Dear Calminian, Thanks for trying, brother.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
In Love,
Aman
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Man made on 3rd Day
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Dear Calminian, Thanks for trying, brother.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
In Love,
Aman
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Science has always confirmed my religion. My religion is a result ofmy 20 years in science research & development working in product development and QC labs. There is no such thing as scientific history or even accurate history. Scientific history is as much a lie as any fortune cookie you read. Certainly not from Hell. Just stupid application of effort.
Let me give you one example. Two guys planted some bombs in Boston. A good portion of all the powers of science available went to work to find the suspects. They gave up. All the power of science and maybe a million dollars of effort didn't find the guy in the boat.
A man taking out the garbage saw the suspects blood on his boat in the driveway.
And Science is happy to tell you that anything they say may be corrected or thrown away tomorrow when they discover what's under the next rock. This suspect may be the wrong guy.
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
My only explanation of "Peter's total destruction of the first heaven" is that you made it all up, because Peter doesn't talk about a first heaven being destroyed. He talks about the present heavens being destroyed.
There are deeper truths in scripture, but deep message they speak of are spiritual or moral truths. The story of Noah and the Ark is also a picture of Christ and our salvation. The passover lamb speaks of Christ's death freeing us from our bondage. The Israelites grumbling in the wilderness warn us about our attitudes. But the deeper truths you talk about aren't all that deep, they are on the level of the sort of factual information a literal reading of the text supplies. 2 Corinthians tells us the number of the heaven Paul went to, your deeper truths add numbers to the heavens in Genesis 1 and in 2Peter 3. Genesis 1 give us a list of things created on day 3, your deep truth adds more items to the list, Adam and the third heavens were created on day three as well.
No.
They're not. Peter uses the word kosmos to describe the sinful society destroyed by the flood 2Pet 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly. 2Pet 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. It does not mean the heavens and the earth
You still haven't provided scriptural evidence to identified Paul's third heaven with any heaven mentioed in Genesis or 2 Peter, or given any scriptural basis for the numbers you attach to the other heavens.
You may know that, I don't. There isn't any basis basis in scripture for that claim.
Again, there no mention of creating any heavens on the third day.
Or at least a third heaven. The numbering may simply be symbolic. But lets assume it means there are (at least) three heavens.
Assuming the heaven made on day two is the first heaven. You haven't shown that.
Actually as far as I remember you haven't explained how the heavens are numbered. Are they numbered spatially by how high each heaven is? Are they numbered chronologically in order of their creation? Or is it a completely different numbering system?
The world? To come? I thought Paul already went there.
I look out a window and I can see the earth, along with a number of different things that could be described as the heavens, clouds, the sky, the sun moon and stars out in space. What basis do you have to label everything as the 2nd heaven?
No you arbitrarily attached numbers to different heavens mentioned in scripture, and to some heavens you made up yourself.
It is the same word in Hebrew. If you want to go by the capitalisation thrown in by the AV translators, your 'first' heaven on day two is capitalised Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. But your 'second and third' heavens in are lower case Gen 2:4 in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
You still haven't addressed my question why when Genesis uses the word heavens in Genesis 1:1 they don't count among your three heavens.
That was a Greek philosophical idea, not Hebrew one. If it was a Hebrew one you might argue that the writer was describing creation in those terms, not that Jesus had to made the world that way. Though it seems unlikely the writer of Genesis 1 was describing the creation in terms of the elements dust, air and water since Genesis 1 doesn't even mention air or dust,
No. Genesis 2:4 says in the day God created the heavens and the earth. If you want to identify a period in Genesis 1 with that, you need to find a time that fits both descriptions, a day when God created both heavens and the earth. That is not day 3.
I wouldn't use Occam's razor as an argument if I were you. 'Simple' in terms of Occam's razor means you don't have to make up lots of things for your idea to work. It says the more things you have to make up for it to work, the less likely your idea is to be true. Because I have never come across an interpretation of Genesis that makes up more stuff than yours.
I think Genesis 1&2 are both figurative pictures of God's work of creation. Because they are not meant literally, there is no reason to try to fit the two stories together, and as we have seen they don't fit. I see Genesis 2 as a parable, an expansion the potter metaphor we see so often in scripture, where God makes each one of us from clay, or when it says that nation of Israel is clay in the potters hand.
Genesis 1 is a poetic expansion of the metaphor Moses uses to teach Sabbath Observance, the anthropomorphic metaphor of God as a workman making the world in six days, then resting on the seventh day and being refreshed. Not only is God identifying himself with workers labouring out in the field, who too are refreshed by a Sabbath rest (Moses use the same language to describe both). But the idea of God being refreshed after a day's rest is not one we can take literally. Almighty God was not tired or worn out by the work of creation. But the metaphor goes deeper than that. It is more than a lesson teaching Sabbath observance. The Sabbath itself is a picture of the gospel and the rest we enter into through faith in Christ, of the eternity and all we have in eternity in Christ. Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
How can you say 'Absolutely' then completely fail to answer my point? Lets try again.
You are giving the reason there were no plants in Gen 1:10, "they hadn't been created yet". But you still haven't addressed the rest of my question. Is this the reason given in Gen 2:5 for there not being any plants? Does the reason there were no plants in Gen 2:5 fit the reason there were no plants in Gen 1:10?
You are saying that God is going to judge people based on whether the believe your unique interpretation of Genesis or not?
Extraterrestrial means someone from another planet, you believe Noah and his family came from a different planet to theis one don't you.
It refers to tribes living in and around Canaan, called Anakim or Rephaim (AV 'giants') descended from the Nephilim (AV also 'giants') we read about in Genesis 6. Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them." They lived in the area we call Jordan Deut 2:20 (It is also counted as a land of Rephaim. Rephaim formerly lived there--but the Ammonites call them Zamzummim-- 21 a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim; but the LORD destroyed them before the Ammonites, and they dispossessed them and settled in their place.) They were among the enemies defeated in Canaan by Joshua Josh 11:21 And Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill country of Judah, and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua devoted them to destruction with their cities, and by Caleb Josh 14:12 So now give me this hill country of which the LORD spoke on that day, for you heard on that day how the Anakim were there, with great fortified cities. It may be that the LORD will be with me, and I shall drive them out just as the LORD said." The last we hear of them are Goliath and his friends described as being descended from the Rephaim 2Samuel 21:22 David and his soldiers killed these four men who were descendants of the Rephaim from Gath.
What ever the "and also after that' mean, it is not describing the origin of our human intelligence, they are not the Israelites, they were the enemies of the Israelites, of Joshua, Caleb and of David.
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Aman:>>The first "Heaven" was made the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8
Other "Heavens" were made the 3rd Day. Gen. 2:4
Assyrian:>>You still haven't provided scriptural evidence to identified Paul's third heaven with any heaven mentioed in Genesis or 2 Peter, or given any scriptural basis for the numbers you attach to the other heavens.Other "Heavens" were made the 3rd Day. Gen. 2:4
Aman:>>Lets play a game. We know the first heaven was made the 2nd Day...
Assyrian:>>You may know that, I don't. There isn't any basis basis in scripture for that claim.
Dear Assyrian, Here it is:
Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
These verses clearly state that the firmament, which God called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Correct?
Aman:>>and the other heavens were made the 3rd Day,
Assyrian:>>Again, there no mention of creating any heavens on the third day.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
Notice that this verse takes us BACK to the events of the THIRD Day, the same Day the EARTH was made. Genesis 1:9-10 tells us the first EARTH was made the 3rd Day.
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth,
Genesis 1:12 tells us the plants GREW on the 3rd Day.
The verses are saying that on the 3rd Day the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW, the LORD made man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
If you don't agree, then tell us what he verses are telling YOU.
Aman:>>and we know that Scripture speaks of 3 heavens.
Assyrian:>>Or at least a third heaven. The numbering may simply be symbolic. But lets assume it means there are (at least) three heavens.
Amen.
Aman:>>The first is different from the others because it is surrounded by water.
Assuming the heaven made on day two is the first heaven. You haven't shown that.
Actually as far as I remember you haven't explained how the heavens are numbered. Are they numbered spatially by how high each heaven is? Are they numbered chronologically in order of their creation? Or is it a completely different numbering system?
The first heaven was made first, on the 2nd Day. It was totally destroyed in the Flood. The second heaven is our Cosmos with it's Billions upon Billions of Stars. It was made the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:4) and it is scheduled to be burned. The Third Heaven or the New Heaven and New Earth of Revelation 21:1 is the heaven with streets of Gold and Gates of Pearl. It was made at the same time our world was made.
God knows how to make as many heavens or Universes as He wants. All you have to do is create a singularity which becomes a Big Bang and you can scatter as many worlds as you wish, into the boundary of a Heaven. Of course, it takes unlimited amounts of time to accomplish this. God has as much time as needed.
Aman:>>The third is the world to come, the perfect world of God.
Assyrian:>>The world? To come? I thought Paul already went there.
He did, which is Why I post that the 3rd Heaven was also made on the 3rd Day. I do not limit God to how many singularities He can cause nor how many worlds will come from the process which God put into motion Billions of years ago. How many more Giant Stars have yet to implode and create other worlds?
Aman:>>Which one is missing? Why, it's our world, the 2nd heaven, which is not mentioned specifically, but is easy to discern. All you have to do is look out the window.
Assyrian:>>I look out a window and I can see the earth, along with a number of different things that could be described as the heavens, clouds, the sky, the sun moon and stars out in space. What basis do you have to label everything as the 2nd heaven?
The first heaven had a firmament or boundary, which kept it apart from our heaven and the third heaven. The boundary of our Universe seems endless but also has a boundary which separates us from the third heaven. Just as you cannot look out your window and see the world of Adam, neither can you see the world of God. You see the present 2nd Heaven which is scheduled to be burned. It won't affect the third heaven when our present second heaven is burned.
Aman:>>Your premise in incorrect. I just laid out the scriptural basis for the different heavens, Scripturally.
Assyrian:>>No you arbitrarily attached numbers to different heavens mentioned in scripture, and to some heavens you made up yourself.
Aman:>>By the context of the verses. It is the beginning of the creation and God makes the heaven (air), earth (ground) and water. But the ground was without form and empty, and death was upon everything God had made apart from Himself. That is WHY the word "earth" is used in Genesis 1:1 and the word "Earth" is used in Genesis 1:10.
Assyrian:>>It is the same word in Hebrew. If you want to go by the capitalisation thrown in by the AV translators, your 'first' heaven on day two is capitalised Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. But your 'second and third' heavens in are lower case Gen 2:4 in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
I don't follow the paraphrased views of the AV translators. I'm strickly a KJV, with Strong's Concordance, to allow me my own views and not those of the KJV translators. IOW, I get as close to the original meaning as possible. Then I measure that Truth with the Truth of Science and History. When I find a match, I know I have found God's Truth, which can only be understood by His children.
Assyrian:>>You still haven't addressed my question why when Genesis uses the word heavens in Genesis 1:1 they don't count among your three heavens.
You're the one adding the S to the Hebrew word shamayim. I don't suppose you would like to defend that action. If so, then present your evidence. I don't think you can.
Aman:>>The old idea that everything is made of air, dust, and water, and those things which have life, also have fire, which completes the necessary ingredients to make EVERYthing which exists physically. Correct? With these physical ingredients Jesus will be able to produce a Singularity, in order to make our world. Correct?
Assyrian:>>That was a Greek philosophical idea, not Hebrew one. If it was a Hebrew one you might argue that the writer was describing creation in those terms, not that Jesus had to made the world that way. Though it seems unlikely the writer of Genesis 1 was describing the creation in terms of the elements dust, air and water since Genesis 1 doesn't even mention air or dust,
It does in the Hebrew. Heaven/sky/air/atmosphere are the same. Earth/ground/land/soil are the same. Water is a mixture of the gases in the heaven/air and was not created separately. It's one of the PROOFS that only God could have possibly written Genesis.
Aman:>>Go back and look for the Day the Earth was made. It was the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10
On that 3rd Day, the LORD made the plants to grow, but BEFORE that happens, the LORD makes man of the dust of the ground and breathes into his nostrils the breath of life, and man becomes a living soul. That is what Genesis 2:4-7 is telling us.
Assyrian:>>No. Genesis 2:4 says in the day God created the heavens and the earth. If you want to identify a period in Genesis 1 with that, you need to find a time that fits both descriptions, a day when God created both heavens and the earth. That is not day 3.
Sure it is. The verse you cite is speaking of the 3rd Day, the SAME day the first Earth was made, the SAME day the other HeavenS were made, and the SAME day man was made from the dust of the ground.
Aman:>>Sure it does. Occam's razor. God's Truth is the complete Truth and the most simple. Genesis 1 is the complete History of the first 6 Days, which are ongoing. Genesis 2:1-3 tells us of a Future time on the Age of Joy, the 7th Day, the Great Sabbath, when God rests from ALL of His work of creating. Genesis 2:2-3
Assyrian:>>I wouldn't use Occam's razor as an argument if I were you. 'Simple' in terms of Occam's razor means you don't have to make up lots of things for your idea to work. It says the more things you have to make up for it to work, the less likely your idea is to be true. Because I have never come across an interpretation of Genesis that makes up more stuff than yours.
Aman:>>I haven't seen anything from you. When are you going to tell us how your interpretation is better than mine? It's easy to set back and shoot down views but much harder to actually post something positive. Please try to do better.
Assyrian:>>I think Genesis 1&2 are both figurative pictures of God's work of creation. Because they are not meant literally, there is no reason to try to fit the two stories together, and as we have seen they don't fit.
Dear Readers, I offer my comments: Figurative means I get to make up my own reasons to explain this. Not literally means I don't believe God's Holy Word literally. TWO stories shows the contradiction which can only be explained by claiming that God's Bible was written by a bunch of ancient goat herders. IOW, Don't believe anything I have to say.
Assyrian:>>I see Genesis 2 as a parable, an expansion the potter metaphor we see so often in scripture, where God makes each one of us from clay, or when it says that nation of Israel is clay in the potters hand.
I see. Jesus is just lying since He tells us Adam was made the 3rd Day. You seem to know better, but you find it IMPOSSIBLE to support your view that man was formed of the dust on the 6th Day. No wonder I can get nothing but negative views from you.
Assyrian:>>Genesis 1 is a poetic expansion of the metaphor Moses uses to teach Sabbath Observance, the anthropomorphic metaphor of God as a workman making the world in six days, then resting on the seventh day and being refreshed. Not only is God identifying himself with workers labouring out in the field, who too are refreshed by a Sabbath rest (Moses use the same language to describe both). But the idea of God being refreshed after a day's rest is not one we can take literally. Almighty God was not tired or worn out by the work of creation. But the metaphor goes deeper than that. It is more than a lesson teaching Sabbath observance. The Sabbath itself is a picture of the gospel and the rest we enter into through faith in Christ, of the eternity and all we have in eternity in Christ. Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Figuratively, Not literally, poetic, metaphore, etc. are the words you use to dodge the issue. I am glad to see that you know that our rest is yet to come. The 7th Day is yet future. Notice I'm not using these words in any metaphoric, poetic, or figuratively language. I'm speaking straight at you. God's Truth MUST agree with every other discovered Truth or we have not found God's Truth.
In Love,
Aman
Assyrian:>>I think Genesis 1&2 are both figurative pictures of God's work of creation. Because they are not meant literally, there is no reason to try to fit the two stories together, and as we have seen they don't fit.
Dear Readers, I offer my comments: Figurative means I get to make up my own reasons to explain this. Not literally means I don't believe God's Holy Word literally. TWO stories shows the contradiction which can only be explained by claiming that God's Bible was written by a bunch of ancient goat herders. IOW, Don't believe anything I have to say.
Assyrian:>>I see Genesis 2 as a parable, an expansion the potter metaphor we see so often in scripture, where God makes each one of us from clay, or when it says that nation of Israel is clay in the potters hand.
I see. Jesus is just lying since He tells us Adam was made the 3rd Day. You seem to know better, but you find it IMPOSSIBLE to support your view that man was formed of the dust on the 6th Day. No wonder I can get nothing but negative views from you.
Assyrian:>>Genesis 1 is a poetic expansion of the metaphor Moses uses to teach Sabbath Observance, the anthropomorphic metaphor of God as a workman making the world in six days, then resting on the seventh day and being refreshed. Not only is God identifying himself with workers labouring out in the field, who too are refreshed by a Sabbath rest (Moses use the same language to describe both). But the idea of God being refreshed after a day's rest is not one we can take literally. Almighty God was not tired or worn out by the work of creation. But the metaphor goes deeper than that. It is more than a lesson teaching Sabbath observance. The Sabbath itself is a picture of the gospel and the rest we enter into through faith in Christ, of the eternity and all we have in eternity in Christ. Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Figuratively, Not literally, poetic, metaphore, etc. are the words you use to dodge the issue. I am glad to see that you know that our rest is yet to come. The 7th Day is yet future. Notice I'm not using these words in any metaphoric, poetic, or figuratively language. I'm speaking straight at you. God's Truth MUST agree with every other discovered Truth or we have not found God's Truth.
In Love,
Aman
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Assyrian:>>You are giving the reason there were no plants in Gen 1:10, "they hadn't been created yet". But you still haven't addressed the rest of my question. Is this the reason given in Gen 2:5 for there not being any plants? Does the reason there were no plants in Gen 2:5 fit the reason there were no plants in Gen 1:10?
Dear Assyrian, Of course it does. It was on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made, but BEFORE the plants grew, and before the rain, that the LORD God made man of the dust of the ground....
Notice there were NO plants, it was BEFORE the plants were made. Genesis 1:12 and Genesis 2:8 both agree that the plants were made AFTER man was made. It's the ONLY way it could be.
In Love,
Aman
Dear Assyrian, Of course it does. It was on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made, but BEFORE the plants grew, and before the rain, that the LORD God made man of the dust of the ground....
Notice there were NO plants, it was BEFORE the plants were made. Genesis 1:12 and Genesis 2:8 both agree that the plants were made AFTER man was made. It's the ONLY way it could be.
In Love,
Aman
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Assyrian:>>What ever the "and also after that' mean, it is not describing the origin of our human intelligence, they are not the Israelites, they were the enemies of the Israelites, of Joshua, Caleb and of David.
Dear Assyrian, I don't think Noah's grandsons thought of themselves as Israelites. They were more like Turkeyites.
In Love,
Aman
Dear Assyrian, I don't think Noah's grandsons thought of themselves as Israelites. They were more like Turkeyites.
In Love,
Aman
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SayaOtonashi
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Also in the world is only 6,000 this what the bible said is wrong one god said a thousand generations to keep his commands. (Deuteronomy 7:9, 1 Chronicles 16:15, Psalm 105:8) . He later go out to state he been angry for 40 years in Psalm. For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, "They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways." So I declared on oath in my anger, "They shall never enter my rest." (Psalm 95:10-11 NIV) 1000x40.
prove me wrong if the god himself state 1,000 generations shall keep my command and late going on to said 40 years his been mad this means 40x 1000 which means 40,00
prove me wrong if the god himself state 1,000 generations shall keep my command and late going on to said 40 years his been mad this means 40x 1000 which means 40,00
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
OK...
How does it take you back to the third day, when that only describes creating the earth, not the heavens and the earth.
It is part of a different creation story I wouldn't even try to link them together. If I had to, I would point you back to Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. The 'day ' God created the heavens and the earth does not refer to a particular 24 hour day (which I know you agree with) nor does it fit any of the six days in Genesis 1. Day one is out, it say God created the heavens and the earth but the watery chaos we read in Gen 1:2 is too different form what we read of in Genesis 2. The rest of the 6 days in Genesis are spent creating and filling either the earth, the seas, of the heavens. On no day other than day one did God create the heavens and the earth. That leaves one other possibility, that day refer to an extended period as you believe for the days of Genesis 1, but it was a much longer period covering all six day of creation described in Genesis 1.
Sorry it doesn't say that. It doesn't say the heavens made on day two are the first heavens. Remember Gen 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Nor does it say the numbering system for Paul's 'third heaven' is based on the order of their creation.
The bible doesn't say that. Remember I showed you the firmament still existed when David wrote Psalm 19?
The bible doesn't say any heavens were made on the third day and it doesn't the heavens with billions of stars is the second heaven. Listen I have told you all this before, again and again. Do you have any actual scriptural evidence about the numbers of the heavens, if not please so so rather than simply repeating the same claims over and over.
Any evidence linking Paul's third heaven with the new heaven and new earth in Revelation, or that it is the new heaven and new earth as opposed to just the new heaven. Any evidence the third heaven was made the same time our world was made?
Don't you see the vast amount of stuff you simply make up?
Ok, but I don't see how it help you claims about the numbers for each heaven.
Ok I get what you mean by 'to come', but why do you call worlds heavens?
I thought the firmament was called heaven? And where do you get the idea that our universe has a boundary or that the boundary is a firmament?
Does Strong's say Heaven in Gen 1:8 and Earth in Gen 1:10 should be capitalised? Does it say Heaven and earth in Gen 1:1 are different words to heaven and earth in the rest of the chapter? Does Strong's say that shamayim should be translated heaven in Genesis 1 and heavens in Genesis 2?
The Hebrew word shamayim is plural. It doesn't have a singular form, so whether you are talking about one of them or multiple, it is still shamayim. Heavens is the closer translation, but you need to think of it the way we say 'the heavens opened' to describe rain, or say that 'the skies are blue' without suggesting there were multiple celestial realms involved.
But you are missing my point about Genesis 1:1. It wasn't that the word heavens in Gen 1:1 is plural, but that it is the same word shamayim we see in the rest of Genesis, and yet you don't count it among your three heavens.
Correct that it is an old idea, not that is a correct idea.
Quarks would be better, of as God he could simply speak it into existence.
It shows that you can squash any text into your eclectic mix of bits of science and bits of alchemy.
The third day in Genesis 1 doesn't include making the heavens or man. If you want to identify Gen 2:4 with Genesis 1 find a time when Genesis 1 says God created the heavens and the earth. Don't just make it up.
Dear Readers. What Aman forgets here is that God loves figurative language. Jesus himself spoke to us in metaphors parables and symbols. I don't think he was an ancient goat herder, he did say he was the Good Shepherd, but that was speaking figuratively.
Is it a problem if the literal reading of two metaphors contradict each other? One parable describes the last judgement as fishermen sorting fish from a net. Another parable say it is separating wheat from tares. Which is it, a fishing net or a wheat harvest? Jesus said he was the Good Shepherd, John said he was the lamb of God, which is right, is Jesus a shepherd or a sheep? It isn't that they contradict each other, the seeming contradiction comes from reading them the wrong way.
When did Jesus say Adam was made on the 3rd day?
You asked me how I interpret it, I answered you. How is that dodging the issue?
You think the day are billions of years long, that is not interpreting the days literally.
That means all the science you reject shows you haven't found God truth.
If it's the ONLY way it could be, why can't you answer the question?
But you think the Israelites were descended from your 'intellectual' giants who were 'and also after that'. I've show you they weren't.Dear Assyrian, I don't think Noah's grandsons thought of themselves as Israelites. They were more like Turkeyites.
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Originally Posted by Aman777
It takes you back to the OUTLINE of the Creation which is contained in Genesis 1. ALL of the Bible points back to these Days since God only has 7 Days. There are other good examples of this. Genesis 5:1-2 confirms the details of the Day Adam and Eve were born Spiritually. The words used are saying the SAME thing we read in the Outline of the Creation, and showing us it was on the 6th Day. Genesis 1:27
Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemane, speaks of the FIRST Day, confirming that He is the Light of the first Day.
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
The only Day "before the world was" was the 1st Day. Jesus is the Light of the first Day and will also be the Light of the 3rd Heaven. Revelation 21:23 KJV - And the city had no need of the sun, - Bible Gateway
Sorry, but you can't point me BACK since the events of Genesis 2:1 since they are PROPHECY of future events. Here is my understanding of Genesis 2:1
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Finished is the Hebrew word for Brought to Perfecion which is the result of any act which God completes. If it's not Perfect, then God is still working. He will NOT rest until His Creation is made perfect AND all the host of the heavens and earth are also Brought to Pefection. He wouldn't be God if He did.
God, the Holy Spirit and the Church continue to work today, showing that God has NOT yet rested. God's rest is Future.
Assyrian:>>The 'day ' God created the heavens and the earth does not refer to a particular 24 hour day (which I know you agree with) nor does it fit any of the six days in Genesis 1.
Sure it does, since it's a FUTURE event. You are confused, as is the traditional religous view, for Today remains the 6th Creative Day. Genesis 2:1 will NOT take place for at least another thousand years.
Assyrian:>>Day one is out, it say God created the heavens and the earth but the watery chaos we read in Gen 1:2 is too different form what we read of in Genesis 2.
What watery Chaos? Again, you are following the views of ancient men. Genesis 1:2 tells us:
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The ground had not shape, and it was empty, and darkness or death was upon the face of the deep. The ingredients to build a perfect Heaven are contaminated with death, and it moved the Spirit of God to speak, Let there be Light, and Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God, to defeat the darkness and death which made it impossible for God to have a perfect physical heaven filled with His perfect children. Isn't that the way you see it?
Assyrian:>>The rest of the 6 days in Genesis are spent creating and filling either the earth, the seas, of the heavens. On no day other than day one did God create the heavens and the earth.
Sure there is and I have shown it to you several times. It's the 3rd Day when Jesus makes the first Earth and the other HeavenS Plural. Genesis 2:4
Assyrian:>>That leaves one other possibility, that day refer to an extended period as you believe for the days of Genesis 1, but it was a much longer period covering all six day of creation described in Genesis 1.
Each of God's Days are some 4.5 Billion years in length. God's Days are best understood as Ages and today is the 6th Creative Day. That is the message of God's 7 Day Creation. We live today at Genesis 1:27 for God is STILL creating sinners in Christ. We will remain on the present 6th Creative Day, until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet, gives us dominion over EVERY other living creature, and changes EVERY creature into a Vegetarian, and then says, It is very good. Genesis 1:31
In Love,
Aman
Dear Assyrian, Here it is:
Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
These verses clearly state that the firmament, which God called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Correct?
Assyrian:>>OK...Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
These verses clearly state that the firmament, which God called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Correct?
Aman:>>4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
Notice that this verse takes us BACK to the events of the THIRD Day, the same Day the EARTH was made. Genesis 1:9-10 tells us the first EARTH was made the 3rd Day.
Gen. 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth,
Genesis 1:12 tells us the plants GREW on the 3rd Day.
The verses are saying that on the 3rd Day the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW, the LORD made man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
Assyrian:>>How does it take you back to the third day, when that only describes creating the earth, not the heavens and the earth.Notice that this verse takes us BACK to the events of the THIRD Day, the same Day the EARTH was made. Genesis 1:9-10 tells us the first EARTH was made the 3rd Day.
Gen. 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth,
Genesis 1:12 tells us the plants GREW on the 3rd Day.
The verses are saying that on the 3rd Day the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW, the LORD made man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul.
It takes you back to the OUTLINE of the Creation which is contained in Genesis 1. ALL of the Bible points back to these Days since God only has 7 Days. There are other good examples of this. Genesis 5:1-2 confirms the details of the Day Adam and Eve were born Spiritually. The words used are saying the SAME thing we read in the Outline of the Creation, and showing us it was on the 6th Day. Genesis 1:27
Jesus, in the Garden of Gethsemane, speaks of the FIRST Day, confirming that He is the Light of the first Day.
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
The only Day "before the world was" was the 1st Day. Jesus is the Light of the first Day and will also be the Light of the 3rd Heaven. Revelation 21:23 KJV - And the city had no need of the sun, - Bible Gateway
Aman:>>If you don't agree, then tell us what he verses are telling YOU.
Assyrian:>>It is part of a different creation story I wouldn't even try to link them together. If I had to, I would point you back to Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Sorry, but you can't point me BACK since the events of Genesis 2:1 since they are PROPHECY of future events. Here is my understanding of Genesis 2:1
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Finished is the Hebrew word for Brought to Perfecion which is the result of any act which God completes. If it's not Perfect, then God is still working. He will NOT rest until His Creation is made perfect AND all the host of the heavens and earth are also Brought to Pefection. He wouldn't be God if He did.
God, the Holy Spirit and the Church continue to work today, showing that God has NOT yet rested. God's rest is Future.
Assyrian:>>The 'day ' God created the heavens and the earth does not refer to a particular 24 hour day (which I know you agree with) nor does it fit any of the six days in Genesis 1.
Sure it does, since it's a FUTURE event. You are confused, as is the traditional religous view, for Today remains the 6th Creative Day. Genesis 2:1 will NOT take place for at least another thousand years.
Assyrian:>>Day one is out, it say God created the heavens and the earth but the watery chaos we read in Gen 1:2 is too different form what we read of in Genesis 2.
What watery Chaos? Again, you are following the views of ancient men. Genesis 1:2 tells us:
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The ground had not shape, and it was empty, and darkness or death was upon the face of the deep. The ingredients to build a perfect Heaven are contaminated with death, and it moved the Spirit of God to speak, Let there be Light, and Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God, to defeat the darkness and death which made it impossible for God to have a perfect physical heaven filled with His perfect children. Isn't that the way you see it?
Assyrian:>>The rest of the 6 days in Genesis are spent creating and filling either the earth, the seas, of the heavens. On no day other than day one did God create the heavens and the earth.
Sure there is and I have shown it to you several times. It's the 3rd Day when Jesus makes the first Earth and the other HeavenS Plural. Genesis 2:4
Assyrian:>>That leaves one other possibility, that day refer to an extended period as you believe for the days of Genesis 1, but it was a much longer period covering all six day of creation described in Genesis 1.
Each of God's Days are some 4.5 Billion years in length. God's Days are best understood as Ages and today is the 6th Creative Day. That is the message of God's 7 Day Creation. We live today at Genesis 1:27 for God is STILL creating sinners in Christ. We will remain on the present 6th Creative Day, until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet, gives us dominion over EVERY other living creature, and changes EVERY creature into a Vegetarian, and then says, It is very good. Genesis 1:31
In Love,
Aman
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Aman:>>The first heaven was made first, on the 2nd Day.
Assyrian:>>Sorry it doesn't say that. It doesn't say the heavens made on day two are the first heavens. Remember Gen 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Nor does it say the numbering system for Paul's 'third heaven' is based on the order of their creation.
Dear Assyrian, I'm sorry you don't realize that Scripture is showing what happens when He creates anything physical apart from Himself. It contains darkness or death. This of course, brings the reason for God to say, Let there be Light, and for Jesus to come forth into the physical world. Try to make sense of what Scripture is teaching from YOUR view.
Aman:>>It was totally destroyed in the Flood.
Assyrian:>>The bible doesn't say that. Remember I showed you the firmament still existed when David wrote Psalm 19?
The firmament did show or does show the handiwork of Jesus as David wrote. That doesn't change the fact that Isaiah tells us it was clean dissolved in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19
Aman:>>The second heaven is our Cosmos with it's Billions upon Billions of Stars. It was made the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:4) and it is scheduled to be burned.
Assyrian:>>The bible doesn't say any heavens were made on the third day and it doesn't the heavens with billions of stars is the second heaven. Listen I have told you all this before, again and again. Do you have any actual scriptural evidence about the numbers of the heavens, if not please so so rather than simply repeating the same claims over and over.
Correction: YOU can't see the fact that Genesis 2:4 tells us God made other heavens on the 3rd Day, in addition to the first heaven He made on the 2nd Day. You continue to ignore this Scriptural fact.
Aman:>>The Third Heaven or the New Heaven and New Earth of Revelation 21:1 is the heaven with streets of Gold and Gates of Pearl. It was made at the same time our world was made.
Assyrian:>Any evidence linking Paul's third heaven with the new heaven and new earth in Revelation, or that it is the new heaven and new earth as opposed to just the new heaven. Any evidence the third heaven was made the same time our world was made?
Genesis 2:4 says other "heavens" were made on the 3rd Day. It makes sense to me since creating a world with many Universes is what Physics is trying to confirm today. God tells us we live in a Multiverse. Why not make a world which produces many, many, Singularities, in order to make many, many, other worlds?
Assyrian:>>Don't you see the vast amount of stuff you simply make up?
Only to those who are stuck in their religion instead of what Scripture actually says.
Aman:>>God knows how to make as many heavens or Universes as He wants. All you have to do is create a singularity which becomes a Big Bang and you can scatter as many worlds as you wish, into the boundary of a Heaven. Of course, it takes unlimited amounts of time to accomplish this. God has as much time as needed.
Assyrian:>>Ok, but I don't see how it help you claims about the numbers for each heaven.
I only speak of 3 heavens since that is the minimum number made by the 3rd Day. I don't want to exaggerate.
Aman:>>He did, which is Why I post that the 3rd Heaven was also made on the 3rd Day. I do not limit God to how many singularities He can cause nor how many worlds will come from the process which God put into motion Billions of years ago. How many more Giant Stars have yet to implode and create other worlds?
Assyrian:>>Ok I get what you mean by 'to come', but why do you call worlds heavens?
God called the boundary or firmament of the first world "heaven". That's why I use the word.
Aman:>>The first heaven had a firmament or boundary, which kept it apart from our heaven and the third heaven. The boundary of our Universe seems endless but also has a boundary which separates us from the third heaven. Just as you cannot look out your window and see the world of Adam, neither can you see the world of God. You see the present 2nd Heaven which is scheduled to be burned. It won't affect the third heaven when our present second heaven is burned.
Assyrian:>>I thought the firmament was called heaven? And where do you get the idea that our universe has a boundary or that the boundary is a firmament?
I use the words as the same since the firmament was the boundary of the first heaven. That makes me believe there is a boundary to our world. The other reason is that Jesus is Brighter than the Noonday Sun, and yet we don't see Him, indicating there is a boundary between our differing heavens.
Aman:>>I don't follow the paraphrased views of the AV translators. I'm strickly a KJV, with Strong's Concordance, to allow me my own views and not those of the KJV translators. IOW, I get as close to the original meaning as possible. Then I measure that Truth with the Truth of Science and History. When I find a match, I know I have found God's Truth, which can only be understood by His children.
Assyrian:>>Does Strong's say Heaven in Gen 1:8 and Earth in Gen 1:10 should be capitalised? Does it say Heaven and earth in Gen 1:1 are different words to heaven and earth in the rest of the chapter? Does Strong's say that shamayim should be translated heaven in Genesis 1 and heavens in Genesis 2?
No, but Strong's is a man made translation which is subject to error. I understand the small contradiction you see, but if that's the best you can do, my view stands. Thanks for your reply.
In Love,
Aman
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Assyrian:>>You still haven't addressed my question why when Genesis uses the word heavens in Genesis 1:1 they don't count among your three heavens.
Aman:>>You're the one adding the S to the Hebrew word shamayim. I don't suppose you would like to defend that action. If so, then present your evidence. I don't think you can.
But you are missing my point about Genesis 1:1. It wasn't that the word heavens in Gen 1:1 is plural, but that it is the same word shamayim we see in the rest of Genesis, and yet you don't count it among your three heavens.
Dear Assyrian, It's because the context of the two verses BEFORE the first Day, shows that God the Spirit brought into the physical world, air, dust, and water and they were dead in the darkness, until Jesus came into the physical world to bring Light and Life to the dead elements. I don't think you can have an Earth, which is withouf form, unless you have a pile of dirt. Jesus is the Potter who will mold the Clay.
Aman:>>The old idea that everything is made of air, dust, and water, and those things which have life, also have fire, which completes the necessary ingredients to make EVERYthing which exists physically. Correct?
Assyrian:>>Correct that it is an old idea, not that is a correct idea.
Then show us something which is physical without these elements.
Aman:>>With these physical ingredients Jesus will be able to produce a Singularity, in order to make our world. Correct?
Assyrian:>>Quarks would be better, of as God he could simply speak it into existence.
Aman:>>It does in the Hebrew. Heaven/sky/air/atmosphere are the same. Earth/ground/land/soil are the same. Water is a mixture of the gases in the heaven/air and was not created separately. It's one of the PROOFS that only God could have possibly written Genesis.
Assyrian:>>It shows that you can squash any text into your eclectic mix of bits of science and bits of alchemy.
Aman:>>Sure it is. The verse you cite is speaking of the 3rd Day, the SAME day the first Earth was made, the SAME day the other HeavenS were made, and the SAME day man was made from the dust of the ground.
Assyrian:>>The third day in Genesis 1 doesn't include making the heavens or man. If you want to identify Gen 2:4 with Genesis 1 find a time when Genesis 1 says God created the heavens and the earth. Don't just make it up.
I'm not making up anything. Genesis 2:4 is adding information to Genesis 1 as I have told you over and over. The entire Bible does this.
Aman:>>Dear Readers, I offer my comments: Figurative means I get to make up my own reasons to explain this. Not literally means I don't believe God's Holy Word literally. TWO stories shows the contradiction which can only be explained by claiming that God's Bible was written by a bunch of ancient goat herders. IOW, Don't believe anything I have to say.
Assyrain:>>Dear Readers. What Aman forgets here is that God loves figurative language. Jesus himself spoke to us in metaphors parables and symbols. I don't think he was an ancient goat herder, he did say he was the Good Shepherd, but that was speaking figuratively.
Is it a problem if the literal reading of two metaphors contradict each other? One parable describes the last judgement as fishermen sorting fish from a net. Another parable say it is separating wheat from tares. Which is it, a fishing net or a wheat harvest? Jesus said he was the Good Shepherd, John said he was the lamb of God, which is right, is Jesus a shepherd or a sheep? It isn't that they contradict each other, the seeming contradiction comes from reading them the wrong way.
Aman:>>I see. Jesus is just lying since He tells us Adam was made the 3rd Day. You seem to know better, but you find it IMPOSSIBLE to support your view that man was formed of the dust on the 6th Day. No wonder I can get nothing but negative views from you.
Assyrian:>>When did Jesus say Adam was made on the 3rd day?
The first man, we later come to know as Adam, was made the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants grew, according to Genesis 2:4-7. Those who have not been born Spiritually see this a Foolishness. Christians, what do you think?
In Love,
Aman
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Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear Sky, Don't tell me but I'll bet he's a Young Earther. Did you know that I'm the youngest of the young earthers? Most young earthers think the world began some 6,000 years ago, but I believe, and can show Scripturally, that the first Day of Creation was less than 6 Days ago, in God's time.
In Love,
Aman
Those who have not been born Spiritually see this a Foolishness. Christians, what do you think?
Sky:>>That you don't know what you are saying. Granted, few do.
Dear Sky, Don't tell me but I'll bet he's a Young Earther. Did you know that I'm the youngest of the young earthers? Most young earthers think the world began some 6,000 years ago, but I believe, and can show Scripturally, that the first Day of Creation was less than 6 Days ago, in God's time.
In Love,
Aman
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quite a bit after actually. about 4 billion years after. we evolved into being. want more info, feel free to ask.
i know that you're going to have questions on this and i will answer them as best i can because i feel that you don't believe in evolution because you havn't understood it properly.
i know that you're going to have questions on this and i will answer them as best i can because i feel that you don't believe in evolution because you havn't understood it properly.
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Dear No answer, Evolution is the change in the allele frequency over time within a population. It happens everytime a baby is born. I call it Adaptation within kinds, but you're free to call it whatever you want.
Evolutionism is the false religion of man which supposes that long periods of time produced Human intelligence in Apes. As you can see, I'm a believer in evolution or changes within kinds, but NOT in the false Theory of the evolution of Human intelligence from mindless Nature.
If you would like to know more about How and when we became Human, just let me know. It's the Truth of Science, History, and Scripture.
In Love,
Aman
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ChristianT
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Aman777 said:
What are your beliefs about the One, Holy Orthodox, Apostolic Catholic Church?
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Aman:>>If you would like to know more about How and when we became Human, just let me know. It's the Truth of Science, History, and Scripture.
T:>>What are your beliefs about the One, Holy Orthodox, Apostolic Catholic Church?
Dear T, I think it's a puffed up, everything for show, denomination, like most others. Picture Christianity as a Big Pie. The Romans have slices therein. Jesus said:
Mark 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
In Love,
Aman
T:>>What are your beliefs about the One, Holy Orthodox, Apostolic Catholic Church?
Dear T, I think it's a puffed up, everything for show, denomination, like most others. Picture Christianity as a Big Pie. The Romans have slices therein. Jesus said:
Mark 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
In Love,
Aman
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