LDS Mormon teaching on the New Covenant of scripture - is there one??

[BobRyan]

Jer 31:31-34 states the New Covenant as follows -
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

IF you are a Mormon --
then

1. What is the Mormon teaching on that New Covenant?

2. Are you willing to have the discussion based on "sola scriptura" testing of the teaching?

 

[BobRyan]

Is Christ the High Priest of the New Covenant - in your POV?

Heb 8:1-6 says this is "the main point"

 

[He is the way]

Jer 31:31-34 states the New Covenant as follows -
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

IF you are a Mormon --
then

1. What is the Mormon teaching on that New Covenant?

2. Are you willing to have the discussion based on "sola scriptura" testing of the teaching?

We accept the New Covenant as stated in the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

We accept the New Covenant as stated in the Bible.

Can you provide a link/reference to a Mormon document that talks about Mormons being under the New Covenant? I would like that for reference. I actually do not know what they teach in this regard.

 

[He is the way]

Can you provide a link/reference to a Mormon document that talks about Mormons being under the New Covenant? I would like that for reference. I actually do not know what they teach in this regard.

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel. Here is an article:

Jeremiah 31

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:10)

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

 

[BobRyan]

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel. Here is an article:

Jeremiah 31

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:10)

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

i quoted the New Covenant - as it is stated in the Bible in Jeremiah 31 and asked if Mormons had any doctrine about it. Your response does not address anything in that Jeremiah 31 New Covenant statement, rather you talk about Ten Tribes, Zion, New Jerusalem and the book "Pearl of Great Price" instead of the actual topic we see in the Bible in Jeremiah 31 for the "New Covenant".

I agree that Mormons have a lot of other doctrines... ones that they get from books other than the Bible and BoM. My question for this thread is specifically about the Biblical doctrine of the New Covenant and whether Mormons teach it at all or have any statement about it at all.

So for example

We accept the New Covenant as stated in the Bible.

I would like to see something like that in a mormon document and have them explain what they believe it to be "as stated in the Bible"

 

[He is the way]

i quoted the New Covenant - as it is stated in the Bible in Jeremiah 31 and asked if Mormons had any doctrine about it. Your response does not address anything in that Jeremiah 31 New Covenant statement, rather you talk about Ten Tribes, Zion, New Jerusalem and the book "Pearl of Great Price" instead of the actual topic we see in the Bible in Jeremiah 31 for the "New Covenant".

I agree that Mormons have a lot of other doctrines... ones that they get from books other than the Bible and BoM. My question for this thread is specifically about the Biblical doctrine of the New Covenant and whether Mormons teach it at all or have any statement about it at all.

So for example



I would like to see something like that in a mormon document and have them explain what they believe it to be "as stated in the Bible"

Sorry that is all I have, do you have anything?

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry that is all I have, do you have anything?

Actually I don't have any documents at all that talk about what the LDS church teaches on the subject of the New Covenant.

I was wondering what they had.

In the Bible we find it in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and in Hebrews 8:6-12 -- actually Hebrews 8:1-12 for an even bigger view of it.

The New Covenant is the Gospel - that is apparent from the promises it provides.

And Gal 1:6-9 says there is only One Gospel - and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. so it is the same in both OT and NT.

The New Covenant according to Jeremiah 31 includes this
1. A new heart and mind - the Law of God written on heart and mind, the new birth.
2. Forgiveness of sins
3. Adoption into the family of God.
4. A 1-1 relationship with God directly where we have access to God.
5. it is only for "the house if Judah and the house of Israel" because as Romans 2 says --->

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[Rescued One]

LDS have many non-biblical covenants. And they think they live a higher law than non-Mormons.

 

[He is the way]

LDS have many non-biblical covenants. And they think they live a higher law than non-Mormons.

Jesus Christ gave us the higher law at the sermon on the mount.

 

[Peter1000]

Actually I don't have any documents at all that talk about what the LDS church teaches on the subject of the New Covenant.

I was wondering what they had.

In the Bible we find it in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and in Hebrews 8:6-12 -- actually Hebrews 8:1-12 for an even bigger view of it.

The New Covenant is the Gospel - that is apparent from the promises it provides.

And Gal 1:6-9 says there is only One Gospel - and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. so it is the same in both OT and NT.

The New Covenant according to Jeremiah 31 includes this
1. A new heart and mind - the Law of God written on heart and mind, the new birth.
2. Forgiveness of sins
3. Adoption into the family of God.
4. A 1-1 relationship with God directly where we have access to God.
5. it is only for "the house if Judah and the house of Israel" because as Romans 2 says --->

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is all in regarding the new covenant, or the new law (of Christ). It is obvious from our Sunday worship, and not following the law of Moses, the law of carnal commandments, that was given to be a school teacher to help Israel pull away from the Egyptian paganism and move Israel towards Christ.

This is an interesting scripture:
Hebrews 7:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

In verse 12, it says that there was a change in the priesthood. I know why, but I would like to see if you know why there was a change, and how did the priesthood change?

 

[Peter1000]

LDS have many non-biblical covenants. And they think they live a higher law than non-Mormons.

The Lord has given us the higher law (the meat of the gospel) that the Corinthians rejected in the first century (1 Corinthians 3:2), The same higher laws (meat) you are rejecting now.

 

[BobRyan]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is all in regarding the new covenant,

Is there any document that you can point to regarding the New Covenant.

or the new law (of Christ).

There is "no bible" text connecting the New Covenant with "New Law in Christ" -- And noting in the BoM does that either.

Are you short on documents for that statement?

 

[BobRyan]

This is an interesting scripture:
Hebrews 7:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

In verse 12, it says that there was a change in the priesthood. I know why, but I would like to see if you know why there was a change, and how did the priesthood change?

Heb 7 says there is a change because Christ was not from Levi and the system switched from earthly Levi-priests to Christ according to Hebrews 7 and as Hebrews 8:1-6 says "the main point" is that Christ is our High Priest at the right hand of God in the sanctuary in heaven. I was not sure you knew that -- did you?

Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things

And Hebrews 8 says that "if Christ were on earth He would not be a priest at all" -- did you know that?

Or have you setup a system of priests on earth - in competition with Him?

Heb 10 says that even after the cross there are still priests on Earth -- did you know that?

It says - the earthly priests still ministering on Earth after cross -- are useless
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus Christ gave us the higher law at the sermon on the mount.

Jesus condemned any and all tradition that sets aside the Word of God - in Mark 7 - did you know that?

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant , God's LAW (known to Jeremiah and his readers and written on stone in Ex 20) is "written on heart and mind" and is "unchanged" in Hebrews 8:6-12.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - Eph 6:1-2

Because even in the NEW testament "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Did you know that?

When Jesus is asked about the Commandments that are still valid in the NT -- that deal with the Lev 19:18 command "Love your neighbor as yourself" He says this ...

Matt 19
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ E 20
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not steal,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Ex 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Ex 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

 

[BobRyan]

The Lord has given us the higher law (the meat of the gospel) that the Corinthians rejected in the first century (1 Corinthians 3:2), The same higher laws (meat) you are rejecting now.

You are making that accusation without any support for it? seriously? Why do that?

You are supposed to be making the best case possible for Mormon doctrine... make friends -- avoid factless accusations.

 

[BobRyan]

We accept the New Covenant as stated in the Bible.

Can you provide a link/reference to a Mormon document that talks about Mormons being under the New Covenant? I would like that for reference. I actually do not know what they teach in this regard.

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel. Here is an article:

Jeremiah 31

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:10)

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

1. That is a PoGC quote verbatim (or paraphrase??) from Jer 31... and nothing else... WE already HAVE the actual Jeremiah chapter 31 in the actual Bible. What is the point? Why provide the SAME chapter from PoGC rather than the Bible -- and include book&chapter Jeremiah 31 - as the title - just as it is in the Bible... as if we did not have a bible but only had PoGC??? That is very very strange my friend.

2. You still have not presented a single Mormon document (and don't call a verbatim quote of Jer 31 a "Mormon document") that speaks about the New Covenant.

My guess is that - that is no accident.

 

[He is the way]

Jesus condemned any and all tradition that sets aside the Word of God - in Mark 7 - did you know that?

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant , God's LAW (known to Jeremiah and his readers and written on stone in Ex 20) is "written on heart and mind" and is "unchanged" in Hebrews 8:6-12.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - Eph 6:1-2

Because even in the NEW testament "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Did you know that?

When Jesus is asked about the Commandments that are still valid in the NT -- that deal with the Lev 19:18 command "Love your neighbor as yourself" He says this ...

Matt 19
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ E 20
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not steal,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Ex 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Ex 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

Yes I do know that, He also gave us the higher law during the sermon on the mount. See:
(New Testament | Matthew 5:Heading)

Jesus preaches the Sermon on the Mount—Its teachings replace and transcend some aspects of the Law of Moses—Men are commanded to be perfect like their Father in heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus Christ gave us the higher law at the sermon on the mount.

Jesus condemned any and all tradition that sets aside the Word of God - in Mark 7 - did you know that?

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

the Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant , God's LAW (known to Jeremiah and his readers and written on stone in Ex 20) is "written on heart and mind" and is "unchanged" in Hebrews 8:6-12.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - Eph 6:1-2

Because even in the NEW testament "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Did you know that?

When Jesus is asked about the Commandments that are still valid in the NT -- that deal with the Lev 19:18 command "Love your neighbor as yourself" He says this ...

Matt 19
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’ E 20
‘You shall not commit adultery,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not steal,’ Ex 20
‘You shall not bear false witness,’ Ex 20
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ Ex 20
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” Lev 19:18

Yes I do know that,

Well then we have at least that much as foundation for agreement.

He also gave us the higher law during the sermon on the mount. See:
(New Testament | Matthew 5:Heading)

He never calls his Word in Matthew 5 "the higher law". Rather he emphasized in Matthew 5 that nothing He said was intended as setting aside even one tiny bit of scripture.

This is irrefutable.

His Matthew 5 statements - magnify what was already there and already written on the heart under the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant.

He was very careful to correct the notion that His Words "replace" the Word of God as found in scripture.

Jesus preaches the Sermon on the Mount—Its teachings replace and transcend some aspects of the Law of Moses—Men are commanded to be perfect like their Father in heaven.

Moses and Elijah stand in glory - with Christ in Matthew 17 -

Mark 7 does not begin with "whatever you do -- be careful to ignore what Moses said"

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

=================

The Jews of Mark 7 made it their mission to "replace the Word of God" with their own well-meaning good-sounding traditions/renditions.

Any denomination dedicated to replacing the Word of God with "something else" is making a mistake.

 

[Peter1000]

Is there any document that you can point to regarding the New Covenant.



There is "no bible" text connecting the New Covenant with "New Law in Christ" -- And noting in the BoM does that either.

Are you short on documents for that statement?

Read the entire D&C. The centerpiece of our religion is Jesus Christ. Also we have as part of our scriptures, the KJV of the NT, so whatever is in there, is part of our documentation that we are living the new covenant.

The law of Moses is a book of commandments, and the Israelite leaders pushed their people to think if I keep all of these commandments, I will get to heaven. The leaders completely gave up on the spirit of the law and it became a rope that hanged them.

The law of Christ is the NT and the centerpiece of the law of Christ is found in Galatians 6:2.
This is a major part of our doctrine as spelled out in the BOM and Bible and D&C and our monthly publications etc.

Paul taught some things that were hard to understand and it has confused many Christians. Especially about grace vs works. Being at liberty to jettison the entire law of Moses and none is in affect in the new covenant. Well read Jesus's words and you will find some very conflicting doctrines between Jesus and Paul. Most Christians side with Paul and pay lip service to Jesus.

For instance, Jesus says in order for you to be forgiven of all your sins against God, you must forgive all sins against you. Christians quickly come to say, that is not in affect today because Paul says that Christ's righteousness has been imputed on to you and you don't have to worry about forgiving now, because Jesus has taken care of it. I would not be too fast to count the words of Jesus out.

I did not see your answer in regards to the new priesthood. Look at that question and take a stab at the meaning and let me know?