Ministers threatened with jail and thousands in fines for refusing to marry gays

[TLK Valentine]

With that logic, God allows abortion and homosexual marriage then.

Good guy, God.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Good guy, God.

I think she is confusing the Romans 2:15. Then again interracial marriage is also a sin against God by her logic so I am not really going to argue with someone who cherry picks and warps the context of scripture to fit their cultural presuppositions of interpretation.

 

[YeShallTread]

With that logic, God allows abortion and homosexual marriage then.

That isn't logical at all ChristsSoldier. Because our laws allow something doesn't mean God's laws do the same...quite the opposite.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That isn't logical at all ChristsSoldier. Because our laws allow something doesn't mean God's laws do the same...quite the opposite.

Then have God write His congressman -- it's how we get our laws changed.

 

[YeShallTread]

Then have God write His congressman -- it's how we get our laws changed.

His congressman?


Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

 

[YeShallTread]

Good guy, God.

Good "guy" God?

Romans 1:22-24 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Fools change the uncorruptible God into corruptible man. What does God do with those who do such?


Guy = "boy, man"

 

[TLK Valentine]

His congressman?


Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Death threats are not covered by the First Amendment -- if God wants to change the laws, it would help His case if He did so legally...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Good "guy" God?

Romans 1:22-24 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Fools change the uncorruptible God into corruptible man. What does God do with those who do such?


Guy = "boy, man"

Kill their great-grandchildren.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

"incorruptible" indeed.

 

[YeShallTread]

Death threats are not covered by the First Amendment -- if God wants to change the laws, it would help His case if He did so legally...

You have that backwards TLK. The laws were given....man changed the laws and did so at his own peril.

As for death threats...what is the difference in "threat and promise?"

 

[YeShallTread]

Kill their great-grandchildren.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

"incorruptible" indeed.

Do the "great-grandchildren" also "hate" Him as do the fathers that hate Him?

If yes, then they too will be dealt with.

 

[bhsmte]

Do the "great-grandchildren" also "hate" Him as do the fathers that hate Him?

If yes, then they too will be dealt with.

Dealt with how?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

That isn't logical at all ChristsSoldier. Because our laws allow something doesn't mean God's laws do the same...quite the opposite.

Why do the laws of a secular nation that you live in bother you? They promote sins? What is the counter to sin? laws of man, or faith in Christ? Perhaps you should focus on the latter instead of the former and let the latter do the work for you as you witness and spread the Light of Christ, because the darkness cannot overcome it.

 

[bhsmte]

You have that backwards TLK. The laws were given....man changed the laws and did so at his own peril.

As for death threats...what is the difference in "threat and promise?"

If you want religious based laws, you live in the wrong country.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Do the "great-grandchildren" also "hate" Him as do the fathers that hate Him?

If yes, then they too will be dealt with.

If God killed their great-grandfather, they don't have a lot of incentive to love Him.

My Uncle was wounded twice in Vietnam; unsurprisingly, I'm not a big fan of Ho Chi Minh.

 

[NotreDame]

If a person holds the religious belief that homosexuals should be allowed to marry and wishes to conduct the ceremony, should the government prevent him from doing so and refuse to recognize the marriage as legal?

There are Christian denominations that wish to perform SSMs but are prevented by the state from doing so. Pastors in those denomination are in fact in danger of fines or jail time if they perform a same-sex wedding ceremony.

What is your opinion on the state persecuting those Christians based on their religious beliefs?

What state is this engaging in this behavior?

Which is restricted when it comes to places of public accommodation.

You do know that all freedoms in the Bill of Rights are subject to restrictions, right?

This isn't accurate. The Bill of Rights isn't "subject to restrictions." Rather, the Bill of Rights enumerates rights which are not absolute but restrain government power. The government has a very high burden to justify infringement upon those rights.

Furthermore, the U.S. Supreme Court has acknowledged public accommodation law can infringe upon a right in the Bill of Rights. Specifically, in the case of HURLEY v. IRISH-AMERICAN GAY GROUP OF BOSTON FindLaw | Cases and Codes, the U.S. Supreme Court held the Massachusetts public accommodation law was unconstitutional as applied because of infringement upon 1st Amendment free speech rights.

 

[Queller]

What other restrictions force people to violate their religious beliefs.

Laws against the use of peyote, laws against the use of marijuana, laws pertaining to animal sacrifice in religions like Santeria, etc.

For instance, there is no limitation I can think of that forces you to speak against your own beliefs, or to publish against your own beliefs

Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

[Queller]

The First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I don't see anything in there about businesses. Can you point it out?

 

[Queller]

No church has a mandate to impose its own laws on the state.

What about religions? Do they have a mandate to impose their laws on the state through their adherents?

No state likewise ought to mandate to a church what rites its can or cannot perform.

Does that mean you oppose bans on same-sex marriages that interfere with a religious group's belief that they should be allowed to perform same-sex marriages?

 

[MachZer0]

Laws against the use of peyote, laws against the use of marijuana, laws pertaining to animal sacrifice in religions like Santeria, etc.

Those laws prevent people from acting. This is about forcing someone to act. There's a big difference

 

[MachZer0]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I don't see anything in there about businesses. Can you point it out?

Exactly the point. The free exercise of religion is not thus restricted to private lives. It extends to all walks of life