Man made on 3rd Day

[ChristianT]

Aman:>>If you would like to know more about How and when we became Human, just let me know. It's the Truth of Science, History, and Scripture.

T:>>What are your beliefs about the One, Holy Orthodox, Apostolic Catholic Church?

Dear T, I think it's a puffed up, everything for show, denomination, like most others. Picture Christianity as a Big Pie. The Romans have slices therein. Jesus said:

Mark 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

In Love,
Aman

Thank you

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Jesus said:

Mark 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

T:>>Thank you

Dear T, You're welcome. God bless you and yours.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Assyrian]

Assyrian:>>How does it take you back to the third day, when that only describes creating the earth, not the heavens and the earth.

It takes you back to the OUTLINE of the Creation which is contained in Genesis 1. ALL of the Bible points back to these Days since God only has 7 Days. There are other good examples of this. Genesis 5:1-2 confirms the details of the Day Adam and Eve were born Spiritually. The words used are saying the SAME thing we read in the Outline of the Creation, and showing us it was on the 6th Day. Genesis 1:27

If it takes you back to the outline of the Creation in Genesis 1, then Gen 2:4 in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, refers to the whole of Genesis 1, all six days spent creating the heavens and the earth, instead of just day 3 when God worked on the earth not heaven. You say God has only 7 days, but since these are not literal 24 hour day, but refer to long ages, there is no reason Genesis cannot refer to the whole period of creation as a 'day'.

Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemane, speaks of the FIRST Day, confirming that He is the Light of the first Day.
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

The only Day "before the world was" was the 1st Day. Jesus is the Light of the first Day and will also be the Light of the 3rd Heaven. Revelation 21:23 KJV - And the city had no need of the sun, - Bible Gateway

There is no reference to the 'first day' in Gethsemane, and 'before the world was' can refer to all of eternity past. You don't think Christ was created on day 1 do you?

Assyrian:>>It is part of a different creation story I wouldn't even try to link them together. If I had to, I would point you back to Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Sorry, but you can't point me BACK since the events of Genesis 2:1 since they are PROPHECY of future events. Here is my understanding of Genesis 2:1

Whether you think Gen 2:1 is a prophecy or not, it is still three verses behind Gen 2:4; it still refers to the whole of Genesis 1 as God making the heavens and the earth.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Finished is the Hebrew word for Brought to Perfecion which is the result of any act which God completes. If it's not Perfect, then God is still working. He will NOT rest until His Creation is made perfect AND all the host of the heavens and earth are also Brought to Pefection. He wouldn't be God if He did.

God, the Holy Spirit and the Church continue to work today, showing that God has NOT yet rested. God's rest is Future.

Where do you get the idea finish means 'brought to perfection'? It is not in the AV and it is not in Strong's? Finish has a range of meanings from accomplish to exterminate.

Sure it does, since it's a FUTURE event. You are confused, as is the traditional religous view, for Today remains the 6th Creative Day. Genesis 2:1 will NOT take place for at least another thousand years.

Whether we are still in the sixth day or not, Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, refers back the all the work of the six days.

What watery Chaos? Again, you are following the views of ancient men. Genesis 1:2 tells us:

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There are waters and the earth is without form, watery chaos.

The ground had not shape, and it was empty, and darkness or death was upon the face of the deep. The ingredients to build a perfect Heaven are contaminated with death, and it moved the Spirit of God to speak, Let there be Light, and Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God, to defeat the darkness and death which made it impossible for God to have a perfect physical heaven filled with His perfect children. Isn't that the way you see it?

Death in Genesis 1:2? Where do you get that from, and why would you think that is how I see it?

Assyrian:>>The rest of the 6 days in Genesis are spent creating and filling either the earth, the seas, of the heavens. On no day other than day one did God create the heavens and the earth.

Sure there is and I have shown it to you several times. It's the 3rd Day when Jesus makes the first Earth and the other HeavenS Plural. Genesis 2:4

But you can't point out God creating the Heavens on day three in Genesis 1. You are just adding that in yourself. If you think Genesis 2:4 is pointing us back to a particular day in Genesis 1; telling us which day in Genesis 1 it is referring to; don't you think it would describe what we actually read in Genesis 1? The description fits Gen 1:1 and it fits all of Genesis 1, but it doesn't fit day three.

Assyrian:>>That leaves one other possibility, that day refer to an extended period as you believe for the days of Genesis 1, but it was a much longer period covering all six day of creation described in Genesis 1.

Each of God's Days are some 4.5 Billion years in length. God's Days are best understood as Ages and today is the 6th Creative Day. That is the message of God's 7 Day Creation. We live today at Genesis 1:27 for God is STILL creating sinners in Christ. We will remain on the present 6th Creative Day, until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet, gives us dominion over EVERY other living creature, and changes EVERY creature into a Vegetarian, and then says, It is very good. Genesis 1:31

You are simply restating you beliefs there, you are not addressing my point.

 

[Assyrian]

Assyrian:>>Sorry it doesn't say that. It doesn't say the heavens made on day two are the first heavens. Remember Gen 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Nor does it say the numbering system for Paul's 'third heaven' is based on the order of their creation.

Dear Assyrian, I'm sorry you don't realize that Scripture is showing what happens when He creates anything physical apart from Himself. It contains darkness or death. This of course, brings the reason for God to say, Let there be Light, and for Jesus to come forth into the physical world. Try to make sense of what Scripture is teaching from YOUR view.

By changing the subject, are you giving up trying to justify your numbering system for the heavens?

I see with Genesis 1:3 you aren't reading 'light' literally. No problem with that, other than your claim not literally means "I get to make up my own reasons to explain this". Do you believe all light is Jesus, or did God created electromagnetic light too? And if God created real actual light, how does it contain death or darkness?

I do agree this universe was created subject to natural decay (1Cor 15) but your overstating the issue is verging on the Gnostic.

The firmament did show or does show the handiwork of Jesus as David wrote. That doesn't change the fact that Isaiah tells us it was clean dissolved in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19

You have already tried that verse. It is a prophecy about the future, Isaiah 23:15 In that day Tyre will be forgotten... 21 On that day the LORD will punish the host of heaven, in heaven, and the kings of the earth, on the earth... It says the earth (or land) is clean dissolved, not the firmament. I have pointed this out to you twice before and you haven't been able to show it refer to the firmament being destroyed in the flood.

Correction: YOU can't see the fact that Genesis 2:4 tells us God made other heavens on the 3rd Day, in addition to the first heaven He made on the 2nd Day. You continue to ignore this Scriptural fact.

It isn't a scriptural fact if it isn't in the text. All we have is you imagination. You imagine Gen 2:4 refers to day 3 in Genesis 1, though the text doesn't say it refers to day three and the description of the day God created the heavens and the earth doesn't fit the description of day three, which tells us God made the earth but not the heavens. You only imagine God created the heavens on day thee, the text doesn't say that. I can see the text, what I cannot see is what's entirely in your imagination.

Assyrian:>Any evidence linking Paul's third heaven with the new heaven and new earth in Revelation, or that it is the new heaven and new earth as opposed to just the new heaven. Any evidence the third heaven was made the same time our world was made?

Genesis 2:4 says other "heavens" were made on the 3rd Day.

It doesn't, but even if it did it still wouldn't help you. Without a numbering system, or the basis by which days were numbered, you can't link Paul's third heaven with the new heaven in Revelation or any particular heaven mentioned in Genesis.

It makes sense to me since creating a world with many Universes is what Physics is trying to confirm today. God tells us we live in a Multiverse. Why not make a world which produces many, many, Singularities, in order to make many, many, other worlds?

Whether it makes sense to you or not, it doesn't support you numbering system for the heavens. You need to support that from scripture.

Assyrian:>>Don't you see the vast amount of stuff you simply make up?

Only to those who are stuck in their religion instead of what Scripture actually says.

Since it isn't what scripture says, and you haven't been able to show any of the things I asked you from scripture, it looks like you are stuck in your own religion, and can't tell the difference between scripture and all the things you make up to fit your religion.

Assyrian:>>Ok, but I don't see how it help you claims about the numbers for each heaven.

I only speak of 3 heavens since that is the minimum number made by the 3rd Day. I don't want to exaggerate.

Maybe you misunderstand me, I'm not asking you about the total number of heavens, but the numbers, first, second, third, you attach to the different heavens mentioned in scripture.

Assyrian:>>Ok I get what you mean by 'to come', but why do you call worlds heavens?

God called the boundary or firmament of the first world "heaven". That's why I use the word.

The firmament separated the waters of the world from the waters above the firmament, that doesn't make the firmament part of the world.

I use the words as the same since the firmament was the boundary of the first heaven. That makes me believe there is a boundary to our world. The other reason is that Jesus is Brighter than the Noonday Sun, and yet we don't see Him, indicating there is a boundary between our differing heavens.

The universe doesn't need a boundary to be separate from other universes in other dimensions or from the spiritual realm.

No, but Strong's is a man made translation which is subject to error. I understand the small contradiction you see, but if that's the best you can do, my view stands. Thanks for your reply.

So you just pick up bit and pieces from the AV when it suits you, glean bits from Strong's when it suits you too, and if neither the AV nor Strong's have what you want you just make it up yourself? Look like the 'best I can do' is show you haven't any scriptural basis for any of the wild claims you have been making.

Dear Assyrian, It's because the context of the two verses BEFORE the first Day, shows that God the Spirit brought into the physical world, air, dust, and water and they were dead in the darkness, until Jesus came into the physical world to bring Light and Life to the dead elements. I don't think you can have an Earth, which is withouf form, unless you have a pile of dirt. Jesus is the Potter who will mold the Clay.

It isn't the form of the earth that is the issue here, but that Genesis 1:1 calls it the earth and call the heavens God created heavens.

Then show us something which is physical without these elements.

Quarks, protons, electrons, neutrons, Hydrogen, Helium, stars...

I'm not making up anything. Genesis 2:4 is adding information to Genesis 1 as I have told you over and over. The entire Bible does this.

Some parts of the bible add information to others, some describe the same things in different ways without adding inforrmation to a different description. Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. It is certainly describing the same event we read of earlier in Exodus but it isn't adding more information to the account of the exodus.

Even if you were right and Gen 2:4 is adding more information to Gen 1, you need to show where in Gen 1 it is adding this information. You claim it is day three, but I have shown you day three doesn't fit.

Assyrain:>>Dear Readers. What Aman forgets here is that God loves figurative language. Jesus himself spoke to us in metaphors parables and symbols. I don't think he was an ancient goat herder, he did say he was the Good Shepherd, but that was speaking figuratively.

Is it a problem if the literal reading of two metaphors contradict each other? One parable describes the last judgement as fishermen sorting fish from a net. Another parable say it is separating wheat from tares. Which is it, a fishing net or a wheat harvest? Jesus said he was the Good Shepherd, John said he was the lamb of God, which is right, is Jesus a shepherd or a sheep? It isn't that they contradict each other, the seeming contradiction comes from reading them the wrong way.

...

No reply?

Assyrian:>>When did Jesus say Adam was made on the 3rd day?

The first man, we later come to know as Adam, was made the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants grew, according to Genesis 2:4-7.

That is what you say Aman, I asked where Jesus said Adam was made on the 3rd day.

Those who have not been born Spiritually see this a Foolishness. Christians, what do you think?
In Love,
Aman

Good question. How many people reading this thread, who have been born spiritually, consider Aman's ideas 'foolishness', or if you think that is too strong, mistaken.

 

[Aman777]

Originally Posted by Aman777

Assyrian:>>Sorry it doesn't say that. It doesn't say the heavens made on day two are the first heavens. Remember Gen 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Nor does it say the numbering system for Paul's 'third heaven' is based on the order of their creation.
​

Aman:>>Dear Assyrian, I'm sorry you don't realize that Scripture is showing what happens when He creates anything physical apart from Himself. It contains darkness or death. This of course, brings the reason for God to say, Let there be Light, and for Jesus to come forth into the physical world. Try to make sense of what Scripture is teaching from YOUR view.
​

Assyrian:>>By changing the subject, are you giving up trying to justify your numbering system for the heavens?

Dear Assyrian, I have Never had a "numbering system" for the heavens. That's YOUR silly idea. Scripture shows that the first heaven was made the 2nd Day (Gen. 1:6-8) and the other heavenS were made the 3rd, (Gen. 2:4) in agreement with other Scripture which shows that God made at least 3 heavens by the 3rd Day. ll Corinthians 12:2

Assyrian:>>I see with Genesis 1:3 you aren't reading 'light' literally. No problem with that, other than your claim not literally means "I get to make up my own reasons to explain this". Do you believe all light is Jesus, or did God created electromagnetic light too? And if God created real actual light, how does it contain death or darkness?

Jesus is the Light. In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His Crucifixion, Jesus is praying to the Father: John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

Jesus was present in His Shekinah Glory or Brightness on the 1st Day, the ONLY Day before the world was. Jesus is God incarnate. His Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun. Acts 22:6 KJV - And it came to pass, that, as I made my - Bible Gateway In Heaven, Jesus IS literally the Light of the 3rd Heaven, just as He was for the first 3 Days of Creation.

Assyrian:>>I do agree this universe was created subject to natural decay (1Cor 15) but your overstating the issue is verging on the Gnostic.

Since I have no idea what the Gnostic view on this is, I cannot reply. I do know that entropy shows the same thing. It's another agreement with Science.

Aman:>>The firmament did show or does show the handiwork of Jesus as David wrote. That doesn't change the fact that Isaiah tells us it was clean dissolved in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19

Assyrian:>>You have already tried that verse. It is a prophecy about the future, Isaiah 23:15 In that day Tyre will be forgotten... 21 On that day the LORD will punish the host of heaven, in heaven, and the kings of the earth, on the earth... It says the earth (or land) is clean dissolved, not the firmament. I have pointed this out to you twice before and you haven't been able to show it refer to the firmament being destroyed in the flood.

I'm sorry for your misunderstanding of this verse. I will try to clear this up: It helps IF you cite the actual verses we are speaking of instead of the Chapter BEFORE these events:

Isaiah 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

The above Scriptures are telling us of the "SNARE", or Trap laid by God to catch men. You seem to be unaware. I thought I had explained the Snare to you before. It's the Trap which God is using to show the foolishness of men's views. Scientists have falsely assumed that our Earth is the only Earth. The SNARE catches these people in their false thinking. They are not aware that Humans came from the first Earth, so their assumptions are FALSE. This includes their beloved view of the Theory of Evolution. The SNARE is the Flood.

Aman:>>Correction: YOU can't see the fact that Genesis 2:4 tells us God made other heavens on the 3rd Day, in addition to the first heaven He made on the 2nd Day. You continue to ignore this Scriptural fact.
​

Assyrian>>It isn't a scriptural fact if it isn't in the text. All we have is you imagination. You imagine Gen 2:4 refers to day 3 in Genesis 1, though the text doesn't say it refers to day three and the description of the day God created the heavens and the earth doesn't fit the description of day three, which tells us God made the earth but not the heavens. You only imagine God created the heavens on day thee, the text doesn't say that. I can see the text, what I cannot see is what's entirely in your imagination.

Here is the verse with my comments:

Gen. 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The Lord made the Earth on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10
This verse is "adding" information to the events of the 3rd Day, and telling us God also made heavens (plural) on the 3rd Day. The first Heaven was made the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:

To confirm that this verse is speaking of the 3rd Day, it was BEFORE the plants grew. The plants GREW on the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:12. Tell a 4th grader that man was made on the 3rd Day, the same Day the Earth was made, but Before the plants grew on the 3rd Day. Then ask them which Day man was made. The verses don't say 3rd Day, but assume that someone can actually read and comprehend.

Assyrian:>Any evidence linking Paul's third heaven with the new heaven and new earth in Revelation, or that it is the new heaven and new earth as opposed to just the new heaven. Any evidence the third heaven was made the same time our world was made?
​

Genesis 2:4 says other "heavens" were made on the 3rd Day.
​

Assyrian:>>It doesn't, but even if it did it still wouldn't help you. Without a numbering system, or the basis by which days were numbered, you can't link Paul's third heaven with the new heaven in Revelation or any particular heaven mentioned in Genesis.

Sure I can. Genesis 2:4 says other heavens were made the 3rd Day. The first heaven was made the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8 That makes at least 3 heavens were made by the 3rd Day. It also means that God made a Multiverse instead of a Universe.

Aman:>>It makes sense to me since creating a world with many Universes is what Physics is trying to confirm today. God tells us we live in a Multiverse. Why not make a world which produces many, many, Singularities, in order to make many, many, other worlds?

Assyrian:>>Whether it makes sense to you or not, it doesn't support you numbering system for the heavens. You need to support that from scripture.

I have NO numbering system for the heavens. That is YOUR false notion.

Assyrian:>>Don't you see the vast amount of stuff you simply make up?
​

Aman:>>Only to those who are stuck in their religion instead of what Scripture actually says.
​

Assyrian:>>Since it isn't what scripture says, and you haven't been able to show any of the things I asked you from scripture, it looks like you are stuck in your own religion, and can't tell the difference between scripture and all the things you make up to fit your religion.

False accusation. Go back and see which one of us is using Scripture to support their views and which one of us is having a terrible time understanding the most simple of things. ie. the 3rd Day I have NO problem supporting my views Scripturally, but I also notice that you don't seem to believe Scripture. Is it because you have dismissed God's Holy Word as nothing but allegory?

Assyrian:>>Ok, but I don't see how it help you claims about the numbers for each heaven.
​

Aman:>>I only speak of 3 heavens since that is the minimum number made by the 3rd Day. I don't want to exaggerate.
​

Assyrian:>>Maybe you misunderstand me, I'm not asking you about the total number of heavens, but the numbers, first, second, third, you attach to the different heavens mentioned in scripture.

How do you understand them? It's simple for me. Heaven 1 is where Adam lived. Heaven 2 is our Universe. Heaven 3 is the world to come after our world is burned.

Assyrian:>>Ok I get what you mean by 'to come', but why do you call worlds heavens?
​

Aman:>>God called the boundary or firmament of the first world "heaven". That's why I use the word.
​

Assyrian:>>The firmament separated the waters of the world from the waters above the firmament, that doesn't make the firmament part of the world.

Picture the firmament as an Acrylic Globe. It is the boundary of the 1st heaven but is empty. God calls it heaven because it is filled with air. Peter tells us it was in the water and out of the water. It's a floating Acrylic Globe. Fill it with land and water and put a sliding top on it, and you have the first Heaven, which contains the Earth of Adam.

Continued******
​

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>I use the words as the same since the firmament was the boundary of the first heaven. That makes me believe there is a boundary to our world. The other reason is that Jesus is Brighter than the Noonday Sun, and yet we don't see Him, indicating there is a boundary between our differing heavens.
​

Assyrian:>>The universe doesn't need a boundary to be separate from other universes in other dimensions or from the spiritual realm.

Then WHY don't we see Jesus? We will when He comes back. Every eye will see Him.
Revelation 1 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Aman:>>No, but Strong's is a man made translation which is subject to error. I understand the small contradiction you see, but if that's the best you can do, my view stands. Thanks for your reply.
​

Assyrian:>>So you just pick up bit and pieces from the AV when it suits you, glean bits from Strong's when it suits you too, and if neither the AV nor Strong's have what you want you just make it up yourself? Look like the 'best I can do' is show you haven't any scriptural basis for any of the wild claims you have been making.

Thanks for the opinion of an obvious TE, who doesn't believe Scripture unless it's metaphorical. I'm sorry that you are not a Bible believing Christian.


Originally Posted by Aman777

Dear Assyrian, It's because the context of the two verses BEFORE the first Day, shows that God the Spirit brought into the physical world, air, dust, and water and they were dead in the darkness, until Jesus came into the physical world to bring Light and Life to the dead elements. I don't think you can have an Earth, which is withouf form, unless you have a pile of dirt. Jesus is the Potter who will mold the Clay.
​

Assyrian:>>It isn't the form of the earth that is the issue here, but that Genesis 1:1 calls it the earth and call the heavens God created heavens.

Dear Assyrian, Show us an earth without form. It's the igredients for an earth.

Aman:>>Then show us something which is physical without these elements.
​

Assyrian:>>Quarks, protons, electrons, neutrons, Hydrogen, Helium, stars...

You are speaking of matter of the present Universe, which was made in the interior remnants of the earliest Stars. The present 2nd Heaven wasn't made for Billions of years AFTER the first Day.

Aman:>>I'm not making up anything. Genesis 2:4 is adding information to Genesis 1 as I have told you over and over. The entire Bible does this.
​

Assyrian:>>Some parts of the bible add information to others, some describe the same things in different ways without adding inforrmation to a different description. Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. It is certainly describing the same event we read of earlier in Exodus but it isn't adding more information to the account of the exodus.

Even if you were right and Gen 2:4 is adding more information to Gen 1, you need to show where in Gen 1 it is adding this information. You claim it is day three, but I have shown you day three doesn't fit.

Your refutation is ridiculous. It is nothing more than your disagreement and has NO support from Scripture. Are you sure you use Scripture to support your views? You haven't even offered to tell us which DAY which YOU think Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of. Is it because you don't know, or don't want to say? Or is it because it destroys your Theistic Evolism?

Assyrain:>>Dear Readers. What Aman forgets here is that God loves figurative language. Jesus himself spoke to us in metaphors parables and symbols. I don't think he was an ancient goat herder, he did say he was the Good Shepherd, but that was speaking figuratively.

Is it a problem if the literal reading of two metaphors contradict each other? One parable describes the last judgement as fishermen sorting fish from a net. Another parable say it is separating wheat from tares. Which is it, a fishing net or a wheat harvest? Jesus said he was the Good Shepherd, John said he was the lamb of God, which is right, is Jesus a shepherd or a sheep? It isn't that they contradict each other, the seeming contradiction comes from reading them the wrong way.
​

...
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Assyrian:>>No reply?

I have already told you that Scripture is God's Truth, literally, figuratively, and Spiritually. It is God's Truth in every way. Why should I tell you again?

Assyrian:>>When did Jesus say Adam was made on the 3rd day?
​

Aman:>>The first man, we later come to know as Adam, was made the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants grew, according to Genesis 2:4-7.
​

Assyrian:>>That is what you say Aman, I asked where Jesus said Adam was made on the 3rd day.

Where does Jesus tell us Adam was "created" on the 6th Day? Since Jesus IS the Word, He tells us man was formed of the dust on the 3rd Day and "created" in God's Image on the 6th. This agrees with Scripture in the New Testament which tells us:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Aman:>>Those who have not been born Spiritually see this a Foolishness. Christians, what do you think?
​

Assyrian:>>Good question. How many people reading this thread, who have been born spiritually, consider Aman's ideas 'foolishness', or if you think that is too strong, mistaken.

Good idea. It's why we are here. Isn't it?

In Love,
Aman

 

[Assyrian]

Dear Assyrian, I have Never had a "numbering system" for the heavens. That's YOUR silly idea. Scripture shows that the first heaven was made the 2nd Day (Gen. 1:6-8) and the other heavenS were made the 3rd, (Gen. 2:4) in agreement with other Scripture which shows that God made at least 3 heavens by the 3rd Day. ll Corinthians 12:2

Apart from ignoring the heavens Genesis says God created on the first day, and adding in heavens on the third day, your system assumes the heavens are numbered chronologically, that the heaven God created first (ignoring Gen 1:1) is labelled the 'first heaven' the way Paul's heaven is the 'third heaven'. You are assuming Paul's heaven is the third heaven created, rather than being third heaven in distance spatially or spiritually. That is the way the bible distinguishes heavens, 'the highest heavens'. Your numbering system numbers the heavens chronologically, and then makes up you own chronology to number the heavens by, picking and choosing which heavens to remove or add to the account in Genesis 1.

Jesus is the Light. In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His Crucifixion, Jesus is praying to the Father: John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

Jesus was present in His Shekinah Glory or Brightness on the 1st Day, the ONLY Day before the world was. Jesus is God incarnate. His Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun. Acts 22:6 KJV - And it came to pass, that, as I made my - Bible Gateway In Heaven, Jesus IS literally the Light of the 3rd Heaven, just as He was for the first 3 Days of Creation.

What do you think happened the sun when Jesus was born? John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Can't have been any natural sun light around, if Jesus was the light of the world. But then how did people in China, in the parts of the world beyond the horizon from Galilee and Judea see if the light of the world was walking around out of sight beyond the curvature of the earth?

Since I have no idea what the Gnostic view on this is, I cannot reply. I do know that entropy shows the same thing. It's another agreement with Science.

You haven't explained how: if God created real actual light, how does it contain death or darkness?

I'm sorry for your misunderstanding of this verse. I will try to clear this up: It helps IF you cite the actual verses we are speaking of instead of the Chapter BEFORE these events:

Isaiah 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

... 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. That day, what day is that? The day Isaiah has just been talking about. Your 'earth is clean dissolved' is a prophecy of the future, not a description of the flood.

The above Scriptures are telling us of the "SNARE", or Trap laid by God to catch men. You seem to be unaware. I thought I had explained the Snare to you before. It's the Trap which God is using to show the foolishness of men's views. Scientists have falsely assumed that our Earth is the only Earth. The SNARE catches these people in their false thinking. They are not aware that Humans came from the first Earth, so their assumptions are FALSE. This includes their beloved view of the Theory of Evolution. The SNARE is the Flood.

Where does it say the SNARE is the flood? Isaiah certainly talks of the windows of heaven being opened, which is used for the flood but it is also used throughout the bible to refer to both blessings and judgements being poured out from heaven. And you still haven't shown how the earth being 'clean dissolved' means the firmament was destroyed.

Here is the verse with my comments:

Gen. 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The Lord made the Earth on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10
This verse is "adding" information to the events of the 3rd Day, and telling us God also made heavens (plural) on the 3rd Day. The first Heaven was made the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:

To confirm that this verse is speaking of the 3rd Day, it was BEFORE the plants grew. The plants GREW on the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:12. Tell a 4th grader that man was made on the 3rd Day, the same Day the Earth was made, but Before the plants grew on the 3rd Day. Then ask them which Day man was made. The verses don't say 3rd Day, but assume that someone can actually read and comprehend.

If you think Genesis 2 is adding information to Genesis 1, you need to look at when in Genesis 1 it is adding information to. Genesis 2:4 says it is talking about the day God created the heavens and the earth. What follows if the information it is adding to this day. You are mixing up the information added, to the description of where to add the information to. The creation of plants is added information, it doesn't tell you what day to add to it to. The description of the day, the day God created the heavens and the earth does not fit day three which only describes the earth being created, not the heavens. There are better day to fit that description, day 1, or from Gen 2:1, the whole of Genesis 1 being described as a day. Day three doesn't fit the description and I have already shown you that day three doesn't work because the reasons for there not being any plants in Genesis 2 simply don't fit day three in Genesis 2. You haven't been able to address that.

Assyrian:>>It doesn't, but even if it did it still wouldn't help you. Without a numbering system, or the basis by which days were numbered, you can't link Paul's third heaven with the new heaven in Revelation or any particular heaven mentioned in Genesis.

Sure I can. Genesis 2:4 says other heavens were made the 3rd Day. The first heaven was made the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8 That makes at least 3 heavens were made by the 3rd Day. It also means that God made a Multiverse instead of a Universe.

I thought you just said you never had a numbering system for the heavens?

I have NO numbering system for the heavens. That is YOUR false notion.

And there, you said it again. Yet you can name the first heaven and think it is numbered the same way Paul's third heaven was named, you can say Paul's third heaven was made on the third day and is the new heavens and earth of Revelation. All without the slightest shred of scriptural evidence.

False accusation. Go back and see which one of us is using Scripture to support their views and which one of us is having a terrible time understanding the most simple of things. ie. the 3rd Day I have NO problem supporting my views Scripturally,

I have no problem understanding you claims about Gen 2:4 and the third day, I just recognise the problems trying to make those two passages fit together. But no only do you force those two passages together, you draw conclusions from that interpretation that you cannot justify from scripture either and build a whole framework of speculation around this idea about bowl shaped firmaments and multiple earths, you arbitratily pick and choose which heavens mention in Genesis are real heavens and which to dismiss as real heavens on the basis of alchemical ideas of elements you read into Genesis. You confuse earth and world and firmament and claim firmaments were destroyed in the flood without any scriptures to back it up that refer to the flood and talk about a firmament being destroyed. Then you think because it fits this vast scheme you have thought up, it must be scriptural. I have shown you what scripture says, yet you haven't been able to provide scriptural justification for any of the ideas I have challenged you on.

but I also notice that you don't seem to believe Scripture. Is it because you have dismissed God's Holy Word as nothing but allegory?

i have never said scripture is nothing but allegory. It contains allegories and God loves to speak to us in allegory, metaphor, parables, poetry and symbols. But it isn't all allegory. The problem is literalists who try to understand God's word when they do not recognise his voice and how he so often speaks to us; literalists who are so bound up in their literalist legalism, that they think understanding a passage figuratively means you don't believe God.

Assyrian:>>Maybe you misunderstand me, I'm not asking you about the total number of heavens, but the numbers, first, second, third, you attach to the different heavens mentioned in scripture.

How do you understand them? It's simple for me. Heaven 1 is where Adam lived. Heaven 2 is our Universe. Heaven 3 is the world to come after our world is burned.

You still haven't explained the scrip[tural basis for the numbers you attach to the different heavens.

I don't attempt to number them. Paul mentioned a third heaven, but he didn't give us enough information to identify it. There was a lot about Paul's experience he left as mystery. 2Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. I don't feel the need to make up information about mysteries we haven't been told.

Assyrian:>>The firmament separated the waters of the world from the waters above the firmament, that doesn't make the firmament part of the world.

Picture the firmament as an Acrylic Globe. It is the boundary of the 1st heaven but is empty. God calls it heaven because it is filled with air. Peter tells us it was in the water and out of the water. It's a floating Acrylic Globe. Fill it with land and water and put a sliding top on it, and you have the first Heaven, which contains the Earth of Adam.

Yes I get your goldfish bowl idea and that you think it was floating, but you still haven't addressed my point. What makes the firmament part of the world rather than something distinct from the world it contains?

to be ...

 

[Assyrian]

...continued

Assyrian:>>The universe doesn't need a boundary to be separate from other universes in other dimensions or from the spiritual realm.

Then WHY don't we see Jesus? We will when He comes back. Every eye will see Him.
Revelation 1 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Because he isn't in our universe. Imagine our universe existing in as one universe among many, in a space with more dimensions than our three. The easiest, and very simplified, way to imagine it is as a 2 dimensional sheet of paper in our 3 dimensional world, you could have universes stacked on top of each other in the extra dimension outside the two dimensions of the sheet, like sheets of copier paper. Stretch the sheet out beyond A4, make your sheet of paper unbounded, infinitely long and infinitely wide, yet you will never get from one sheet of paper to the next because they are separated by a dimension that isn't part of our sheet. For someone drawn on one sheet with the most powerful telescope that can see forever on his sheet of paper, a drawing right beside it on the next sheet would be completely invisible. Of course where Jesus is, is probably outside any multiple dimensions or multiverse, which are created entities, while God existed in eternity before anything was created.

Assyrian:>>So you just pick up bit and pieces from the AV when it suits you, glean bits from Strong's when it suits you too, and if neither the AV nor Strong's have what you want you just make it up yourself? Look like the 'best I can do' is show you haven't any scriptural basis for any of the wild claims you have been making.

Thanks for the opinion of an obvious TE, who doesn't believe Scripture unless it's metaphorical. I'm sorry that you are not a Bible believing Christian.

How does that justify your picking and choosing between the AV, Strong's and you own imagination?

Dear Assyrian, Show us an earth without form. It's the igredients for an earth.

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void.

Assyrian:>>Quarks, protons, electrons, neutrons, Hydrogen, Helium, stars...

You are speaking of matter of the present Universe, which was made in the interior remnants of the earliest Stars. The present 2nd Heaven wasn't made for Billions of years AFTER the first Day.

So you alchemical elements, dust, air and water, which are formed from the chemical elements you understand were made in the heart of stars early in this universe, somehow existed billions of years before this universe was made?

Aman:>>I'm not making up anything. Genesis 2:4 is adding information to Genesis 1 as I have told you over and over. The entire Bible does this.
​

Assyrian:>>Some parts of the bible add information to others, some describe the same things in different ways without adding inforrmation to a different description. Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. It is certainly describing the same event we read of earlier in Exodus but it isn't adding more information to the account of the exodus.

Even if you were right and Gen 2:4 is adding more information to Gen 1, you need to show where in Gen 1 it is adding this information. You claim it is day three, but I have shown you day three doesn't fit.

Your refutation is ridiculous.

In other word you can't answer it.

It is nothing more than your disagreement and has NO support from Scripture.

I am showing you the leaps you are taking in you interpretation, the distance between what you claim scripture is talking about and what it actually says. I have used scripture itself to show you this and you haven't been able to answer me.

Are you sure you use Scripture to support your views? You haven't even offered to tell us which DAY which YOU think Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of. Is it because you don't know, or don't want to say? Or is it because it destroys your Theistic Evolism?

I have already told you I don't thing Gen 2:4 is referring to Genesis 1 at all, I haven't gone into the scriptures supporting my interpretation in any depth, then again you haven't asked me to.

I have already told you that Scripture is God's Truth, literally, figuratively, and Spiritually. It is God's Truth in every way. Why should I tell you again?

Not even sure what that is supposed to mean, let alone how it addresses what I said, or supports your criticism of figurative interpretation of the Genesis creation accounts.

Where does Jesus tell us Adam was "created" on the 6th Day? Since Jesus IS the Word, He tells us man was formed of the dust on the 3rd Day and "created" in God's Image on the 6th.

Two problems here. The bible distinguishes between what God speaks to us through inspired writers and what Jesus himself told us. Heb 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son. But worse than that, you are failing to distinguish between you own ideas and interpretations, and what the bible actually says. You are attributing your ideas to Jesus Christ.

This agrees with Scripture in the New Testament which tells us:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Where does Paul say Adam was made from dust on the third day? And I have shown you before the last Adam is Jesus Christ, not the Adam in Genesis.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Dear Assyrian, Show us an earth without form. It's the igredients for an earth.
​

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void.

Assyrian:>>Quarks, protons, electrons, neutrons, Hydrogen, Helium, stars...
​

Aman:>>You are speaking of matter of the present Universe, which was made in the interior remnants of the earliest Stars. The present 2nd Heaven wasn't made for Billions of years AFTER the first Day.
​

Assyrian:>>So you alchemical elements, dust, air and water, which are formed from the chemical elements you understand were made in the heart of stars early in this universe, somehow existed billions of years before this universe was made?

Of course, but I said nothing about chemical elements. Jesus took some of the air, dust, and water, which God created BEFORE the first Day, and "inflated" these simple ingredients or changed them into energy. The energy cooled for hundreds of thousands of years in darkness and when the first Stars put forth their light, grew into giants, and imploded to make Dark holes which produced the singularities which produces worlds, it was Billions of years BEFORE the first chemical elements were introduced into our Cosmos. Correct?

The Big Bang was on the 3rd Day but the Stars did NOT light until the 4th Day. Can you tell us HOW ancient men of 3k years ago, knew this, and correctly showed it in Genesis? It's proof of God for ONLY God could have possibly known these recently discovered scientific facts, thousands of years ago.

Aman:>>I'm not making up anything. Genesis 2:4 is adding information to Genesis 1 as I have told you over and over. The entire Bible does this.
​

Assyrian:>>Some parts of the bible add information to others, some describe the same things in different ways without adding inforrmation to a different description. Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. It is certainly describing the same event we read of earlier in Exodus but it isn't adding more information to the account of the exodus.

Even if you were right and Gen 2:4 is adding more information to Gen 1, you need to show where in Gen 1 it is adding this information. You claim it is day three, but I have shown you day three doesn't fit.
​

Aman:>>Your refutation is ridiculous.
​

Assyrian:>>In other word you can't answer it.

YOu can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You have NEVER refuted my Scriptural proof that man was made on any other day than Day 3. You must twist Scripture and change meanings of words in order to support your obviously flawed view. All you have is false accusations backed by nothing more than your own error filled views.

Aman:>>It is nothing more than your disagreement and has NO support from Scripture.
​

Assyrian:>>I am showing you the leaps you are taking in you interpretation, the distance between what you claim scripture is talking about and what it actually says. I have used scripture itself to show you this and you haven't been able to answer me.

I've answered your questions over and over but you keep coming back with your silly ideas which have NO basis in Scripture. Show us any time you refuted me and I couldn't reply. Either produce evidence for your false accusation against me or everyone will see that you are merely getting desperate. With Godless Evols this is where the name calling begins.

Aman:<<Are you sure you use Scripture to support your views? You haven't even offered to tell us which DAY which YOU think Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of. Is it because you don't know, or don't want to say? Or is it because it destroys your Theistic Evolism?
​

Assyrian:>>I have already told you I don't thing Gen 2:4 is referring to Genesis 1 at all, I haven't gone into the scriptures supporting my interpretation in any depth, then again you haven't asked me to.

I can tell you the traditional view, which is most likely the same as your view. The second day was when God made a big piece of metal and hung it in the sky, and called it heaven. Right?

Aman:>>I have already told you that Scripture is God's Truth, literally, figuratively, and Spiritually. It is God's Truth in every way. Why should I tell you again?
​

Assyrian:>>Not even sure what that is supposed to mean, let alone how it addresses what I said, or supports your criticism of figurative interpretation of the Genesis creation accounts.

God's Truth is the Truth in every way. When it is true figuratively, it will also be true literally. Jesus is the "door" figuratively, literally, Spiritually, and in every way, Jesus IS the door to Heaven.

Assyrian:>>Where does Jesus tell us Adam was "created" on the 6th Day?

Aman:>>Since Jesus IS the Word, He tells us man was formed of the dust on the 3rd Day and "created" in God's Image on the 6th.
​

Assyrian:>>Two problems here. The bible distinguishes between what God speaks to us through inspired writers and what Jesus himself told us. Heb 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son. But worse than that, you are failing to distinguish between you own ideas and interpretations, and what the bible actually says. You are attributing your ideas to Jesus Christ.

False Accusation. Jesus IS the Word of God. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, Jesus is the Light of the first Day, the only begotten of the Father. When you have seen Jesus, you have seen the ONLY God ever formed or that ever will be formed. Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament, Lord God, Jehovah, of the Old and Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Jesus is Brighter than the Noonday Sun and is God Incanate. In Him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily.

I am a man. Jesus is LORD. Jesus is the physical Creator and without Him, none of us would know a single word. Today, I will stand before Jesus and see Him as He is and I will bow my knees to Him, for Jesus is the only Father, the only God, ever formed physically.

Aman:>>This agrees with Scripture in the New Testament which tells us:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
​

Assyrian:>>Where does Paul say Adam was made from dust on the third day?

Paul doesn't tell us about the launch to the Moon either. I suppose he believed as you do.

Assyrian:>>And I have shown you before the last Adam is Jesus Christ, not the Adam in Genesis.

I have refuted your notion and shown that the second Adam was like the LORD from heaven AFTER he was born again. The Father does NOT send the Son into every Christian physically. The Father sends the Holy Spirit into Christians. When you are created in God's Image, it's a Spiritual, invisible, happening.

Explain your idea that the second Adam was Jesus. I don't think you can.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Jesus is the Light. In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His Crucifixion, Jesus is praying to the Father: John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.

Jesus was present in His Shekinah Glory or Brightness on the 1st Day, the ONLY Day before the world was. Jesus is God incarnate. His Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun. Acts 22:6 KJV - And it came to pass, that, as I made my - Bible Gateway In Heaven, Jesus IS literally the Light of the 3rd Heaven, just as He was for the first 3 Days of Creation.
​

Assyrian:>>What do you think happened the sun when Jesus was born? John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Can't have been any natural sun light around, if Jesus was the light of the world. But then how did people in China, in the parts of the world beyond the horizon from Galilee and Judea see if the light of the world was walking around out of sight beyond the curvature of the earth?

Dear Assyrian, Again, God's Truth is the Truth in every way. Jesus is the light of the world figuratively, and is literally the Light of the first 3 Days and is the Light of Heaven, which has no need of the Sun, nor the Moon. Revelation 21 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Aman:>>Since I have no idea what the Gnostic view on this is, I cannot reply. I do know that entropy shows the same thing. It's another agreement with Science.
​

Assyrian:>>You haven't explained how: if God created real actual light, how does it contain death or darkness?

God didn't "create" Light. Jesus is the Light and He was in the Father, before the beginning. When He came forth from within the Father on the 1st Day, His Shekinah Glory shined forth, and when He was transfigured, His face shined like the Sun. Matthew 17 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Aman:>>I'm sorry for your misunderstanding of this verse. I will try to clear this up: It helps IF you cite the actual verses we are speaking of instead of the Chapter BEFORE these events:

Isaiah 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Assyrian:>>... 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. That day, what day is that? The day Isaiah has just been talking about. Your 'earth is clean dissolved' is a prophecy of the future, not a description of the flood.

Again you are confused. Here is the verse which is marked showing a completely different thought at the beginning. I suppose you missed it.

Isa 24:21¶And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

A Day is some 4.5 Billion years in length. You are mixing one thought with a different one.

Aman:>>The above Scriptures are telling us of the "SNARE", or Trap laid by God to catch men. You seem to be unaware. I thought I had explained the Snare to you before. It's the Trap which God is using to show the foolishness of men's views. Scientists have falsely assumed that our Earth is the only Earth. The SNARE catches these people in their false thinking. They are not aware that Humans came from the first Earth, so their assumptions are FALSE. This includes their beloved view of the Theory of Evolution. The SNARE is the Flood.

Assyrian:>>Where does it say the SNARE is the flood? Isaiah certainly talks of the windows of heaven being opened, which is used for the flood but it is also used throughout the bible to refer to both blessings and judgements being poured out from heaven. And you still haven't shown how the earth being 'clean dissolved' means the firmament was destroyed.

Here is the verse: Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, [that] he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare:

Do you see the ":" which indicates that the SNARE is:

for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

The entire world of Adam, the 1st Heaven, made on the 2nd Day, is no more. It fell and it will not rise again. My hope is that some of the firmament remains at the bottom of Lake Van.

Aman:<<Here is the verse with my comments:

Gen. 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The Lord made the Earth on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10
This verse is "adding" information to the events of the 3rd Day, and telling us God also made heavens (plural) on the 3rd Day. The first Heaven was made the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:

To confirm that this verse is speaking of the 3rd Day, it was BEFORE the plants grew. The plants GREW on the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:12. Tell a 4th grader that man was made on the 3rd Day, the same Day the Earth was made, but Before the plants grew on the 3rd Day. Then ask them which Day man was made. The verses don't say 3rd Day, but assume that someone can actually read and comprehend.
​

Assyrian:>>If you think Genesis 2 is adding information to Genesis 1, you need to look at when in Genesis 1 it is adding information to. Genesis 2:4 says it is talking about the day God created the heavens and the earth. What follows if the information it is adding to this day. You are mixing up the information added, to the description of where to add the information to. The creation of plants is added information, it doesn't tell you what day to add to it to.

Sure it does since plants GREW on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:12 Genesis 2:5 is speaking of the time just BEFORE the plants grew, when man was made. You are hung up on the fact that you can't find the information about adding heavens because it doesn't fit with your thinking. The 1st heaven was made the 2nd Day. The other heavens were made on the 3rd Day, the same Day the first Earth was made. Day 3 according to Genesis 1:9-10.


Continued........

 

[Aman777]

Assyrian:>>The description of the day, the day God created the heavens and the earth does not fit day three which only describes the earth being created, not the heavens.

It is ADDING information. One of the additional bits is that God also made other heavens on the 3rd Day. You can't find it in Genesis 1 because it is ADDDING information to the events of the 3rd Day NOT told about in Genesis one.

Assyrian:<<There are better day to fit that description, day 1, or from Gen 2:1, the whole of Genesis 1 being described as a day. Day three doesn't fit the description and I have already shown you that day three doesn't work because the reasons for there not being any plants in Genesis 2 simply don't fit day three in Genesis 2. You haven't been able to address that.

Correction: You have been unable to understand. It's probably because it goes against your religion. The plants were NOT made until AFTER man was made. Genesis 2:8-9 destroys your silly notion that the plants were made before man, by showing you the Garden was planted AFTER the man was made.

Assyrian:>>It doesn't, but even if it did it still wouldn't help you. Without a numbering system, or the basis by which days were numbered, you can't link Paul's third heaven with the new heaven in Revelation or any particular heaven mentioned in Genesis.
​

Aman:>>Sure I can. Genesis 2:4 says other heavens were made the 3rd Day. The first heaven was made the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8 That makes at least 3 heavens were made by the 3rd Day. It also means that God made a Multiverse instead of a Universe.
​

Assyrian:>>I thought you just said you never had a numbering system for the heavens?

Aman:>>I have NO numbering system for the heavens. That is YOUR false notion.
​

Assyrian:>>And there, you said it again. Yet you can name the first heaven and think it is numbered the same way Paul's third heaven was named, you can say Paul's third heaven was made on the third day and is the new heavens and earth of Revelation. All without the slightest shred of scriptural evidence.

Aman:>>False accusation. Go back and see which one of us is using Scripture to support their views and which one of us is having a terrible time understanding the most simple of things. ie. the 3rd Day I have NO problem supporting my views Scripturally,

Assyrian:>>I have no problem understanding you claims about Gen 2:4 and the third day, I just recognise the problems trying to make those two passages fit together. But no only do you force those two passages together, you draw conclusions from that interpretation that you cannot justify from scripture either and build a whole framework of speculation around this idea about bowl shaped firmaments and multiple earths, you arbitratily pick and choose which heavens mention in Genesis are real heavens and which to dismiss as real heavens on the basis of alchemical ideas of elements you read into Genesis.

More False Accusations. In trying to bring things down to the lowest level, I sometimes say, Picture the first world as a Giant Snow Globe. You take that statement and change it into some UFO conspiracy plot and claim that I am overreaching. I didn't write Genesis 1:6-8 which tells us the first heaven was made the second day. I didn't write Genesis 2:4 which tells us other heavens were made the third Day. I just read about it and told you. Because it doesn't fit with your religion, you attack, thus making it harder for you to understand.

Assyrian:>>You confuse earth and world and firmament and claim firmaments were destroyed in the flood without any scriptures to back it up that refer to the flood and talk about a firmament being destroyed. Then you think because it fits this vast scheme you have thought up, it must be scriptural. I have shown you what scripture says, yet you haven't been able to provide scriptural justification for any of the ideas I have challenged you on.

Of course not. It doesn't fit with your religion of changing God's Holy Word into fables, allegory, and fiction. It destroys your beloved TOE, and shows you prophecy of what will happen to those views at the end of time. You don't like my view because it IS Scriptural, and your's is not.

Aman:>>but I also notice that you don't seem to believe Scripture. Is it because you have dismissed God's Holy Word as nothing but allegory?
​

Assyrain:><>i have never said scripture is nothing but allegory. It contains allegories and God loves to speak to us in allegory, metaphor, parables, poetry and symbols. But it isn't all allegory. The problem is literalists who try to understand God's word when they do not recognise his voice and how he so often speaks to us; literalists who are so bound up in their literalist legalism, that they think understanding a passage figuratively means you don't believe God.

Not me. I can see several ways in which to understand a passage. That is WHY I look for the Truth Scripturally, Historically, and Scientifically, to find the agreement of these Truths. I don't accept modernist, liberal, make up your own Bible, know it all, Evol fantasies.

Assyrian:>>Maybe you misunderstand me, I'm not asking you about the total number of heavens, but the numbers, first, second, third, you attach to the different heavens mentioned in scripture.
​

Aman:>>How do you understand them? It's simple for me. Heaven 1 is where Adam lived. Heaven 2 is our Universe. Heaven 3 is the world to come after our world is burned.
​

Assyrian:>>You still haven't explained the scrip[tural basis for the numbers you attach to the different heavens.

Since Genesis 1:6-8 tells me God made the 1st Heaven on the 2nd Day and Genesis 2:4 tells me He made other HeavenS on the 3rd Day, and God tells me ALL the way through Scripture that He totally and completely destroyed the 1st Heaven, and that He is going to burn the present world, I look forward to the 3rd Heaven, wherein dwelleth righteousness. I hope He made a Zillion and I can hardly wait to find out.

Assyrian:>>I don't attempt to number them. Paul mentioned a third heaven, but he didn't give us enough information to identify it. There was a lot about Paul's experience he left as mystery. 2Cor 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. I don't feel the need to make up information about mysteries we haven't been told.

It seems the whole Bible is a mystery to you. Where do you think Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us? Where is New Jerusalem? The 3rd Heaven is the object of the Creation. The entire History of it's Creation is told in Genesis Chapter 1. I am sorry it's such a mystery to you.

Assyrian:>>The firmament separated the waters of the world from the waters above the firmament, that doesn't make the firmament part of the world.
​

Aman:>>Picture the firmament as an Acrylic Globe. It is the boundary of the 1st heaven but is empty. God calls it heaven because it is filled with air. Peter tells us it was in the water and out of the water. It's a floating Acrylic Globe. Fill it with land and water and put a sliding top on it, and you have the first Heaven, which contains the Earth of Adam.
​

Assyrian:>>Yes I get your goldfish bowl idea and that you think it was floating, but you still haven't addressed my point. What makes the firmament part of the world rather than something distinct from the world it contains?

According to Genesis 1:6-8 the firmament, IS the first world. It's the boundary which contains the heaven, earth, and water of Adam's world, inside it. Someone one told me it sounded like a hermetically sealed world. This would, of course, make it transportable, since it was self supporting. It would also protect it from other worlds.

In Love,
Aman

 

[juvenissun]

Where does Paul say Adam was made from dust on the third day? And I have shown you before the last Adam is Jesus Christ, not the Adam in Genesis.

This person is promoting his strange theology very hard. Unfortunately that he should realize that he probably can not find the second person, past, now and in the future, who would agree with him,

When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

 

[Aman777]

Originally Posted by Assyrian

Where does Paul say Adam was made from dust on the third day? And I have shown you before the last Adam is Jesus Christ, not the Adam in Genesis.
​

Juv:>>This person is promoting his strange theology very hard.

Dear Juv, It may be strange to you, but it agrees with what is written. If it doesn't, then why don't you show us where it doesn't? The more you investigate, the more you will find that my view agrees with Scripture, Science, and History. Does your's?

Juv:>>Unfortunately that he should realize that he probably can not find the second person, past, now and in the future, who would agree with him,

Not so. I have many who agree with me. Some of them are Evols, people with degrees in Physics, Catholics, atheists, etc. Bible believing Christians agree with me, but phonies and Theistic Evols don't like my views because it destroys their beloved faith in the flawed Theory of Evolution.

Juv:>>When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

It's the nature of people. Jesus couldn't rely on His Disciples or His Jewish religion, and seemed all alone when they murdered Him. Beware when men speak well of you, for they did the same of the False Prophets. Luke 6 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

In Love,
Aman

 

[juvenissun]

Not so. I have many who agree with me. Some of them are Evols, people with degrees in Physics, Catholics, atheists, etc. Bible believing Christians agree with me, but phonies and Theistic Evols don't like my views because it destroys their beloved faith in the flawed Theory of Evolution.

Juv:>>When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

Please show me anything anywhere that your idea (Adam was made on Day 3) has been presented by anyone other than you.

 

[Aman777]

Juv:>>When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

Juv:>>Please show me anything anywhere that your idea (Adam was made on Day 3) has been presented by anyone other than you.

Dear Juv, I've been online for a long time. On the old AOL message boards on Creation vs. Evolution, I met PillarsTwo. He used to post to this board and is the reason I found this board. Someone on the Amazon boards said that he had heard a lot of what I post before, and referred me to the Christian Forums, where Pillars Two had posted some 2 years ago.

I've been here since January and I know of no one who posts that Adam was made on the 3rd Day except me. I don't know why since it is obvious what Scripture teaches. Are there any Bible believers here? Or can someone else tell us which Day Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of, if not the 3rd Day?

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Most people have simply believed man was made the 6th Day because that's what they were told the ancients thought. Read it for what it says instead of what you have been told it says, and you too will agree with me.

I am beginning to sense a hostility which I don't understand, since it is coming from the TEs here. I understand that the TEs here claim to be Christians, but they don't seem to like my Scripture supported views, which destroys their false scientific assumptions. It's about the same as debating Godless Evols since neither group seems to believe God's Holy Word.

Am I wrong? or are the TEs here Bible believers? or are they Evols first and Christians later?

In Love,
Aman

 

[juvenissun]

Juv:>>When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

Juv:>>Please show me anything anywhere that your idea (Adam was made on Day 3) has been presented by anyone other than you.

Dear Juv, I've been online for a long time. On the old AOL message boards on Creation vs. Evolution, I met PillarsTwo. He used to post to this board and is the reason I found this board. Someone on the Amazon boards said that he had heard a lot of what I post before, and referred me to the Christian Forums, where Pillars Two had posted some 2 years ago.

I've been here since January and I know of no one who posts that Adam was made on the 3rd Day except me. I don't know why since it is obvious what Scripture teaches. Are there any Bible believers here? Or can someone else tell us which Day Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of, if not the 3rd Day?

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Most people have simply believed man was made the 6th Day because that's what they were told the ancients thought. Read it for what it says instead of what you have been told it says, and you too will agree with me.

I am beginning to sense a hostility which I don't understand, since it is coming from the TEs here. I understand that the TEs here claim to be Christians, but they don't seem to like my Scripture supported views, which destroys their false scientific assumptions. It's about the same as debating Godless Evols since neither group seems to believe God's Holy Word.

Am I wrong? or are the TEs here Bible believers? or are they Evols first and Christians later?

In Love,
Aman

No hostility. The idea that Adam was made on Day 3 is simply wrong.

I still like to see a website or a webpage which at least support your idea. I think it would be very hard to find.

 

[ChetSinger]

Juv:>>When he insisted on something which not a second person would agree, I think he really should wake up.

Juv:>>Please show me anything anywhere that your idea (Adam was made on Day 3) has been presented by anyone other than you.

Dear Juv, I've been online for a long time. On the old AOL message boards on Creation vs. Evolution, I met PillarsTwo. He used to post to this board and is the reason I found this board. Someone on the Amazon boards said that he had heard a lot of what I post before, and referred me to the Christian Forums, where Pillars Two had posted some 2 years ago.

I've been here since January and I know of no one who posts that Adam was made on the 3rd Day except me. I don't know why since it is obvious what Scripture teaches. Are there any Bible believers here? Or can someone else tell us which Day Genesis 2:4-7 is speaking of, if not the 3rd Day?

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Most people have simply believed man was made the 6th Day because that's what they were told the ancients thought. Read it for what it says instead of what you have been told it says, and you too will agree with me.

I am beginning to sense a hostility which I don't understand, since it is coming from the TEs here. I understand that the TEs here claim to be Christians, but they don't seem to like my Scripture supported views, which destroys their false scientific assumptions. It's about the same as debating Godless Evols since neither group seems to believe God's Holy Word.

Am I wrong? or are the TEs here Bible believers? or are they Evols first and Christians later?

In Love,
Aman

I think it would be presumptuous to state that anyone who doesn't agree with your particular interpretation of Genesis 2:4-7 isn't a Bible believer. So I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. You're certainly not claiming, for example, that the church fathers weren't Bible believers, and I know of none who held to a 3rd day creation of man.

I see no problem with chapter 2 being a drill-down into events on the 6th day. Here's one example that explains what I'm speaking of: Genesis contradictions?. The second paragraph addresses your dilemma with 2:4-7.

The differences in the toledoth statements of Genesis 2:4 and 5:1 affirm that chapter 1 is the overview the record of the origin of the &#8216;heavens and earth&#8217; (2:4)&#8212;whereas chapter 2 is concerned with Adam and Eve, the detailed account of Adam and Eve&#8217;s creation (5:1,2). The wording of 2:4 also suggests the shift in emphasis: in the first part of the verse it is &#8216;heavens and earth&#8217; whereas in the end of the verse it is &#8216;earth and heavens&#8217;. Scholars think that the first part of the verse would have been on the end of a clay or stone tablet recording the origin of the universe and the latter part of the verse would have been on the beginning of a second tablet containing the account of events on earth pertaining particularly to Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:4b&#8211;5:1a).

Let us apply this understanding to another objection: some also see a problem with the plants and herbs in Genesis 2:5 and the trees in Genesis 2:9. We have already realized that Genesis 2 focuses on issues of direct import to Adam and Eve, not creation in general. Notice that the plants and herbs are described as &#8216;of the field&#8217; in Genesis chapter 2 (compare 1:12) and they needed a man to tend them (2:5). These are clearly cultivated plants, not just plants in general. Also, the trees (2:9) are only the trees planted in the garden, not trees in general.

Personally, I think you're moving heaven and earth to resolve a dilemma that doesn't exist.

 

[Calminian]

No hostility. The idea that Adam was made on Day 3 is simply wrong.

I still like to see a website or a webpage which at least support your idea. I think it would be very hard to find.

I'm pretty sure he's the only person on earth who actually believes this.

 

[Assyrian]

Assyrian:>>So you alchemical elements, dust, air and water, which are formed from the chemical elements you understand were made in the heart of stars early in this universe, somehow existed billions of years before this universe was made?

Of course, but I said nothing about chemical elements. Jesus took some of the air, dust, and water, which God created BEFORE the first Day, and "inflated" these simple ingredients or changed them into energy. The energy cooled for hundreds of thousands of years in darkness and when the first Stars put forth their light, grew into giants, and imploded to make Dark holes which produced the singularities which produces worlds, it was Billions of years BEFORE the first chemical elements were introduced into our Cosmos. Correct?

Not really, you have some understanding about the early history of the universe but you throw in a lot of your own ideas about black holes. But that isn't the issue here. Air, dust and water are all made from elements formed early in the history of the universe, like Hydrogen, or were formed later from Hydrogen in the heart of stars. You seem to understand this, yet you also think air, dust and water existed before this present universe and were used to by Jesus to make this universe. It was understandable to alchemists to misunderstand the nature of matter and think its basic building blocks were fire earth air and water. We know better now that air, earth and water are made of atom which in turn are composed of subatomic particles. You understand this yet you still want to take your failed alchemical elements air, dust and water and shove them back before the beginning of the universe. Why?

The Big Bang was on the 3rd Day but the Stars did NOT light until the 4th Day. Can you tell us HOW ancient men of 3k years ago, knew this, and correctly showed it in Genesis? It's proof of God for ONLY God could have possibly known these recently discovered scientific facts, thousands of years ago.

There is no evidence ancient men knew anything about the Big Bang, or suggested it was on the third day. That is stuff you read into Genesis, then think it is an amazing proof of God that he put all this in Genesis. God doesn't need proof of his existence that are the products of you imagination.

Assyrian:>>Some parts of the bible add information to others, some describe the same things in different ways without adding information to a different description. Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. It is certainly describing the same event we read of earlier in Exodus but it isn't adding more information to the account of the exodus.

Even if you were right and Gen 2:4 is adding more information to Gen 1, you need to show where in Gen 1 it is adding this information. You claim it is day three, but I have shown you day three doesn't fit.

Aman:>>Your refutation is ridiculous.
​

Assyrian:>>In other word you can't answer it.

YOu can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You have NEVER refuted my Scriptural proof that man was made on any other day than Day 3. You must twist Scripture and change meanings of words in order to support your obviously flawed view. All you have is false accusations backed by nothing more than your own error filled views.

And you still can't answer it. I have taken apart your claim Genesis 2:4 fits the third day, and you can't put it back together again.

I've answered your questions over and over but you keep coming back with your silly ideas which have NO basis in Scripture. Show us any time you refuted me and I couldn't reply. Either produce evidence for your false accusation against me or everyone will see that you are merely getting desperate. With Godless Evols this is where the name calling begins.

I have just shown you a refutation you cannot address. Another is when I asked you about the reasons for there not being any plants in Gen 1:10 and why it doesn't fit the reasons given for the lack of plants in Gen 2:5. How long did we spend going back over that again and again and you never could come up with an answer. I have shown you that Isaiah 24:19 the earth is clean dissolved, is about the earth or the land not the firmament, that it is a prophecy about the future not a description of the flood and you can't address my points. You haven't provided a basis for your numbering and identification of the heavens. Nor have you given any reason, other than alchemy, for excluding the heavens created in Gen 1:1. I showed you had no basis for human intelligence being the the result of prehistoric man interbreeding with Noah's grandchildren, you dropped that discussion too.

I can tell you the traditional view, which is most likely the same as your view. The second day was when God made a big piece of metal and hung it in the sky, and called it heaven. Right?

That seems to be the cosmology of the writers, but it isn't what the creation account is about. If we were meant to read Genesis 1 as a science lesson, then that is what it would teach us, but it isn't about teaching science or cosmology.

God's Truth is the Truth in every way. When it is true figuratively, it will also be true literally. Jesus is the "door" figuratively, literally, Spiritually, and in every way, Jesus IS the door to Heaven.

Jesus is how we get to heaven, he isn't a literal wooden door, he isn't a grape vine either, you and I aren't literal branches. Bread and wine didn't turn into real muscle tissue and blood, Jesus wasn't a real lamb, he worked as a carpenter or builder, not as a shepherd and he didn't die for sheep. The book of Revelation is God's truth too, it doesn't mean there are going to seven headed godzillas stomping around the world.

Do you think Jesus' parable's mean at the last judgement angels will get a real net, catch real fish and separate them? Will they separate real wheat from real weeds and thrown the weeds into the fire? And if these parable are not meant literally, does it matter if they give very different descriptions of the last judgement?

False Accusation. Jesus IS the Word of God. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, Jesus is the Light of the first Day, the only begotten of the Father. When you have seen Jesus, you have seen the ONLY God ever formed or that ever will be formed. Jesus is YHWH of the Old Testament, Lord God, Jehovah, of the Old and Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Jesus is Brighter than the Noonday Sun and is God Incanate. In Him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead, Bodily.

I never denied Jesus is the Word of God. It is one thing to say the bible is the word of God, but does that mean the bible is Jesus? Do you kneel down before your copy of the AV and worship it? If you don't then you still need to address my point:

The bible distinguishes between what God speaks to us through inspired writers and what Jesus himself told us. Heb 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son.​

If you are going to say I made a false accusation, you could at least try to refute the points I made.

But worse than that, you are failing to distinguish between you own ideas and interpretations, and what the bible actually says. You are attributing your ideas to Jesus Christ.

I am a man. Jesus is LORD. Jesus is the physical Creator and without Him, none of us would know a single word. Today, I will stand before Jesus and see Him as He is and I will bow my knees to Him, for Jesus is the only Father, the only God, ever formed physically.

Good. So best not attribute your ideas as 'Jesus tells us', however good or right you think your ideas are.

Assyrian:>>Where does Paul say Adam was made from dust on the third day?

Paul doesn't tell us about the launch to the Moon either. I suppose he believed as you do.

I don't quote Paul as evidence for the moon landings. You tried to use him to back up your claim Adam was made on the third day.

Assyrian:>>And I have shown you before the last Adam is Jesus Christ, not the Adam in Genesis.

I have refuted your notion and shown that the second Adam was like the LORD from heaven AFTER he was born again. The Father does NOT send the Son into every Christian physically. The Father sends the Holy Spirit into Christians. When you are created in God's Image, it's a Spiritual, invisible, happening.

Hardly refuted. You dropped the subject. I agree that anyone who is born again is transformed to be like the Lord of Heaven. But the issue isn't whether Adam was like the Lord of Heaven (if, as you claim, he was born again) the question is who the Lord of heaven is.

1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Paul is comparing two men here. The first man is Adam. The second man is the last Adam, the Lord from heaven. Those who are born again will be made like the Lord from heaven, but we are not the Lord from heaven himself. That is Jesus Christ.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We were all born in the image of Adam the man of dust, earthy as the AV puts it. Whose image are we transformed into when we are born again? Are we transformed into the image of Adam (even your reborn Adam), or are we transformed into the image of Christ?

to be...

 

[Assyrian]

...continued

Dear Assyrian, Again, God's Truth is the Truth in every way. Jesus is the light of the world figuratively, and is literally the Light of the first 3 Days and is the Light of Heaven, which has no need of the Sun, nor the Moon. Revelation 21 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

If you recognise that when the bible say Jesus is the light of the world it is speaking figuratively, what makes you think the light on day three has to be Jesus? If you are a literalist why not simply take it as God creating physical light before he created the sun? Not that there is anything in interpreting it figuratively, you are in really good company throughout the history of the church. The problem is claiming figurative interpretaiton is wrong while you interpreting parts of it figuratively.

God didn't "create" Light. Jesus is the Light and He was in the Father, before the beginning. When He came forth from within the Father on the 1st Day, His Shekinah Glory shined forth, and when He was transfigured, His face shined like the Sun. Matthew 17 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Even if you don't take Genesis literally when it say Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Light still exists and if it exists the bible tells us God created it through Christ. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

Again you are confused. Here is the verse which is marked showing a completely different thought at the beginning. I suppose you missed it.

Isa 24:21¶And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

A Day is some 4.5 Billion years in length. You are mixing one thought with a different one.

You claim Days are 4.5 billion years, the bible doesn't give us a length, in fact the only time lengths of time are attributed to non literal days are in Psalm 90 where we are told they can be as a thousand year,s and in Ezekiel 4 where they stand for a year. So they can mean extended periods of time, potentially even your 4.5 billion years, but they don't have to be 4.5 billion years.

But what is important for us with that phrase "in that day" it is how the bible indicates to us when a passage is referring to, whether it is in the past or still in the future and what else will happen then. In that day is talking about the day ''the earth is clean dissolved'' and ''it shall come to pass" tells us 'the earth is clean dissolved'' is talking about the future.

Here is the verse: Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, [that] he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare:

Do you see the ":" which indicates that the SNARE is:

for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

That just tells you the snare is a judgement from heaven, it doesn't tell you the judgement was the flood. I have told you before, that phraseology is used throughout the bible to refer to both blessing and judgement poured out form heaven. Just because the flood is one of the passages that mentions the windows of heaven, it doesn't mean the snare is the flood. This is another judgement poured out from heaven one Isaiah tells us shall come to pass.

Assyrian:>>If you think Genesis 2 is adding information to Genesis 1, you need to look at when in Genesis 1 it is adding information to. Genesis 2:4 says it is talking about the day God created the heavens and the earth. What follows if the information it is adding to this day. You are mixing up the information added, to the description of where to add the information to. The creation of plants is added information, it doesn't tell you what day to add to it to.

Sure it does since plants GREW on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:12 Genesis 2:5 is speaking of the time just BEFORE the plants grew, when man was made. You are hung up on the fact that you can't find the information about adding heavens because it doesn't fit with your thinking. The 1st heaven was made the 2nd Day. The other heavens were made on the 3rd Day, the same Day the first Earth was made. Day 3 according to Genesis 1:9-10.

Why is it when you say 'Sure it does' it usually means you have completely ignored what I said?

Did you make any attempt to distinguish between the description of what day to add the additional information, and the additional information being added?

to be...