Moriah's statement - Can it be framed !!??!

[ydouxist]

In relation to salvation

Moriah answers: Nothing anymore. A lie, a trick, a mindjob pretending to cure ills what actually creates them. In 28 years of being aware of the meaning of christian faith and 44 years of being alive, it has not yet ever met a single follower of christ who truly and consistently embodied the likeness of His character in their person. And ironically the ones most hung up on "living right" seem to be the most toxic of all.

Then let it begin with you Moriah.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Then let it begin with you Moriah.

It does not recall claiming to have been an exception.... had it claimed to be an exception, you would see it here telling you all how to do it rather than telling you all it does not exist. Honestly it has more hope for the experiences of others than for its own. You have misspoken, friend.

 

[Optimax]

MOD HAT ON​

Just a reminder ​

Please remember to direct your post to the issues​

Not to an individual​

Keep them polite and free of personal attacks​

Thank you​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Baker Books has recently published a new book by Michael Horton entitled, Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church. In the very first chapter, Horton makes a statement which brilliantly summarizes the matter Moriah has been trying to convey:

"If we are good people who have lost our way but with the proper instructions and motivation can become [better people], we need only a life coach, not a redeemer."

I'd agree with that, we need a Redeemer.

what I was saying is once we're on this way of salvation, it's important to not fall away - cause unfortunately there are some who do

Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

I never meant to give the impression that this is something we do entirely on our own. Rather, when we go through trials or anything that might cause us to lose faith..we should ask God for the strength and the grace to endure.. and when we realize our sinfulness or see that our faith is unfruitful, we should not be too discouraged but with trust come to God for mercy. I think what you were saying Moriah is that the natural person simply wouldn't *want* to come to God? I agree with that, this is why I said that He helps us do so and our souls do get 're born', the more we follow Christ the more we're given new desires to live for God. That's why the more we follow Him, the harder it is to fall away. But the Bible warns us that sin easily entangles, and I've known people who stopped repenting of sin (even though they felt like they should), and after some time they actually lost their faith so my whole point is not that we walk this journey by ourselves, but that every day we (by grace) have to make that choice to listen to God and have the intention of obeying His will - and then rely on His mercy to help us live out that obedience.

Peace

 

[MoNiCa4316]

trying to fix missing post ghostpage glitch...

there's another one now

 

[MoNiCa4316]

not anymore!!

 

[FoundInGrace]

If I hadn't given up and let God I dread to think where I'd be

I wish I was able to let God do more with me, I am able to but I dont at times for all sorts of reasons, God forgive me

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Well, that would be why Moriah says there's no "let".

Because when you get right down to it, there can only be two potential natures or minds in us -- that of the flesh (which everyone's born with and stuck with) and that of the supernaturally regenerated spirit which only Christ can give.

The latter would never have a problem with "letting" God do anything, because it's created in perfect harmony with Him. It desires to do His will. That's why His word says if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

However, the other nature, the carnal mind, exists in enmity against God. It cannot be made subject to the law of God. It does not simply or merely "refuse" to "LET" ... it actually bes entirely INCAPABLE of doing otherwise. It would be a misnomer to say the carnal mind/carnal nature "refuses" to "let" because "refuse" implies it has the ability to do otherwise. Yet the very definition of that nature remains one which has ZERO ability to be subject to God's law. It CANNOT "let". It cannot even WANT to "let".

And so sunken in it, without Christ to lift them out, a human being will perish in his or her sins. And from the position of being sunken in it, the human being has absolutely zero power and zero ability to do one stinking thing about it. They must have a miracle from God, or they perish. Christ MUST come regenerate the spirit and give a new life, or they perish. They cannot save themselves; they can neither "let" nor even WANT to "let" in that condition. And it does not require demonic possession to be in so dire and desperate a state -- this comes from plain old ordinary existence as being fallen creatures ourselves!!!

Now since the regenerated spirit CAN and WILL always "let", it has no need of "letting" because that's where it lives. It does not live in some default refuse-God place where it has to consciously and deliberately "LET" God do anything; on the contrary, wanting God and wanting to obey God constitutes its default state. And the unregenerated flesh would be the exact opposite, it cannot "let" nor even WANT to "let" so for it, no "letting" would ever be possible, therefore for it there would be no "let" at all.

So since there would be no "let" for EITHER nature ... that would be why Moriah says that "LET" does not exist. It's a red herring, a non-issue. All that matters would be God. Either He moves and acts or He does not. If He does, we have hope. If He does not, we perish. Plain and simple. All Him. None of us.

Make sense?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Every Christian must allow God to have His way every day in some fashion. It's an act of the will. We are not perfect people just because we are Christians--we are in the process of sanctification. Until we are fully sanctified when we stand before Christ, we must habitually LET Jesus Christ have dominion in our lives daily.

Listen to Paul:

Romans 7:14-25
So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. I love God’s law with all my heart. But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

This leads to...

Romans 8:5-14
Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.



Go by the Word...not by what one thinks.

So it's the Holy Spirit in me Who has more power.

Yeah

 

[mrhappy3]

Every Christian must allow God to have His way every day in some fashion. It's an act of the will. We are not perfect people just because we are Christians--we are in the process of sanctification. Until we are fully sanctified when we stand before Christ, we must habitually LET Jesus Christ have dominion in our lives daily.

Listen to Paul:

Romans 7:14-25
So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. I love God’s law with all my heart. But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

This leads to...

Romans 8:5-14
Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.



Go by the Word...not by what one thinks.

Brother, can you tell me what version of the bible is this ?

many Thanks

 

[the.Sheepdog]

yes we all would love to know! I really like the way it reads! Awesome!

 

[LogosRhema]

It would only be a blessed thing to be hated for HIS sake though ...


...



...



...... not one's own.

Hi Moriah

It misses you!

 

[LogosRhema]

What? Are you an "it" now, too?

I know Moriah well enough to know that I won't offend her.

Hence my

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

yes we all would love to know! I really like the way it reads! Awesome!

It's a paraphrase, not an accurate translation.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Hi Moriah

It misses you!

How you doing dear one.

 

[LogosRhema]

How you doing dear one.

I'm fine, finished another semester of college. Sorry I haven't been around to chat... very busy.

Have you improved since we last spoken? I know you were making some progress but last I spoke with you it was still an epic battle. If you aren't comfortable answering here pm me! I certainly do miss our conversations!!!

Besides that how've you been?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I'm fine, finished another semester of college. Sorry I haven't been around to chat... very busy.

Have you improved since we last spoken? I know you were making some progress but last I spoke with you it was still an epic battle. If you aren't comfortable answering here pm me! I certainly do miss our conversations!!!

Besides that how've you been?

Let's take this conversation to private, Friend. A lot has happened and much of it will likely displease you to hear. If Moriah knows her friend as she thinks she does, your righteous indignation will be aroused. If you want to catch up read the last week's entries in its blog. Hit it up on MSN sometime when you've got a stretch.

 

[LogosRhema]

Let's take this conversation to private, Friend. A lot has happened and much of it will likely displease you to hear. If Moriah knows her friend as she thinks she does, your righteous indignation will be aroused. If you want to catch up read the last week's entries in its blog. Hit it up on MSN sometime when you've got a stretch.

Righteous indignation? Moriah... Moriah! You've still to learn I'm your ally in this. I most certainly will take the conversation private... Hope to catch you soon. I have two weeks off of school and work... plant shutdown, so I'll see you around then.

God bless.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

For us, not against us. For us.
Talk to you soon.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Well, that would be why Moriah says there's no "let".

Because when you get right down to it, there can only be two potential natures or minds in us -- that of the flesh (which everyone's born with and stuck with) and that of the supernaturally regenerated spirit which only Christ can give.

The latter would never have a problem with "letting" God do anything, because it's created in perfect harmony with Him. It desires to do His will. That's why His word says if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

However, the other nature, the carnal mind, exists in enmity against God. It cannot be made subject to the law of God. It does not simply or merely "refuse" to "LET" ... it actually bes entirely INCAPABLE of doing otherwise. It would be a misnomer to say the carnal mind/carnal nature "refuses" to "let" because "refuse" implies it has the ability to do otherwise. Yet the very definition of that nature remains one which has ZERO ability to be subject to God's law. It CANNOT "let". It cannot even WANT to "let".

And so sunken in it, without Christ to lift them out, a human being will perish in his or her sins. And from the position of being sunken in it, the human being has absolutely zero power and zero ability to do one stinking thing about it. They must have a miracle from God, or they perish. Christ MUST come regenerate the spirit and give a new life, or they perish. They cannot save themselves; they can neither "let" nor even WANT to "let" in that condition. And it does not require demonic possession to be in so dire and desperate a state -- this comes from plain old ordinary existence as being fallen creatures ourselves!!!

Now since the regenerated spirit CAN and WILL always "let", it has no need of "letting" because that's where it lives. It does not live in some default refuse-God place where it has to consciously and deliberately "LET" God do anything; on the contrary, wanting God and wanting to obey God constitutes its default state. And the unregenerated flesh would be the exact opposite, it cannot "let" nor even WANT to "let" so for it, no "letting" would ever be possible, therefore for it there would be no "let" at all.

So since there would be no "let" for EITHER nature ... that would be why Moriah says that "LET" does not exist. It's a red herring, a non-issue. All that matters would be God. Either He moves and acts or He does not. If He does, we have hope. If He does not, we perish. Plain and simple. All Him. None of us.

Make sense?

I realise it's been a while since this post but wanted to reply in case it is read at some point. It is very true that our conscience is seared the more we do our own thing, it's one of the principles of life, the more we rebel against God the harder our hearts get. But I also believe and have known God's mercy in that even the slightest step toward Him even the smallest turn of our heart toward Him He does respond to, and for those in bondage of any kind God knows how hard that can be and He honors every single effort we make to honor Him within our circumstances. For He does not willingly bring affliction on the sons of men.

I also believe when we do not respond to God it is because we do not know God in some way sometimes. Whether it is out of fear, laziness or selfishness or whatever, when we do not respond it can be because of a lack of knowledge, not always but that is partly what my experience has been.

I believe prayer also softens hearts toward God, I don't know how that works but many a parent or grandparent has seen prayers for their wayward children happen. What we see as impossible and are told by the enemy is impossible to change is not with God.
If theres one thing the devil cant take from me now God willing it's knowing what I see as a brick wall isn't necessarily and that there is always hope in God for change.