[Moved From General Apologetics] Is Islam A Re-Worked Pagan Religion?

[ProAmerican]

1.) Now before you type concerning this, realize that Muslims will often use the argument that Al-Lah is the God of the Old Testament. Based upon this, if Al-Lah was of pagan origin, then he couldn't be the God of the Old Testament. Therefore dealing with the parallels between Islam and paganism is as necessary (and warranted) as the thread that I posted concerning Jesus, Horus and Dionysus parallels.

When looking at the available historical and archaeological evidence which has come to light in the past century, it is evident that a strong argument can be made that Al-Lah is indeed a pagan moon god.

Mohammed took the celestial moon god Allah and elevated him to the level of supreme diety. Of the 360 idols within the Ka'ba, Al-lah was but one. Allah had three daughters (goddesses), Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, who were made intecessors by Mohammed and placed within the Quaranic scriptures. This is what is commonly referred to as the Satanic Verses. Mohammed later said that it was Satan who deceived him into writing Al-Lah's three daughters within the Quranic scriptures.

Yes, it seems that there were initially many idols within the black stone known as the Ka'ba and which were associated and worshipped in connection with it. In the end it seems that Islam's roots are essentially Pagan and Henotheistic.

What symbol is on the top of mosques worldwide? The cresent moon.

Thousands of inscriptions from rocks in Northern Arabia have been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, Al-Lat, Al-uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Al-lah the moon god represented by a cresent moon above them.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm


2.) A good link to read concerning the Satanic Verses:

http://muhammadanism.org/Quran/SatanicVerses.htm


3.) Another link that gives numerous quotes by scholars concerning Al-Lah's three daughters:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm



Question: If Al-lah is a pre-Islamic pagan deity, are Islam's claims refuted?


This thread is essentially just a primer and to spur one to due further and more in-depth research concerning the origins of the Islamic faith and its apparent connections with paganism.

 

[CSmrw]

What a spiffy apologetic argument. You all look pagan to me.

 

[ProAmerican]

What a spiffy apologetic argument. You all look pagan to me.

Simplistic and undeveloped response on this thread? Methinks so.

Well, anyway, carry on.

Have a good one.

Ta-ta for me for today.

 

[Bork]

This is interesting, but what stops them from stating the same about Jesus?
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

There are tons of parallels between Christianity and Mithraism. Honestly, I don't see the difference between calling Islam pagan and Christianity pagan.

If you can clarify this I'd greatly appreciate it, because right now I feel as if it is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[CSmrw]

Simplistic and undeveloped response on this thread? Methinks so.

Well, anyway, carry on.

Have a good one.

Ta-ta for me for today.

It's just that, you know, it's not an apologetic for Christianity to tear down another religion, I don't think. If you do I sure would like to see the math.

 

[Goatboy]

What is Pagan?

Since it was Christians who first used the term as a designation for non Christians then every other religion is technically pagan.

Even the people who worship the same God are pagani (“bumpkins” would be a bowdlerised translation) if they’re not good Christian soldiers.

It’s just semantics (and pretty worthless ones at that).

Allah is the same god the Hebrews worshipped, “The God of Abraham”, if Christianity worships that god (and that’s a pretty sticky question, but anyway) then you’re all one big happy family of violently disagreeing sects as far as I’m concerned.

What’s funny is the Pagan’s of Mecca had no qualms with the worshipping of Allah and even monotheism was quite common.

What riled them when the prophet turned up was his preaching of life after death.

 

[Im_A]

1.) Now before you type concerning this, realize that Muslims will often use the argument that Al-Lah is the God of the Old Testament. Based upon this, if Al-Lah was of pagan origin, then he couldn't be the God of the Old Testament. Therefore dealing with the parallels between Islam and paganism is as necessary (and warranted) as the thread that I posted concerning Jesus, Horus and Dionysus parallels.

When looking at the available historical and archaeological evidence which has come to light in the past century, it is evident that a strong argument can be made that Al-Lah is indeed a pagan moon god.

Mohammed took the celestial moon god Allah and elevated him to the level of supreme diety. Of the 360 idols within the Ka'ba, Al-lah was but one. Allah had three daughters (goddesses), Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, who were made intecessors by Mohammed and placed within the Quaranic scriptures. This is what is commonly referred to as the Satanic Verses. Mohammed later said that it was Satan who deceived him into writing Al-Lah's three daughters within the Quranic scriptures.

Yes, it seems that there were initially many idols within the black stone known as the Ka'ba and which were associated and worshipped in connection with it. In the end it seems that Islam's roots are essentially Pagan and Henotheistic.

What symbol is on the top of mosques worldwide? The cresent moon.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm


2.) A good link to read concerning the Satanic Verses:

http://muhammadanism.org/Quran/SatanicVerses.htm


3.) Another link that gives numerous quotes by scholars concerning Al-Lah's three daughters:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm



Question: If Al-lah is a pre-Islamic pagan deity, are Islam's claims refuted?


This thread is essentially just a primer and to spur one to due further and more in-depth research concerning the origins of the Islamic faith and its apparent connections with paganism.

then i think you need to take this discussion over to Non-Christian Religion forum if you want discussion with this on CF. this is General Apologetic Forums, a forum for the Christian Apologetic not the Islamic Apologetic Forum.

btw, if i may give advice tho, it may be more fruitful to use non-biased sites, meaning secular sites that may deal with this, then using biased Christian sites. if your looking for commonairities between paganism and Islam, it's unfair to go at it by using the judgement of the conclusion based on biased Christian websites.

 

[Thinker]

The biblical God is of Pagan origins. Originally, the biblical God was the Canaanite `El', who came with two wives and an assortment of offspring.

 

[AlanGurvey]

Why the hell attack another religion as pagan in the G.A. forum?

 

[AlanGurvey]

The biblical God is of Pagan origins. Originally, the biblical God was the Canaanite `El', who came with two wives and an assortment of offspring.

Debateable.

 

[MariaRegina]

Mohammed studied under the Nestorians (who believed in the New Testament but who didn't believe that Christ was God). Thus Mohammed respected both the Old and the New Testament and called the Christians and the Jews "the People of the Book".

From the Jews and the Christians, Mohammed learned to pray at set times during the day and to make prostrations. He also learned to appreciate set times of fasting and feasting. That is why there are a few similarities between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

The early Christians prayed seven times a day. The monks and nuns (monastics) still pray seven times per day, however, throughout the day and even in their sleep, they pray the Jesus Prayer. Yes, people can pray during their sleep.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is interesting, but what stops them from stating the same about Jesus?
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

There are tons of parallels between Christianity and Mithraism. Honestly, I don't see the difference between calling Islam pagan and Christianity pagan.

If you can clarify this I'd greatly appreciate it, because right now I feel as if it is the pot calling the kettle black.

then i think you need to take this discussion over to Non-Christian Religion forum if you want discussion with this on CF. this is General Apologetic Forums, a forum for the Christian Apologetic not the Islamic Apologetic Forum.

btw, if i may give advice tho, it may be more fruitful to use non-biased sites, meaning secular sites that may deal with this, then using biased Christian sites. if your looking for commonairities between paganism and Islam, it's unfair to go at it by using the judgement of the conclusion based on biased Christian websites.

This thread does belong in the non-christian forums, even though Judaism, Islam and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions.
I do agree with Islam on the existence of Jesus and being born of a "virgin/young woman" though..

Exodus 3:15 And 'elohiym saith again unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Y@hovah, 'elohiym ofyour fathers, 'elohiym of Abraham, 'elohiym of Isaac, and 'elohiym of Jacob/[Israel], hath sent me unto you; this [is] My name--to the age, and this My memorial, to generation--generation

 

[ProAmerican]

This is interesting, but what stops them from stating the same about Jesus?
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

There are tons of parallels between Christianity and Mithraism. Honestly, I don't see the difference between calling Islam pagan and Christianity pagan.

If you can clarify this I'd greatly appreciate it, because right now I feel as if it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Two arguments that were used by Justin Martyr and Tertullian to counter Celsus's (and others) arguments that Christianity wasn't much different that the Mystery Religions was that Satan engaged in plagiarism by anticipation,and engaged in "diabolical mimicry."

While some have set out to show that Christianity contained the essential elements of Pagan Mystery beliefs - A God-man born of a virgin, miracles, raising the dead, crucified and rose from the dead, establishing Mystery rites such as the Eucharist and Baptism - and then later invented myths to surround his life and ministry, the charges of the Devil engaging in plagiarism by anticipation and diabloical mimicry haven't been sufficiently refuted either.

The main difference that seperates Islam and Christianity as to Pagan origins, is that one would be hard pressed to find an idol that represents Jesus Christ, or was worshipped as Jesus Christ, that predates Him by even 100-200 years. This easily occurs with the moon god Allah.

 

[ProAmerican]

It's just that, you know, it's not an apologetic for Christianity to tear down another religion, I don't think. If you do I sure would like to see the math.

If the charge of Christianity having pagan roots is applied to Christianity, then one can see that this charge must also apply to Islam.

Funny thing is, is that there is ample archaeological and historical evidence for Allah being worshipped as a pagan idol, yet there are far more books written concerning Christianity and its so-called pagan origins.

 

[ProAmerican]

What is Pagan?

Since it was Christians who first used the term as a designation for non Christians then every other religion is technically pagan.

Even the people who worship the same God are pagani (“bumpkins” would be a bowdlerised translation) if they’re not good Christian soldiers.

It’s just semantics (and pretty worthless ones at that).

Oh I agree with you. The term pagan - bumpkin- and country at that, was a disparaging term if ever there was one. Pagan philosophers, scholars and intellectuals gave mankind the Pyramids, the Greek philosophical schools, etc. Look at what happened when St. Augustine suggested that the earth was indeed flat. This would have been a ridiculous idea in the eyes of the Greek pagan philosophers. Look how far man fell technologically when during the fourth to fifth century A.D., in many regions of Europe, the technology to build even a brick home had been lost. The Pagans were far from being idiots.

Allah is the same god the Hebrews worshipped, “The God of Abraham”, if Christianity worships that god (and that’s a pretty sticky question, but anyway) then you’re all one big happy family of violently disagreeing sects as far as I’m concerned.

What’s funny is the Pagan’s of

Mecca had no qualms with the worshipping of Allah and even monotheism was quite common.

What riled them when the prophet turned up was his preaching of life after death.

Muslims may try to teach that Allah is the same God that the Hebrews worshipped, but archaeological and historical, as well as Old Testament scriptures, show that the Hebrews/Israel did not worship the moon god as being Yahweh.

 

[ProAmerican]

then i think you need to take this discussion over to Non-Christian Religion forum if you want discussion with this on CF. this is General Apologetic Forums, a forum for the Christian Apologetic not the Islamic Apologetic Forum.

btw, if i may give advice tho, it may be more fruitful to use non-biased sites, meaning secular sites that may deal with this, then using biased Christian sites. if your looking for commonairities between paganism and Islam, it's unfair to go at it by using the judgement of the conclusion based on biased Christian websites.

Whatever. The thread has been moved, and that is fine with me...

Certainly one may go to http://www.religioustolerance.org to find "non-biased" information concerning Islam, if that is the type of website you are suggesting. I used this site on the thread dealing with Dionysus/Jesus.

BTW, you may want to remember that useful bit of advice when Atheists and Agnostics bring up a "biased" anti-Christian website.

What is one mans bias is another mans truth. That is why I stay away from labels like that word. The truth is the truth regardless of where it comes from. Any website can say 1+1=2. Correct information is correct information regardless of where it comes from.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Firstly, Muhammad(pbuh) didn't 'study' under anyone as he couldn't read or write.

Secondly, the moon symbol on top of mosques are symbolic for the start of the months in the islamic calendar. our months start at the sighting of the new crescent.

Thirdly, it would behoove you to select your sources of information on a subject intelligently if you really seek to find the truth of the matter. Why rely on sources that have no authority on a particular subject? What you have essentially done is you have gone to the KuKluxKlan to learn about african americans.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

CHRISTIAN ARABS call god ALLAH.

its in their arabic bibles.

do they also worship a moon god?

 

[seed757]

What you have essentially done is you have gone to the KuKluxKlan to learn about african americans.

LOL!

 

[Scolaí]

Two arguments that were used by Justin Martyr and Tertullian to counter Celsus's (and others) arguments that Christianity wasn't much different that the Mystery Religions was that Satan engaged in plagiarism by anticipation,and engaged in "diabolical mimicry."

While some have set out to show that Christianity contained the essential elements of Pagan Mystery beliefs - A God-man born of a virgin, miracles, raising the dead, crucified and rose from the dead, establishing Mystery rites such as the Eucharist and Baptism - and then later invented myths to surround his life and ministry, the charges of the Devil engaging in plagiarism by anticipation and diabloical mimicry haven't been sufficiently refuted either.

Oh wow. Now that's keen. I just thought it was plain ridiculous to believe that this entity called 'satan' pre-wrote the bible story so as to cast doubt on it. The fact that you say it hasn't been refuted is just plain laughable.

The main difference that seperates Islam and Christianity as to Pagan origins, is that one would be hard pressed to find an idol that represents Jesus Christ, or was worshipped as Jesus Christ, that predates Him by even 100-200 years. This easily occurs with the moon god Allah.

Not true. There are xtian prototypes that predate the allegeded life of Jesus by many centuries. Quetzalcoatl of Mexico predates Jesus by a good 600 years. Mithra predates him by a millenium and shares most of the same life details as Jesus. Krishna of India, one of the most comparitively similar myths to xtianity predates Jesus by over 800 years. Horus of Egypt is found on the walls of the Temple of Luxor, which dates back 15 centuries before Jesus.

Most, if not all religions can be likely traced back to some ancient form of solar worship in western Europe. I'm stepping into researching this idea, so I can't definitively speak to that yet.