(Moved) speaking in tongues

[sahjimira]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think

 

[Open Heart]

I think it's a psychological phenomenon, completely natural and harmless -- it helps people express the inexpressable and can be a great help in prayer.

You might want to have the mods move this to general theology.

 

[sahjimira]

OK thanks. U don't think then it's the Holy Spirit? Do I just text support to transfer to GT?

 

[talitha]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think....... OK thanks. U don't think then it's the Holy Spirit? Do I just text support to transfer to GT?

You're going to get wildly different answers here from different kinds of people... I am charismatic, so I say it's real. It's definitely supported scripturally. You belong to the Pentecostal faith, your profile says. What is making you question something that is such a given among Pentecostals?

 

[sahjimira]

Well I have read a lot of fors and against. One guy even said he heard a lady speaking in tongues which happened to be his native language. He said she was using profane words and cursing. That of course could b a lie. I do speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives utterance. I was just wondering

 

[Open Heart]

OK thanks. U don't think then it's the Holy Spirit? Do I just text support to transfer to GT?

Correct and Correct. Though I don't know how you do it yourself, I think you have to ask a mod to help you with it. If you go to the initial page for the forum, next to the page numbers, you will find a link for moderators. Click on that and it will show you the names and links to all of the mods. Have at it.

 

[sahjimira]

Correct and Correct. Though I don't know how you do it yourself, I think you have to ask a mod to help you with it. If you go to the initial page for the forum, next to the page numbers, you will find a link for moderators. Click on that and it will show you the names and links to all of the mods. Have at it.

Ya the mod told me. I can't find the ding dong thing now..maybe they moved it..but if I see it I'll move it

 

[Open Heart]

Ya the mod told me. I can't find the ding dong thing now..maybe they moved it..but if I see it I'll move it

Are you using the alert system to follow the thread? It looks like it hasn't been moved yet.

 

[High Fidelity]

Mod

Moved per OP's request to General Theology.

Please note that non-Christian posts have been removed as it's now in a Christian-only area.

Mod​

 

[sahjimira]

ThanksOTE="Patrick Bateman, post: 68755788, member: 346907"]

Mod

Moved per OP's request to General Theology.

Please note that non-Christian posts have been removed as it's now in a Christian-only area.

Mod​

[/QUOTE]
Thanks. But in general Theo there's a bunch of sub forums.. which one is it in?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think

Ok so here is my two cents. How some evangelicals understand tongues today is not what the bible is talking about. There is no evidence to support than when once speaks in tongues, they do not know what they are saying. You have to check the very first instance where the gift on tongues is manifested.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The gift on tongues was manifested in order to overcome the language barrier that existed. A tongue is a language. Now Paul said that if anyone speaks in tongues in a public setting he must have an interpreter and if he does not he must keep silent in the church. I will share a few verses from 1 Cor 14 but the whole thing is important to read.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Now people twist this to mean that when you speak or pray in tongues it is a special prayer language that God alone understand. This is not what this verse is saying. The verse is saying that nobody else understands him, and he is only speaking to God.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

This point is crucial. The belief is that the secret language that only God understand cannot be interpreted, but Paul is saying that somebody should interpret this person is speaking in a church or public setting so that everyone understands what is said and can be edified.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So what is Paul saying here. If somebody happens to be speaking in an unknown tongue, he should pray so that he can interpret or else they won't understand what they are talking about and if that's the case then what's the point. You should pray with BOTH the spirit and the understanding. And Paul says that he prefers to speak 5 words with his understanding so that others can understand and be edified than 10,000 words of an unknown tongue that nobody understand and can learn anything from.

Christians who love to quote Paul have services in church where multiple people are speaking in 'tongues' at the same time, nobody understands anything and this goes against what Paul is saying.

1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

 

[bbbbbbb]

Most assuredly I believe in speaking in tongues. I do it daily. My primary tongue is English and I speak some German and a smattering of Chinese. When I was in China this past April and met with the Christians there I practiced scriptural tongues. I spoke in English and my interpreter translated into Chinese so that my audience could understand what I said.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

There is also an important distinction that needs to be made as well. There is the gift of tongues vs speaking in tongues. Someone who has learned different languages can speak in tongues obviously. The gift of tongues is when the Holy Spirit give you the ability to speak in whatever language in necessary, and you previously had no ability to speak such language. So when Paul says that he can speak in tongues more than anything, its not a reference to the gift of tongues because with the gift of tongues, the holy spirit decides what you are able to speak based on the situation. Paul, because of his multiculturalism and education was able to speak in many different languages.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is also an important distinction that needs to be made as well. There is the gift of tongues vs speaking in tongues. Someone who has learned different languages can speak in tongues obviously. The gift of tongues is when the Holy Spirit give you the ability to speak in whatever language in necessary, and you previously had no ability to speak such language. So when Paul says that he can speak in tongues more than anything, its not a reference to the gift of tongues because with the gift of tongues, the holy spirit decides what you are able to speak based on the situation. Paul, because of his multiculturalism and education was able to speak in many different languages.

This is an interesting distinction which, unfortunately, cannot be supported by the scriptural text. For example, in I Corinthians 12 and 14 where Paul goes to great length in explaining spiritual gifts he states there that he speaks in tongues more than all of them. The context is exercisig the gift of tongues, not merely speaking in another language which one has spent effort to learn.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think

Glossolalia (or speaking in tongues) as described in the Bible was certainly real.

I don't think what is often categorized today as speaking in tongues is much more than incoherent babbling, and has more in common with numerous animist and shamanist practices than it does ancient Christian charismata.

Now, I say it has commonality with animistic and shamanistic practices, that doesn't mean I believe it is demonic. I don't presume a spiritual origin for what more probably has a completely mundane, human origin. It's neither holy nor demonic, it's just humans behaving strangely.

It is important to remember that, in Scripture, glossolalia is something that A) is an actual human language, something that is actually spoken and contains real syntax and linguistic structure (something which modern glossolalia typically lacks) and B) is something that could be understood either by a native speaker or through the gift of interpretation.

What glossolalia is never described as in Scripture is that of a "prayer language" or "heavenly language", it is consistently human language.

If someone, with no knowledge of French, spoke fluent French that could be an example of authentic glossolalia; but an individual uttering repetitive sounds and babble that is of no relation to real world languages is not an example of authentic [biblical] glossolalia.

For the record, I'm not a cessationist, that is, I don't necessarily believe certain gifts just stopped or ceased; but I do think we need to have a careful and critical analysis of Scripture to ensure we have the right understanding of what such gifts actually are. To that end I regard the majority of modern day tongues-speech to have no connection with what is described in Holy Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[PROPHECYKID]

This is an interesting distinction which, unfortunately, cannot be supported by the scriptural text. For example, in I Corinthians 12 and 14 where Paul goes to great length in explaining spiritual gifts he states there that he speaks in tongues more than all of them. The context is exercisig the gift of tongues, not merely speaking in another language which one has spent effort to learn.

Think about it for a second. If I can speak 5 languages, can I not speak it tongues? Literally? That's different to speaking on tongues due to the gift of the holy spirit. Can we agree on that.

Its also a fact that Paul had a multicultural background and was very educated. Nobody who received the gifts of tongues can claim that they can speak in tongues more than anyone else, because this is a gift the holy spirit gives based on necessity and not on demand. Paul cannot demand from the spirit to be able to speak 40 different languages just to prove something. The holy spirit gives this gift according to how he deems necessary and no man can say that they can speak in tongues more than anyone else unless they know how many specific languages they can speak, then they can make that statement.

But that's a smaller disagreement to the overall point. I think we can both agree that what is going on in many of these churches is going against the counsel and the instructions given by Paul.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Do u think speaking in tongues isfor real? I know some people just seem to babble..but what do u think

I would encourage all who speak in tongues to apply the following biblical passage and see what happens.

For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. (1 Corinthians 14:13)

 

[talitha]

I would encourage all who speak in tongues to apply the following biblical passage and see what happens.

For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. (1 Corinthians 14:13)

If you look at the context, it's about corporate worship..... just sayin'.....

 

[bbbbbbb]

Glossolalia (or speaking in tongues) as described in the Bible was certainly real.

I don't think what is often categorized today as speaking in tongues is much more than incoherent babbling, and has more in common with numerous animist and shamanist practices than it does ancient Christian charismata.

Now, I say it has commonality with animistic and shamanistic practices, that doesn't mean I believe it is demonic. I don't presume a spiritual origin for what more probably has a completely mundane, human origin. It's neither holy nor demonic, it's just humans behaving strangely.

It is important to remember that, in Scripture, glossolalia is something that A) is an actual human language, something that is actually spoken and contains real syntax and linguistic structure (something which modern glossolalia typically lacks) and B) is something that could be understood either by a native speaker or through the gift of interpretation.

What glossolalia is never described as in Scripture is that of a "prayer language" or "heavenly language", it is consistently human language.

If someone, with no knowledge of French, spoke fluent French that could be an example of authentic glossolalia; but an individual uttering repetitive sounds and babble that is of no relation to real world languages is not an example of authentic [biblical] glossolalia.

For the record, I'm not a cessationist, that is, I don't necessarily believe certain gifts just stopped or ceased; but I do think we need to have a careful and critical analysis of Scripture to ensure we have the right understanding of what such gifts actually are. To that end I regard the majority of modern day tongues-speech to have no connection with what is described in Holy Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

Great post!

 

[tturt]

sahjimira, you posted "I do speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives utterance." Please don't worry or be concerned about every believer agreeing on any topic. Because you will find that there's very few topics we all agree on. We can rest on Scriptures such as "Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?" Matt 7:9

According to Scripture, there's diversities of tongues (I Cor 12:10, 28) that includes tongues for believer edification (usually referred to as prayer language) (I Cor 14:4) and (2) church edification (I Cor 14:5) usually this is a message in tongues with interpretation (I Cor 12:10).

Tongues are to glorify G_d (John 15:26), help pray in the spirit to Him (I cor 14), magnifies Him (Acts 10:47), etc. If interested, Dr. Hamon's book has 70 reasons (amazon).