"More Dangerous than Covid-19

[ArmyMatt]

As to dipping, I suppose I've seen priests use more buoyant bread or a different design of spoon because I can easily image the part of the spoon above the bowl coming into contact with a communicants lip and that part of the spoon not be fully immersed.

as a priest, and having held the cloth for other priests before, I can say I have never seen the spoon go in and not be submerged. even the most boyand particles still force the spoon to go into the Blood to lift them out, and get excess Blood to stay in the Chalice.

 

[walking.away.123]

as a priest, and having held the cloth for other priests before, I can say I have never seen the spoon go in and not be submerged. even the most boyand particles still force the spoon to go into the Blood to lift them out, and get excess Blood to stay in the Chalice.

I'm not very tall.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm not very tall.

neither am I.

 

[walking.away.123]

neither am I.

I'm not a priest. You have a different view. I should probably ask around if I thought it was important.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm not a priest. You have a different view. I should probably ask around if I thought it was important.

I was an altar server many years before I was ordained, and every priest I saw always submerged the spoon.

 

[walking.away.123]

I was an altar server many years before I was ordained, and every priest I saw always submerged the spoon.

Do you and other priests you know cut the Body into smaller pieces before putting it into the chalice? And do you and they places the prosphora for the Theotokos, the 9 ranks, etc. into the chalice before serving communion?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Do you and other priests you know cut the Body into smaller pieces before putting it into the chalice? And do you and they places the prosphora for the Theotokos, the 9 ranks, etc. into the chalice before serving communion?

yes to the first and no to the second. the pieces that aren't from the Lamb are put into the Chalice after the priest gives out communion.

not sure what this has to do with what we are talking about.

 

[walking.away.123]

not sure what this has to do with what we are talking about.

Smaller pieces might mean not submerging the spoon. I'm trying to see what you're seeing, because what I'm seeing seems unimaginable to you.
Edited for pride.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Some priest put the smaller pieces in first. Not correct according to Fr. Alkiviadis Calivas who was mentioned earlier, but I'm not going to correct anyone.



Smaller pieces might mean not submerging the spoon. I'm trying to see what you're seeing, because what I'm seeing seems unimaginable to you.

you sure it wasn't the Lamb cut up into particles?

smaller pieces still mean to submerge the spoon, as the spoon needs to go into the Blood to get under even the smallest pieces.

 

[Dorothea]

Dorothea, thank you for sharing such a great article!!!

You're welcome!

 

[Dorothea]

Laura - my understanding is the Greek and Russian [ in my case it was Ukrainian Catholic ] practice differs.

In the Ukrainian Church we did not take the Spoon into our mouths - as was described to me - 'head back , mouth wide open and the priest will drop the Holy Gifts into your mouth - you do not touch the spoon'

A Greek Orthodox Priest told me that when he administers the Holy Gifts the Communicant does take the spoon into their mouth

I've seen the practice you describe in your parish done in Antiochian ones as well.

 

[archer75]

Do you actually put your mouth on the spoon itself? It’s supposed to be poured into someone’s mouth, not putting lips on it directly.

We were specifically instructed at my OCA parish to close our mouths completely around the spoon, and were reminded that the Gifts "are food. You eat them."

 

[truefiction1]

I agree with that. I knew a priest who had to help put in order a parish where the elderly rector hadn't been able to hold services for a long time. While the church was shut up, rats had got into the place where reserve communion was kept and left their droppings. The priest had no choice but to consume it. He didn't even have a stomach ache later.

However, in the current situation, it wouldn't be transmission from Christ's Body or Blood, but from the saliva of the person who previously communed which remained on the spoon.

Let's ask two hypotheticals.
Could a virus be transmitted from saliva that remained on a part of the spoon which had not touched the Blood?

Could a virus agent remain in a droplet of saliva which had touched the Blood but had not mixed with it?

I think I know the answer to each but I'd like to hear what you think, and why if you have time.

It shouldn't matter even if any of these these things were the case.

 

[Markie Boy]

I find it odd - when I really dig all things point to communion being in the hand in the earliest Church. Yet Orthodoxy changed this. Vey much like the Latin Church did.

Even though when pressed both sides admit they changed it - they deviate from the original, stating what they do now is more proper.

As one searching - it makes you question, if they will change one thing, how many others have been modified?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I find it odd - when I really dig all things point to communion being in the hand in the earliest Church. Yet Orthodoxy changed this. Vey much like the Latin Church did.

Even though when pressed both sides admit they changed it - they deviate from the original, stating what they do now is more proper.

As one searching - it makes you question, if they will change one thing, how many others have been modified?

changing practice is fine. it's happened throughout the years. it's the theology that cannot be changed.

 

[truefiction1]

I find it odd - when I really dig all things point to communion being in the hand in the earliest Church. Yet Orthodoxy changed this. Vey much like the Latin Church did.

Even though when pressed both sides admit they changed it - they deviate from the original, stating what they do now is more proper.

As one searching - it makes you question, if they will change one thing, how many others have been modified?

The only reason that we stopped giving it to people to handle themselves is from concern that some might desecrate it, which I believe was a valid concern or they wouldn't have changed the practice. It's still the same bread and wine; Body and Blood. The only difference is in how it is received.

 

[All4Christ]

@Markie Boy There are some things that change praxis wise in every single church. The important thing is that it isn’t just for opinion’s sake, that it doesn’t change dogmas or doctrine, the core of the values and praxis, and that it doesn’t lose the authenticity and organic grown of the Church. The liturgy if the early church, for example, followed the same pattern. It was - however - not fully developed into the beautiful liturgy of today.

In the case of the Eucharist, the practice of combining the body and blood was due to it being sacred and due to keeping it from being dropped or handled incorrectly. It was for a need that arose in the Church. Having both the body and blood each time one partakes of the Eucharist, however, is consistent from the time of the early church.

 

[archer75]

If you let yourself imagine or believe that a month after Pentecost anyone knew about every practice or every controversy familiar to us today, you will definitely be disappointed and may lose heart.

You should go into this understanding that practices change. Languages change. People bicker over non-essentials. These things can be a source of stress, even without sinful actions, but they shouldn't affect the faith.

 

[Markie Boy]

OK - so in Catholic circles I have heard things like - we are not worthy to handle it, only the consecrated hands of the priest is worthy to handle the Eucharist, so you have to only receive on the tongue.

I guess that's some of where I am coming from. I can't figure how I'm not worthy to touch with my hand, but it's ok for me to chew and swallow.

The other argument I have heard is concern about particles falling, and Jesus being vacuumed up - but I don't think He is stuck in the crumbs like He's trapped and can't get out. After all, we do digest the elements.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it's not about worthiness (especially since the Tsar, who was a layman, could receive with the hands) since none are worthy.

both were just ways to guard the Eucharist, since folks back in the day would do all kinds of experiments to pieces of Communion they'd bring home.