More issues to mention: The selling of goods in church

[98cwitr]

I'd still ask if you find the sales to be exploitative. Does the pastor make people feel like Jesus will bless them or be more favorable to them if they buy the goods?

Does she make them feel guilty if they don't want to buy the stuff?

Does the church make an unreasonable profit?

Or is it just being offered as an option for people who want it?

The last option.

 

[dies-l]

The last option.

Then, I don't see a problem with it, especially if the proceeds to to help people in developing nations attain self sufficiency and possibly learn about Jesus.

 

[MrJim]

Is it still just the fair trade coffee or has it expanded?

 

[SeventhValley]

You should run up to the table after service and flip it in front of everyone

 

[JM]

(Classical Liberal Rant: Fair Trade isn't really all that fair...and minimum wage isn't either. Ok, I feel better.)

As long as they are not selling during a service I don't see what the problem is.

 

[98cwitr]

You should run up to the table after service and flip it in front of everyone

Thought about it

 

[98cwitr]

Is it still just the fair trade coffee or has it expanded?

Coffee and chocolate

 

[USCGrad90]

This subject has been discussed in our church. One area that I bring into the discussion is that of Wednesday night dinner. Our church provides a time for a meal on Wednesdays and charges a nominal fee of around $4 for the meal which usually includes a meat, 2 vegtables, dessert, bread, and beverage. The intent is to cover costs and not necessarily raise money . The cooks are servers are all volunteers. The mealtime provides a place where families can gather prior to worshipping and meet with other families and friends. It also serves as a way to bring in visitors and if someone is hungry and cannot afford the fee, they are provided for. In a legalistic fashion - one could call this selling in the church, but with the purpose of coming together in Chrisitan love and focus on God, I do not believe this is wrong. I believe that the passage from John on driving out the merchants and moneylenders was intended to show that their focus was on the wrong things and not God. I think the lesson here is for us is not to take that which is spiritual and make it into something which is purely physical or material.

 

[revrobor]

bad part is the pastor is my girlfriend's sister...haha.

Fact of the matter is that i am NOT convinced that it is wrong...I am making an assumption based on my interpretation (literal) of Scripture. I posted this thread to gain other viewpoints from people more or less wiser than myself regarding these matters.

I'm not looking for a perfect congregation...I am seeking truth. This is all I am doing at this point in my faith.

I'd be more concerned about being in a church with a female pastor than about selling stuff in the building.

 

[sboe]

I'd be more concerned about being in a church with a female pastor than about selling stuff in the building.

I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't leave the church for selling some coffee, I wouldn't be going to the church with a female pastor to start off with.

 

[Bella Vita]

My church has a book store inside with Bibles, Christian books, and other little items. I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[trentlogain2]

why are people advising to this guy that he should leave his church due to this???

 

[98cwitr]

why are people advising to this guy that he should leave his church due to this???

Because if a church is doing unbiblical things then a person should leave. Im not going to leave though...I am marrying the girl of my dreams and I am in full faith that our union has been sustained by God directly (and I'd be happy to elaborate on that)...her sister just happens to be a pastor

 

[98cwitr]

Yay...add some Christian-based books to the list now. Youth were involved in the sales and as my wife is the youth director, I will ask her to talk to the pastor (my new sister-in-law) about it. If that doesn't get anywhere I'll have to talk to her directly. Need to pray about it first....

 

[98cwitr]

My church has a book store inside with Bibles, Christian books, and other little items. I see nothing wrong with it.

We have that too, but it's more of a library to check them out at no cost. Why do you think Jesus was so mad in John 2?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

bad part is the pastor is my girlfriend's sister...haha.
.

Whoa! There is a bigger issue, women can not be pastors.

Titus 1
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.

1. A Pastor must be devoted to his wife; one-woman man (Titus 1:6; 1 Tim 3:2).

The pastor’s marriage illustrates Christ’s love for His church—His bride (Eph. 5:22 ff.). A Pastor must love his wife exclusively with his mind, will and emotions and not just his body.

This is the big one, a pastor illustrates Christ, and Jesus is a male, not a female.

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body,[d] of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

God is all about illustration, marriage is an illustration, the church is an illustration, an illustration of the relationship of Christ and his people, this is why it is so critical for pastors to be male, and marriages to be between one man and one woman. The man illustrates Jesus, the woman illustrates the church.

1 Timothy 2
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
34 Let your[a] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Illustrating the church relationship with Jesus Christ, we each member, go to Jesus directly in prayer, as a woman comes directly to her husband.

 

[tall73]

Whoa! There is a bigger issue, women can not be pastors.

Titus 1
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.

1. A Pastor must be devoted to his wife; one-woman man (Titus 1:6; 1 Tim 3:2).

The pastor’s marriage illustrates Christ’s love for His church—His bride (Eph. 5:22 ff.). A Pastor must love his wife exclusively with his mind, will and emotions and not just his body.

This is the big one, a pastor illustrates Christ, and Jesus is a male, not a female.

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body,[d] of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

God is all about illustration, marriage is an illustration, the church is an illustration, an illustration of the relationship of Christ and his people, this is why it is so critical for pastors to be male, and marriages to be between one man and one woman. The man illustrates Jesus, the woman illustrates the church.

1 Timothy 2
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
34 Let your[a] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Illustrating the church relationship with Jesus Christ, we each member, go to Jesus directly in prayer, as a woman comes directly to her husband.

Perhaps that topic would be better in its own thread so it doesn't detract from the primary one in this thread.

 

[jsimms615]

I think if coffee or donuts or whatever is available it should be free.

 

[revrobor]

Our "Churches" today are not temples. They are simply buildings dedicated to God we have erected and are no more "Holy" than a grocery store. The Church meets there for teaching, worship and fellowship. Selling things in that building is not prohibited by scripture.

 

[98cwitr]

wow...