Maybe Moses was invented by the Rabbis ?

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annier

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Annier, fear not, YHVH is with you both and that is all that really matters...this is an attempt to divert from the OP and start a whole different discussion. I know many Messianic Jewish people (I love them, they are my brothers and sisters in Christ)... the way most of them "keep the feasts" is in no wise Biblical (Torah) but are various evolved traditions (cultural phenomena)...for example I only have known one who actually builds a Sukkoth in their back yard and their family resides nightly for meals, she (Alissa) however actually sleeps there as well (weather permitting meaning assuming there are no nor'easters or deluge type rainstorms). She has (obviously) never made a sacrifice or burnt offering and keeps the proper Seder on the 14th of Nisan as opposed to the Rabbinical man-made tradition on the 15th...so it does not matter if our traditions differ as these are cultural adaptations...

As for "keeping the feasts", no matter how you celebrate them is awesome and I believe we all should be mindful of them and if possible keep them for the sake of the communion it encourages and the honor we give to YHVH through doing so...as for Christmas or Easter, these were never the official Christian celebrations but "traditions" added later by men just like attending synagogue on the 7th day Sabbath or holding the Seder on the evening of the 15th...the original celebration f the Paschal feast (Pascha from Pesach or Passover) was celebrated on the 14th and ended with an all night vigil until the morning of first fruits (the 1st day following the 7th day Sabbath in the feast of Unleavend Bread, which they apparently kept) so fear not...do not feel attacked...these things are no longer required in the New Covenant in His blood (let no man judge you on the day you keep or on New Moons or Sabbaths)...you are IN HIM and He fulfilled the whole of the law...one a covenant agreement has been fulfilled (He fulfilled man's part) the terms of the covenant are no longer binding.

In His love

Paul
Thank you Paul. I also have known many Messianics.I have no Issue with cultural traditions. I think the problem here is false ideas and terms being put forth. How the Catholic Church keeps Easter, has nothing to do with Easter bunnies. The same goes for Christmas. In fact the orthodox Church still calls "Easter" Pascha. Catholicism has priestly services, and celebrates the mass as an holy convocation. What individual Catholic's do apart from this convocation has nothing to do with the convocation to attend services in the Holydays. And no, I am not Catholic. You do not need to be Catholic to know the priests do not have bunnies, and Christmas trees as an element of their ministry to the faithful.
 
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annier

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Surely not attempting to answer 'for' annier. But I imagine from her posts that she does not believe it possible to 'truly observe' the Torah as given from Sinai. I believe she see's 'true Judaism' as defined by Torah and not by the Rabbi's (Talmud). She doesn't see the continuation from Temple/Levitical preisthood leadership to Rabbinical/Yavneh leadership as described in the Talmud.
Bingo Shimshon... You pretty much nailed it here. I think it could even be seen as replacement theology.
So I would imagine that she does not observe as is being put forth as the 'only valid' way of observance, namely Rabbinical observance to Torah via Talmud and its prescribed observance of Torah laws.
I also think it is unfortunate the way Moses Torah is being handled. I think alot is missed by ignoring the holy priesthood, and it's significance. I think it is actually quite similar to what Messianics say about Christianity ignoring its Judaic root. Messianics which buy into the Rabbinic replacement theology of the priesthood are ignoring the Mosaic root.
So in this way I can see how she is being put on the spot. The jest from the 'H' posters here (what is up with that?) from my POV is the Rabbi's are THE way to observe the Torah, and how could she possible observe anything other? Hence the 'what do you observe' question. If she openly states 'ONLY what is written in Torah' maybe she knows she will be countered with 'well how do you determine what is written without the Talmud?'. And round and round we go...........
I really could care less about this Shimshon. I am more concerned about the diminishing of Moses Torah by the Rabbinic replacement of the priesthood Moses established.
 
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annier

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As we do not know exactly what the Urim and Thummim were, we have no idea how they worked. All we know is that they conveyed Yahweh's decision to the priests.

The priests were given the duty to be the judges of Israel. The Pharisees were not. They were usurpers who took on duties belonging to the priests alone. I don't think there was any book of legal decisions yet, but if there were, it belonged to the priests too.
I agree, it would belong to the priests.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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We are not to judge people in their keeping of the laws of God's feast days, and I do not judge anyone whether they go to Jerusalem every year, or keep the Sukkot by all the laws, why would I?

I do however have a problem with folk insinuating that I can't judge between what is of God and what isn't.

Paul telling people not to judge other people in their Sabbaths and feasts has NOTHING TO DO WITH CONVERTING TO FEASTS OF ANOTHER RELIGION.

Paul says that the feasts are shadows of things to come, not things passed.


When Paul was speaking to converts of Judaism, there was no doubt that everyone of them had converted to Judaism and then rejected their former pagan ways.



And we aren't to judge people whether they keep the laws of feasts of Jesus or not.

I don't


This is all good Hannibal and I agree for the most part it is item two (the insinuating part) that has me worried…what is of God and what is not…this was Annier’s point as well…I think keeping the feasts is a great thing for people of the Covenant made at Horeb to do. That covenant was not made with the fathers nor with the gentiles so they are not converting anything. If in the process of time the Rabbis have changed how these are to be observed, then your very point is really applicable to them (discerning what is of God and what is not we must turn to the revealed word of God as our basis)

In the New Covenant in His blood, some new ways of observing some feasts were instituted. As we see in the decision of the Jerusalem counsel not one gentile was commanded to do Sukkoth as a remembrance of what occurred in the wilderness (how they dwelt in tents), the Passover is now about the Lamb that was slain and has risen, the 10 commandments have been given new deeper meaning by the very one who gave them to Moses, and so on

But what about the OP’s insinuation….Talmud trumps Torah? Or the books of Moses (as implied we cannot be sure they were of Moses which would mean Yeshua was in error) should be interpreted by Talmud (instead of the other way around)? Hmmm?

I have a real hard time not deleting what I write, it was something I had to learn to get over, I became a problem with forums because I deleted everything.

Everything I say is vain and yet I leave it up.

I try and come with the feast of Jesus from many angles. I learned that pointing out fault never hardly ever works.

I want to ask you a question


Thursday, September 25th is the feast of Trumpets.

The prophets detail what will happen on this day in the future, it is the wedding banquet.

There are ten days of repentance to Yom Kippur, and in these days, God is looking at people and making decisions, and after that comes the joy.


Do you believe this takes place every year?

That Jesus is in a priesthood, and every year he comes and speaks for you on these days, whether or not to seal you.

Does this happen every year, or is it something that has passed away and is no longer in effect?
 
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pshun2404

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Thursday, September 25th is the feast of Trumpets. The prophets detail what will happen on this day in the future, it is the wedding banquet.

Hallelujah! I can’t wait…

There are ten days of repentance to Yom Kippur, and in these days, God is looking at people and making decisions, and after that comes the joy. Do you believe this takes place every year?

Every day is a day of repentance now, and there is no more need for the Yom Kippur sacrifice. The only efficacious and appropriate atonement has been made “once for all” so there is no longer any need or requirement of observing Yom Kippur (not that it can be observed properly any longer even if one not covered by Yeshua’s blood were to try to). But making some sort of cultural observance in memory of the blessing and glory this feast of temporary atonement is fine if you wish.

That Jesus is in a priesthood, and every year he comes and speaks for you on these days, whether or not to seal you.

Yes He is our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, is that what you are referring to? Also, I am already sealed until the day of redemption I do not require being re-sealed over and over and actually neither do you if you have been born of His Spirit.

Does this happen every year, or is it something that has passed away and is no longer in effect?

Well aside from the historical fact that it has ceased (just as Daniel prophesied it would after Messiah was “cut off” ), and that what the Rabbis teach as "observant" regarding Yom Kippur is not allowed in the Torah, it no longer is necessary because Messiah has died for your sins.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Thursday, September 25th is the feast of Trumpets. The prophets detail what will happen on this day in the future, it is the wedding banquet.

Hallelujah! I can’t wait…

There are ten days of repentance to Yom Kippur, and in these days, God is looking at people and making decisions, and after that comes the joy. Do you believe this takes place every year?

Every day is a day of repentance now, and there is no more need for the Yom Kippur sacrifice. The only efficacious and appropriate atonement has been made “once for all” so there is no longer any need or requirement of observing Yom Kippur (not that it can be observed properly any longer even if one not covered by Yeshua’s blood were to try to). But making some sort of cultural observance in memory of the blessing and glory this feast of temporary atonement is fine if you wish.

That Jesus is in a priesthood, and every year he comes and speaks for you on these days, whether or not to seal you.

Yes He is our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, is that what you are referring to? Also, I am already sealed until the day of redemption I do not require being re-sealed over and over and actually neither do you if you have been born of His Spirit.

Does this happen every year, or is it something that has passed away and is no longer in effect?

Well aside from the historical fact that it has ceased (just as Daniel prophesied it would after Messiah was “cut off” ), and that what the Rabbis teach as "observant" regarding Yom Kippur is not allowed in the Torah, it no longer is necessary because Messiah has died for your sins.

I am not talking about Sacrifices.

I am speaking of the coming of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur with it.


You don't think Jesus is coming for Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur?

You don't think or know that Jesus is coming for Sukkot bringing Simchat Torah with it?

Is this reality what you were promised and hoped for?


You don't see Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot in Revelation?

Has the marriage ceremony happened?

Has there been a night that turned to day?

Do you have the promised covering?
 
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pshun2404

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Jesus is here and He provided the atonement (the covering) once for all who would receive Him (John 1:12; Acts 2:38; Ephesians 1:13)...He is now sitting at the right hand of the Father...no getting up and down repeating the sacrifice...He IS the tabernacle of God (not made with hands) and the tabernacling of God with men...He came and dwelt (skeenoo - pitched tent) among us (God with us) and we are no longer part of the order of the first Adam (therefore not counted as his offspring) but are now the sons of God (beni-Elohim)...we are "covered" by His blood (God's asham)
 
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annier

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Jesus is here and He provided the atonement (the covering) once for all who would receive Him (John 1:12; Acts 2:38; Ephesians 1:13)...He is now sitting at the right hand of the Father...no getting up and down repeating the sacrifice...He IS the tabernacle of God (not made with hands) and the tabernacling of God with men...He came and dwelt (skeenoo - pitched tent) among us (God with us) and we are no longer part of the order of the first Adam (therefore not counted as his offspring) but are now the sons of God (beni-Elohim)...we are "covered" by His blood (God's asham)
I fear many in the Messianic movement are teetering upon making Jewish traditions equal to what the historic Church calls Sacraments. The benefit they attach to them are quite similar. That is a major reason why it concerns me the distortions, and exaggerations being made concerning Catholicism and what religious practice is, and religious practice of Moses law. People cannot examine themselves in these things if these ideas are distorted.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I fear many in the Messianic movement are teetering upon making Jewish traditions equal to what the historic Church calls Sacraments. The benefit they attach to them are quite similar. That is a major reason why it concerns me the distortions, and exaggerations being made concerning Catholicism and what religious practice is, and religious practice of Moses law. People cannot examine themselves in these things if these ideas are distorted.

A person walks in Passover until he can walk in Shavuot, and the goal is to walk in the feast of Tabernacles so that when the fire comes, you will be covered.

Believe it or Not, there are two comings of Jesus.


Hosea 6

Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.



Jesus came to us for the spring rain and he promises to return for the fall rain.

The spring rain is the season of Passover, and the fall rain is the season of Sukkot.

The way he came to us in the spring is the same way he comes to us for the fall, only it will be on a much grander scale.

But we have no need to fear because we know the comings and goings of our Lord and we watch for him on the days that he promises to visit us.


Jesus was all the sacrifices, Passover, Pentecost, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, but that is just sacrifices, and not promises.

Jesus was the sacrifice of Pentecost on Nissan 14 for Passover, but the promise and reward of Pentecost didn't come for 50 days, and that was said to pass away, thus a need for another pouring of rain.

And so we are instructed to pray for the rain for the Pentecost of the fall.


Obviously the marriage ceremony has not taken place, and Jerusalem has not been searched by candlelight, the grape harvest comes, and when it does come, the trampling of the grapes causes a wide river 4 feet deep which will flow 200 miles.





We are to warn everyone to watch the appointed visitation days, and instruct them how to prepare for the coming of the Lord, but how can this be done if things are p[[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] away, and how can the Simchat Torah cycle be taught if people don't want to learn it?


When Jesus stood in the Temple saying,'' It has fallen to me.''

He was following the Torah cycle invented by the Rabbis, and certain prayers are spoken on exact days and Jesus went to fulfill his part of that Torah cycle, besides this, there is no place for a gentile on Simchat Torah, and until the gentile realizes the truth of this, he has no hope of attending Simchat Torah.



Rosh Hashanah is swiftly coming and the bride who does not prepare will not enter into the chamber, so how does the bride prepare?

We are sternly warned to watch, and if we do not watch as instructed, Jesus will come to us like a thief breaking into a house and the waters of men will stand on end while the prepared watch.

If we do not watch the times and the seasons, we will be taken by surprise because Jesus tells us that if we do not watch, he will come to us like a thief in the night.

The book of Revelation is all about Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.



Have you warned your friends about these things Annier?


Do you know what is going to happen on Rosh Hashanah?


The book of Revelation details Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur being fulfilled as well as Sukkot.

We are shown 3 views of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur taking place in the seals, in the trumpets and in the bowls, and these 3 things are about us personally.



I will give you an example of Rosh Hashanah in Revelation.


Not only do we find Rosh Hashanah in the 7th trumpet, we also find them in the 7th seal, and the 7th bowl.

The Seventh Trumpet
15Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,…


FACT~ The Kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of our Lord on Rosh Hashanah.


Is this a fact?

How can we easily prove that the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of our Lord on Rosh Hashanah?

And if this is a fact{It is}, then what should we be doing when Rosh Hashanah comes each year?

The Torah cycle is very specific, and being that Jesus followed this Torah cycle and that the disciples followed the Torah cycle, it means that the prayers spoken on the Torah cycle have particular days that are appointed for the fulfillment of prophecy on the day and correct year they are spoken.


Jesus quoted Isaiah saying,'' It has fallen to me, AND In your hearing this is fulfilled



The more people we instruct to watch, the more we save.


They don't have to watch, and in truth, they can speak against the laws of Moses and STILL go to heaven, albeit ''The least in the kingdom.''


But why should so many people miss out?


How hard is it to just watch and pray when we are instructed to watch?

It's not like we have to get on a plane and fly to Jerusalem, now we can just watch and have expectant hope in the promise that those WHO DO WATCH, will not be taken as if Jesus has come and split your waters in two because you did not know the visitation days of your Lord.


You don't watch what you are doing on Rosh Hashanah, you are a bride and you don't know the days of the comings and goings of your husband??


Hannibal can guarantee you that if it is this year, your waters will be split in two as a man who is cut in half dividing soul and spirit.


But how hard is it to watch and say the prayers that are to be said?

How hard is it?


Moses came and warned them saying,'' The Lord will come to you on the third day, see that you do not sleep with your wives, and when the Lord came, it terrified the people, even his voice could be seen, and the entire world heard it.

The people said, '' Do not let the Lord speak to us again.''


So the Lord felt sorry for them, and when he chose to speak to them again, he chose to speak through the disciples who were counting the omer right up unto the promise.

To those who followed God, and who believed in Jesus, and who were doing what they were instructed to do, To them he came and warned THEM.


Hannibal can guarantee you that God is yet again coming, and the promise will yet again be realized, and the warning will yet again be given to those who follow instruction.


But Somebody has come and taken away the knowledge of the times and seasons, he has deceived the many so that they will not know the days of their visitation.




At what point do we begin teaching people of the second coming of Christ?

At what point are we to teach people what they are instructed to do so that they will receive the warning and not be taken as if Jesus comes to break in your house?



It would be a great kindness to warn people of the impending day of the coming of the Lord and to instruct people not to be caught by surprise.


A person who warns and instructs people to return to Jesus in these things will cover the multitude of sins having saved that person from certain destruction.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Jesus is here and He provided the atonement (the covering) once for all who would receive Him (John 1:12; Acts 2:38; Ephesians 1:13)...He is now sitting at the right hand of the Father...no getting up and down repeating the sacrifice...He IS the tabernacle of God (not made with hands) and the tabernacling of God with men...He came and dwelt (skeenoo - pitched tent) among us (God with us) and we are no longer part of the order of the first Adam (therefore not counted as his offspring) but are now the sons of God (beni-Elohim)...we are "covered" by His blood (God's asham)

So, there is no marriage feast we are instructed to watch for?

So there is no day of consummation when the true brides{The few} enter into the wedding chamber while the majority of brides are not allowed in?

So there is no firstfruits for men when they will follow Jesus into a New kingdom?

So, everywhere we are instructed to pray for the rain of Sukkot is a lie?

There are two comings, not one.

There are two rains, not one.

Have you the promise already?


Only the sacrifices were fulfilled, not the promises.

The promise of Shavuot came 50 days after the sacrifice of Shavuot, WHY?
 
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annier

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So, there is no marriage feast we are instructed to watch for?

So there is no day of consummation when the true brides{The few} enter into the wedding chamber while the majority of brides are not allowed in?

So there is no firstfruits for men when they will follow Jesus into a New kingdom?

So, everywhere we are instructed to pray for the rain of Sukkot is a lie?

There are two comings, not one.

There are two rains, not one.

Have you the promise already?


Only the sacrifices were fulfilled, not the promises.
This sacrifice is a promise to our father Abraham.
Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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If you don't think this is coming, let me assure you that it is. Moses went up into the mountain 3 times, and 3 times came down.

At Mount Sinai

1On the first day of the third month after the Israelites left Egypt—on that very day—they came to the Desert of Sinai. 2After they set out from Rephidim, they entered the Desert of Sinai, and Israel camped there in the desert in front of the mountain.

3Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6youa will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

7So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.

9The Lord said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.” Then Moses told the Lord what the people had said.

10And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes 11and be ready by the third day, because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. 13They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”

14After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes. 15Then he said to the people, “Prepare yourselves for the third day. Abstain from sexual relations.”

16On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountainb trembled violently. 19As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.c

20The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”

23Moses said to the Lord, “The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, ‘Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.’ ”

24The Lord replied, “Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the Lord, or he will break out against them.”

25So Moses went down to the people and told them.



What if I told you that God is coming to you this year on Rosh Hashanah, and I proved it to you without a doubt, and you believed me? The king is in the field and he is coming, but what if you really believed what has been prophesied to happen? {One year}

If you know the appointed visitation days of Jesus as we are instructed, and warned to watch for, what would you be doing if you were for sure that the trumpet is about to blow and God really does visit you? Will you just go on as if nothing is about to happen, or would you humble yourself in fear of the coming of God? What will he find you doing after he has instructed you to watch and you don't? Is God going to come to you on Rosh Hashanah this year? We don't know, but what if it IS this year, it is going to be some year, what if it is this year? What is he going to find you doing? What has he instructed you to be doing on this day?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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This sacrifice is a promise to our father Abraham.
Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.


So?


I mean, does that mean there is no marriage feast and we are just told of a marriage banquet to confuse us?

Are we all deceived into believing that Jesus is coming again?

Jesus came for the spring rains and those rains fell, but he goes back to his place and then returns again, and we don't have to wonder what will happen, we know the times and season of our Lord, and we know the promises he gives to us.

He promises to come to the prepared brides, he comes bringing his promise to those who watch for him on his visitation days.

Why would you think that Rosh Hashanah has already happened?

Why would you think that Yom Kippur has already happened?

Why would you think Sukkot has already happened?

Why would you think Simchat Torah has already happened?

They have not been fulfilled, the fall rain has not fallen, you have not come up to the wedding banquet, you have not entered the wedding chamber.



You say you are a bride, and to that fact, I have no doubt.


But are you the wise or the foolish.

You have a lamp burning, yes.

But do you have an extra vessel of oil that you yourself have filled?

Nope, you don't.


Should we not prepare the brides for the coming of her husband?

Or should we just keep it to ourselves and let the those who are dying die?


Why would you think that you have obtained the promises of these days when you clearly have not?

Why do we not instruct people so that they can obtain what is promised on what day they are promised to receive?
 
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Shimshon

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Why would you think that you have obtained the promises of these days when you clearly have not?

Why do we not instruct people so that they can obtain what is promised on what day they are promised to receive?
In regards to the promise, there are many. Two come to mind, the promise of resurrection from the dead, and the promise of the Spirit upon our hearts. One is future, the other has come to pass. And even the future one is patterned and displayed through our death with Messiah on his cross. We are dead to this world yet alive in him.

I like what the apostles say about receiving the promise;

Acts 1 said:
3 After his death he showed himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. During a period of forty days they saw him, and he spoke with them about the Kingdom of God. 4 At one of these gatherings, he instructed them not to leave Yerushalayim but to wait for "what the Father promised, which you heard about from me. 5 For Yochanan used to immerse people in water; but in a few days, you will be immersed in the Ruach HaKodesh!"

Acts 26 said:
6 How ironic it is that I stand on trial here because of my hope in the promise made to our fathers!

7 It is the fulfillment of this very promise that our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they resolutely carry on their acts of worship night and day; yet it is in connection with this hope, your Majesty, that I am being accused by Jews! 8 Why do you people consider it incredible that God raises the dead?

Romans 4 said:
13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.

16 The reason the promise is based on trusting is so that it may come as God's free gift, a promise that can be relied on by all the seed, not only those who live within the framework of the Torah, but also those with the kind of trust Avraham had - Avraham avinu for all of us.

Galatians 3 said:
13 The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, "Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse."

14 Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the Spirit.

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Hewbrews 3 said:
As it is said, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."

Hebrews 4 said:
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands

Hebrews 9 said:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 10 said:
35 Therefore don't throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need patience, so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise. 37 "For yet a very little while, He who comes will come, and will not wait. 38 But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.

Thanks for the refresher study. I focused on the promises of Abraham back in June.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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In regards to the promise, there are many. Two come to mind, the promise of resurrection from the dead, and the promise of the Spirit upon our hearts. One is future, the other has come to pass. And even the future one is patterned and displayed through our death with Messiah on his cross. We are dead to this world yet alive in him.

I like what the apostles say about receiving the promise;

















Thanks for the refresher study. I focused on the promises of Abraham back in June.


The promise of the spirit came and made sons of Isaac.


But there are two comings of the spirit and for good reason because the first has passed, and if you say that you know one single person who works in the spirit that was given on Pentecost, I would love to meet that person, because the spirit was not carried through another religion after the first Christians were killed off for following the feasts of Jesus.

There is no person out there raising the dead and healing the blind, nobody can expect a miracle when they pray and they prove it to themselves ALL THE TIME, and thus is the promise of the giving of the second rain upon the Earth.

Because the brotherhood was broken, BECAUSE the gentiles who were appointed in a priesthood rejected the very priesthood they were appointed to.





And today because the covenant has been rejected, we have Christians acting as if Jesus is not coming again, and to say that the fall festivals have been fulfilled, is to say that Jesus is not coming for the wedding ceremony, for the consummation of the wedding and so on through the fall Holy days that MUST be fulfilled.


Instead of warning people about what is expected of the bride, the information is taken away so the bride may not know her husband.


Instead of teaching people the different levels of heaven, Christianity just lumps everyone in together if there was no race to run, no prize to be had, and no reward that was promised.


What is the difference between people?

We have people who are actually brave enough to speak against the keeping of the laws when they themselves do not keep it.

Jesus says that these people will be the least in the kingdom, and yet, they are in the kingdom.

Just as we see Jesus tell us about the people who say,'' Jesus Jesus, we taught your name in the streets and we did miracles in your name!''

But what does Jesus tell the lawless?

'' Depart from me, you workers on iniquity, I never knew you.''


Again, the works of all men will be tested, and if any one's work suffers a loss, he himself will be saved, but only as one who goes through a fire.''


We also see the sealing of those people who are considered true Israel in Revelation 11, and it is the counting of people in the Holy place, and the Holy of holies, but those lawless gentiles standing in the outer court of God are not counted because they were still gentiles.


We run a race in trying to obtain a better resurrection and we teach people that there is no race, no prize, but we can see the reward and prize in Revelation 14 when the virgins give birth on the feast of firstfruits.

But why don't people know about the virgins giving birth?

Because the knowledge is shunned, and I feel sorry for those people who take away the knowledge of Christ.




You think Rosh Hashanah has come and gone?

You think you have already stood on Sukkot?




The coming of Jesus are two comings, two outpouring of rains as Joel says, as Zechariah shows, as Isaiah shouts, and as Revelation shows.


Anyone should clearly see Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur taking place in Revelation, but ya know why they don't?

Anyone should acknowledge that Jesus has yet to fulfill the Sukkot, because you clearly do not have the promise of Sukkot, now have you obtained the promise of any of the fall Holy days, especially not Simchat Torah.


What is your promise of Simchat Torah, what do you hope in?

What is your promise in Rosh Hashanah, and what do you hope in?

If you don't know that Rosh Hashanah is coming, you better look at that thang again.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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In one breath a Christian will quote the scripture of the New Covenant for Judah and Israel and even make the claim that they are a part of this covenant, and with their other breath, they teach people not to do the things required of Judah and Israel.

To know Jesus is to know the comings and goings of the Temple people claim to be, and to know the comings and goings of the Temple is to know the husband's comings and goings.

Why teach against it?


That is the job of Antichrist, to teach against the feast days of Christ so that people will not watch, and not do what is expected of the bride.

So much talk of the bride of Christ all the while hiding the knowledge of the wedding banquet and ceremony.

So much talk of the bride, and the bride refuses to know her husband or to warn others about his comings and goings.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Jesus was the Passover lamb, and he teaches us to walk in Passover, his blood will cover us when the day comes and this is a wonderful thing.

Jesus was the Rams of Pentecost, and he teaches how to walk in Pentecost, and the promise received was a wonderful thing.

Jesus was the unleavened bread.

Jesus was the first of first fruits, but we are waiting to become the firstfruits as is shown in Revelation 14 and to receive that promise for that feast days.

Why is Jesus the Simchat Torah, and what is the promise of Simchat Torah that we hope in?

Anybody?

Anybody?

Beuler?

Beuler?


Shimshon, Annier, tell us how Jesus fulfilled Shemini Atzereth, Simchat Torah, and tell us the promise we hope for in Simchat Torah.

I'm sure you guys know the promises don't you?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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This sacrifice is a promise to our father Abraham.
Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

This bringing up of Abraham is a wonder to me, I don't know what is meant by this.

I can see Arab's bringing it up, but is that what you want?

Jesus came fulfilling a promise made to the gentiles of Israel. This promise in Hosea and other places says the same thing, that God would redeem gentiles into Israel by a marriage of redemption as a Jew would marry a Gentile or as Boaz married and redeemed a gentile into the seed.

You bring up Abraham when the marriage is a marriage to a Jew.

You bring up Abraham when the covenants are only for Judah and Israel, and where are you in this covenant because there are only two names to associate yourself with.

Why go back to Abraham, when the marriage is between a Jew and gentile, and when the gentile is redeemed by marrying a Jew, he comes up a lot further than Abraham, or is it that people only want to be as gentiles, as if to say that you married a Jew and did not want to become as a Jew.
 
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Shimshon

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Jesus was the Passover lamb, and he teaches us to walk in Passover, his blood will cover us when the day comes and this is a wonderful thing.

Jesus was the Rams of Pentecost, and he teaches how to walk in Pentecost, and the promise received was a wonderful thing.

Jesus was the unleavened bread.

Jesus was the first of first fruits, but we are waiting to become the firstfruits as is shown in Revelation 14 and to receive that promise for that feast days.

Why is Jesus the Simchat Torah, and what is the promise of Simchat Torah that we hope in?

Anybody?

Anybody?

Beuler?

Beuler?


Shimshon, Annier, tell us how Jesus fulfilled Shemini Atzereth, Simchat Torah, and tell us the promise we hope for in Simchat Torah.

I'm sure you guys know the promises don't you?
Well since you hollered.

2 Cor 10
19 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...=2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-8the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we proclaimed among you, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...=2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-9Silvanus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No, but http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-10in him it is always Yes.

20 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-11all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-12Amen to God for his glory. 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-13has anointed us, 22 and who has also http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-14put his seal on us and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-15given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.



Romans 8
22 For we are conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together till now. 23 And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies. 24 For our salvation is by hope: but hope which is seen is not hope: for who is hoping for what he sees? 25 But if we have hope for that which we see not, then we will be able to go on waiting for it.

26 And in the same way the Spirit is a help to our feeble hearts: for we are not able to make prayer to God in the right way; but the Spirit puts our desires into words which are not in our power to say; 27 And he who is the searcher of hearts has knowledge of the mind of the Spirit, because he is making prayers for the saints in agreement with the mind of God.

28 And we are conscious that all things are working together for good to those who have love for God, and have been marked out by his purpose.

Notice the present tense of the promised first fruits of the Spirit within our hearts?

Notice how all the promises have there 'yes' IN Messiah? He is our shabbat rest, in him we rest from all our works and rest upon the work he accomplished once and for all.

When he returns he will not deal with sin, but judgment. Because for over 2000 yrs we were supposed to be finding our rest in him, as promised, and those who still seek their own works will be destroyed.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Well since you hollered.

2 Cor 10
19 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...=2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-8the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we proclaimed among you, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...=2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-9Silvanus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No, but http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-10in him it is always Yes.

20 For http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-11all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-12Amen to God for his glory. 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-13has anointed us, 22 and who has also http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-14put his seal on us and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/...2-corinthians+1:15-24#cr-descriptionAnchor-15given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.



Romans 8
22 For we are conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together till now. 23 And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies. 24 For our salvation is by hope: but hope which is seen is not hope: for who is hoping for what he sees? 25 But if we have hope for that which we see not, then we will be able to go on waiting for it.

26 And in the same way the Spirit is a help to our feeble hearts: for we are not able to make prayer to God in the right way; but the Spirit puts our desires into words which are not in our power to say; 27 And he who is the searcher of hearts has knowledge of the mind of the Spirit, because he is making prayers for the saints in agreement with the mind of God.

28 And we are conscious that all things are working together for good to those who have love for God, and have been marked out by his purpose.

Notice the present tense of the promised first fruits of the Spirit within our hearts?

Notice how all the promises have there 'yes' IN Messiah? He is our shabbat rest, in him we rest from all our works and rest upon the work he accomplished once and for all.

When he returns he will not deal with sin, but judgment. Because for over 2000 yrs we were supposed to be finding our rest in him, as promised, and those who still seek their own works will be destroyed.

Fruit of what spirit Shimshon?

There is the barley harvest and the wheat harvest and the fruit harvest, a harvest of oil, and of wine and of promises.


Now I am fully aware that you can present a good sermon{maybe} how the priests were symbolic for Passover lambs, and it was not a new thing that Jesus came saying,'' Eat of my flesh.'' Great and terrifying things happened on Passover Shimshon, and they show great and wonderful promises that Jesus will be our Passover lamb when the day comes.

I would say that you could teach about the afikomen but I don't even know if you believe such things, and when you teach of the bread being blessed and the blessings of the wine, you couldn't do so without going to oral Torah to even understand what is being related.

But I am sure you could give a good sermon about the ground shaking events that Happened on Passover, and then what happened on Pentecost{50 days later, proving that sacrifice is sacrifice and promises are promises}

I think you may even give a good sermon on how Jesus was the unleavened bread buried, and even the firstfruits, but would you then tell people that firstfruits is over and not something to hope in?


So you begin, and you tell your great sermons for Passover and for Unleavened bread, and for firstfruits, and for Pentecost, all great and wonderful appointed days of Christ bringing promises.

GROUND SHAKING LIFE CHANGING PROMISES AND EVENTS.



But then you should tell us what is going to take place on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, the great Hosannah, But do tell us the great promise of Shemini Atzereth and what we hope in for this coming wonderful event.


It is seriously going to be so sad to see so many gentiles turned away because they rejected the day.


But make a sermon on how Jesus fulfilled this day and tell us of the great events and how our lives have been changed.

I don't think you can, because the second coming of Christ comes to do these things.

But exactly what are they?


Who would refuse to prepare themselves for a wedding on the day of the wedding?


To those who listen, I am telling you that Jesus is coming to surprise many people on Rosh Hashanah, and the foolish virgins begin to weep, howl and cry on this day.

You are told and instructed to know this day, and be in anticipation of it's promise because if you are not prepared for Rosh Hashanah when it comes, WOE is you, and WOE is Jerusalem.


Don't let anyone try and tell you that you don't have to make yourself ready.
 
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