels, because in that case it would be silly for tongues to cease when perfection comes since that is precisely when we are more likely to encounter angels! But I shall leave the question as to what language or languages we shall speak in the new heaven and on the new earth to those more gifted in speculation than I. Paul's point is relatively simple. No matter how exalted my gift of tongues, without love I am nothing more than a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
...
Certainly verse 2 finds Paul playing with hypothetical superlatives. He himself does not think that any prophet "can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge," since he goes on to say that at present "we know in part and we prophesy in part" (13:9). If there is a difference between"mysteries" and "knowledge" in this context, the former refers to the eschatological situation and the latter to the entire redemptive purpose of God; but Paul may not be making nice distinctions. 126 The point is that even the gift of prophecy, no matter how much reliable information comes from it, is intrinsically valueless if it operates without love. So also the gift of faith—as in 12:9, this refers not to saving faith but to something more specialized, such as the faith that can move mountains—has no intrinsic value. Again, however, Paul's conclusion is even more shattering: not only are the spiritual gifts exercised without love of no value, but, says Paul, "I am nothing"—"spiritually a cipher"127 But Paul is not content to draw examples only from the more spectacular or "miraculous" of the you o foucato (charismata). In verse 3 he goes on to incredibly self-sacrificing philanthropy 28 and even personal martyrdom by fiery ordeal (if that reading is adopted as correct), 29 like the martyrdom of Maccabean Jews130 or the three heroes of Daniel 3:28. The result is the same: without love, gain nothing. My deeds of philanthropy and my resolute determination to remain loyal to the truth even in the face of martyrdom cannot in themselves attest my high spiritual position or the superiority of my experiences with the Holy Spirit. In all of this, if there is no love, gain nothing.

Understanding Spiritual Gifts: A Verse-by-verse Study of 1 Corinthians 12-14
by Robert L. Thomas

13:1 - Futility of tongues Without love. First, attention in combating overemphasis on spiritual gifts naturally goes to what the Corinthians had misconstrued the most, the gift of tongues. Paul uses himself to illustrate and create a hypothetical case, one that had not and could not become actual. He pictures a situation of personally possessing the gift of tongues to the extent of being able to speak the languages of all men everywhere. He even goes beyond this and conceives of an ability to communicate in celestial languages of angels as Well, whatever these languages might be (see 2 Cor. 12:4 and Rev. 14:2-3 for possible examples). Here is a case of ultimate linguistic ability that was never realized by Paul or anyone else (though Paul was richly endowed along this line, 1 Cor. 14:18). This is clearly beyond any claim the readers could make about their own facility with tongues.

Prophecy and Inspired Speech in Early Christianity
Christopher Forbes

The following contentions are advanced in favour of (a): the parallel with Luke suggests a priori that a miraculous gift of language is intended, as does the closely related terminology. The Greek y\Gooa, like the English "tongue", can mean little else in this context, and the related gift, "interpretation" (1 Corinthians 12.30, 14.5, 13, etc.), is most naturally understood in its primary sense of (inspired) "translation". Paul's explicit statement, "If I speak in the tongues of men and angels" (13.1) is clearly central here. Likewise important is his argument that "If I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner (Bdipfbapos) to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me" (14.11). It is further urged that the plain meaning of Paul's quotation from Isaiah 28. 11-12, in ch. 14.20ff, has to do with foreign languages.
Clearly the case in favour of angelic languages also appeals to several of these passages, though 1 Corinthians 13.1a, "the tongues of men", is something of a puzzle, unless it is understood only as a parallel to ch. 14 vv. 7-8, "even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp", and the language metaphor is de-emphasised. This case is usually urged with reference to the belief in divine languages in the Hellenistic world (for which see Chapter 7), or the belief in angelic languages expressed in some Jewish intertestamental works (for which see the Appendix). Those who wish to argue that only angelic languages (not some unspecified mixture of angelic and human languages) are what Paul intends his readers to understand are compelled to ignore 1 Corinthians 13.1a, "the tongues of men", or avoid its force by arguing it means non-glossolalic speech. Those who wish to argue in favour of human languages only must argue that 13.1b, "and angels", is hyperbole, in parallel with understanding "all mysteries and all knowledge", and surrendering one's body to the flames, in vv. 2-3.
It would seem to me that the widely held view that Paul must primarily mean heavenly languages is implausible, being as it is based heavily on the phrase "and angels" in 1 Corinthians 13.1, which does look like a rhetorical flourish. "Or even those of angels" may well be the sense Paul intended here: clearly his is not really claiming "all mysteries and all knowledge", or to have sold all that he has. The Jewish parallels for the concept of angelic languages are interesting but not finally convincing (see the Appendix for further discussion), and the theory puts altogether too much weight on one flimsy exegetical peg." Dunn's supporting argument, that "the analogy Paul uses in 14.10f between glossolalia and foreign language cannot be taken as evidence that Paul thought of glossolalia as foreign language" (a very similar suggestion is made by C.G. Williams, Tongues of the Spirit, Cardiff, 1981, p. 31) seems to me entirely false. Foreign languages, or, more precisely, the miraculous ability to speak foreign languages otherwise unknown to the speaker (the analogy, pace Williams, is not mere redundancy) is precisely what it suggests. It is true that one does not draw analogies between like phenomena, but between unlike; Paul is comparing naturally known languages with what he sees as special gifts of languages. Our two main contenders are unlearned human languages, as in Luke (and perhaps angelic languages as well), and inarticulate speech. Here I think the weight of argument inclines to the side of the "languages" interpretation. The common "inarticulate speech" view may be able to explain Paul's reference to speakers in different languages as being foreigners one to another as mere metaphor, like the reference to musical instruments. But the reference to "tongues of men" in 1 Corinthians 13.1 can hardly be so explained, and if it is allowed to remain, the presumption must be strong that Paul's reference to speakers of mutually foreign languages implies that foreign languages were what he thought glossolalists spoke. The point of the comparison with unclear bugle calls then becomes their failure to communicate, rather than simply their lack of clarity. Further, this interpretation is quite capable of taking up the positive points made in favour of the "inarticulate speech" view. Glossolalic languages spoken without love - that is, in an inconsiderate and arrogant fashion, as proof of spiritual achievement - might as well be just noise for all the good they do to the community.41

First Corinthians
By George T. Montague

By human and angelic tongues Paul is probably using hyperbole, intentional exaggeration, and the order of the Greek words even suggests that "if I speak with all the languages known to humanity, and even all the languages used by angels.” Angels praise God (Pss 103:20; 148:2), and a Jewish tradition held that they had their own languages. But angels were also bearers of heavenly messages. Thus the Corinthians might think that it is angelic language they are speaking when speaking in tongues, either to praise God or to convey a heavenly message. Interpretation, then (see 14:5), would be a rendering of the angelic prayer or message in understandable human language. In any case, the point is how useless such tongues would be without love.

Thessalonians, Corinthians, Galatians and Romans
J. W. McGarvey and Philip Y. Pendleton

[The apostle first compares love with that gift of tongues in which the Corinthians took so much [127] pride. The comparison shows that speaking with tongues, even if it were exercised in an unexampled manner, is utter emptiness unless accompanied by love. The gift of tongues, even when it attained its highest conceivable development, is inferior to the language of angels; but even if one spoke with all the gifts of language human or divine, his word, if loveless, would be but a vainglorious noise, or sounds without soul or feeling; such as come from pounding on some brazen gong or basin, or from cymbals, which are the lowest, most monotonous, least expressive of all musical instruments.

Modern-Day Miracles, Tongue-Speaking, and Holy Spirit Baptism - Apologetics Press
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

One final point on the matter of the “tongues of angels” merits mention. Even if the expression actually refers to angelic tongues that are nonhuman, it still is likely that tongue-speakers were incapable of speaking such languages. Why? Paul was speaking hypothetically and hyperbolically. No human being (with the exception of perhaps Jesus) has ever been able to speak in all human languages. For Paul to suggest such was to pose a hypothetical situation. It was to exaggerate the facts. So Paul’s meaning was: “even if I were capable of speaking all human languages—which I’m not.” Likewise, no human being has ever been able to speak the tongues of angels. So Paul’s meaning was: “even if I were capable of speaking the languages of angels—which I’m not.” This conclusion is supported further by the verse that follows the reference to the “tongues of angels.” There, Paul used two additional hypothetical events when he said, “if I…know all mysteries and all knowledge” and “if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains” (1 Corinthians 13:2). But no one on the planet (with the exception of deity) has understood all mysteries and all knowledge, nor has had faith that could literally remove mountains. Again, Paul was merely saying, “even if I could do such things—which I can’t.”

First Corinthians
B Ward Powers

If ἐάν (ean), the Greek hypothetical if which, as Alford's commentary explains, supposes a case which never has been exemplified. The tongues of men (ἄνθρωπος, anthropon) mean the actual languages spoken by human beings; and similarly and of angels would indicate speaking the language of angels. And note that certainly this is not something which Paul is claiming he can do.

The Problem Tongues in 1 Cor 14: A Reexamination
By B Zerhusen

First, careful examination of 1 Corinthians 14 reveals no references to "heaven" or "angels." We would expect some reference to such a fantastic ability of it were being practiced by the Corinthian language-speakers. All we have, however-and we shall examine it shortly-is a reference to angelic languages in 1 Corinthians 13:1.
...
Fourth, proponents of this view may appeal to Judean sources such as the Testament of Job as evidence that the problem languages of Corinth were angelic languages. Forbes observes that this work may have been redacted by Montanists, Christians, or Gnostics (183-87). There is another problem with appeals to Judean tradition and belief about angelic language. In Judean tradition there is also a belief that as the "holy tongue," Hebrew is the language (singular) of heaven. Harry M. Orlinsky provides an example of this mentality:
The idea that God and the angels spoke Hebrew is, of course, biblically derived ... what other language was employed in the Garden of Eden, and before the Fall and Dispersion of Man? ... and reference to this fact is found also, e.g., in the book of Jubilees, one of the oldest books in the Jewish 144 apocryphal literature. So that we should not be surprised when we learn that an l lth-century monk, who was getting old enough to realize that his days on earth were numbered, began hurriedly to study Hebrew, for he knew that after he died and went to heaven, he would have to speak and understand Hebrew, Biblical Hebrew, if he wanted to converse with the angels and with the notable worthies who had preceded him from this earth [426].
Why should the Testament of Job be determinative rather than the Hebrew as the language of heaven tradition ?

Careful examination of 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 indicates a clear pattern found in all three verses. Paul beings with an actual ability or action ("speaking in the languages of men," " "prophesying," "having faith," "giving possessions"), which he then takes to the extreme ("speaking the languages of angels," "knowing all mysteries and having all knowledge," "moving mountains," "giving my body to be burned") to make the rhetorical and practical point that even at the zenith of the spectrum, without love these things are profitless. If this is a valid analysis of the Greek construction of 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, we also have a major clue about the gift of languages and translation (1 Cor 12:10, 28, 30): these were abilities that involved human languages.

1 Corinthians
Simon J. Kistemaker

a. “If I speak in the tongues of men, even those of angels.” With this conditional statement, Paul indicates that he himself does not engage in tongue-speaking in public worship (14:19). He appears to be saying, “Suppose that I as the Lord’s apostle have the highest possible gift of tongues, those that men use, and those even that angels use—how you Corinthians would admire, even envy me and desire to have an equal gift!”2
The word tongues can be understood to mean known languages; but in context it appears to mean tongue-speech, which some Corinthians regarded as heavenly speech. We do not know what supernatural language angels speak (compare II Cor. 12:4; Rev. 14:1—3) or whether angels are able to understand human speech.3 Conversely, angels communicate with people in human terms that are frequently recorded in both the Old and New Testaments.

Glossolalia: The Gift of Tongues
By Dr. Nathan Ogan

If the expression "tongues of men and angels" (1 Corinthians 13:1) be appealed to, it is sufficient to note that the first three verses of the chapter have a pronounced hyperbolic character. While angels no doubt have languages of their own, the apostle no more implies that he expects the readers to use them than that he expects them to give their bodies to be burned (verse 3).'


Speaking in Tongues
Watson E. Mills

As regards the "tongues of angels" in this context, Paul does speak of the tongues of men as well. Further, ean with subjunctive, "if I speak in the tongues of angels," would not necessarily suggest factual reality; the supposition is that Paul does not speak in the tongue of angels, just as he has not all the powers to prophesy etc.


Exploring 1 Corinthians: An Expository Commentary
By John Phillips

Paul begins here with the need for love (1 Cor. 13:1-3). He raises two problems. First, there is the possibility one might possess great gifts-without love (13:1-2). For instance, one might possess great gifts of communication (13:1a). He might possess the ability to speak different tongues: "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (v. 1). The case is only supposed. The word though (if) is followed by the subjunctive mood, and it expresses a hypothetical but possible condition. The future will prove whether or not such was the case. The languages are known languages (Acts 2:7-8), human languages. We have no way of knowing whether or not angels speak a heavenly language, of their own. There is no reason why they should not do so. Paul is simply saying that although he were able to speak such a lofty language that in itself would prove nothing. The acid test of genuine Christianity is not language but love.

Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament
By Daniel B. Wallace

The fourfold condition is used in a broad way. Paul builds his argument from the actual (he does have prophetic powers) to the hypothetical (he does not understand all mysteries or have all knowledge [otherwise, he would be omniscient!]). This is his pattern for the first three verses of 1 Cor 13: to argue from the actual to the hypothetical. It is therefore probable that Paul could speak in the tongues of human beings, but not in the tongues of angels (v1). 1 Cor 13:1 then, offers no comfort for those who view tongues as a heavenly language.

1 Corinthians, 2010
Ciampa & Rosner

13: 1 This verse has played a remarkable role in some modern discussions of the viewpoints of the Corinthians and their theological problems. Those who conclude that the Corinthians were suffering from an overrealized eschatology have found in this verse a hint that they may have thought that by speaking in tongues they were already participating in angelic experience as all believers would upon the resurrection from the dead. This thought, that some Corinthians aspired to or imagined themselves to be participating in angelic life and experience, is also considered to be related to their abstinence from sexual relationships (7:1), among other things.22 We find the texts employed in support of such interpretations to have more convincing interpretations that do not depend on overrealized eschatology as the key background issue.
Some interpreters have suggested that by speaking in human or angelic tongues Paul refers to "sublime oratory," picking up on the theme of wise and lofty speech from the first two chapters. 23
There does not seem to be any reason to think we are restricted to just one or the other [human or angelic languages], although the rhetorical pattern would suggest that speaking in tongues would most frequently entail speaking of (unknown) human languages, with the ability to speak angelic languages seen as an even more wonderful version or extension of the same gift.

As five of the scholars that you have quoted are also ones that I have included, where these five either agree with me completely or offer strong sympathy to the majority understanding that Paul is employing conditional statements which are being governed by either love or a lack of love (hypothetical speech), then it goes to show that it is always wise to spend some time in careful research as it is easy to make mistakes just as you have done with these particular commentaries.

Ciampa/Rosner(2010), Horsley (1998), Phillips (2002), Forbes (1995), Kistemaker (1993)

Mind you, I am only providing information from commentaries on First Corinthians that I do not own where I can digitise the entirety of chapters 12, 13 &14 as it can be difficult at times to fully understand what a given commentator means in 1Cor 13:1-3 without referring to chapters 12 and 14, which is why I am scouring through a Christian college library instead of relying on brief samples from Google Books. It can not only be difficult to work out what a Continuist scholar means in either chapters 12, 13 or 14 without reference to his complete commentary, but this can be become particularly problematic with cessationist scholars as they are often writing from outside of the Biblical framework, so what often amounts to be a guess on their part in say chapter 13 will often need to be qualified in 12:3, 7-10, 28 and with 14:1-2.

The cessationist Daniel Wallace is interesting in that he acknowledges that Paul does indeed prophesy where he goes as far to say that with regard to prophecy his speech is in fact actual and not hyperbole. Wallace oddly enough says that Paul moves from the actual (prophecy) to the hypothetical and as he has misused the term hypothetical I will need to try and source his book or some other pieces of his works to see what he really means by hypothetical, where he probably meant to use hyperbole; it was a shame that his editors did not notice his grammatical error before his book was published.

Even though I have not included the commentary by Pheme Perkins, as I do not have a copy of her book, she is also interesting in that she appears to be employing the expression ‘poetic-hyperbole’ to say that for Paul, if he were to fail to employ love, that no matter what grace or fruit of the Spirit he exhibits then these things would not benefit him.

One of the absolute joys of this particular study on 1Cor 13 has been with the ability of not only be able to refer to my own reasonably sizable library on First Corinthians, but with how I have been able to freely access a wealth of information from the Christian college. Having now gone through much of the material I have obtained, the following footnote to 13:1 is a brief summary of the opinions of a number of peer-reviewed commentaries. What I did not expect from reading through over 40 commentaries is that many of them avoid the use of the terms hypothetical and hyperbole altogther:

[1] Commentaries on First Corinthians Johnson (2004) avoids using the terms hypothetical & hyperbole; conditional thesis conditioned by love; Prior (1985) avoids using the terms hypothetical & hyperbole; J.I. Packer (1984) rhetorical hyperbole;Grosshied (1953) p.288, a spiritual language that had its own sounds; F.F. Bruce (1971) avoids using the terms hypothetical & hyperbole; need not infer that the Corinthians were claiming to speak in angelic tongues; Kistemaker (1993) conditional clauses ‘without love’; Barnett (2000) avoids using the terms hypothetical and hyperbole; refers to ‘If I do not have love’; Soards (1999) avoids using the terms hyperbole and hypothetical; Garland (2003) hypothesis based on conditional clauses based on love; Thiselton (2000) Hypothesis based on love; Johnson (2004) conditional thesis ‘if love’; Ciampa/Rosner (2010) reject hyperbole and deem angelic tongues to be achievable; Fee (1987) avoids using the terms hypothetical & hyperbole; Carson (1987) tongues might be hyperbole but unsure, [cf. p.81]; Morris (1985) hypothetical possibilities [also see p.167]; Witherington (1995) pages 266-67 complicated use of hyperbole; Conzelman (1975) pgs.221-22 language of men and angels presupposes the apocalyptic world picture: Paul is presumably thinking of the language of angels; Barrett (1968) avoids use of hyperbole & hypothesis, compares all to love; Taylor (2014) tongues is hyperbole. This is not to say that there is no such thing as a “heavenly tongue”…; Barclay (1956) does not use the terms hyperbole or hypothetical, tongues is not defined; Horsley (1998) p.443 an encomium, does not use hyperbole or hypothesis, he contrasts all to love;​
 
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Actually, leaving aside the merits of the various translations, I will agree with you on this particular point. It seems that by taking Paul's broader address from the opening of 2 Cor 1:1 back into 1 Cor 1:2 I was saying more than Paul intended. We would not realise from 1Cor 1:2 that Paul had addressed First Corinthians to the churches within Southern Greece (incl. Athens) until we were to read Paul’s introduction to Second Corinthians, where he clarifies who the Epistles were being addressed to, which were the Churches throughout Achaia or Southern Greece which includes those areas below the Province of Macedonia, including the Peloponnese Peninsula and not only to those cities, towns and villages within the Corinthian Isthmus.

As you apparently view Paul’s writings to the Corinthians as being merely a personal letter and not an Epistle, where various others also say that the rest of his writings are only letters and not Epistles, then you are in the dilemma where you have to choose what parts of his Epistles (or letters in your case) that you want to accept or reject, where the Canon of Scripture only applies to what you want to believe applies to you.

I am glad you have come round to my way of thinking on this small point at least. There is hope for you yet. :prayer:

If you were to study the principles of hermeneutics you will soon realise that one of the most important factors in bible interpretation is to take into account the cultural and historical circumstances into which the author was writing. Realizing that Paul was addressing the specific problem in Corinth regarding tongues is key to understanding the individual verses of Chapter 14, rather than quoting them out of context.

You raise an important issue regarding what parts of the scriptures applies to us today. There is much confusion and division in the church today because people take passages which were given in relation to a certain historical age or to a particular audience, and from them formulate doctrines they think should apply universally today. For example there are recorded in scripture many amazing and miraculous events which were unique and necessary in the foundational period of the church and subsequently ceased, yet some people claim they should be normative for us today. Another example is Paul's instructions to slaves which clearly no longer applies to us today but we can still nonetheless learn a lesson from. While all of the Bible is divinely inspired truth the principles of which we can apply to our lives today, much of it was directed at specific audiences such as the "Church of God at Corinth" with all their specific attendant problems, as we saw. So yes it is imperative to take into consideration the historical era, culture, specific circumstances of the audience, etc to obtain the correct interpretation before exercising appropriate discernment as to if and how it applies to us today.

Why do you make reference to a single "Greek congregation" when the city precinct of Corinth was in fact a Latin city where Latin was the language of government and with the intelligentsia. Then we have the two extensive seaport suburbs of Lechaion to the North and Isthmia to the East where these two town/suburbs would have found the various Christian congregations hosting visitors from all over the Roman Empire, which is no surprise as the Corinthian Isthmus was the crossroads to the Roman Empire. This means that these congregations and the larger ones within the city centre of Corinth would have hosted many Christians from within many language groups.

It was a Greek congregation because Corinth was a Greek city, located in Greece, and inhabited by Greek citizens. Although Corinth was founded as a Roman colony in 44 BC, the population quickly grew from the influx of Greeks from the surrounding areas. By the time Paul wrote his epistle 100 years later, although Latin was still the language spoken by public officers and the social elite, the everyday language on the streets was predominantly Greek. Although the congregations may have had a couple of visiting foreigners wandering in from the nearby port towns of Lechaion and Cenchrea the majority of the congregations would have been Greek/Latin speaking locals.

Contrary to your "as the Scriptures make clear", the New Testament provides us with absolutely no hint as to the logistics of any local congregation or collection of regional congregations, none whatsoever. What we do know from the use of house within the New Testament, is that this can not only apply to both small and larger homes but to the grounds that surround these homes as well. Which means that even a small farm with a decent outdoor area that was suitable for a meeting place of several hundred people could be used for the local church particularly as the Mediterranean climate is often suited to this purpose.

Then you are obviously unfamiliar with verses such as Rom 16:5, Rom 16:23, 1 Cor 16:19, Col 4:15, Phlm 2, that clearly show that the early Christians met in people's homes. Nowhere does it suggest they met in other places such as halls or even amphitheaters as you once laughingly suggested. As to your idea they met in fields you seem to be unaware that the climate in Corinth is not exactly constant, with blisteringly hot sun in the summer and frequent heavy rain storms and a rather chilly average temperature of 10 degree Celcius in winter. And you may be surprised to know that they didn't have weather forecasts or telephones to make last minute arrangements or cancellations. So I'm afraid this idea of yours is rather laughable as well. As scripture says, and is commonly affirmed by bible historians, they met in people's homes.

Even supposing they did meet in large groups, to rule out tongues being a foreign language there would have to be a representative from every nation of the world within earshot of the tongues speaker to confirm the language wasn't theirs. Rather unlikely don't you think?

Is this really a serious question, how can you compare the three direct verses of Acts 2 with the maybe 32 direct verses on 1Cor 12, 13 & 14.

Show us where in those 32 verses it gives us a redefinition of what the gift actually is.

Thank you for your effort with the following commentaries. As a few of them were not peer-reviewed this meant that there was little value with looking at them, though I realised that I forgot to quote Daniel Wallace and if I can source his book I will undoubtedly include this important cessationist in the PDF.

An exegesis doesn't have to come from a peer-reviewed academic paper in order to be considered valid. We are contributing to a forum not writing seminary dissertations. Your explanation of 1 Cor 13:1-3 in post #69 was not peer reviewed, but I don't reject it for that reason. I reject it because your reasoning is flawed and there is a far more logical explanation which I posted in reply.

In any case, the commentaries I cited are published books or academic journals by seminary professors or respected authors. Those books would have gone through a rigorous editorial review process before publication. Publishers are not going to waste thousands of dollars typesetting and printings thousands of copies if what they print is rubbish and harms their reputation as a publisher.

Even though there are many commentators who clearly disagree with your interpretation and agree me, that is not what determines whether it is true or false. Whether a particular interpretation is true doesn't depend on whether a 'scholar' affirms it or not (that is the appeal to authority fallacy), but rather whether the interpretation is in fact the correct one. We can only determine that by carefully examining their respective exegeses (or anyone else's) and judging for ourselves whether it makes good sense, putting aside any preconceived ideas we may have.

At the end of day people can read your argument for tongues being the language of angels and compare it to my counter argument, together with the supporting commentaries if they wish, and then decide for themselves which makes the most sense.

As five of the scholars that you have quoted are also ones that I have included, where these five either agree with me completely or offer strong sympathy to the majority understanding that Paul is employing conditional statements which are being governed by either love or a lack of love (hypothetical speech), then it goes to show that it is always wise to spend some time in careful research as it is easy to make mistakes just as you have done with these particular commentaries.
Ciampa/Rosner(2010), Horsley (1998), Phillips (2002), Forbes (1995), Kistemaker (1993)

Your kidding right? None of those 5 commentaries agree with your assertion that tongues is the language of angels.

Ciampa & Rosner makes it absolutely clear they regard the normative version of tongues here to be human languages, with angelic languages being an unusual 'wonderful version'.

Horsley agrees with me entirely that Paul is "presenting himself as a hypothetical example, Paul first mockingly exaggerates....we may sense the exaggeration and excess..... a grotesque metaphor......Paul's own tongue is squarely in his cheek"

Phillips: "The case is only supposed....The languages are known languages (Acts 2:7-8), human languages....We have no way of knowing whether or not angels speak a heavenly language"

Forbes: "It would seem to me that the widely held view that Paul must primarily mean heavenly languages is implausible being as it is based heavily on the phrase "and angels" in 1 Corinthians 13.1, which does look like a rhetorical flourish.....clearly his is not really claiming "all mysteries and all knowledge or to have sold all that he has....But the reference to "tongues of men" in 1 Corinthians 13.1 can hardly be so explained, and if it is allowed to remain, the presumption must be strong that Paul's reference to speakers of mutually foreign languages implies that foreign languages were what he thought glossolalists spoke. "

Kistemaker: "He appears to be saying, “Suppose that I as the Lord’s apostle have the highest possible gift of tongues, those that men use, and those even that angels use—how you Corinthians would admire, even envy me and desire to have an equal gift!”

which is why I am scouring through a Christian college library instead of relying on brief samples from Google Books.

The fact there are so many commentaries found on Google Books which reject the idea of tongues being the language of angels shows how unpopular this view is, even among continuationists. I would expect unbridled access to all published books would easily reveal far more agreeing with me, rather than having to spend weeks hunting down obscure books in libraries in the hope of propping up my theory.

The cessationist Daniel Wallace is interesting in that he acknowledges that Paul does indeed prophesy where he goes as far to say that with regard to prophecy his speech is in fact actual and not hyperbole. Wallace oddly enough says that Paul moves from the actual (prophecy) to the hypothetical and as he has misused the term hypothetical I will need to try and source his book or some other pieces of his works to see what he really means by hypothetical, where he probably meant to use hyperbole; it was a shame that his editors did not notice his grammatical error before his book was published.

You seem to be missing Wallace's point. He is pointing out the obvious pattern in Paul's construction of these 5 statements. Each one begins with the normal operation of the gift "If I speak with the tongues of men","If I have the gift of prophecy","if I have all faith","if I give", and then extends them to an exaggerated hypothetical versions of them "and of angels", "and know all mysteries and all knowledge", "so as to remove mountains", "give all my possessions to feed the poor", "surrender my body to be burned" . The irony being that this passage actually supports the complete opposite of what you think it does - the normal operation of tongues is the "tongues of men" not the "tongues of angels".
 
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I am glad you have come round to my way of thinking on this small point at least. There is hope for you yet. :prayer:
Yes, it can be rather nice to be wrong on something on the odd occasion.

If you were to study the principles of hermeneutics you will soon realise that one of the most important factors in bible interpretation is to take into account the cultural and historical circumstances into which the author was writing. Realizing that Paul was addressing the specific problem in Corinth regarding tongues is key to understanding the individual verses of Chapter 14, rather than quoting them out of context.
The 'cultural and historical' aspects of Corinth are certainly important but as you have undoubtedly gained most of your information from me then you will probably have to spend a bit more time with my material before you say too much.

You raise an important issue regarding what parts of the scriptures applies to us today. There is much confusion and division in the church today because people take passages which were given in relation to a certain historical age or to a particular audience, and from them formulate doctrines they think should apply universally today. For example there are recorded in scripture many amazing and miraculous events which were unique and necessary in the foundational period of the church and subsequently ceased, yet some people claim they should be normative for us today. Another example is Paul's instructions to slaves which clearly no longer applies to us today but we can still nonetheless learn a lesson from. While all of the Bible is divinely inspired truth the principles of which we can apply to our lives today, much of it was directed at specific audiences such as the "Church of God at Corinth" with all their specific attendant problems, as we saw. So yes it is imperative to take into consideration the historical era, culture, specific circumstances of the audience, etc to obtain the correct interpretation before exercising appropriate discernment as to if and how it applies to us today.
As much as I hope that I do not fall for the fallacy of 'picking and choosing what I want to believe', when it comes to the material within First Corinthians in particular, I know that I have a particular attraction to the various Corinthian congregations as they seem to be more contemporary at times than we are. When we read First Corinthians it is as if we are viewing the Western Church through the mirror of Corinth where their behaviour seems so similar to ours. I would imagine that if many of us were translated back to Corinth of the first century that we would probably feel quite at home, where they of course have the benefit of not being annoyed by mobile phones but the lack of colour TV could be an issue.

It was a Greek congregation because Corinth was a Greek city, located in Greece, and inhabited by Greek citizens. Although Corinth was founded as a Roman colony in 44 BC, the population quickly grew from the influx of Greeks from the surrounding areas. By the time Paul wrote his epistle 100 years later, although Latin was still the language spoken by public officers and the social elite, the everyday language on the streets was predominantly Greek. Although the congregations may have had a couple of visiting foreigners wandering in from the nearby port towns of Lechaion and Cenchrea the majority of the congregations would have been Greek/Latin speaking locals.
So you are trying to that there was only a single Greek congregation that existed within the four cities/towns of the capital of Greece (being Corinth) along with the three major port centres of Lechaion, Isthmia and Cenchrea along with the various villages that surround these four centres. It is more than obvious that you need to spend a bit more time (actually quite a lot of time) with my various posts that address the life of the cities, towns and villages within the Corinthian Isthmus.

If you had carefully read the sources that I have referred to in my posts that have addressed the makeup of the city of Corinth, you would have discovered that this very Latin city, which has been referred to by others as being 'more Rome than Rome' was proud of its Latin connections and for the intelligentsia and the leaders of the city then Latin would be their lingua franca. As for the use of Greek within Corinth, this did not appear to be a major influence until about 100 years after Paul's time; so Corinth was an intensely Latin city and the more recent arrivals from the Western portion of the Empire would in most part probably spoke in Latin as Greek was more commonly found in the Eastern portion of the Empire. As the various crews that visited Corinth and its suburban seaport towns would naturally gravitate to any cultural group within the Isthmus who may have spoken their language, then we would expect to see a plethora of Christians from many differing language groups arriving in the who knows how many ethnic Christian congregations, just as we see today throughout the worldwide church.

Then you are obviously unfamiliar with verses such as Rom 16:5, Rom 16:23, 1 Cor 16:19, Col 4:15, Phlm 2, that clearly show that the early Christians met in people's homes. Nowhere does it suggest they met in other places such as halls or even amphitheaters as you once laughingly suggested. As to your idea they met in fields you seem to be unaware that the climate in Corinth is not exactly constant, with blisteringly hot sun in the summer and frequent heavy rain storms and a rather chilly average temperature of 10 degree Celcius in winter. And you may be surprised to know that they didn't have weather forecasts or telephones to make last minute arrangements or cancellations. So I'm afraid this idea of yours is rather laughable as well. As scripture says, and is commonly affirmed by bible historians, they met in people's homes.
Are you really serious or are you simply trying to throw in a spanner? Maybe you forgot that a larger traditional Roman home in particular will always be built around an open atrium so that the home can gain the benefits of the Mediterranean climate:

"The mild, brief, rainy Mediterranean winters and long, hot, dry summers create an environment in which, for seven to eight months of the year, the most pleasant place to be is outside, in the shade of the day and under the starts by night. Thus the basic design of the Greco-Roman house of the early imperial period features some kind of central court around which rooms are arranged and to which they give access. . . . . . ."
Families in the New Testament World: Households and House Churches, Osiek & Baich (1997) p.6

Even supposing they did meet in large groups, to rule out tongues being a foreign language there would have to be a representative from every nation of the world within earshot of the tongues speaker to confirm the language wasn't theirs. Rather unlikely don't you think?
As no man is ever able to understand what the Holy Spirit says to the Father when he prays through us then there is nothing to respond to. Remember, the cessationist idea that tongues is supposed to be in known human languages if a fantasy that comes from a worldview that struggles with the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Show us where in those 32 verses it gives us a redefinition of what the gift actually is.
You mean to say that after who knows how many hundreds of posts within numerous threads on tongues that have detailed the content of 1Cor 12, 13 & 14 that you have not been able to figure out what millions of others have been able to understand - unbelievable! Is this an example of 'ostrich theology' where if you feel that you hide your head in the sand that the Scriptures will somehow not have any effect on you?

An exegesis doesn't have to come from a peer-reviewed academic paper in order to be considered valid. We are contributing to a forum not writing seminary dissertations. Your explanation of 1 Cor 13:1-3 in post #69 was not peer reviewed, but I don't reject it for that reason. I reject it because your reasoning is flawed and there is a far more logical explanation which I posted in reply.

In any case, the commentaries I cited are published books or academic journals by seminary professors or respected authors. Those books would have gone through a rigorous editorial review process before publication. Publishers are not going to waste thousands of dollars typesetting and printings thousands of copies if what they print is rubbish and harms their reputation as a publisher.
Yep, that's why five (from memory) of the sources that you quoted agreed with me. In my list of 32 scholars and 39 commentaries I included five dedicated cessationists, if for nothing else it will allow me to point out their flaws, where they are often making guesses.

Even though there are many commentators who clearly disagree with your interpretation and agree me, that is not what determines whether it is true or false. Whether a particular interpretation is true doesn't depend on whether a 'scholar' affirms it or not (that is the appeal to authority fallacy), but rather whether the interpretation is in fact the correct one. We can only determine that by carefully examining their respective exegeses (or anyone else's) and judging for ourselves whether it makes good sense, putting aside any preconceived ideas we may have.
One of the joys of being a Continuist is that the vast majority of peer-reviewed scholars present a Continuist outlook, even if they are not experientially Continuist. In the list I provided, quite a few are neither Pentecostal or charismatic in practice, but as they desire to be honest with their treatment of the Scriptures they will often sound as if they are Continuist, but due to various factors at play they may still reside in essentially dry and dusty cessationist circles, but at least they understand the Truth of the Scriptures even though they are often under pressure to maintain the status-quo that they are in.

At the end of day people can read your argument for tongues being the language of angels and compare it to my counter argument, together with the supporting commentaries if they wish, and then decide for themselves which makes the most sense.
Exactly!!!! This why many quasi-cessationists over the past 30 or more years have chosen to remain quiet on these issues as they know that it is impossible to support the cessationist worldview from within the Word of God. As I have said to you on numerous occasions, the best defence for the cessationist worldview is silence as the Scriptures only tend to confuse on convict the avid cessationist; As the old song goes "Silence can be Golden - Golden"

Your kidding right? None of those 5 commentaries agree with your assertion that tongues is the language of angels.

Ciampa & Rosner makes it absolutely clear they regard the normative version of tongues here to be human languages, with angelic languages being an unusual 'wonderful version'.

Horsley agrees with me entirely that Paul is "presenting himself as a hypothetical example, Paul first mockingly exaggerates....we may sense the exaggeration and excess..... a grotesque metaphor......Paul's own tongue is squarely in his cheek"

Phillips: "The case is only supposed....The languages are known languages (Acts 2:7-8), human languages....We have no way of knowing whether or not angels speak a heavenly language"

Forbes: "It would seem to me that the widely held view that Paul must primarily mean heavenly languages is implausible being as it is based heavily on the phrase "and angels" in 1 Corinthians 13.1, which does look like a rhetorical flourish.....clearly his is not really claiming "all mysteries and all knowledge or to have sold all that he has....But the reference to "tongues of men" in 1 Corinthians 13.1 can hardly be so explained, and if it is allowed to remain, the presumption must be strong that Paul's reference to speakers of mutually foreign languages implies that foreign languages were what he thought glossolalists spoke. "

Kistemaker: "He appears to be saying, “Suppose that I as the Lord’s apostle have the highest possible gift of tongues, those that men use, and those even that angels use—how you Corinthians would admire, even envy me and desire to have an equal gift!”
As you still have your hangups with even the simplest of terms, being with that of hypothetical and hyperbolic speech, then you will never be able to understand what these commentators are saying as you are trying to force them to say what you want them to say. I can only presume that you are afraid to acknowledge the different meaning between the terms hypothetical and hyperbole and until you are able to come to grips with what they mean then you will always be chasing around with ideas that these commentators are not speaking of.

The fact there are so many commentaries found on Google Books which reject the idea of tongues being the language of angels shows how unpopular this view is, even among continuationists. I would expect unbridled access to all published books would easily reveal far more agreeing with me, rather than having to spend weeks hunting down obscure books in libraries in the hope of propping up my theory.
Google Books can be a useful resource at times but as even I struggle at times to understand what various commentators are trying to either speak on or even guess about, this is why I am spending some time at the library of a Christian library so that I can gain a proper understanding of what they mean (or at times what they think they believe) from the entirety of 1Cor 12, 13 & 14. If you rely on Google Books alone you will only end up inserting your own views onto theirs.

You seem to be missing Wallace's point. He is pointing out the obvious pattern in Paul's construction of these 5 statements. Each one begins with the normal operation of the gift "If I speak with the tongues of men","If I have the gift of prophecy","if I have all faith","if I give", and then extends them to an exaggerated hypothetical versions of them "and of angels", "and know all mysteries and all knowledge", "so as to remove mountains", "give all my possessions to feed the poor", "surrender my body to be burned" . The irony being that this passage actually supports the complete opposite of what you think it does - the normal operation of tongues is the "tongues of men" not the "tongues of angels".
Okay, now this is getting really frustrating. Again, your failure to understand how to use the terms hypothetical and hyperbole is getting a bit beyond a joke as you may as well be talking about the fish in China when others are talking about new forms to technology.
 
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speaking in tongues is acts 2- monergistic to the one speaking it, and intelligible (language of another race).
what you have today is paganism, non-sensical words which has become a performance.
 
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The 'cultural and historical' aspects of Corinth are certainly important but as you have undoubtedly gained most of your information from me then you will probably have to spend a bit more time with my material before you say too much.

A rather arrogant remark seeing as such material on Corinth is freely available for all to look up (which I have done), rather than having to depend on you for it.

If you had read my post properly you would have seen that my comment was not about Corinth, but the importance of cultural and historical context as a hermeneutical principle in general (something which you were obviously completely unaware of).


As much as I hope that I do not fall for the fallacy of 'picking and choosing what I want to believe', when it comes to the material within First Corinthians in particular, I know that I have a particular attraction to the various Corinthian congregations as they seem to be more contemporary at times than we are. When we read First Corinthians it is as if we are viewing the Western Church through the mirror of Corinth where their behaviour seems so similar to ours. I would imagine that if many of us were translated back to Corinth of the first century that we would probably feel quite at home, where they of course have the benefit of not being annoyed by mobile phones but the lack of colour TV could be an issue.

Really? You have an attraction to the Corinthian church? The elitist, vain, factional, divisive, immoral Corinthians? The church that Paul had to sternly rebuke on multiple issues, including the misuse of spiritual gifts? The church who thought themselves as super-spiritual, but who Paul regarded as unspiritual and carnal (1 Cor 3:1)? If Paul could see what was happening in Pentecostal and charismatic circles today I expect he would shake his head in despair and say "Oh no. Not again!".

So you are trying to that there was only a single Greek congregation that existed within the four cities/towns of the capital of Greece (being Corinth) along with the three major port centres of Lechaion, Isthmia and Cenchrea along with the various villages that surround these four centres. It is more than obvious that you need to spend a bit more time (actually quite a lot of time) with my various posts that address the life of the cities, towns and villages within the Corinthian Isthmus.

If you had read my post properly (and those before it) you would realise that the singular congregation I was referring was the example congregation in which the tongues were spoken. If you look back through my posts you would notice that I have always maintained there were multiple congregations in Corinth. What you perceived to be a mistake on my part, in fact wasn't. Yet I see you took that as an opportunity to thrown in an ad hominum derogatory remark.

If you had carefully read the sources that I have referred to in my posts that have addressed the makeup of the city of Corinth, you would have discovered that this very Latin city, which has been referred to by others as being 'more Rome than Rome' was proud of its Latin connections and for the intelligentsia and the leaders of the city then Latin would be their lingua franca. As for the use of Greek within Corinth, this did not appear to be a major influence until about 100 years after Paul's time; so Corinth was an intensely Latin city and the more recent arrivals from the Western portion of the Empire would in most part probably spoke in Latin as Greek was more commonly found in the Eastern portion of the Empire.

You have clearly done insufficient research into the demographics of ancient Corinth. Although the Latin inscriptions on the monuments have led many to believe Corinth was a very Roman city, research has shown this to be a false assumption, and that the city's inhabitants were in fact predominantly Greek speaking:

All Things to All Cultures: Paul Among Jews, Greeks, and Romans
edited by Mark Harding, Alanna Nobbs

The city's demographic makeup is connected to its role in facilitating trade between Italy and the Greek East. In the archaeological record from Corinth, there is strong evidence for bilingualism within the city, with Greek as the language of the street and Latin as the language of the monumentality, set out for public display on prominent buildings and inscriptions. Greek was the common tongue of most inhabitants; Latin was generally the language used to mark elites and local benefactors as Roman.
...
It has long been noted that the bulk of the inscriptions from Corinth in the first two centuries after its colonization are in Latin. See John H. Kent, Corinth VIII.3. The Inscriptions, 1926-1950 (Princeton: American School of Classical Studies at Athens, 1966), 18-19. This has been used to suggest that Corinth was a "Roman" city that only later was diluted by the arrival of Greek immigrants and by the Philhellenism of Hadrian's reign. Millis examined evidence from graffiti, dipinti, curse tablets, mason's marks, and funerary inscriptions that suggested Greek was the language of daily use in Corinth. Based on Millis work, we can then see the prominence of Latin on Corinth's monumental architecture as part of the elite's attempt to display a connection to Roman culture and power. As Greg Woolf, “Monumental Writing and the Expansion of Roman Society in the Early Empire,” JRS 86 (1996): 32 has argued, epigraphy is often used to address anxieties around identity, an anxiety that was no doubt felt by a colonial elite made up of mainly Greek freedmen and Italian traders. Monumental writing in Latin in the city center was a strategic mode for the city and its elite to present themselves as bearing a unified, Roman identity, despite the realities on the ground.


As the various crews that visited Corinth and its suburban seaport towns would naturally gravitate to any cultural group within the Isthmus who may have spoken their language, then we would expect to see a plethora of Christians from many differing language groups arriving in the who knows how many ethnic Christian congregations, just as we see today throughout the worldwide church.

It seems you are making the most basic of schoolboy errors in assuming the proportion of Christians in the world in 54ad is the same as it is today. Although Christianity accounts for 32% of the world's population today, in Paul's time it would have been minuscule with it being a newly founded religion. So the proportion of Christians among the foreign sailors and passengers passing between the port towns near Corinth would have been negligible.

Are you really serious or are you simply trying to throw in a spanner? Maybe you forgot that a larger traditional Roman home in particular will always be built around an open atrium so that the home can gain the benefits of the Mediterranean climate:

"The mild, brief, rainy Mediterranean winters and long, hot, dry summers create an environment in which, for seven to eight months of the year, the most pleasant place to be is outside, in the shade of the day and under the starts by night. Thus the basic design of the Greco-Roman house of the early imperial period features some kind of central court around which rooms are arranged and to which they give access. . . . . . ."
Families in the New Testament World: Households and House Churches, Osiek & Baich (1997) p.6

If you had read your own material that you quoted you would notice that the author isn't referring to the climate of Corinth, but to the general climate of the Mediterranean as a whole. If you had checked the climate of Corinth itself you would have known the climate is quite extreme with hot dry summers and cold rainy winters - both being unsuitable for prolonged mass meetings in the open air without any shade or shelter available.

Climate Corinth: Temperature, Climate graph, Climate table for Corinth - Climate-Data.org

As we are told the regular meetings of the early church took place in people's homes, not in the open air there is little point speculating on this any further.


Remember, the cessationist idea that tongues is supposed to be in known human languages if a fantasy that comes from a worldview that struggles with the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Seeing as there is only one description of the gift of tongues in the whole of scripture which makes it quite plain that the gift was foreign human languages, then it would be you that is living in fantasyland, not me.

As to cessationists struggling with the Holy Spirit, I think you will find they are among most loving and respectful towards Him among Christians. Unlike others we don't dishonor Him by attributing to Him things which are clearly not of him, or treat Him as some kind of genie, there to perform magic tricks upon request.


You mean to say that after who knows how many hundreds of posts within numerous threads on tongues that have detailed the content of 1Cor 12, 13 & 14 that you have not been able to figure out what millions of others have been able to understand - unbelievable! Is this an example of 'ostrich theology' where if you feel that you hide your head in the sand that the Scriptures will somehow not have any effect on you?

Three times now on this thread I have asked you where exactly in 1 Cor 12-14 is this redefinition of what tongues actually is, that you insist exists. Every time you sidestep from giving an answer. The reason is obvious - there isn't one. Instead all I get is a barrage of ad hominum insults.

As you still have your hangups with even the simplest of terms, being with that of hypothetical and hyperbolic speech, then you will never be able to understand what these commentators are saying as you are trying to force them to say what you want them to say. I can only presume that you are afraid to acknowledge the different meaning between the terms hypothetical and hyperbole and until you are able to come to grips with what they mean then you will always be chasing around with ideas that these commentators are not speaking of.

The only one who is having hangups over the definitions of the words hypothetical and hyperbole is you. You go on and on and on about it. I have already provided you with the dictionary definitions of both words. Those are the definitions I subscribe to. Both literary devices are clearly in evidence in 1 Cor 13:1-3, as the commentaries I quoted affirm. But still you refuse to accept it. What was it you said about ostriches and sand?
 
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If you had read your own material that you quoted you would notice that the author isn't referring to the climate of Corinth, but to the general climate of the Mediterranean as a whole. If you had checked the climate of Corinth itself you would have known the climate is quite extreme with hot dry summers and cold rainy winters - both being unsuitable for prolonged mass meetings in the open air without any shade or shelter available.

Climate Corinth: Temperature, Climate graph, Climate table for Corinth - Climate-Data.org
I hope that you realise that we are talking about Corinth, which is located in the heart of the Mediterranean and not Corinth Mississippi?
 
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